DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 10, 2020 17:42:42 GMT -5
No problem, amigo - you're allowed a bad mood from time to time (and I definitely AM foolish some times). And you're right. The Roon nucleus' lack of internal DAC and streamer functionality is an integral part of the design. I only consider it a limitation because I want it do more than it was designed to do. This isn't the fault of Roon, but only the wishlist of a (single) potential customer. So no formal review that I wrote would actually call the Roon nucleus' design a "limitation." Moving away from the Roon nucleus now - If I were a designer, what features would I want? A device that could access media (like the Roon nucleus) from both the local network and the internet. The "streamer card" would use open architecture & include all the functionality of the nucleus. The device would have a modular stereo (or multi-channel) DAC (with open architecture, in hopes of becoming a standard) that could be user-upgraded by third parties. The device would have a modular preamp (again - like the above) And the device would have a modular power amp and power supply (like the above) Multichannel? Add more power supplies to the bus and plug in more amp cards (like Emotiva) This would be an all-in-one device that could be as simple or as complex as the customer wanted. It could also "grow" with the user's system. Of course, the economics of this just aren't there or someone would already have made one. But I can wish... Cheers - Glenn Meridian used to make systems like that. They were (and still are) quite expensive. But if you want a one-stop-solution I suggest checking their web sites. |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 10, 2020 19:28:47 GMT -5
Roon’s value is it’s operating system and variants. The hardware it runs on is almost irrelevant. NUC, Nucleus, mac, what have you.
Roon Nucleus is an appliance, based on the Intel NUC.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 10, 2020 20:07:33 GMT -5
Boom. It really seems like you’re requirements can be solved by a good compact disc player. Emotiva makes an excellent one. 😃
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 10, 2020 20:14:54 GMT -5
Boomzilla - from your "what features would I want..." in a device, you want a Raspberry Pi-based solution. Most, if not all, of what you want are already offered. And, those that are not, could easily be. Mark
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Post by LuisV on Dec 10, 2020 20:33:48 GMT -5
Roon Nucleus is an appliance, based on the Intel NUC. Well said... however, I would add one more word... Roon Nucleus is an EXPENSIVE appliance, based on the Intel NUC. |
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Post by LuisV on Dec 10, 2020 21:03:17 GMT -5
Roon’s value is it’s operating system and variants. The hardware it runs on is almost irrelevant. NUC, Nucleus, mac, what have you. As far as I am aware, Roon is not an OS... regardless if you install Rock on a NUC or use a Nucleus, Roon runs on top of a stripped down flavor of Linux. The claim is, they only load what is required to run Roon; therefore, CPU and Memory is not "busy" running processes that are not required to run Roon. Just guessing, but it's probably another reason why they only support specific NUC versions as they would need to add additional drivers to support varied hardware specs as well as test and certify those platforms. My humble opinion, a reason why someone would consider a Nucleus over a Nuc or run core on a laptop, desktop, virtual machine, etc. is because they want a turn key solution that provides the simplicity of taking something out of a box, plugging it in, walking through a few steps to get it working. Yes, there are instances where it's not as simple or straight forward; however, that is why you buy a turnkey solution as you have support to help you through the process. A Nucleus is a dedicated solution that would probably remain on 24 /7; running core on a desktop or laptop would cause intermittent issues due to the the need of logging into that desktop or laptop to start Core and the Roon app. Yes, you can leave your laptop or desktop on 24/7, but those hardware platforms are not as energy efficient as a NUC and are typically not dedicated for audio purposes. Just my 2 cents... |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 10, 2020 21:36:10 GMT -5
Luis, from Roon:
“Roon OS is a custom Linux based operating system, tailored for running Roon Server and providing a best-in-class, appliance-type user experience to host the Roon Core. Roon OS updates are independent of Roon updates, just like updates to macOS or Windows are.”
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Post by LuisV on Dec 10, 2020 21:53:38 GMT -5
Luis, from Roon: “Roon OS is a custom Linux based operating system, tailored for running Roon Server and providing a best-in-class, appliance-type user experience to host the Roon Core. Roon OS updates are independent of Roon updates, just like updates to macOS or Windows are.” Ah... thanks! I also found this... "The Roon guys built a custom kernel and layered the required utilities on top of that. It’s a completely custom Linux distribution built from the ground-up" community.roonlabs.com/t/rock-what-linux-distribution-answered-there-is-no-3rd-party-os/21613/4So basically a spin on what I originally thought... a custom kernel running only what is needed to run Roon. |
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Post by LuisV on Dec 10, 2020 22:08:29 GMT -5
No problem, amigo - you're allowed a bad mood from time to time (and I definitely AM foolish some times). And you're right. The Roon nucleus' lack of internal DAC and streamer functionality is an integral part of the design. I only consider it a limitation because I want it do more than it was designed to do. This isn't the fault of Roon, but only the wishlist of a (single) potential customer. So no formal review that I wrote would actually call the Roon nucleus' design a "limitation." Moving away from the Roon nucleus now - If I were a designer, what features would I want? A device that could access media (like the Roon nucleus) from both the local network and the internet. The "streamer card" would use open architecture & include all the functionality of the nucleus. The device would have a modular stereo (or multi-channel) DAC (with open architecture, in hopes of becoming a standard) that could be user-upgraded by third parties. The device would have a modular preamp (again - like the above) And the device would have a modular power amp and power supply (like the above) Multichannel? Add more power supplies to the bus and plug in more amp cards (like Emotiva) This would be an all-in-one device that could be as simple or as complex as the customer wanted. It could also "grow" with the user's system. Of course, the economics of this just aren't there or someone would already have made one. But I can wish... Cheers - Glenn I think what you are looking for is a Network Preamp Streamer... DAC, Streamer, Preamp in one. 100% agreed on a device that is modular and allows the end user to upgrade. Here are a few example, I'm sure you're familiar with these: www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/hi-fi/edge/edge-nqus.auralic.com/products/vega-g2?variant=34539909382312This one is an integrated, includes DIRAC and has future expansion capabilities: nadelectronics.com/product/m33-bluos-streaming-dac-amplifier/ |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2020 2:35:42 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2020 4:30:46 GMT -5
Are Cambridge Edge, Aurlic Vega G2, and NAD M33 all Roon-compatible? Of the bunch, the NAD seems the most "all in one," but I'd worry about buying NAD because of the number I see offered broken on eBay. I like the Auralic sound, but the last Cambridge I bought (a DAC-Magic, I think) got returned because it just didn't sound good in my system.
