ken51
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Post by ken51 on Mar 30, 2021 12:08:13 GMT -5
Doc1963
You’ve given me food for thought. Guttenberg raved about the T Zero’s imaging and soundstage. I mean, he was gushing. He really liked the T1+ but didn’t talk about imaging. Are they different in their imaging? Based on his review, I maybe happy with the T0. It’s ironic, but the B1+ is so inexpensive, I’m afraid they may sound cheap. I found an open box Q350 for $570. Stands will be another $120. But at $399, the Tzeros have me intrigued.
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 30, 2021 12:38:41 GMT -5
Doc1963 You’ve given me food for thought. Guttenberg raved about the T Zero’s imaging and soundstage. I mean, he was gushing. He really liked the T1+ but didn’t talk about imaging. Are they different in their imaging? Based on his review, I maybe happy with the T0. It’s ironic, but the B1+ is so inexpensive, I’m afraid they may sound cheap. I found an open box Q350 for $570. Stands will be another $120. But at $399, the Tzeros have me intrigued. Not so sure about them imaging "differently" based upon Emotiva's sticking to a common design, but I will say don't discount the B1+ as I have heard them and they sound much bigger than they're size would imply. Guttenberg loved them too. However, I do tend to believe that the T-Zero might be a better fit in a room of your size. Also, do check out Randy's opinions (cheapaudioman) in the links I provided. His videos are sometimes annoying to sit through, but he does have a good head on his shoulders. In fact, in his review of the B1+, I believe he mentions driving them using a TA-100 which, minus the integrated amps, is the same as your PT-100. |
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 30, 2021 13:21:22 GMT -5
Doc1963 You’ve given me food for thought. Guttenberg raved about the T Zero’s imaging and soundstage. I mean, he was gushing. He really liked the T1+ but didn’t talk about imaging. Are they different in their imaging? Based on his review, I maybe happy with the T0. It’s ironic, but the B1+ is so inexpensive, I’m afraid they may sound cheap. I found an open box Q350 for $570. Stands will be another $120. But at $399, the Tzeros have me intrigued. Not so sure about them imaging "differently" based upon Emotiva's sticking to a common design, but I will say don't discount the B1+ as I have heard them and they sound much bigger than they're size would imply. Guttenberg loved them too. However, I do tend to believe that the T-Zero might be a better fit in a room of your size. Also, do check out Randy's opinions (cheapaudioman) in the links I provided. His videos are sometimes annoying to sit through, but he does have a good head on his shoulders. In fact, in his review of the Ai+, I believe he mentions driving them using a TA-100 which, minus the integrated amps, is the same as your PT-100. I'll jump in here on the B1+ because I own a pair. For their size and cost, they sound great. I'm using them in a two channel system on speaker stands in a dining room. Powered by an Emotiva BAS-X A-100 controlled by an old Adcom preamp. I had the same trepidation that they would sound "cheap" due to price, but that is not the case at all. Great little speakers. I agree with Doc....the T series would be the way to go in the size room you are talking. |
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ken51
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Post by ken51 on Mar 30, 2021 16:46:15 GMT -5
I called Emotiva and was told it would be appx. $100 to return the Zeros. I am not a gambler, though from Steve Guttenberg’s review, it seems like the Zeros would be what I want. I can’t figure out how one of my local hifi shops had their amps and pre amps since Emotiva doesn’t go through retail channels. And their price was the same.
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 30, 2021 19:37:47 GMT -5
I called Emotiva and was told it would be appx. $100 to return the Zeros. I am not a gambler, though from Steve Guttenberg’s review, it seems like the Zeros would be what I want. I can’t figure out how one of my local hifi shops had their amps and pre amps since Emotiva doesn’t go through retail channels. And their price was the same. I know it's tough to take a chance, but if you really want to audition these, let me attempt to paint this picture using a slightly different brush... If Emotiva were to build the return shipping into the price (like many other ID companies already do), at $499 a pair, would you still consider the T-Zeros to be a bargain? And if so, would you still be interested in owning them...? Emotiva does not do this... they have enough faith in their products to keep the cost to the consumer as low as possible and assume the customer will be happy with their purchase. They certainly could be like some other ID manufacturers who offer " free returns" but bury the cost into every product they sell. Thinking about it, that could be an additional revenue stream for Emotiva because more often than not, products don't come back. Instead, they choose to offer their products at more than fair prices, offer a 30 day in-home trial, and only ask that the customer pay for return shipping if they are not happy with their purchase. So, again, looking at it differently, here's the "walnut shell" pricing... - T-Zero @ $499/pair - 5 Year Warranty - 30 Day In-Home Evaluation Period - " Free" Return Shipping So, you have to ask yourself... doesn't that still seem like an incredible bargain...  |
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ken51
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Post by ken51 on Mar 31, 2021 7:22:15 GMT -5
Doc1963
Quite the hard sell, Doc. I am now strongly leaning towards The Zeros. After Guttenberg’s gushing and Cheap Audioman’s high praise; not to mention your full court press, the scales have shifted. My wife thinks I’ve gone mad with this. Though she will spend more than these speakers cost on gardening this spring, she can’t understand why I want new speakers when what I have are just fine. So I showed her photos of the Zeros and white Kef Q350s on white stands. She likes the Kefs. Oy. I do too, for that matter. I’m going for a walk and ponder this First World problem. I will make up my mind this morning. I would need my son in law to set them up as I have only one arm to use at this time. And probably for at least another month due to a massive tear of my rotator cuff. Poor, poor pitiful me. Yeah, I liked Warren Zevon. I still get sad when I listen to him, Tom Petty, John Lennon, and John Prine. Chick Corea, Prince, and I could go on. It didn’t take me nearly as long to buy a house or car.
