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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 29, 2021 13:14:01 GMT -5
Thanks for asking, I forgot to check, it now reads up to 120 where it is set by default. So it looks like after testing the default, we can lower it to where it’s long enough to get the Input setting correct, but doesn’t make us wait any extra after that. With the original driver, I get the timeout error whenever I’m above 57.5 seconds, so that’s where my ‘workaround’ activities are st. I assume this is some kind of communication error, because as you say, it usually complete successfully even after throwing the error. When I report back on our POD results I’ll explore getting this fixed as well. View AttachmentI've had mine set to 60 seconds for a long time now and only get the time out error once in awhile. It'll be interesting to see if I get it with the 120 second default POD. Thanks for your work on this. I’ve just started testing and am getting very strange results that end in failure. I’m going to try and document what I’m seeing. Edit: I’m also going to delete my test Activities and recreate them. Edit 2: I’m having no luck, it seems to be doing things at the right time, but in the end I have no picture, and usually it’s on the last used input. I also tried adjusting the POD, as soon as you touch it, it goes from 120 to 59, you have to use ‘Restore’ to get it back to 120, so doesn’t look like we’ll be able to play with that. Think I’ll just watch the Olympics 🏊♀️🏃⚽️🏐🏓🏹 |
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Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2021 21:03:46 GMT -5
I've had mine set to 60 seconds for a long time now and only get the time out error once in awhile. It'll be interesting to see if I get it with the 120 second default POD. Thanks for your work on this. I’ve just started testing and am getting very strange results that end in failure. I’m going to try and document what I’m seeing. Edit: I’m also going to delete my test Activities and recreate them. Edit 2: I’m having no luck, it seems to be doing things at the right time, but in the end I have no picture, and usually it’s on the last used input. I also tried adjusting the POD, as soon as you touch it, it goes from 120 to 59, you have to use ‘Restore’ to get it back to 120, so doesn’t look like we’ll be able to play with that. Think I’ll just watch the Olympics 🏊♀️🏃⚽️🏐🏓🏹 There is definitely something goofy going on with the new device. When I used the Windows app to install the driver I looked at the POD and it showed 60 and would not go above that. I deleted and reinstalled with the same result. So I deleted it again and used the iPad to install. It had a 120 second default POD but when I used the Windows app to look at the device that I just added with the iPad it had a 60 second delay max. Looked at it on the iPad and it still showed 120. Anyway, I tried a simple activity and got the time out after one minute but after another minute it asked if all devices were turned on and set to the right inputs. You'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to increase the POD but apparently it isn't. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 30, 2021 17:15:30 GMT -5
I’ve just started testing and am getting very strange results that end in failure. I’m going to try and document what I’m seeing. Edit: I’m also going to delete my test Activities and recreate them. Edit 2: I’m having no luck, it seems to be doing things at the right time, but in the end I have no picture, and usually it’s on the last used input. I also tried adjusting the POD, as soon as you touch it, it goes from 120 to 59, you have to use ‘Restore’ to get it back to 120, so doesn’t look like we’ll be able to play with that. Think I’ll just watch the Olympics 🏊♀️🏃⚽️🏐🏓🏹 There is definitely something goofy going on with the new device. When I used the Windows app to install the driver I looked at the POD and it showed 60 and would not go above that. I deleted and reinstalled with the same result. So I deleted it again and used the iPad to install. It had a 120 second default POD but when I used the Windows app to look at the device that I just added with the iPad it had a 60 second delay max. Looked at it on the iPad and it still showed 120. Anyway, I tried a simple activity and got the time out after one minute but after another minute it asked if all devices were turned on and set to the right inputs. You'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to increase the POD but apparently it isn't. I have tested quite a bit today, and essentially given up on the POD test driver, but I don't think that's the entire problem, there is something going on with the RMC's HDMI input selection -- the first time a choice is made. I'm writing it up but for other's to save time, I wouldn't bother testing the new RMC-1L (POD 120) driver. |
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Post by rogerlons on Aug 2, 2021 9:04:49 GMT -5
There is definitely something goofy going on with the new device. When I used the Windows app to install the driver I looked at the POD and it showed 60 and would not go above that. I deleted and reinstalled with the same result. So I deleted it again and used the iPad to install. It had a 120 second default POD but when I used the Windows app to look at the device that I just added with the iPad it had a 60 second delay max. Looked at it on the iPad and it still showed 120. Anyway, I tried a simple activity and got the time out after one minute but after another minute it asked if all devices were turned on and set to the right inputs. You'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to increase the POD but apparently it isn't. I have tested quite a bit today, and essentially given up on the POD test driver, but I don't think that's the entire problem, there is something going on with the RMC's HDMI input selection -- the first time a choice is made. I'm writing it up but for other's to save time, I wouldn't bother testing the new RMC-1L (POD 120) driver. ... I see this too, but only after a power cycle. Example: After a power cycle, when the unit goes into high-power standby, the first time it powers on (with the Harmony) the HDMI-ARC request goes to HDMI-1 instead. This is consistent, it happens 100% of the time after a restart. Fortunately for me, those are much fewer with the 2.3 firmware. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2021 17:45:23 GMT -5
I’ve given up on testing the new device, but I’m not sure the problem is with Logitech. Specifically, I might be getting a handle on what we’ve sometimes referred to as the HDMI 1 issue, where all power ons lead to HDMI 1. Here’s my new simplified/manual test that shows the G3P problem we’re dealing with. If you want to duplicate I’m using LPS, HDMI Last Used, All Devices Off, and my normal Harmony Devices (not the POD test).
