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Post by omuracada on Apr 8, 2021 20:21:12 GMT -5
I do agree the shipping can be a pain, however it is an option and I don't mind if I feel its worth the time for the speaker I may be obsessing about. After going down the rabbit hole with your Magnepan I started to re think the Martin Logins ESL or ESL X as I had auditioned them many years back and really loved the sound they produced, however I was nervous that for theater the "sweet spot" for them would not be great for anyone outside the MLP. My room sucks (for now) as its wide open and has 18 ft ceilings. I would like to treat it however its a battle with the wife over how it looks since its in the living room. We are looking for a house as I will then have a dedicated room!! Until then it is what it is. Right now I am in Rhode Island. Honestly part of this is me just wanting something new to fuss around with as I have had the 2004TLs for ever and would like to change things up. As of now I am going to try an re-demo a pair of Martin Logins as well as their Motion Line, I am on the hunt to demo the Magnepans, and I am also considering demoing the DT Demand tower. Though as of now you got me back into thinking I want to go with the electrostatic. In the end I feel that the lead up to the decision is just as exciting as the actual purchase!! I am not in a rush however super excited to get something new and shiny!! Thanks again for your very helpful feedback and suggestions.
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Post by leonski on Apr 8, 2021 22:03:08 GMT -5
Enjoy the search.
WAF is a problem with Magnepan. The 1.6 or 1.7 is about 60" tall, 20" wide but only 2" thick......but must be placed maybe 3 feet minimum from the 'front' wall.....
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Post by headknocker on Apr 20, 2021 9:27:17 GMT -5
I just want to thank the OP and everyone who contributed to this thread...much appreciated. I'm going back and forth between the T1+ and the T2+. I had my mind finally set on the T1+ and then I kept seeing the glowing, rave reviews on youtube about the T2+....what to do. I had already let my wife know what I had in mind when I tentatively decided to go with the T1's several weeks ago along with their $700 price tag...needed to brace her for impact  . I know they tinkered with the crossover on the T1+ and T2+ compared to their first gen counterparts so I'm assuming the midrange is a little more prominent on the new versions as the reviews seem to suggest? Can anyone who have heard both verify it? Whatever I choose they'll eventually be going into a 12.5' x 10' bedroom which my daughter is currently occupying. I'm somewhat concerned the T2+ may be overkill in that room and the T1+ might be the better option afterall. Decisions, decisions. |
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 20, 2021 10:32:31 GMT -5
I just want to thank the OP and everyone who contributed to this thread...much appreciated. I'm going back and forth between the T1+ and the T2+. I had my mind finally set on the T1+ and then I kept seeing the glowing, rave reviews on youtube about the T2+....what to do. I had already let my wife know what I had in mind when I tentatively decided to go with the T1's several weeks ago along with their $700 price tag...needed to brace her for impact . I know they tinkered with the crossover on the T1+ and T2+ compared to their first gen counterparts so I'm assuming the midrange is a little more prominent on the new versions as the reviews seem to suggest? Can anyone who have heard both verify it? Whatever I choose they'll eventually be going into a 12.5' x 10' bedroom which my daughter is currently occupying. I'm somewhat concerned the T2+ may be overkill in that room and the T1+ might be the better option afterall. Decisions, decisions. I own the original T2 and haven't heard the "plus". But when the Plus series was introduced, both Dan and Lonnie stated that there were no outspoken sonic differences between them and that those of us who already own the "non-plus" originals should feel like we're missing something. But as an owner of the T2, I'm of the opinion that they're too much for that size room. I believe even the T1 might be overkill. If it were me, I'd look hard at the T-Zero's and consider adding a Flex 8 subwoofer to fill out the bottom end. For that size room, I believe that combination would offer you the best and most balanced sound quality while also offering the most flexibility. And coming in at $698, it's also the cheapest option by a buck...  |
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Post by headknocker on Apr 20, 2021 20:36:19 GMT -5
Thanks, Doc. I have two Atlantic Technology SB-1000 10" powered subs in my main HT room and I'm planning to take one of them and put it in the new system...I'm good in regards to the low-end for the time being. To be honest, the room in question is really just a tentative decision...not really set in stone. There's another room on the other side of the house which is also a viable option and it's significantly larger than my daughter's current bedroom...it's our other TV room and it's 15' x 13.5'. The way the room is configured the electronics can only would be situated along the back of the shorter wall and the speakers would be firing towards our semi-open kitchen. The main listening position would be around 10' from each speaker. Does that change your opinion about the T1 and T2 in my situation?
