ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 29, 2021 9:43:15 GMT -5
It's been more than two months since I was pumped about the progress being made in alleviating this bug. Now, not so much. I know progress had been made back then and that there were some aspects needing more work, but two months later, nothing on the horizon. I've never been so pessimistic about this since before the bug was acknowledged. That's a bummer...I'm hoping we get some more news in the next couple weeks...at least before Christmas. I was happy to hear that the bug fix was coming soon, but now there's been no further word for over a month. If anything it seems like there's been one step forward, and two steps back, knowing that firmware 2.4 is released but only for new units and not applicable for previous owners. For me, the FW2.4 is a non-issue because as Keith said it's for a production difference. Regardless, we are due a firmware release if only looking to the historical timing of things. I've been surprised before with Easter eggs being in the updates for things not mentioned but improved. Maybe that'll be the same here? ? ? Even if only a partial BM fix that was looking promising a couple months ago. Then again, I recall one December when we were all expecting a release but it happened in the new year instead (don't recall if that was for the XMC-1 or G3P). So I guess what I'm saying is that my expectation is low, so it wouldn't take much to improve my mood. They will need to fix this BMbug if there is any hope for DLBC to work. DLBC will massively increase the complexity of how BM is handled. So I will say this, if there is a chance that they realize that DLBC success is tied to this bug being fixed, then by all means, take the time to fix this thing properly so DLBC will work correctly - and not with a bandaid - do it the painful way and make it right. I know this post is kinda all over the map, but it's a stream of consciousness sort of thing going on here. I've been quiet lately and it's all starting to gush out. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 29, 2021 10:20:48 GMT -5
That's a bummer...I'm hoping we get some more news in the next couple weeks...at least before Christmas. I was happy to hear that the bug fix was coming soon, but now there's been no further word for over a month. If anything it seems like there's been one step forward, and two steps back, knowing that firmware 2.4 is released but only for new units and not applicable for previous owners. For me, the FW2.4 is a non-issue because as Keith said it's for a production difference. Regardless, we are due a firmware release if only looking to the historical timing of things. I've been surprised before with Easter eggs being in the updates for things not mentioned but improved. Maybe that'll be the same here? ? ? Even if only a partial BM fix that was looking promising a couple months ago. Then again, I recall one December when we were all expecting a release but it happened in the new year instead (don't recall if that was for the XMC-1 or G3P). So I guess what I'm saying is that my expectation is low, so it wouldn't take much to improve my mood. They will need to fix this BMbug if there is any hope for DLBC to work. DLBC will massively increase the complexity of how BM is handled. So I will say this, if there is a chance that they realize that DLBC success is tied to this bug being fixed, then by all means, take the time to fix this thing properly so DLBC will work correctly - and not with a bandaid - do it the painful way and make it right. I know this post is kinda all over the map, but it's a stream of consciousness sort of thing going on here. I've been quiet lately and it's all starting to gush out. I agree that it should be done correctly for those who are really looking forward to DLBC. People are getting worried and impatient and that is quite understandable. It's hard to wait for something you want especially without updates. I'm confident the fix will get here....eventually....maybe Keith can chime in.... |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Nov 29, 2021 10:23:39 GMT -5
I don’t think DLBC is related to the BM issue.
One is a bug within the firmware and the other is incorporating the DLBC code within Emotiva’s firmware.
Honestly and with all respect to those who use LFE, if Emotiva can release DLBC with subs in mono mode only if it helps them release DLBC sooner, I’d take that.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 29, 2021 11:48:59 GMT -5
1. I don’t think DLBC is related to the BM issue. 2. One is a bug within the firmware and the other is incorporating the DLBC code within Emotiva’s firmware. 3. Honestly and with all respect to those who use LFE, if Emotiva can release DLBC with subs in mono mode only if it helps them release DLBC sooner, I’d take that. 1. DLBC is not "related" to the BMbug, but really has no way of working as intended while this bug is in play. My opinion, no fact to base it on, but seems reasonable. 2. Yep. 3. I would like to think I'd agree with this, but, on the other hand, it might exacerbate the problem of the time involved for a complete fix and maybe even add to it. Again, no facts to rely on here, just me shooting from the hip again. I really think it's best for all concerned that the fix be a proper one from the get go, which probably means waiting much longer. I just needed some therapy here, felt good to vent. I'm so happy with the two channel sound I don't see how I'd be any happier with something else. So I'm here to stay as far as two channel is concerned. Just last night I had a Xfinity tech in the house who was a avid audio nut like us (maybe more so, he used to build car stereo systems for competition), so I spun some music for him which he thoroughly enjoyed, and he said the same thing everyone says - "It sounds so real!". |
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Post by crotalusv on Nov 30, 2021 16:50:12 GMT -5
Well, I should have done my research before updating my firmware from v2.1 to v2.3 this morning. Now I have the same overblown bass that you all are describing, and it's ruined the experience. Anybody tried rolling back to v2.1 firmware to correct the issue?
