Lonnie talks power supply evolution!

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2020 0:51:59 GMT -5 creimes said:

Oct 23, 2020 23:07:12 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Thanks for chiming in.......

The reason Parasound is being contrasted is because I owned both. I've owned XPA Gen 3 amps in non and in DR series from Emotiva. Also I've owned Parasound. Seems like these two amps are often contrasted as people have a difficult time justifying the price difference: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/parasound-a23-vs-emotiva-xpa-dr2

First, I don't even know where I got that under 30 amps of output from. Going back through Emotiva's website I don't see the specs on amperage now. 

The Parasound, however, has the spec clearly stated as 60 amps per channel: parasound.com/a31.php

While I realize it's not just about the amp when listening downstream of the speakers but just as important are speakers that may "tell the tale" or *bleep* and moan bout the components upstream. From what I glean some don't, Radio shack Technique speakers will sound like crap no matter what's upstream.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in arguing with others as to which is better because I'm already convinced the Parasound fidelity was night and day better in contrast etc. I was mainly interested in an explanation of why 30 amps output compared to 180 amps? But now, I can't find the source that I remembered. Perhaps it's not in Emotiva's best interest to publish such spec?

Parasound's power supply for both the JC1 A21 and A31:



To be fair, it might not even be apples to apples. I mean the Emotiva DR3 costs round 2000 while the Parasound Halo A31 round 3200. 

While I enjoyed Lonnie's video I was just curious as to my above question regarding power output. He made a claim and the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. 

I'm curious what the difference is between a Emotiva DR-1 and Parasound A31, myself I cannot afford either of those amps but it's only a $1200 difference between them new doesn't seem crazy, I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound. I have seen a lot of hatred towards Emotiva gear on many different forums from individuals who obviously have more expensive gear, I actually responded to a thread one time where a guy had a budget so I recommended an Emotiva amp as it fit his price range on what he had to spend and I almost got blasted out of the virtual room from people that also suggested amps like 3 times his budget haha, like really ? it made no sense.

Would something like the Gen 1 or 2 XPA-1 amps be better suited towards the Tekton's you have ? I know they are pure class a/b, I hear many talk about how they preferred the previous gen's to the new Gen 3 stuff, either way if the Parasound is what works for you than that's awesome, but I will say you haven't tried those $185,000 monblocks yet so you don't know what you are missing hahahahaha. I guess perhaps maybe electronics differ but I have heard very expensive speakers and was never wowed more than what I had owned at the time so I don't always believ in more money equals more better, it can and it can't.

One thing I have always found interesting is yes recording studios will use a higher quality XLR cable for example, but I see these ads for 1m XLR cables costing more than my entire system and I think they didn't need those to record the music so why would one need it to playback the music, but I guess if one owns $200,000 amps and $150,000 speakers than they need $20,000 cables to justify it haha, Monoprice cables just won't do

Chad

To add insult to injury ya can purchase a Parasound Halo A31 brand new w/ full warranty online at times for 2400.00 as I did. I lost more in depreciation when returning the DR-3 back to Emotiva a month or so outside the return policy if I had purchased the Parasound to begin w/. The Parasound A31 is class A/AB, it operates class A up to round seven watts then begins to transition to AB. I had not bothered to look for "used" or no longer produced equipment regarding past Emotiva models as I do care bout the state of warranty items. I'm financing equipment and don't want it becoming unusable during the duration of payoff. 

I realize I haven't heard or contrasted w/ 185 thousand dollar monoblocks. My contention is about the type of power supply an amp is using. For example, I'm curious, your hypothetical example of a 185 grand amp uses what type of power supply? In the video it seems that Lonnie makes the attempt to convey, at least, the equality of newer power supplies used by Emotiva. All I am asking is for a little more clarification. I mean, in debate the person making the assertion or claim, well, the burden of proof is laid on their shoulders. That is, not passing the burden of proof on others to either prove or disprove such claims. 