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Post by leonski on Apr 20, 2021 22:31:18 GMT -5
1000$ per pair is a VERY competitive space. VERY.
Reviewers are to be taken with a grain of salt, unless YOU KNOW what they do and do not like.
Ever wonder why there are SO FEW 'bad' reviews?
Also? the 'T' series seems to use the same tweeter, so you are just buying more bass as you go upline.
AND? Specs are misleading. they specify 91 db 'efficiency' which is the wrong term AND at 2.83volts, which is 2 watts (not 1 watt)
at the specified 4 ohms. Something doesn't add up......
But still and all......LISTEN FIRST. That 30 day thing, is IMO, a red herring. It's a LOT of trouble especially when you are trying to convince yourself
that 'just another day'......or maybe 'they just need break in'.....before pulling the trigger on the return.
And? PLAN AHEAD. Upgrading as the mood strikes is a VERY expensive way to attempt to build a system....
ONE and DONE may not be always possible, but is not a bad way to think......
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 0:10:15 GMT -5
AND? Specs are misleading. they specify 91 db 'efficiency' which is the wrong term AND at 2.83volts, which is 2 watts (not 1 watt) at the specified 4 ohms. Something doesn't add up...... Wattage: 8 Ohm speaker w/ 2.83 volts:  4 Ohm speaker w/ 2.83 volts:  geoffthegreygeek.com/understanding-speaker-sensitivity/ |
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Post by thezone on Apr 21, 2021 5:24:31 GMT -5
Specs are indeed misleading, I can show you that these speakers are identical:
Assume that we have two variables a and b, and that: a = b
Multiply both sides by a to get: a2 = ab
Subtract b2 from both sides to get: a2 - b2 = ab - b2
Therefore, expanding gives (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b)
Since (a - b) appears on both sides, we can cancel it to get: a + b = b
Since a = b, we can substitute b in for a to get: b + b = b
Combining the two terms on the left gives us: 2b = b
Since b appears on both sides, we can divide through by b to get: 2 = 1
Therefore T2 also equals T1
: )
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 21, 2021 7:44:02 GMT -5
Specs are indeed misleading, I can show you that these speakers are identical: Assume that we have two variables a and b, and that: a = b Multiply both sides by a to get: a 2 = ab Subtract b 2 from both sides to get: a 2 - b 2 = ab - b 2Therefore, expanding gives (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b) Since (a - b) appears on both sides, we can cancel it to get: a + b = b Since a = b, we can substitute b in for a to get: b + b = b Combining the two terms on the left gives us: 2b = b Since b appears on both sides, we can divide through by b to get: 2 = 1 Therefore T2 also equals T1 : ) You must be in marketing? |
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 21, 2021 8:50:17 GMT -5
Thanks, Doc. I have two Atlantic Technology SB-1000 10" powered subs in my main HT room and I'm planning to take one of them and put it in the new system...I'm good in regards to the low-end for the time being. To be honest, the room in question is really just a tentative decision...not really set in stone. There's another room on the other side of the house which is also a viable option and it's significantly larger than my daughter's current bedroom...it's our other TV room and it's 15' x 13.5'. The way the room is configured the electronics can only would be situated along the back of the shorter wall and the speakers would be firing towards our semi-open kitchen. The main listening position would be around 10' from each speaker. Does that change your opinion about the T1 and T2 in my situation? Larger rooms can accommodate larger speakers... but the only thing afforded to you by moving up the Airmotiv chain is a bit deeper bass response. The basic "voicing" will likely remain unchanged. The Zeros when used in combination with a subwoofer would offer you the greatest flexibility in a smaller room where achieving smooth bass response might be a challenge. Once proper imaging is attained, the speakers must remain in place, but the subwoofer can be located where it gives you optimal low-end room response. In a larger room, the T1 would likely be ideal. In a room that may be dimensionally small, but opens up to other living spaces, the T-2 might be a better choice as there's more cubic space to fill. But keep in mind that all three (T-Zero, T-1 and T-2) are rear ported. So for smoothest "non-boomy" low end response, adequate space for placement from the rear wall will be very important. Not sure if you'd want a large tower sitting three feet forward in a smallish room when a smaller tower could equally get the job done in the same space while also being able to sit a bit closer to the back wall... So before you make a choice between any of the three, I'd decide where you're going to use them and go from there. |