Using the Harmony individual Devices (not an activity), manually perform the following commands (I’ve put my choices in parentheses), you can time it, but you don’t really need to. I do this with my iPhone as I find it more reliable for dealing with errors. Also important, my previously ‘Last Used’ input before power off was HDMI 3 (TV), and my test attempts to select HDMI 2 (Oppo). I think for clarity having these two be something other than HDMI 1 shows the issue more clearly.
For this performance I will be playing the part of MacroMan 👏
Preshow: RMC-1 in LPS with HDMI 3 (TV) as Last Used, all other components in off state
1. TV Device (Sony) -- Power On
2. Source Device (Oppo) -- Power On
3. G3P Device (RMC-1) -- Power On (start a timer if you want)
4. TV Device (Sony) -- Select feed from G3P (HDMI 3)
5. Source Device (Oppo) -- Select TOP (any command that assures source video)
6. …. Wait at least 80 seconds from Step 3
7. G3P Device (RMC-1) : Select Source (Oppo) Input (HDMI 2)
What I see happen: Everything starts up normally as expected. At the end of step 6 the RMC sits waiting in its “Last Used” state (HDMI 3 TV for my test), when I select HDMI 2, I see the input name correctly change to Oppo, and I see the A: immediately switch to HDMI 2, but the V: stays at HDMI 3. It sits like this for about 10 seconds and then the both switch back to HDMI 1.
This happens every time I start from LPS, and as far as I know always has, no wonder building a ‘workaround’ can be so challenging. I suppose one could say ‘it’s your cables!’ as it may be failing to lock on to the video the first time, but it sounds like others are seeing this as well. I don’t know how we can even test the POD driver with the ‘elegant solution’ with this kind of oddness going on (falling just short of calling it a bug, but seems like one to me). I have not tested this with the ‘button’ command, instead of HDMI, as Harmony sends HDMI. A test someone might try is doing the above sequence with all Factory Remotes (I never even put batteries in my Emo Remote).
I may have to tell Logitech that we can’t test their driver any more due to a condition with the G3P. Can anyone confirm my results? I know we’ve referred to the HDMI 1 phenomena before, but I think it’s more pervasive than I realized.