As for cables I have no opinion other than cables which are capable of passing said "current" cleanly are more than capable on this side of proper shielding etc. Speaking of current, did I mention the Parasound's output of 180 amps? The JC monoblocks use the exact same power supply as the A21 and A31 designed by John Curl. 

Lastly, in the previous post I was addressing a statement made that the person's speakers were hard to drive. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. My Ulfberhts dip to a 2.3 ohm load and I thought that was relevant information regarding fidelity. 

At times I ponder whether I should just keep my mouth shut and not satisfy my curiosity. I feel like I need be more like Kyle from South Park and say, "don't know don't care". However, I hope that we'll all grow together on our journey, even Emotiva. 

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate Emotiva supplying this very forums. Tis the best I've come across to date. I even love the moderation!

Have a wonderful night Chad. 

[novisnick]

I’ve been loosely following this thread and I personally don’t have a serious preference about amp power and design. I’m continually learning and I’ve found enjoyment in every form of audio gear. I’ve found music that fits with SS, tubes vinyl and digital. You name it, I either own it or have tried it and have always been able to find the better parts of each component. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve found plenty that I didn’t care for but I’ve always learned something from the experience.
Lets all continue to enjoy this journey. 😁

[creimes]

Oct 24, 2020 1:02:18 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Oct 24, 2020 0:51:59 GMT -5 creimes said:

I'm curious what the difference is between a Emotiva DR-1 and Parasound A31, myself I cannot afford either of those amps but it's only a $1200 difference between them new doesn't seem crazy, I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound. I have seen a lot of hatred towards Emotiva gear on many different forums from individuals who obviously have more expensive gear, I actually responded to a thread one time where a guy had a budget so I recommended an Emotiva amp as it fit his price range on what he had to spend and I almost got blasted out of the virtual room from people that also suggested amps like 3 times his budget haha, like really ? it made no sense.

Would something like the Gen 1 or 2 XPA-1 amps be better suited towards the Tekton's you have ? I know they are pure class a/b, I hear many talk about how they preferred the previous gen's to the new Gen 3 stuff, either way if the Parasound is what works for you than that's awesome, but I will say you haven't tried those $185,000 monblocks yet so you don't know what you are missing hahahahaha. I guess perhaps maybe electronics differ but I have heard very expensive speakers and was never wowed more than what I had owned at the time so I don't always believ in more money equals more better, it can and it can't.

One thing I have always found interesting is yes recording studios will use a higher quality XLR cable for example, but I see these ads for 1m XLR cables costing more than my entire system and I think they didn't need those to record the music so why would one need it to playback the music, but I guess if one owns $200,000 amps and $150,000 speakers than they need $20,000 cables to justify it haha, Monoprice cables just won't do

Chad

To add insult to injury ya can purchase a Parasound Halo A31 brand new w/ full warranty online at times for 2400.00 as I did. I lost more in depreciation when returning the DR-3 back to Emotiva a month or so outside the return policy if I had purchased the Parasound to begin w/. The Parasound A31 is class A/AB, it operates class A up to round seven watts then begins to transition to AB. I had not bothered to look for "used" or no longer produced equipment regarding past Emotiva models as I do care bout the state of warranty items. I'm financing equipment and don't want it becoming unusable during the duration of payoff. 

I realize I haven't heard or contrasted w/ 185 thousand dollar monoblocks. My contention is about the type of power supply an amp is using. For example, I'm curious, your hypothetical example of a 185 grand amp uses what type of power supply? In the video it seems that Lonnie makes the attempt to convey, at least, the equality of newer power supplies used by Emotiva. All I am asking is for a little more clarification. I mean, in debate the person making the assertion or claim, well, the burden of proof is laid on their shoulders. That is, not passing the burden of proof on others to either prove or disprove such claims. 

As for cables I have no opinion other than cables which are capable of passing said "current" cleanly are more than capable on this side of proper shielding etc. Speaking of current, did I mention the Parasound's output of 180 amps? The JC monoblocks use the exact same power supply as the A21 and A31 designed by John Curl. 

Lastly, in the previous post I was addressing a statement made that the person's speakers were hard to drive. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. My Ulfberhts dip to a 2.3 ohm load and I thought that was relevant information regarding fidelity. 

