Lonnie talks power supply evolution!

[Hair Nick]

[Deleted]

There was a grin and smile behind Lonnie's expression when he lifted that huge power horse of a transformer probably think'n, "they're admiring my rippling biceps".

At first, certainly, most modern Millennials would object from a labor industry stand point of making Lonnie lift such heavy equipment as was back in the days.  

Kinda J/king, but most impressive nonetheless. Would of payed if Lonnie busted a bodybuilding pose.

Here I am thinking I was in great shape. But years of sitting in front of and "entertaining" new technology and not lifting heavy objects such as those big old mean nasty transformers has me now looking like a gurly man. 

The only evidence I have from back in the day when weighing in at 185 lbs and bench pressing 435 lbs is a picture poolside w/ my daughter:




Betcha Lonnie could curl me now. Not that I want to be spooned by an Emotiva guy. I might reconsider though if ya have the brute force and power of Parasound's Halo designer John Curl. 

Lonnie, if you're listening, go back to the old transformers my friend as you wont regret keeping up your impressive physique in that Emotiva shirt and health overall.  

Live long and prosper [Shalom],
William

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 13:28:21 GMT -5 audiobill said:

But what do they sound like

Coming from the McIntosh line........ I'm chuckling. 
When I inquired on purchasing some products from McIntosh I noted they did not provide shipping and the sales on amps were by retail store pickup only. 
I thought at the time I don't have a vehicle big enough to move a McIntosh amp lol. 

[audiobill]

Notice the Sovtek tube boxes in the background on the shelf; I guess to serve as a reference standard.....

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 13:34:55 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Notice the Sovtek tube boxes in the background on the shelf; I guess to serve as a reference standard.....

ROFL I thought the same thing!!! And also having the older Gen Emotivas to reference from as sound signature wise. 

[audiobill]

I notice no vertical scale shown on AP, I'll bet below audibility in either case. No audible benefit.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 13:42:39 GMT -5 audiobill said:

I notice no vertical scale shown on AP, I'll bet below audibility in either case. No audible benefit.

Love how the more experienced wiser guys react as such:

[Hair Nick]

Full AP capture screenshot.

First time using new video capture software on Joe Sr.'s AP computer. Need to adjust the capture window better in future videos.

Attachments:

[DYohn]

I trust Mr. Vaughn when it comes to amplifier design.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 15:08:40 GMT -5 Hair Nick said:

Full AP capture screenshot.

First time using new video capture software on Joe Sr.'s AP computer. Need to adjust the capture window better in future videos.

Please, if you have time entertain my lack of trust for others w/ fancy graphs and datasheets. Could you interpret that graph for me like a 4 yr old? I have no idea what those lines are meaning to convey. You or anyone that is. 

Don't mean to put anyone on the spot. I mean, I often hear things and people suggest "this is what you hear" and I'm like okay.

[novisnick]

Oct 23, 2020 15:47:14 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Oct 23, 2020 15:08:40 GMT -5 Hair Nick said:

Full AP capture screenshot.

First time using new video capture software on Joe Sr.'s AP computer. Need to adjust the capture window better in future videos.

Please, if you have time entertain my lack of trust for others w/ fancy graphs and datasheets. Could you interpret that graph for me like a 4 yr old? I have no idea what those lines are meaning to convey. You or anyone that is. 

Don't mean to put anyone on the spot. I mean, I often hear things and people suggest "this is what you here" and I'm like okay.

I was held back! 🥴 please explain

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 16:01:43 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Oct 23, 2020 15:47:14 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Please, if you have time entertain my lack of trust for others w/ fancy graphs and datasheets. Could you interpret that graph for me like a 4 yr old? I have no idea what those lines are meaning to convey. You or anyone that is. 

Don't mean to put anyone on the spot. I mean, I often hear things and people suggest "this is what you here" and I'm like okay.

I was held back! 🥴 please explain

My comment wasn't meant to put anyone on the spot. However, I find that the test of knowledge of the highly intellectual is often tested by how well they can bring the imbecile to their level and not vice versa. 

I'm willing to play the imbecile cause frankly the label fits as I haven't any idea what that graph means. 

[aliensoundtome]

All the graph shows is the noise floor. Notice the left side scale around -100 where the red and blue line start means they are mostly below -100 db except where the red line is above because it uses a big transformer. When the red line around 60 Hz goes above -100 db more noise more likely to hear it. Like hear a hum out of your speakers.

Hope that is clear enough Shimei

[audiobill]

-80db because it uses “a big transformer” or weak design?

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 16:24:53 GMT -5 audiobill said:

-80db because it uses “a big transformer” or weak design?