I've uploaded an abridged video, it begins at the end of the wait in Step 6
At 8 seconds I select the Oppo (Step 7)
At 21 seconds the G3P ‘gives up’ trying to switch to HDMI 2, A: fails back to HDMI 1 (always)
At 23 seconds V: follows and fails back to HDMI 1 (always)
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Aug 2, 2021 18:43:39 GMT -5
For this performance I will be playing the part of MacroMan 👏 Preshow: RMC-1 in LPS with HDMI 3 (TV) as Last Used, all other components in off state 1. TV Device (Sony) -- Power On 2. Source Device (Oppo) -- Power On 3. G3P Device (RMC-1) -- Power On (start a timer if you want) 4. TV Device (Sony) -- Select feed from G3P (HDMI 3) 5. Source Device (Oppo) -- Select TOP (any command that assures source video) 6. …. Wait at least 80 seconds from Step 3 7. G3P Device (RMC-1) : Select Source (Oppo) Input (HDMI 2) What I see happen: Everything starts up normally as expected. At the end of step 6 the RMC sits waiting in its “Last Used” state (HDMI 3 TV for my test), when I select HDMI 2, I see the input name correctly change to Oppo, and I see the A: immediately switch to HDMI 2, but the V: stays at HDMI 3. It sits like this for about 10 seconds and then the both switch back to HDMI 1. This happens every time I start from LPS, and as far as I know always has, no wonder building a ‘workaround’ can be so challenging. I suppose one could say ‘it’s your cables!’ as it may be failing to lock on to the video the first time, but it sounds like others are seeing this as well. I don’t know how we can even test the POD driver with the ‘elegant solution’ with this kind of oddness going on (falling just short of calling it a bug, but seems like one to me). I have not tested this with the ‘button’ command, instead of HDMI, as Harmony sends HDMI. A test someone might try is doing the above sequence with all Factory Remotes (I never even put batteries in my Emo Remote). I may have to tell Logitech that we can’t test their driver any more due to a condition with the G3P. Can anyone confirm my results? I know we’ve referred to the HDMI 1 phenomena before, but I think it’s more pervasive than I realized. I just ran through this with Factory Remotes but couldn't reproduce the issue. I setup my XMC-1 for Turn-On Input: Last Used, changed to my TV4K on HDMI-4, went into LPS, TV4K is still on, Panasonic UB820 on HDMI2 is off, and Sony tv is off. Waited a couple minutes. Powered up tv, UB820, then XMC-2, waited 90 seconds and while the TV4K Menu was on-screen I switched to HDMI-2 and that's where the XMC-2 landed. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2021 19:12:34 GMT -5
For this performance I will be playing the part of MacroMan 👏 Preshow: RMC-1 in LPS with HDMI 3 (TV) as Last Used, all other components in off state 1. TV Device (Sony) -- Power On 2. Source Device (Oppo) -- Power On 3. G3P Device (RMC-1) -- Power On (start a timer if you want) 4. TV Device (Sony) -- Select feed from G3P (HDMI 3) 5. Source Device (Oppo) -- Select TOP (any command that assures source video) 6. …. Wait at least 80 seconds from Step 3 7. G3P Device (RMC-1) : Select Source (Oppo) Input (HDMI 2) What I see happen: Everything starts up normally as expected. At the end of step 6 the RMC sits waiting in its “Last Used” state (HDMI 3 TV for my test), when I select HDMI 2, I see the input name correctly change to Oppo, and I see the A: immediately switch to HDMI 2, but the V: stays at HDMI 3. It sits like this for about 10 seconds and then the both switch back to HDMI 1. This happens every time I start from LPS, and as far as I know always has, no wonder building a ‘workaround’ can be so challenging. I suppose one could say ‘it’s your cables!’ as it may be failing to lock on to the video the first time, but it sounds like others are seeing this as well. I don’t know how we can even test the POD driver with the ‘elegant solution’ with this kind of oddness going on (falling just short of calling it a bug, but seems like one to me). I have not tested this with the ‘button’ command, instead of HDMI, as Harmony sends HDMI. A test someone might try is doing the above sequence with all Factory Remotes (I never even put batteries in my Emo Remote). I may have to tell Logitech that we can’t test their driver any more due to a condition with the G3P. Can anyone confirm my results? I know we’ve referred to the HDMI 1 phenomena before, but I think it’s more pervasive than I realized. I just ran through this with Factory Remotes but couldn't reproduce the issue. I setup my XMC-1 for Turn-On Input: Last Used, changed to my TV4K on HDMI-4, went into LPS, TV4K is still on, Panasonic UB820 on HDMI2 is off, and Sony tv is off. Waited a couple minutes. Powered up tv, UB820, then XMC-2, waited 90 seconds and while the TV4K Menu was on-screen I switched to HDMI-2 and that's where the XMC-2 landed. So that could be saying that the ‘button method’ the Emotiva Remote uses, looks different to the processor (than the actual HDMI code), or that IR looks different than wired IR. I’m guessing the former, as that’s how my workaround … works. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on Aug 2, 2021 19:21:54 GMT -5