At times I ponder whether I should just keep my mouth shut and not satisfy my curiosity. I feel like I need be more like Kyle from South Park and say, "don't know don't care". However, I hope that we'll all grow together on our journey, even Emotiva. 

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate Emotiva supplying this very forums. Tis the best I've come across to date. I even love the moderation!

Have a wonderful night Chad. 

Hopefully you can see that high percentage of my post or posts are goofing around haha, there is always something better or something that costs more and I am totally serious in wondering if it does take a certain amount of R&D funds to design something better than the other guy, I know there are always going to be limitations if you have a cost in mind for a product you are designing and selling. One of my co-workers used to be a salesman and did well for an audio reseller and I've heard of the extreme markups there are in products such as audio when it comes to the company itself and the distributor and then the store selling it, everyone has to make there money and by the time we as consumers buy it it has been marked up 400%, I'm not saying those are exact numbers but I know it is a lot.

I do hear what you are saying about speakers that need more or better watts to sound good, I'm running low end Polk's right now as it's all I have laying around to use and honestly they sound not much different to my ears being powered from my main system to an older cheaper integrated amp, they just aren't resolving enough to care what is in front of them.

I bought a XPA-2 years back from a guy locally who used to be on the forum here, he had Wilson Sofia speakers and at that time was purchasing an XPR-2 and XPR-5 for his setup so his XPA amps were for sale, he informed me at that time he has $1000 power cables that he was using for the XPA amps which confused me as the XPA-2 did not cost that much but to each their own lol. He wa a big classical music guy so he seemed to have a lot invested in his system in certain aspects and not as much in other aspects.

I wish I was smarter and understood the tech behind all this stuff but that ain't my area of expertise lol

Take care,
Chad

[audiobill]

Creimes said "I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound."

I want to offer some clarification.

Over time, I've owned an XDA2, XSP1, XPA2, XPA1s, DC1, XPS1. and cables from Emotiva. I've also hand built over 100 tube amps and preamps so feel just a little familiar with what's inside this stuff.

Without exception, I've felt that the Emotiva components offered fine performance and superb value.

But, for me, there are other attributes like tradition, aesthetics, long-term reliability, build quality, resale value and overall pride of ownership that make the increased "investment" well worthwhile. And I've been very, very fortunate enough to be able to do so. I also understand that this equation may not work for everyone on their journey.

I also feel that @keithl, in particular, while very knowledgeable comes off as as a shill for Emotiva. Read his posts and opinions on Magneplanars, tubes, streaming, heavy transformers (!), multibit dacs, Sabre dacs, and anything else Emotiva doesn't offer and you'll see what I mean. All in the guise of enlightened technical expertise.  Personally, I've never completely trusted anyone that holds himself out as a "guru".

Also, for a Company that touts its "all out assault on the high end", it should be able to back up this claim in all aspects or stay on the porch.

This is a hobby, science and art all wrapped into one. So lots of opinions keep things lively.

Bill

[brutiarti]

I really like Lonnie and respect him as a chief designer. But IMO it seems that he needs to justify why Emotiva moved from LPS to SPS. To be honest I don’t really care what type of power supply an amplifier uses but it needs to sound better than what I currently have to make the upgrade. I tried several SPS based amps and so far I couldn’t find any I like.
The ideal for Emotiva would be to offer several presentations so their amps will sound “different” to each other instead of “better” so everybody will be happy.

[creimes]

Oct 24, 2020 5:19:08 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Creimes said "I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound."

I want to offer some clarification.

Over time, I've owned an XDA2, XSP1, XPA2, XPA1s, DC1, XPS1. and cables from Emotiva. I've also hand built over 100 tube amps and preamps so feel just a little familiar with what's inside this stuff.

Without exception, I've felt that the Emotiva components offered fine performance and superb value.

But, for me, there are other attributes like tradition, aesthetics, long-term reliability, build quality, resale value and overall pride of ownership that make the increased "investment" well worthwhile. And I've been very, very fortunate enough to be able to do so. I also understand that this equation may not work for everyone on their journey.