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Post by siggie on Apr 21, 2021 9:39:58 GMT -5
Specs are indeed misleading, I can show you that these speakers are identical: Assume that we have two variables a and b, and that: a = b Multiply both sides by a to get: a 2 = ab Subtract b 2 from both sides to get: a 2 - b 2 = ab - b 2Therefore, expanding gives (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b) Since (a - b) appears on both sides, we can cancel it to get: a + b = b Since a = b, we can substitute b in for a to get: b + b = b Combining the two terms on the left gives us: 2b = b Since b appears on both sides, we can divide through by b to get: 2 = 1 Therefore T2 also equals T1 : ) You can’t argue with those numbers. |
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Post by headknocker on Apr 21, 2021 15:26:17 GMT -5
Doc, thanks again for the in-depth analysis in regards to all three speakers which pertain to my situation. I won't be pulling the trigger soon so I'll have ample time to determine which way I should go. I'm starting to shy away from the T2's which narrows it down to the T1's and T0's. To be honest, I'm sure the 0's would probably make me happy sound-wise but I really prefer the look and size of the T1's. Thanks again for giving me your honest opinion...much appreciated.
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Post by leonski on Apr 21, 2021 16:25:15 GMT -5
Thanks, Doc. I have two Atlantic Technology SB-1000 10" powered subs in my main HT room and I'm planning to take one of them and put it in the new system...I'm good in regards to the low-end for the time being. To be honest, the room in question is really just a tentative decision...not really set in stone. There's another room on the other side of the house which is also a viable option and it's significantly larger than my daughter's current bedroom...it's our other TV room and it's 15' x 13.5'. The way the room is configured the electronics can only would be situated along the back of the shorter wall and the speakers would be firing towards our semi-open kitchen. The main listening position would be around 10' from each speaker. Does that change your opinion about the T1 and T2 in my situation? Larger rooms can accommodate larger speakers... but the only thing afforded to you by moving up the Airmotiv chain is a bit deeper bass response. The basic "voicing" will likely remain unchanged. The Zeros when used in combination with a subwoofer would offer you the greatest flexibility in a smaller room where achieving smooth bass response might be a challenge. Once proper imaging is attained, the speakers must remain in place, but the subwoofer can be located where it gives you optimal low-end room response. In a larger room, the T1 would likely be ideal. In a room that may be dimensionally small, but opens up to other living spaces, the T-2 might be a better choice as there's more cubic space to fill. But keep in mind that all three (T-Zero, T-1 and T-2) are rear ported. So for smoothest "non-boomy" low end response, adequate space for placement from the rear wall will be very important. Not sure if you'd want a large tower sitting three feet forward in a smallish room when a smaller tower could equally get the job done in the same space while also being able to sit a bit closer to the back wall... So before you make a choice between any of the three, I'd decide where you're going to use them and go from there. Right you are about voicing. IF the maker is doing his or her job? You should be able to move 'upline' and just get 'more'.....ususally more bass.... space behind a rear ported speaker? You should be OK with a foot or so.....No need to move 'em 3 feet out except by test. I'd start closer rather than further from the wall.... |
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Post by leonski on Apr 21, 2021 16:33:18 GMT -5