I just ran through this with Factory Remotes but couldn't reproduce the issue. I setup my XMC-1 for Turn-On Input: Last Used, changed to my TV4K on HDMI-4, went into LPS, TV4K is still on, Panasonic UB820 on HDMI2 is off, and Sony tv is off. Waited a couple minutes. Powered up tv, UB820, then XMC-2, waited 90 seconds and while the TV4K Menu was on-screen I switched to HDMI-2 and that's where the XMC-2 landed. So that could be saying that the ‘button method’ that the Emotiva Remote uses, looks different to the processor (than the actual HDMI code), or that IR looks different than wired IR. I’m guessing the former, as that’s how my workaround … works. That sounds intriguing. What's different about how the code is sent? I know with some codes, like universal codes that I program my TiVo remote with, can send repeats or singles, such that if I use one code for my tv it will change the volume by two steps instead of just one at a time. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2021 19:30:21 GMT -5
So that could be saying that the ‘button method’ that the Emotiva Remote uses, looks different to the processor (than the actual HDMI code), or that IR looks different than wired IR. I’m guessing the former, as that’s how my workaround … works. That sounds intriguing. What's different about how the code is sent? I know with some codes, like universal codes that I program my TiVo remote with, can send repeats or singles, such that if I use one code for my tv it will change the volume by two steps instead of just one at a time. With the Emotiva remote, the Input X command is sent, or as we know it Button X, when the G3P gets this command it ‘looks up’ what’s assigned to Button X and selects that input. The Harmony — when the setup wizard is used properly — sends the actual command to select the input desired, there is no lookup or translation by the ‘Button’. The Harmony can actually send either, if you look at the screen below, the Input HDMI 3 (for example) would send the specific command for HDMI 3, whereas the ‘Input 3’ or just ‘3’ sends the Button command.  Edit: I should have tested this difference yesterday, I always used the actual HDMI command, heading to the neighbors for dinner now. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 3, 2021 14:25:37 GMT -5
This morning I’ve run several tests which seem to confirm my speculation. When the actual HDMI code is sent as the first command after power on from LPS, the RMC responds as I’ve described above and show in the video (it always ends up at HDMI-1). If the Input/Button code is sent as the first command, the RMC responds properly. I’ve used both the Harmony and Emotiva iOS Apps in my testing; this also confirmed something I hadn’t considered before now, like the Emotiva physical remote, the Emotiva iOS remote only sends Button input commands (and hence always works). Along this process I was reminded of LCSeminole ’s post some pages back regarding “COMMAND REPEATS”. I had tried it at the time, but didn’t see any change in my Activities so I chalked it up to something unique in his system. When I saw these HDMI commands not ‘sticking’ I explored changing this setting, and upped mine from 1 to 2 as he suggested. I ran these tests again with only that change and the results were the same. Then I explored the other Delay settings shown below, and tried increasing the INPUT DELAY — theorizing that this would increase the pause between the two identical HDMI commands I was now sending due to the increased COMMAND REPEAT. I increased the setting all the way to the maximum 5 seconds without improvement. I then increased the INTER-KEY DELAY, because ... I had nothing left to try, I took it to the maximum 1 second and still no joy. I will ask Logitech wether the INPUT DELAY actually interacts with the COMMAND REPEAT when an Input command is sent. At this point I feel Harmony Hub based remotes will never work properly when the G3P is in LPS, and the standard Activity Setup Wizard is used to create the Activity (what I earlier called ‘the elegant solution’). I would think other Universal, and Network remote solutions, which have access to the complete remote command set, will also have this problem. I have reported this as a bug. If anyone gets different results running essentially the same test, I would be interested to hear what you're doing.     |
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Post by markc on Aug 4, 2021 16:19:17 GMT -5
It worked on previous (pre 2.3) firmwares, each time, every time.
Now it fails every time, exactly as you say.