Findings are based on the questions we ask?

If so, I'm really curious as to why the Emotiva sounded harsh and "transistor like" espcially in the midbass region when contrasted to Parasound. My speakers dip to 2.3 ohms in that region. I mean I keep hearing of the theoretical necessary output achieved by other designs but the overall resulting satisfaction makes me question theory.

I see the XPA Gen 3 overall output is less than 30 amps compared to Parasound's 180 amp output. That is, when contrasting the XPA DR3 to the Halo A31. I'm told the Emotiva DR has plenty of theoretical output in response.

Makes me struggle to articulate a question in which I convey whether the character of sound can be measured?

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 16:17:42 GMT -5 aliensoundtome said:

All the graph shows is the noise floor. Notice the left side scale around -100 where the red and blue line start means they are mostly below -100 db except where the red line is above because it uses a big transformer. When the red line around 60 Hz goes above -100 db more noise more likely to hear it. Like hear a hum out of your speakers.

Hope that is clear enough Shimei

Thank you! 

[routlaw]

I own the DR-1's as well as the XPA-1's Gen 2. By any measure the DR-1s are dramatically quieter, not even close and to my ears they also perform better, or as most audiophiles like to state they sound better. I've also owned Krell amps, Arcam, InnerSound (made and designed by Coda, PS Audio, Adcom and others. While I've not made direct comparisons with all of these other products, I also do not feel I'm suffering some sort of audio loss or lack of performance by using Emotiva products either. If anything my system currently sounds better than it ever has and given my speakers which have a very low impedance and are difficult to drive makes for a potent statement.

I have no idea what's going on between the Parasound vs the Emotiva amps. It could be explained by a number of things not the least of which is an individuals preference for what they believe makes good sound at a particular time and place. And these things will change over time. I know mine have. Like any hobby most of us will develop and hone our listening skills over time and lets us not forget some people adore tubes, some SS, some love digital while others will only listen to vinyl. Musical taste vary as well as prediclicitions for what makes great sound. Few hobbies and industries if any have generated as much animosity as audiophilia-nervosa and there appears to be no signs of it ever abating. The endless snarky comments within this hobby based upon an individuals own superiority complexes of what ever gear they are currently tied into is quite frankly tiresome and solves nothing or makes for a meaningful discussion. Case in point, there are people on this forum whose outspoken opinions I almost never agree with based upon my own experiences and preferences.

It doesn't end there either, amazingly people will have extreme negative comments about gear they have never ever experienced directly, based upon what they assume is best. I for one appreciated Lonnies video, but would have preferred if he extrapolated on some of the disign and perhaps provided yet even more meaningful measurements.

[novisnick]

Oct 23, 2020 16:08:47 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Oct 23, 2020 16:01:43 GMT -5 novisnick said:

I was held back! 🥴 please explain

My comment wasn't meant to put anyone on the spot. However, I find that the test of knowledge of the highly intellectual is often tested by how well they can bring the imbecile to their level and not vice versa. 

I'm willing to play the imbecile cause frankly the label fits as I haven't any idea what that graph means. 

I was being sincere. I too would like an explanation. I’ll play along.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2020 18:56:47 GMT -5 routlaw said:

I have no idea what's going on between the Parasound vs the Emotiva amps. It could be explained by a number of things not the least of which is an individuals preference for what they believe makes good sound at a particular time and place. And these things will change over time. I know mine have. Like any hobby most of us will develop and hone our listening skills over time and lets us not forget some people adore tubes, some SS, some love digital while others will only listen to vinyl. Musical taste vary as well as prediclicitions for what makes great sound. Few hobbies and industries if any have generated as much animosity as audiophilia-nervosa and there appears to be no signs of it ever abating. The endless snarky comments within this hobby based upon an individuals own superiority complexes of what ever gear they are currently tied into is quite frankly tiresome and solves nothing or makes for a meaningful discussion. Case in point, there are people on this forum whose outspoken opinions I almost never agree with based upon my own experiences and preferences.

Thanks for chiming in.......

The reason Parasound is being contrasted is because I owned both. I've owned XPA Gen 3 amps in non and in DR series from Emotiva. Also I've owned Parasound. Seems like these two amps are often contrasted as people have a difficult time justifying the price difference: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/parasound-a23-vs-emotiva-xpa-dr2

First, I don't even know where I got that under 30 amps of output from. Going back through Emotiva's website I don't see the specs on amperage now. 