I also feel that @keithl, in particular, while very knowledgeable comes off as as a shill for Emotiva. Read his posts and opinions on Magneplanars, tubes, streaming, heavy transformers (!), multibit dacs, Sabre dacs, and anything else Emotiva doesn't offer and you'll see what I mean. All in the guise of enlightened technical expertise.  Personally, I've never completely trusted anyone that holds himself out as a "guru".

Also, for a Company that touts its "all out assault on the high end", it should be able to back up this claim in all aspects or stay on the porch.

This is a hobby, science and art all wrapped into one. So lots of opinions keep things lively.

Bill

First off I was being overly dramatic and it did get some attention lol, and I hear you about certain others here coming across shrill, but there's always negativity towards Emotiva in many of your posts, I'm not a koolaid drinker but it does get tiring hearing how one will never achieve the sound that one can that has larger bank account, again I don't care what one has or hasn't but it gets cumbersome to say the least. I'm a dummy when it comes to something like building or designing things like amps, so I don't have the knowledge to understand some of the tech talk.

If we enjoy what we have that is the whole point, but the elitist thing gets old fast, if you can't see how you come across that way at times than I'm sorry.

Chad

[mauriceminor]

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2020 2:51:34 GMT -5 creimes said:

Oct 24, 2020 1:02:18 GMT -5 @shimei said:

To add insult to injury ya can purchase a Parasound Halo A31 brand new w/ full warranty online at times for 2400.00 as I did. I lost more in depreciation when returning the DR-3 back to Emotiva a month or so outside the return policy if I had purchased the Parasound to begin w/. The Parasound A31 is class A/AB, it operates class A up to round seven watts then begins to transition to AB. I had not bothered to look for "used" or no longer produced equipment regarding past Emotiva models as I do care bout the state of warranty items. I'm financing equipment and don't want it becoming unusable during the duration of payoff. 

I realize I haven't heard or contrasted w/ 185 thousand dollar monoblocks. My contention is about the type of power supply an amp is using. For example, I'm curious, your hypothetical example of a 185 grand amp uses what type of power supply? In the video it seems that Lonnie makes the attempt to convey, at least, the equality of newer power supplies used by Emotiva. All I am asking is for a little more clarification. I mean, in debate the person making the assertion or claim, well, the burden of proof is laid on their shoulders. That is, not passing the burden of proof on others to either prove or disprove such claims. 

As for cables I have no opinion other than cables which are capable of passing said "current" cleanly are more than capable on this side of proper shielding etc. Speaking of current, did I mention the Parasound's output of 180 amps? The JC monoblocks use the exact same power supply as the A21 and A31 designed by John Curl. 

Lastly, in the previous post I was addressing a statement made that the person's speakers were hard to drive. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. My Ulfberhts dip to a 2.3 ohm load and I thought that was relevant information regarding fidelity. 

At times I ponder whether I should just keep my mouth shut and not satisfy my curiosity. I feel like I need be more like Kyle from South Park and say, "don't know don't care". However, I hope that we'll all grow together on our journey, even Emotiva. 

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate Emotiva supplying this very forums. Tis the best I've come across to date. I even love the moderation!

Have a wonderful night Chad. 

Hopefully you can see that high percentage of my post or posts are goofing around haha, there is always something better or something that costs more and I am totally serious in wondering if it does take a certain amount of R&D funds to design something better than the other guy, I know there are always going to be limitations if you have a cost in mind for a product you are designing and selling. One of my co-workers used to be a salesman and did well for an audio reseller and I've heard of the extreme markups there are in products such as audio when it comes to the company itself and the distributor and then the store selling it, everyone has to make there money and by the time we as consumers buy it it has been marked up 400%, I'm not saying those are exact numbers but I know it is a lot.

I do hear what you are saying about speakers that need more or better watts to sound good, I'm running low end Polk's right now as it's all I have laying around to use and honestly they sound not much different to my ears being powered from my main system to an older cheaper integrated amp, they just aren't resolving enough to care what is in front of them.