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ken51
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Post by ken51 on Mar 31, 2021 9:34:56 GMT -5
I just ordered the Zeros. One thing nobody mentioned is the tweeter height. It will fall about 3” below my seated ear height. Are stands recommended for this issue?
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 31, 2021 9:53:04 GMT -5
I just ordered the Zeros. One thing nobody mentioned is the tweeter height. It will fall about 3” below my seated ear height. Are stands recommended for this issue? Congratulations on your decision... We all hope you'll love them...!!! As for the height, some have said (refer back to the reviews) that the tonality actually "improves" if the vertical axis of the tweeter is slightly above or below ear level. The tweeter of my T2's are slightly above my seated ear level and sound wonderful. So, experiment and see what you like best. Set them up on a few stacked books and if they sound better to you, cut the legs off of your chair...  But seriously, do let us know how you like them... Good luck...  |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 31, 2021 11:49:28 GMT -5
I just ordered the Zeros. One thing nobody mentioned is the tweeter height. It will fall about 3” below my seated ear height. Are stands recommended for this issue? Stands - no; but you will need to play with tilting them up or down to see what sounds the best. |
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Post by creimes on Mar 31, 2021 17:58:42 GMT -5
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ken51
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Post by ken51 on Apr 4, 2021 9:30:46 GMT -5
The Zeros have arrived. As a lifelong pessimist, I had trepidations they would sound thin and cheap. I was wrong. Though the Polk Lsi15s are more full bodied, the Zeros are airier and are more detailed, which was what I was looking for. On rock songs, cymbals shimmered, tambourines jingled, and acoustic guitars were heard amidst the thrashing of electric guitars.
I have them placed where the Polk’s were, but will be tweaking them. I feel the Polk’s were too big for my room (19x11) and needed room to breathe. The space between the instruments are apparent with Zeros; whereas with the Polk’s, they seemed cluttered. I’ve been using my 20 year old Boston Acoustic PV 500 sub. I had it plugged in the bypass crossover port and then used the use crossover port. I set the dial all the way down to the lowest setting at 75hz. I can’t tell the difference. The volume is set about at 10:00.
I will be listening to other genres and continue to tweak placement. Overall, first impression is the Polks demonstrated more resonance for vocals, but detail and imaging are better with Zeros, which I attribute to the speakers size in relationship with the room. Would the T1+ been a better choice? Maybe, but I am pleased with the Zeros.
Thanks so much for all of your feedback as we all search for audio bliss.
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ken51
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Post by ken51 on Apr 7, 2021 6:45:33 GMT -5
It’s been 4 days and my ears have broken in. The sound has seemed to become more robust to the point I’m not missing the larger Polks. I’ve adjusted the sub settings and have that dialed in. The bass is balanced, tight, and not boomy. I’m listening to Holly Cole’s covers of Tom Waits’ songs. Stand up bass, drums, and a minimal of instruments. All the instruments are in their spaces. I have the left speaker toed in to where I can only see the front and the left speaker toed in more severely to where I can see the right side of it. The right side of the room are four 6x2 widows, so I’m assuming the toe in is reducing reflections, somewhat. This has achieved a center image. I also raised the speakers on cutting boards raised about 1 1/2” and raked them up about 1/2” using rubber furniture casters. Other music I’ve been testing are The English Chamber Orchestra’s Handel’s Oboe Concerto. Again, the detail and spacing is spot on. Roseanne Cash’s minimalistic 10 Demo Songs sounds fantastic. I’m amazed that these speakers are $400.