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Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2020 8:03:34 GMT -5
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Post by LuisV on Dec 11, 2020 8:04:32 GMT -5
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Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2020 8:06:47 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2020 8:06:59 GMT -5
Provided that the server has sufficient resources, is there any reason to use an external DSP, such as MiniDSP, rather than the built-in DSP functions in Roon?
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Post by audiobill on Dec 11, 2020 8:13:06 GMT -5
Well, the SHD (non-studio full version) has an analog input, so you could use dirac for Phono, etc. Not real clear on the Roon/Minidsp functionality at this point, but it's being worked on between them. : www.minidsp.com/forum/shd-series/17805-roon-stop-support-for-uncertified-devices?start=15The studio version omits the analog input, output and dac. For a savings. Either version is an outstanding unit at an outstanding price. ASR (fwiw) did measurements on the minidsp with great results. I currently use the Roon dsp for digital room correction of digital sources. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 11, 2020 8:28:00 GMT -5
I'm going to suggest what's already been suggested. A simple Raspberry Pi with a good sound board works really well with Roon. I used the HiFi Berry's Digi + card. It's been working 24x7 since I set it up. www.hifiberry.com/ |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 11, 2020 9:49:18 GMT -5
Provided that the server has sufficient resources, is there any reason to use an external DSP, such as MiniDSP, rather than the built-in DSP functions in Roon? Depends on what you need to use it for. The Roon DSP is a decent EQ. The MiniDSP does a lot more thsn that. I personally don't use any DSP in my music systems. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2020 22:57:21 GMT -5
Boom. It really seems like you’re requirements can be solved by a good compact disc player. Emotiva makes an excellent one. 😃 I had one (Oppo UDP-205); FedEx lost it. Why won't I consider the Emotiva CD player? It has no Ethernet port and can't be seen from the network. No streaming? No sale! (and a MAJOR disappointment). IMHO, Emotiva has not only lost their leadership of the "reasonably-priced high-end stereo" market slice, but they no longer even compete there. Why? They've tried to become an internet AV company, and in spending all their resources toward that goal, they've abandoned stereo. Now the above statement is certain to bring the Emo-fanboys out of the woodwork telling me how wrong I am, but others' opinions won't sway me. The facts are on my side. No XSP-1 replacement? No Stealth DC-1 replacement? And what about the BIG hole in Emotiva's line - a streamer? Generation 3 X-series amps? Really? Yes, the BasX line kicks booty at the economy end of the stereo range, but it's no substitute for abandoning stereo components that could compete head to head with Parasound, Rotel, Anthem, and Musical Fidelity - to name but a few. And Emotiva DOES deserve kudos for their Airmotiv speaker line, but the "reasonably-priced, high-end electronics" sector is completely missing. Maybe some new Emotiva products will come along soon that change my mind? I hope so. Boomzilla |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 12, 2020 6:48:30 GMT -5
Boom. It really seems like you’re requirements can be solved by a good compact disc player. Emotiva makes an excellent one. 😃 I had one (Oppo UDP-205); FedEx lost it. Why won't I consider the Emotiva CD player? It has no Ethernet port and can't be seen from the network. No streaming? No sale! (and a MAJOR disappointment). IMHO, Emotiva has not only lost their leadership of the "reasonably-priced high-end stereo" market slice, but they no longer even compete there. Why? They've tried to become an internet AV company, and in spending all their resources toward that goal, they've abandoned stereo. Now the above statement is certain to bring the Emo-fanboys out of the woodwork telling me how wrong I am, but others' opinions won't sway me. The facts are on my side. No XSP-1 replacement? No Stealth DC-1 replacement? And what about the BIG hole in Emotiva's line - a streamer? Generation 3 X-series amps? Really? Yes, the BasX line kicks booty at the economy end of the stereo range, but it's no substitute for abandoning stereo components that could compete head to head with Parasound, Rotel, Anthem, and Musical Fidelity - to name but a few. And Emotiva DOES deserve kudos for their Airmotiv speaker line, but the "reasonably-priced, high-end electronics" sector is completely missing. Maybe some new Emotiva products will come along soon that change my mind? I hope so. Boomzilla I listened to the latest podcast and it appears that new products are in the works with likely 2021 release. Unfortunately Dan will not discuss what due to past heavy criticism on timeframe. I’m sure there will be more X series 2 channel products coming including the XSP-2. |
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