I bought a XPA-2 years back from a guy locally who used to be on the forum here, he had Wilson Sofia speakers and at that time was purchasing an XPR-2 and XPR-5 for his setup so his XPA amps were for sale, he informed me at that time he has $1000 power cables that he was using for the XPA amps which confused me as the XPA-2 did not cost that much but to each their own lol. He wa a big classical music guy so he seemed to have a lot invested in his system in certain aspects and not as much in other aspects.

I wish I was smarter and understood the tech behind all this stuff but that ain't my area of expertise lol

Take care,
Chad

As an employee working for a couple of stereo shops as an installer I enjoyed the perks of purchasing 35% below dealer cost. Employees could purchase direct from the manufacturer. While I never verified the story Robert Zeff of Zapco car audio amps is allegedly a nuclear physicist. I had the pleasure of speaking to him directly when purchasing one of his amps. Mr. Zeff at that time took apart my new amp and replaced various components in the power supply to produce more output for my competition vehicle. The amp from memory was rated at 150 watts x 2 but the amp would run down stable into 1/2 ohm producing over 600 watts rms per channel. Was enough to fire up and pound eight 12" subwoofers in a Corvette. Custom made the cabinet myself w/ help from Lanzar on port design. The port was a Z shape for both Zapco and LanZar which was painted into the finish surrounding the port. Just if curious, I was able to fit 8 12" subs in the space behind the driver and passenger of a Corvette by using an ISO-Bandpass enclosure having three chambers [both outside chambers were sealed where outside woofers were clamshelled together and the inward middle chamber was ported.  



Above image shows 3 ported chambers where my design was only single chamber ported with a Z cut out of the plexiglass center. Was really happy w/ Lanzar helping to calculate out the Z shapes dimensions figuring out the overall area. The insides were mirrored so they had that illusion of an infinite number of subwoofers. The dang port was only round 9 inches from the driver/passenger ear! 

Anyways, my point of bringing this up is a near 1400.00 dollar amp was purchased at employee discount for less than 300 bucks. And Robert Zeff himself modified the amp to strain out as much power for competition. I remember when done I sold that amp for a thousand. Tis, I guess why the manufacturers limit the amount of equipment employees could purchase for personal use. 

[DYohn]

Oct 24, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

I really like Lonnie and respect him as a chief designer. But IMO it seems that he needs to justify why Emotiva moved from LPS to SPS. To be honest I don’t really care what type of power supply an amplifier uses but it needs to sound better than what I currently have to make the upgrade. I tried several SPS based amps and so far I couldn’t find any I like.
The ideal for Emotiva would be to offer several presentations so their amps will sound “different” to each other instead of “better” so everybody will be happy.

Did you watch the video? Explaining why they made ther change is the entire topic.

[monkumonku]

Oct 23, 2020 18:56:47 GMT -5 routlaw said:

I own the DR-1's as well as the XPA-1's Gen 2. By any measure the DR-1s are dramatically quieter, not even close and to my ears they also perform better, or as most audiophiles like to state they sound better. I've also owned Krell amps, Arcam, InnerSound (made and designed by Coda, PS Audio, Adcom and others. While I've not made direct comparisons with all of these other products, I also do not feel I'm suffering some sort of audio loss or lack of performance by using Emotiva products either. If anything my system currently sounds better than it ever has and given my speakers which have a very low impedance and are difficult to drive makes for a potent statement.

I have no idea what's going on between the Parasound vs the Emotiva amps. It could be explained by a number of things not the least of which is an individuals preference for what they believe makes good sound at a particular time and place. And these things will change over time. I know mine have. Like any hobby most of us will develop and hone our listening skills over time and lets us not forget some people adore tubes, some SS, some love digital while others will only listen to vinyl. Musical taste vary as well as prediclicitions for what makes great sound. Few hobbies and industries if any have generated as much animosity as audiophilia-nervosa and there appears to be no signs of it ever abating. The endless snarky comments within this hobby based upon an individuals own superiority complexes of what ever gear they are currently tied into is quite frankly tiresome and solves nothing or makes for a meaningful discussion. Case in point, there are people on this forum whose outspoken opinions I almost never agree with based upon my own experiences and preferences.