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 7, 2021 10:07:17 GMT -5
ken51... I'm both happy and relieved that the Zeros have lived up to your expectations. While I have not heard them myself, they seem to get glowing reviews from everyone who has. Even Dan Laufman himself says that they are his personal favorites and, as a result of his statements, may well be the "gem" of the Airmotiv lineup. The Zeros were not in the lineup when I purchased my T-2's. But if they were, I might have went with them myself as I've always wondered if the T-2's are a bit "too much" for my room. Here's wishing you many years of happiness and enjoyment...
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Post by omuracada on Apr 7, 2021 14:21:41 GMT -5
I would like to thank the original OP and everyone else for responding to his post! I am also evaluating purchasing emotiva speakers, however my purpose is for just home theater and not for any music whats so ever. Based on the reviews and the things said here I can not see how I can lose at the cost even if I have to pay return shipping. Any thoughts on running these for pure home theater! I currently have BP2004tl's and would like to update them. I am curious on pairing them with the C+1 center as the C+2 is not available. I am also thinking of pairing them with both the surrounds and heights speakers for a 5.1.4 set up (which is what I have now). Anyone have experience with the heights and surrounds?
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 7, 2021 14:37:57 GMT -5
I would like to thank the original OP and everyone else for responding to his post! I am also evaluating purchasing emotiva speakers, however my purpose is for just home theater and not for any music whats so ever. Based on the reviews and the things said here I can not see how I can lose at the cost even if I have to pay return shipping. Any thoughts on running these for pure home theater! I currently have BP2004tl's and would like to update them. I am curious on pairing them with the C+1 center as the C+2 is not available. I am also thinking of pairing them with both the surrounds and heights speakers for a 5.1.4 set up (which is what I have now). Anyone have experience with the heights and surrounds? In general, good speakers will work well with both home theater and music purposes. So I would not be concerned about their ability to do both, or just home theater surround. Also, the ideal system would include speakers from the same manufacturer. However, if you don't, I would make sure the front speakers are from the same manufacturer for timbre matching purposes. You may want to call Emotiva and inquire as to C+2 availability....when will they be back in stock.... |
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Post by omuracada on Apr 7, 2021 15:19:29 GMT -5
I would like to thank the original OP and everyone else for responding to his post! I am also evaluating purchasing emotiva speakers, however my purpose is for just home theater and not for any music whats so ever. Based on the reviews and the things said here I can not see how I can lose at the cost even if I have to pay return shipping. Any thoughts on running these for pure home theater! I currently have BP2004tl's and would like to update them. I am curious on pairing them with the C+1 center as the C+2 is not available. I am also thinking of pairing them with both the surrounds and heights speakers for a 5.1.4 set up (which is what I have now). Anyone have experience with the heights and surrounds? In general, good speakers will work well with both home theater and music purposes. So I would not be concerned about their ability to do both, or just home theater surround. Also, the ideal system would include speakers from the same manufacturer. However, if you don't, I would make sure the front speakers are from the same manufacturer for timbre matching purposes. You may want to call Emotiva and inquire as to C+2 availability....when will they be back in stock.... Perfect and thanks for the response. Good Point! Calling them now. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 7, 2021 18:03:20 GMT -5
To 'recommend' a speaker is to tell you what I LIKE. I'd say to get a pair of Magnepan LRS and be done. 650$ the pair.
But that doesn't help.
What exactly doesn't make it with current speakers? Image? Extension (high and low end) 'Slam'? Do you want 'sparkle' in the highs?
Reviews are gas. UNLESS you know how the reviewer relates to what YOU like or don't like. Ever bought something that got good reviews and DIDN'T like it?
ALL the Emotiva speaks should share a common voicing.
ME? If you were my neighbor, I'd make sure you DROVE SOMEWHERE and listened to different speakers.
I predict you end up with a better amp, too. If you get a 4ohm speaker of lower sensitivity you'll quickly be up against the A300s limits.