The Parasound, however, has the spec clearly stated as 60 amps per channel: parasound.com/a31.php

While I realize it's not just about the amp when listening downstream of the speakers but just as important are speakers that may "tell the tale" or *bleep* and moan bout the components upstream. From what I glean some don't, Radio shack Technique speakers will sound like crap no matter what's upstream.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in arguing with others as to which is better because I'm already convinced the Parasound fidelity was night and day better in contrast etc. I was mainly interested in an explanation of why 30 amps output compared to 180 amps? But now, I can't find the source that I remembered. Perhaps it's not in Emotiva's best interest to publish such spec?

Parasound's power supply for both the JC1 A21 and A31:



To be fair, it might not even be apples to apples. I mean the Emotiva DR3 costs round 2000 while the Parasound Halo A31 round 3200. 

While I enjoyed Lonnie's video I was just curious as to my above question regarding power output. He made a claim and the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. 

[creimes]

Oct 23, 2020 23:07:12 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Oct 23, 2020 18:56:47 GMT -5 routlaw said:

I have no idea what's going on between the Parasound vs the Emotiva amps. It could be explained by a number of things not the least of which is an individuals preference for what they believe makes good sound at a particular time and place. And these things will change over time. I know mine have. Like any hobby most of us will develop and hone our listening skills over time and lets us not forget some people adore tubes, some SS, some love digital while others will only listen to vinyl. Musical taste vary as well as prediclicitions for what makes great sound. Few hobbies and industries if any have generated as much animosity as audiophilia-nervosa and there appears to be no signs of it ever abating. The endless snarky comments within this hobby based upon an individuals own superiority complexes of what ever gear they are currently tied into is quite frankly tiresome and solves nothing or makes for a meaningful discussion. Case in point, there are people on this forum whose outspoken opinions I almost never agree with based upon my own experiences and preferences.

Thanks for chiming in.......

The reason Parasound is being contrasted is because I owned both. I've owned XPA Gen 3 amps in non and in DR series from Emotiva. Also I've owned Parasound. Seems like these two amps are often contrasted as people have a difficult time justifying the price difference: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/parasound-a23-vs-emotiva-xpa-dr2

First, I don't even know where I got that under 30 amps of output from. Going back through Emotiva's website I don't see the specs on amperage now. 

The Parasound, however, has the spec clearly stated as 60 amps per channel: parasound.com/a31.php

While I realize it's not just about the amp when listening downstream of the speakers but just as important are speakers that may "tell the tale" or *bleep* and moan bout the components upstream. From what I glean some don't, Radio shack Technique speakers will sound like crap no matter what's upstream.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in arguing with others as to which is better because I'm already convinced the Parasound fidelity was night and day better in contrast etc. I was mainly interested in an explanation of why 30 amps output compared to 180 amps? But now, I can't find the source that I remembered. Perhaps it's not in Emotiva's best interest to publish such spec?

Parasound's power supply for both the JC1 A21 and A31:



To be fair, it might not even be apples to apples. I mean the Emotiva DR3 costs round 2000 while the Parasound Halo A31 round 3200. 

While I enjoyed Lonnie's video I was just curious as to my above question regarding power output. He made a claim and the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. 

I'm curious what the difference is between a Emotiva DR-1 and Parasound A31, myself I cannot afford either of those amps but it's only a $1200 difference between them new doesn't seem crazy, I know audiobill rains down holy hell on the Emotiva stuff all the time but not all of us can afford the likes of McIntosh, Krell, Bryston and even Parasound. I have seen a lot of hatred towards Emotiva gear on many different forums from individuals who obviously have more expensive gear, I actually responded to a thread one time where a guy had a budget so I recommended an Emotiva amp as it fit his price range on what he had to spend and I almost got blasted out of the virtual room from people that also suggested amps like 3 times his budget haha, like really ? it made no sense.

Would something like the Gen 1 or 2 XPA-1 amps be better suited towards the Tekton's you have ? I know they are pure class a/b, I hear many talk about how they preferred the previous gen's to the new Gen 3 stuff, either way if the Parasound is what works for you than that's awesome, but I will say you haven't tried those $185,000 monblocks yet so you don't know what you are missing hahahahaha. I guess perhaps maybe electronics differ but I have heard very expensive speakers and was never wowed more than what I had owned at the time so I don't always believ in more money equals more better, it can and it can't.

One thing I have always found interesting is yes recording studios will use a higher quality XLR cable for example, but I see these ads for 1m XLR cables costing more than my entire system and I think they didn't need those to record the music so why would one need it to playback the music, but I guess if one owns $200,000 amps and $150,000 speakers than they need $20,000 cables to justify it haha, Monoprice cables just won't do

Chad