It doesn't end there either, amazingly people will have extreme negative comments about gear they have never ever experienced directly, based upon what they assume is best. I for one appreciated Lonnies video, but would have preferred if he extrapolated on some of the disign and perhaps provided yet even more meaningful measurements.

Agree except for where you say "few hobbies and industries if any have generared as much animosity as audiophilia-nervosa..." I think anytime there are differences between X and Y and people can choose either, then you're going to wind up with all sorts of violent disagreements. It's human nature.

As for Emo's choice of power supplies, people keep questioning their choice and saying Emo needs to justify it (uh, I thought that is what Lonnie did in his excellent video). Fact is, they've made their choice and it will be justified or not, based on sales. Given all things in the audio chain being equal except for the type of power supply, I wonder how many could actually tell one from another in a blind test? And even if they could, some might prefer one while someone else would prefer the other.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2020 0:51:59 GMT -5 creimes said:

Oct 23, 2020 23:07:12 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Thanks for chiming in.......

The reason Parasound is being contrasted is because I owned both. I've owned XPA Gen 3 amps in non and in DR series from Emotiva. Also I've owned Parasound. Seems like these two amps are often contrasted as people have a difficult time justifying the price difference: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/parasound-a23-vs-emotiva-xpa-dr2

First, I don't even know where I got that under 30 amps of output from. Going back through Emotiva's website I don't see the specs on amperage now. 

The Parasound, however, has the spec clearly stated as 60 amps per channel: parasound.com/a31.php

While I realize it's not just about the amp when listening downstream of the speakers but just as important are speakers that may "tell the tale" or *bleep* and moan bout the components upstream. From what I glean some don't, Radio shack Technique speakers will sound like crap no matter what's upstream.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in arguing with others as to which is better because I'm already convinced the Parasound fidelity was night and day better in contrast etc. I was mainly interested in an explanation of why 30 amps output compared to 180 amps? But now, I can't find the source that I remembered. Perhaps it's not in Emotiva's best interest to publish such spec?

Parasound's power supply for both the JC1 A21 and A31:



To be fair, it might not even be apples to apples. I mean the Emotiva DR3 costs round 2000 while the Parasound Halo A31 round 3200. 

While I enjoyed Lonnie's video I was just curious as to my above question regarding power output. He made a claim and the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. 

I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff...

I chuckled at the allusion back to Genesis... . 

if you can't see how you come across that way at times than I'm sorry.

Tip, when you call down holy hell from above don't be apologetic afterwards 

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2020 5:19:08 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Also, for a Company that touts its "all out assault on the high end", it should be able to back up this claim in all aspects or stay on the porch.

This is a hobby, science and art all wrapped into one. So lots of opinions keep things lively.

Bill

That's exactly what I meant to convey. When I was having fidelity issues while running Emotiva gear w/ Tekton speakers I received advice here to get rid of the Tektons. 

Seems the Tektons are capable of glaringly pointing out any issues upstream component wise. 

I was beginning to exhibit buyer's remorse for the Tektons then I went off on a limb and went Parasound. 

Glad that resolved my issues. As was I didn't want to live w/ the then overall fidelity. 

[DYohn]

Oct 24, 2020 5:19:08 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Creimes said "I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound."

I want to offer some clarification.

Over time, I've owned an XDA2, XSP1, XPA2, XPA1s, DC1, XPS1. and cables from Emotiva. I've also hand built over 100 tube amps and preamps so feel just a little familiar with what's inside this stuff.

Without exception, I've felt that the Emotiva components offered fine performance and superb value.

But, for me, there are other attributes like tradition, aesthetics, long-term reliability, build quality, resale value and overall pride of ownership that make the increased "investment" well worthwhile. And I've been very, very fortunate enough to be able to do so. I also understand that this equation may not work for everyone on their journey.