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Post by omuracada on Apr 7, 2021 22:01:03 GMT -5
To 'recommend' a speaker is to tell you what I LIKE. I'd say to get a pair of Magnepan LRS and be done. 650$ the pair. But that doesn't help. What exactly doesn't make it with current speakers? Image? Extension (high and low end) 'Slam'? Do you want 'sparkle' in the highs? Reviews are gas. UNLESS you know how the reviewer relates to what YOU like or don't like. Ever bought something that got good reviews and DIDN'T like it? ALL the Emotiva speaks should share a common voicing. ME? If you were my neighbor, I'd make sure you DROVE SOMEWHERE and listened to different speakers. I predict you end up with a better amp, too. If you get a 4ohm speaker of lower sensitivity you'll quickly be up against the A300s limits. You rock as by recommending the speakers you would get, I now have a new brand I have never heard of to research and possibly listen to at some point! I look forward to researching your Magnepan's and since I am pretty new to the hobby I am not sure I know what I want. I think in the end for home theater I want clarity and detail, less boomy as I have subs for that. Though I say this and still am not sure I even know what I am talking about:) I have learned that no matter the speaker your room plays a HUGE roll as well as does the way you plan or have acoustically treated the room! As for physically listening to all speakers I am interested in, unfortunately that is just not realistic, however by taking advantage of the trial period and can purchase most speakers and try them out for 30 to 45 days. As for the Magnepan I will do my research and see if there is a place near me or someone that may live near by that would allow me to stop by and take a listen. Thanks again for the recommendation and the response! |
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Apr 8, 2021 9:50:52 GMT -5
To 'recommend' a speaker is to tell you what I LIKE. I'd say to get a pair of Magnepan LRS and be done. 650$ the pair. But that doesn't help. What exactly doesn't make it with current speakers? Image? Extension (high and low end) 'Slam'? Do you want 'sparkle' in the highs? Reviews are gas. UNLESS you know how the reviewer relates to what YOU like or don't like. Ever bought something that got good reviews and DIDN'T like it? ALL the Emotiva speaks should share a common voicing. ME? If you were my neighbor, I'd make sure you DROVE SOMEWHERE and listened to different speakers. I predict you end up with a better amp, too. If you get a 4ohm speaker of lower sensitivity you'll quickly be up against the A300s limits. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 8, 2021 13:23:59 GMT -5
To 'recommend' a speaker is to tell you what I LIKE. I'd say to get a pair of Magnepan LRS and be done. 650$ the pair. But that doesn't help. What exactly doesn't make it with current speakers? Image? Extension (high and low end) 'Slam'? Do you want 'sparkle' in the highs? Reviews are gas. UNLESS you know how the reviewer relates to what YOU like or don't like. Ever bought something that got good reviews and DIDN'T like it? ALL the Emotiva speaks should share a common voicing. ME? If you were my neighbor, I'd make sure you DROVE SOMEWHERE and listened to different speakers. I predict you end up with a better amp, too. If you get a 4ohm speaker of lower sensitivity you'll quickly be up against the A300s limits. You rock as by recommending the speakers you would get, I now have a new brand I have never heard of to research and possibly listen to at some point! I look forward to researching your Magnepan's and since I am pretty new to the hobby I am not sure I know what I want. I think in the end for home theater I want clarity and detail, less boomy as I have subs for that. Though I say this and still am not sure I even know what I am talking about:) I have learned that no matter the speaker your room plays a HUGE roll as well as does the way you plan or have acoustically treated the room! As for physically listening to all speakers I am interested in, unfortunately that is just not realistic, however by taking advantage of the trial period and can purchase most speakers and try them out for 30 to 45 days. As for the Magnepan I will do my research and see if there is a place near me or someone that may live near by that would allow me to stop by and take a listen. Thanks again for the recommendation and the response! Shipping back-and-forth is, IMO, a real PIA. Better to narrow it down a LOT before doing the 'trial period'. They COUNT on the problem and expense of back-shipping to SELL. As for your room? Spot On. A good system in a GREAT room sounds better than a Terrific system in somebody's CLOSET. Or echo chamber. You CAN easily over-treat a room. You'll have to read-up on THAT to gain a better understanding of what is done, why and the Vocabulary. Stuff like 'First Reflection Points' turn out to be pretty important. Unless you KNOW what any particular reviewer likes, it's all GAS. They like something a LOT and you could care less. They rave about the bass, but you've got satisfying subs already. At some point? You;'re going to have to Venture Out and LISTEN. Some brands have only Limited distribution thru Brick and Mortar stores. In-Home for Magnepan would be a neat idea. Where DO you live? www.magnepan.com/dealer_locationsJust an example. Similar lists for OTHER brands. Here in CA we are coming up to the T.H.E.show up at the HILTON in Long Beach. A hotel, with hundreds of audio rooms. Dealers and manufacturers. Want to hear a 150,000$ pair of Focal Grand Utopia speakers? Now's your chance! One room devoted to headphones, usually. Another example? KLIPSCH has 2 levels of dealer. 'regular' and Heritage. The Heritage dealers sell more old-school stuff and are more $$ but some consider them investments. Some companies are in VERY limited numbers of dealers and they are controlled as to price and geographic area. |
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