Please Emotiva fix this before the holidays so we can enjoy watching movies as a family again!
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2021 18:14:38 GMT -5
Well, I should have done my research before updating my firmware from v2.1 to v2.3 this morning. Now I have the same overblown bass that you all are describing, and it's ruined the experience. Anybody tried rolling back to v2.1 firmware to correct the issue?
Please Emotiva fix this before the holidays so we can enjoy watching movies as a family again! I have reverted back to 2.1 several times in diagnosing this bug. Never had a problem with doing so. |
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Post by crotalusv on Nov 30, 2021 18:17:52 GMT -5
Well, I should have done my research before updating my firmware from v2.1 to v2.3 this morning. Now I have the same overblown bass that you all are describing, and it's ruined the experience. Anybody tried rolling back to v2.1 firmware to correct the issue?
Please Emotiva fix this before the holidays so we can enjoy watching movies as a family again! I have reverted back to 2.1 several times in diagnosing this bug. Never had a problem with doing so. Good to know. I assume the problem went away when you reverted back to 2.1? Thank you! |
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Post by thezone on Nov 30, 2021 18:22:46 GMT -5
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can't you just turn the Bass channel down? I am running fw 2.3 with one sub for LFE and one for BM and I don't notice any elevated bass that sounds unnatural or ruins the listening experience in any way.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2021 18:32:07 GMT -5
I have reverted back to 2.1 several times in diagnosing this bug. Never had a problem with doing so. Good to know. I assume the problem went away when you reverted back to 2.1? Thank you! Yes, 2.1 sounded like 2.1 again. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2021 18:35:51 GMT -5
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can't you just turn the Bass channel down? I am running fw 2.3 with one sub for LFE and one for BM and I don't notice any elevated bass that sounds unnatural or ruins the listening experience in any way. Yes, you can turn down the subwoofer channel, but that also lowers LFE by the amount of decrease. Not good. So I split BM and LFE by using Left Sub Output for BM, and using Center Sub Output for LFE. This way I can level BM and LFE individually even though both Output channels are sent to the same subwoofers. |
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Post by markc on Nov 30, 2021 19:58:09 GMT -5
They will need to fix this BMbug if there is any hope for DLBC to work. DLBC will massively increase the complexity of how BM is handled. So I will say this, if there is a chance that they realize that DLBC success is tied to this bug being fixed, then by all means, take the time to fix this thing properly so DLBC will work correctly - and not with a bandaid - do it the painful way and make it right. Actually, Emotiva needs to fix bass extraction and it's appropriate redirection to the subwoofer(3) but not because of any Dirac add-ons that may be coming (or not) They need to fix this today because, along with a volume control and a channel upmixer, it is THE MOST fundamental function of a Surround Sound Processor. (Subwoofers have been part of home audio for 20 years and the basic rules remain unchanged) It is very easy to do mathematically, as are the 3/6dB volume adjustments needed when summing or splitting audio signals I am prepared to have patience with Dirac Live and any unpromised bolt-ons, but I am not prepared to be patient with regard to the simple everyday functioning of home cinema speakers set to "Small" and a subwoofer (or 3) to play the summed diverted bass (volume adjusted to match the LFE channel which is encoded at -10dB) plus the LFE signal |
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Post by marcl on Nov 30, 2021 20:11:30 GMT -5
They will need to fix this BMbug if there is any hope for DLBC to work. DLBC will massively increase the complexity of how BM is handled. So I will say this, if there is a chance that they realize that DLBC success is tied to this bug being fixed, then by all means, take the time to fix this thing properly so DLBC will work correctly - and not with a bandaid - do it the painful way and make it right. Actually, Emotiva needs to fix bass extraction and it's appropriate redirection to the subwoofer(3) but not because of any Dirac add-ons that may be coming (or not) They need to fix this today because, along with a volume control and a channel upmixer, it is THE MOST fundamental function of a Surround Sound Processor. (Subwoofers have been part of home audio for 20 years and the basic rules remain unchanged) It is very easy to do mathematically, as are the 3/6dB volume adjustments needed when summing or splitting audio signals I am prepared to have patience with Dirac Live and any unpromised bolt-ons, but I am not prepared to be patient with regard to the simple everyday functioning of home cinema speakers set to "Small" and a subwoofer (or 3) to play the summed diverted bass (volume adjusted to match the LFE channel which is encoded at -10dB) plus the LFE signal Agreed. It's not a nit picky nuance. It's fundamental to how any processor should work irrespective of Dirac Live, DLBC, Dolby or DTS. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2021 21:13:32 GMT -5
ALL OF THE ABOVE.