I also feel that @keithl, in particular, while very knowledgeable comes off as as a shill for Emotiva. Read his posts and opinions on Magneplanars, tubes, streaming, heavy transformers (!), multibit dacs, Sabre dacs, and anything else Emotiva doesn't offer and you'll see what I mean. All in the guise of enlightened technical expertise.  Personally, I've never completely trusted anyone that holds himself out as a "guru".

Also, for a Company that touts its "all out assault on the high end", it should be able to back up this claim in all aspects or stay on the porch.

This is a hobby, science and art all wrapped into one. So lots of opinions keep things lively.

Bill

Well said, Bill.

[audiobill]

Thanks, David!

[brutiarti]

Oct 24, 2020 10:37:48 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Oct 24, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

I really like Lonnie and respect him as a chief designer. But IMO it seems that he needs to justify why Emotiva moved from LPS to SPS. To be honest I don’t really care what type of power supply an amplifier uses but it needs to sound better than what I currently have to make the upgrade. I tried several SPS based amps and so far I couldn’t find any I like.
The ideal for Emotiva would be to offer several presentations so their amps will sound “different” to each other instead of “better” so everybody will be happy.

Did you watch the video? Explaining why they made ther change is the entire topic.

I did and that’s why I feel that there is no enough substance regarding sound quality. Lonnie shows the noise ratio but I take that the same way that ASR does their reviews. In my case I’m moving away from Emo amps. The gen3 just didn’t sound right to my ears and trust me I tried their reference DR-1s so I’m not just saying without trying. I guess we are lucky to have a free market economy

[DYohn]

Oct 24, 2020 14:06:56 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

Oct 24, 2020 10:37:48 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Did you watch the video? Explaining why they made ther change is the entire topic.

I did and that’s why I feel that there is no enough substance regarding sound quality. Lonnie shows the noise ratio but I take that the same way that ASR does their reviews. In my case I’m moving away from Emo amps. The gen3 just didn’t sound right to my ears and trust me I tried their reference DR-1s so I’m not just saying without trying. I guess we are lucky to have a free market economy

Gotcha. "Sound quality" is a subjective thing and to each his own. All a designer can do is demonstrate the technical reasons for a decision and discuss how that might or might not impact the sound (in this case, lower noise floor in the audio band) and other criteria for the decision, such as higher efficiency and reduced weight (from this video.) No one can tell another person how it will sound to them. You have to listen to it for yourself.

[bonscott]

Oct 23, 2020 12:22:39 GMT -5 Hair Nick said:

Great Video. Inaudible Soundwaves mean nothing to me. I have an XPA 7 Gen 3. Sounds Great. Is it as good as anything else out there at the same retail.  Yes or No. That’s all that matters. You cannot compare other Amplifiers at much higher retails.  Some people that constantly complain that it should be built a different way are driving around in a Ford with a Piss On Chevy Bumpersticker

[mgbpuff]

Whatever, guys! I won’t buy an amp with a SMPS period. So I guess Emo is not an option for me anymore. Congratulations to Lonny for this transformation.

[Cogito]

For me, no big-ass transformer, no sale. Reliability and robustness prevail over efficiency and inaudible noise floors.

[Ex_Vintage]

This is a no win discussion. Why do you own audio equipment? Why do you care what is inside the box? Do you like the sound quality at the price you paid for it? I get the aspects of resale value and aesthetics, but those attributes don't effect the sound quality (unless you are guided by psycho-acoustic effects). Quality and reliability are both perceived and real. If a piece of equipment "looks good" one thinks that it has a higher quality, but that is not always true. If a piece of equipment fails, and many of the same model fail, then it is of poor quality. If you have a piece of equipment and it fails, your conclusion is that it is of poor quality, but even a $100K+ piece of equipment fails. No one has absolute quality. BTW - I have not read any posts on this forum that attribute a failure to an SMPS in Emotiva's equipment, certainly not any higher failure rate than a conventional linear power supply. Virtually all electronics today are powered by switch mode power supplies for the reasons Lonnie mentioned.