Specs are indeed misleading, I can show you that these speakers are identical: Assume that we have two variables a and b, and that: a = b Multiply both sides by a to get: a 2 = ab Subtract b 2 from both sides to get: a 2 - b 2 = ab - b 2Therefore, expanding gives (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b) Since (a - b) appears on both sides, we can cancel it to get: a + b = b Since a = b, we can substitute b in for a to get: b + b = b Combining the two terms on the left gives us: 2b = b Since b appears on both sides, we can divide through by b to get: 2 = 1 Therefore T2 also equals T1 : ) You can’t argue with those numbers. I'm no heavy math guy, BUT, If A=B, than the equation is meaningless and A or B must equal 0 If A and B both equal 1? becomes meaningless in the real world. I"m sure 'division by zero' is undefined..... www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra/x2f8bb11595b61c86:foundation-algebra/x2f8bb11595b61c86:division-zero/v/why-dividing-by-zero-is-undefined |
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Post by leonski on Apr 21, 2021 16:37:18 GMT -5
to get back to speaker choice? I'd STILL urge the OP to go listen to new stuff. didn't someone mention Rhode Island in this thread as a 'location'?
If I remember right? I'd make a day trip to someplace with some places to LISTEN TO STUFF and quit listening to peopls SAY WHAT THEY LIKE. Without knowong
much at all about what the OP wants......
The 600$ to 1000$ per pair 'space' is incredibly competitive. And don't listen to most reviewers, either. When have you read a BAD review of almost anything?
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 21, 2021 16:47:57 GMT -5
Larger rooms can accommodate larger speakers... but the only thing afforded to you by moving up the Airmotiv chain is a bit deeper bass response. The basic "voicing" will likely remain unchanged. The Zeros when used in combination with a subwoofer would offer you the greatest flexibility in a smaller room where achieving smooth bass response might be a challenge. Once proper imaging is attained, the speakers must remain in place, but the subwoofer can be located where it gives you optimal low-end room response. In a larger room, the T1 would likely be ideal. In a room that may be dimensionally small, but opens up to other living spaces, the T-2 might be a better choice as there's more cubic space to fill. But keep in mind that all three (T-Zero, T-1 and T-2) are rear ported. So for smoothest "non-boomy" low end response, adequate space for placement from the rear wall will be very important. Not sure if you'd want a large tower sitting three feet forward in a smallish room when a smaller tower could equally get the job done in the same space while also being able to sit a bit closer to the back wall... So before you make a choice between any of the three, I'd decide where you're going to use them and go from there. Right you are about voicing. IF the maker is doing his or her job? You should be able to move 'upline' and just get 'more'.....ususally more bass.... space behind a rear ported speaker? You should be OK with a foot or so.....No need to move 'em 3 feet out except by test. I'd start closer rather than further from the wall.... I was referring to the “front” of the speaker being that far forward into the room. But you’re right, a foot behind should work well as a starting point... 😉 |
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 21, 2021 16:50:25 GMT -5
to get back to speaker choice? I'd STILL urge the OP to go listen to new stuff. didn't someone mention Rhode Island in this thread as a 'location'? If I remember right? I'd make a day trip to someplace with some places to LISTEN TO STUFF and quit listening to peopls SAY WHAT THEY LIKE. Without knowong much at all about what the OP wants...... The 600$ to 1000$ per pair 'space' is incredibly competitive. And don't listen to most reviewers, either. When have you read a BAD review of almost anything? We do hear you repeating yourself and most of us do agree with you. But how do you propose going out and auditioning an Emotiva (or any other ID brand) speaker...? Personally, when I gave my opinion to the OP, I knew what he had and was quite familiar with how they sound (because I owned them). I also knew what he was looking at and am also familiar with how they sound. Owning the T-2’s, I have a pretty good idea how they would compare. Being that the OP is quite happy with his purchase and stated that the sound was exactly what he was looking for, sometimes it’s perfectly acceptable to take a leap of faith and trust another owner’s educated opinion. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 21, 2021 20:51:39 GMT -5
What doesn't he like about what he has NOW? And I still don't know how the proposed speakers are the 'cure'. I don't see for an instant how listening to More and Different isn't a good thing. I'm about to go up to LA and listen to KLIPSCH, which are about as far from my current
panels as I can imagine. Than' I'll have a better idea! Going from Planar Magnetic to Horn? A shock to the system, maybe....??