What has changed?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 4, 2021 17:20:45 GMT -5
It worked on previous (pre 2.3) firmwares, each time, every time. Now it fails every time, exactly as you say. What has changed? Are you sure of that? Did you test as rigorously as I, or are you finding another nit to pic, I want honest data. I didn’t test this before 2.3 and only did because of my interaction with Logitech and trying to extend the POD. So, are you sure this inability to send an HDMI command started with 2.3? Edit: I have been attributing the change as a longer boot time, but coincidentally started testing at the same time as 2.3. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 5, 2021 1:02:25 GMT -5
So I guess this begs the question… Anyone have a Harmony Hub based remote, and still using FW 2.2 or earlier? Would you be willing to run a short test?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 2, 2021 19:08:16 GMT -5
Today when I started my system using the Harmony App on my iPad, I noticed when I went into setup that it updated some software. It made me think I don’t keep track of that as it happens automatically in the background, but I wondered what the various versions were. So here’s what I found (nothing too interesting) The iOS / iPadOS recent versions:  The current Harmony Hub & Extender Versions:  |
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Post by millst on Sept 3, 2021 11:33:49 GMT -5
I don't think you would need to be too concerned with the app versions (Android/iOS/Windows). They just talk to the hub and the hub does all the work. Thus, the hub firmware versions are the ones that are more likely to cause problems. The release notes are pretty useless. Innocent sounding "bug fixes" often have unintended side effects (new bugs).
Unfortunately, even if the Harmony software is causing problems, it's pretty difficult to troubleshoot. Logitech doesn't make it easy to swap different versions (if you can even find them). It was possible to at one point to use the Windows app to load alternate firmware through a special key combo. I know because a lot of us had to do it when they took away XMPP, causing a revolt.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 3, 2021 12:12:18 GMT -5
I don't think you would need to be too concerned with the app versions (Android/iOS/Windows). They just talk to the hub and the hub does all the work. Thus, the hub firmware versions are the ones that are more likely to cause problems. The release notes are pretty useless. Innocent sounding "bug fixes" often have unintended side effects (new bugs). Unfortunately, even if the Harmony software is causing problems, it's pretty difficult to troubleshoot. Logitech doesn't make it easy to swap different versions (if you can even find them). It was possible to at one point to use the Windows app to load alternate firmware through a special key combo. I know because a lot of us had to do it when they took away XMPP, causing a revolt. Yes, agreed, it was a 'slow news' day 🙂 I too remember an older Windows version of the Harmony Software that I used when testing remote codes before sending the full set to Logitech for the XMC-1. Emotiva provided the codes, but one or two weren't quite right, this software let you load HEX or Pronto codes into a remote's profile, and then download them into an older remote via USB. It probably still works if you can bring up an old copy of Windows, on some older hardware, with the right remote. |
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Post by cwmcobra on Sept 28, 2021 9:45:28 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it, but is anyone using a Harmony Elite hub to automate dimming of lights using Lutron Caseta switches? I'm finding very few options, other than the expensive stuff like Control4, etc. that will allow this control. I'd like to be able to program the Harmony to automatically dim the lights when I start a movie, etc. If this will work, I'll buy an Elite. If not, I'm probably out of luck with this type of automation.
Thanks,
Chuck
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Post by cwmcobra on Sept 28, 2021 9:49:18 GMT -5
And I'll be using this with a JVC projector. Any issues with this combination, including an XMC-2?
I'd love a "one button" solution, but not sure it's feasible.
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Post by geebo on Sept 28, 2021 10:20:59 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 28, 2021 11:59:14 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it, but is anyone using a Harmony Elite hub to automate dimming of lights using Lutron Caseta switches? I'm finding very few options, other than the expensive stuff like Control4, etc. that will allow this control. I'd like to be able to program the Harmony to automatically dim the lights when I start a movie, etc. If this will work, I'll buy an Elite. If not, I'm probably out of luck with this type of automation. Thanks, Chuck I’m doing light switching and dimming with Zwave products from a variety of manufacturers (and yes, a one button operation is possible), but that technology is seemingly becoming less popular. I think it’s too bad, not only because I’m somewhat invested in it, but because the trend is to IP based products on WiFi. While this is relatively simple to setup, as most have a WiFi router, it eventually leads to congested WiFi networks that are less reliable than they already are. I’m actually installing two more Zwave switches today (currently using Honeywell), which does operate on a different frequency. I hadn’t heard of Caseta, but if I was starting today, I would take a good look because it supports Apple HomeKit, and I find myself looking to move as many products as possible there (thought they’re all WiFi too). I see Caseta uses a SmartBridge which is what I’d expect would be needed to link to the Harmony, but I’d hope it’s HomeKit integration is native. We’re at a crossroads of many technologies going forward, but alternatives to Harmony are still hard to find, I think it still has a few years of good life, but I hope a solid replacement is on the way. In short, Caseta would seem to have a longer future than Zwave at this point, and it looks like geebo found the integration with Harmony. I’m interested. |
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