But not a bandaid fix. I'm tired of those. The point being that User (non-Dirac) works better than with Dirac applied. So sumthin's not right from the get-go. BM is not fixed if it doesn't work the same for Dirac as it does for User (and it doesn't), it would still mean something is messed up. DLBC has no chance.
I've gone back to not using Dirac at all and surround is a better overall experience, last night's double feature Movie Night! proved that. (For The Love Of The Game, and Mr Brooks). But not all audio modes work properly, like All Stereo, which I like to use for when I'm not sitting in one spot just listening. All Stereo is horrible.
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 1, 2021 19:45:22 GMT -5
Why is it so hard for them to look at what changed from FW 2.1 in regards to bass and fix it? I’m honestly getting pissed about this and I’m getting tired of adjusting down my SW channel by 6dB every time I want to watch something. At a minimum we should get a response from Lonnie etc as to what they see the issue is. It’s been far long enough.
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Post by geebo on Dec 1, 2021 21:42:07 GMT -5
Why is it so hard for them to look at what changed from FW 2.1 in regards to bass and fix it? I’m honestly getting pissed about this and I’m getting tired of adjusting down my SW channel by 6dB every time I want to watch something. At a minimum we should get a response from Lonnie etc as to what they see the issue is. It’s been far long enough. In the meantime why not adjust the SW level down by 6dB in speaker setup levels? That way you don't have to change it every time you turn the processor on. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Dec 2, 2021 13:29:05 GMT -5
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can't you just turn the Bass channel down? I am running fw 2.3 with one sub for LFE and one for BM and I don't notice any elevated bass that sounds unnatural or ruins the listening experience in any way. Yes, you can turn down the subwoofer channel, but that also lowers LFE by the amount of decrease. Not good. So I split BM and LFE by using Left Sub Output for BM, and using Center Sub Output for LFE. This way I can level BM and LFE individually even though both Output channels are sent to the same subwoofers. That’s a brilliant solution! Do you use a miniDSP to mix them back together? |
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Post by markc on Dec 7, 2021 6:13:55 GMT -5
Yes, you can turn down the subwoofer channel, but that also lowers LFE by the amount of decrease. Not good. So I split BM and LFE by using Left Sub Output for BM, and using Center Sub Output for LFE. This way I can level BM and LFE individually even though both Output channels are sent to the same subwoofers. That’s a brilliant solution! Do you use a miniDSP to mix them back together? It is in no way a solution and is only barely a passable workaround until this gets fixed. It requires two subwoofers, although I guess it is possible to feel the left and right channel inputs of the sub with the two outputs so they get reintegrated, but all this is a lot of kludging for something that is very simple for a processor to get right in the first place. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Dec 7, 2021 11:21:17 GMT -5
Yes, you can turn down the subwoofer channel, but that also lowers LFE by the amount of decrease. Not good. So I split BM and LFE by using Left Sub Output for BM, and using Center Sub Output for LFE. This way I can level BM and LFE individually even though both Output channels are sent to the same subwoofers. That’s a brilliant solution! Do you use a miniDSP to mix them back together? Yes. Using the Left Sub MONO Out and Center Sub LFE Out of the processor, into miniDSP Inputs 1 & 2, then these are combined back together and output to however many subwoofers I want, whether that's 1 sub or more. |
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 7, 2021 11:42:11 GMT -5
That’s a brilliant solution! Do you use a miniDSP to mix them back together? Yes. Using the Left Sub MONO Out and Center Sub LFE Out of the processor, into miniDSP Inputs 1 & 2, then these are combined back together and output to however many subwoofers I want, whether that's 1 sub or more. Ttocs, You have been speaking to people at Emotiva correct? I was going to call tech support just so they don’t forget about this issue, but I would think that would be pointless if you have already been doing that. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Dec 7, 2021 12:15:28 GMT -5
Yes. Using the Left Sub MONO Out and Center Sub LFE Out of the processor, into miniDSP Inputs 1 & 2, then these are combined back together and output to however many subwoofers I want, whether that's 1 sub or more. Ttocs, You have been speaking to people at Emotiva correct? I was going to call tech support just so they don’t forget about this issue, but I would think that would be pointless if you have already been doing that. Yes, I've spoken directly to Emotiva about this bug specifically, as recently as within the last couple weeks. It's very important to me - and all of us - that this gets fixed asap and I've explicitly expressed this to them very recently. Even so, I don't have a clue about the timing of when a cure might be in a firmware release. I can only speculate, like I've done recently. But my hopes were buoyed in a major way when Keith said what he said on December 2nd HERE , third post down from the top. With that said, more voices = better. |
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