Depending on where you live, it will be anything from a day trip....like me up to LA for a specific audition or maybe a one night stay in a big town with multiple stereo stores. Sure, it's a hassle, but I personally hate shipping stuff back and forth. But maybe that's just me being old fashioned?
I tend to be against frequent upgrades. I see many people with multiple systems. And they swap stuff back and forth to what end I've never been clear. A few guys I know buy USED figuring it is worth a small sum upon resale IF they don't like whatever.....I can see the merit of that approach.
I completely believe you and others suggesting various ends ARE all sincere AND are all nice guys without an 'axe to grind'. If you REALLY want full-immersion shock treatment? Go to a big show. I know these days it's not easy, but in years past I went to the Big Show up in Newport Beach (CA.) and walked the halls for 10 or 12 hours. One year I volunteered at the Audio Guild room to be a 'sitter' and pass out drinks. That gave me a couple hours rest and I was able to see the show for FREE.....And let me add that some rooms lasted about 30 seconds. Others I sat down and listened for a while. Magnepan always had a line and gave out ticets for a certain time......While other places were tough to hear because of inattentive staff.
I'd suggest that at some point EMO get a room and pass out some literature. Just a couple paragraphs of Good Press would be worth its weight in gold. Show some of the gear. Slap some backs. Get some 'buzz' going from the attendees. I was at a house where the club was to audition some 7000$ a pair speaker driven by Constellation amps of about 50K, the pair. But one amp wouldn't work. One of the members went home and brought back a PAIR of small EMO Monoblocks....Not XPA or XPR 1 antything. Quite a good impression and FINE sound. Especially since the amps cost a fraction (10%?) of what the speakers retailed for.
As for auditioning stuff sold over the internet? I had an Idea for the Tekton folks. You need some VOLUNTEERS to periodically let somebody show up and LISTEN in a real house. That's the ONLY way I'd spend 4grand or more on a pair of speakers. HEAR FIRST. Tekton OR EMO could make some kind of arrangements for compensation or something. I don't know the legal aspects of this, but I really like to HEAR stuff first......Again? Maybe I'm just old-fashioned......
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Post by headknocker on Apr 21, 2021 21:50:21 GMT -5
I forgot to add that I was looking at the JBL Stage A180 towers before I started looking closely at the T1+'s. Before I make my move in several months I just may decide to go with the JBL's afterall as I've really liked what I've heard in the few online demos available although I know you can't always put too muck stock in them. They're usually around $100 more than the T1's but there's an ebay seller with tons of outstanding feedback who's letting them go for $560 shipped which is a killer deal,IMO. I'm gonna drive myself crazy before this is all over . |
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Post by thezone on Apr 21, 2021 23:36:57 GMT -5
Sorry for the thread hijack - yes you are correct dividing both sides by (a-b) means you are dividing by zero (as a=b) which is undefined creating a meaningless equation! Nerd out. |
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. I know they tinkered with the crossover on the T1+ and T2+ compared to their first gen counterparts so I'm assuming the midrange is a little more prominent on the new versions as the reviews seem to suggest? Can anyone who have heard both verify it? Whatever I choose they'll eventually be going into a 12.5' x 10' bedroom which my daughter is currently occupying. I'm somewhat concerned the T2+ may be overkill in that room and the T1+ might be the better option afterall. Decisions, decisions. 
