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Post by housetech on Jul 21, 2021 11:40:34 GMT -5
goodfellas27, I read that review over the weekend!! I was shocked by those measurements.
I'm "reimagining" my whole audio system, considering a new 2-ch power amp to pair with XMC-1 and was leaning toward the DR-2, read it and now going another direction. (XPA HC-1, ATI Signature, Rotel or something else?)
I stated in another post, my Denon AVR5700- in stereo, the internal amp sounded better than preamp out to the XPA-5 gen 2. I'm sure some just laughed at that comment... I don't care, it's true. XPA-5 is a good value product, no regrets. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear because we refuse to admit maybe our purchase isn't as good as we want it to be, ie, new fancy cables, expensive DAC, an amp, etc. Specs are good to narrow our choices, but our ears don't lie, spending more $ does not always mean better.
We need to consider a manufactured product can just come together perfectly due to tolerances of the materials used and other times- not so much.
I just made an audio purchase that I'll review & post soon, but some will scoff. Oh well... we'll see (hear).
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Post by garbulky on Jul 21, 2021 14:59:07 GMT -5
goodfellas27, I read that review over the weekend!! I was shocked by those measurements. I'm "reimagining" my whole audio system, considering a new 2-ch power amp to pair with XMC-1 and was leaning toward the DR-2, read it and now going another direction. (XPA HC-1, ATI Signature, Rotel or something else?) I stated in another post, my Denon AVR5700- in stereo, the internal amp sounded better than preamp out to the XPA-5 gen 2. I'm sure some just laughed at that comment... I don't care, it's true. XPA-5 is a good value product, no regrets. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear because we refuse to admit maybe our purchase isn't as good as we want it to be, ie, new fancy cables, expensive DAC, an amp, etc. Specs are good to narrow our choices, but our ears don't lie, spending more $ does not always mean better. We need to consider a manufactured product can just come together perfectly due to tolerances of the materials used and other times- not so much. I just made an audio purchase that I'll review & post soon, but some will scoff. Oh well... we'll see (hear). Well the HC-1 isn't gonna be better though. Except maybe for crosstalk. It's more or less the equivalent of the XPA-2 gen 3 single blade version. |
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Post by repeetavx on Jul 23, 2021 9:29:58 GMT -5
There is no replacement for displacement.
Emotiva made their reputation on really great sounding affordable amps. They did have some problems and they have done their best to address them. Though most of us purists are now turning our noses up at those "improvements".
My gen. 1 XPA-2 has 16 "output devices" per channel. The gen. 1 XPA-1 had 24. Using multiple output devices creates a low output impedance. A low output impedance allows what is known as counter-EMF to be "drained" off to ground efficiently. The bigger the drain, the faster and more completely counter-EMF is eliminated from influencing the speaker fidelity.
Lots of old fashion transistors take up a lot of room, and generate a bunch of heat. As well as increasing the "parts" count.
The new Emotiva amps use "integrated" output devices. That package several output "devices" into a single package reducing the component size and reducing heat generation. Emotiva will then tell you that these smaller "more efficient" devices sound "better" than using all of those legacy components.
The same thing with the power supply. By using high frequency switching power supplies, designers can increase the "transforming" efficiency of transformers. You just have to realize that filtering what comes out requires extra steps, mostly filtering effects that splatter all over the audible range.
The measurements being discussed in this thread are merely the artifacts of this evolution in technology. I would posit that this new technology is not as "refined" as its hawkers would have us believe.
So yes, Emotiva's new amps are lighter, cooler running, and more energy efficient. But only you can decide if your ears are "happier".
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Post by jjkessler on Jul 24, 2021 10:21:02 GMT -5
I would love to have them evaluate one of my XPA-1L amps to see how it compares
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Post by jjkessler on Jul 24, 2021 17:04:43 GMT -5
It will cost $350 to have the same tests run on one of my XPA-1L units. May go ahead and do it as I won’t need the amp for a while until our new house is done. Would be very curious to see how they compare with the same testing
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 24, 2021 17:17:56 GMT -5
He charges $350 for his testing?
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Post by jjkessler on Jul 24, 2021 17:21:50 GMT -5
Yes, that was my quote.
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Post by novisnick on Jul 24, 2021 18:05:56 GMT -5
I agree with audiobill , use your ears. If somebody tells you a particular car does 180 mph do you flat out believe them or do you want to judge and feel it yourself. Experience the amp if you want to know what you think about it, I have and I kept the XPA-DR2. System #2 has this amp for two channel and also does duty alongside my XPA-5 gen2 for the theater experience. I haven’t been happy with Emotiva for some time now but I must be honest and just had to comment on the amp I purchased new. Yep, Im a happy owner of the DR2 Stats and numbers mean little when you find the sound appealing to your ear. Heers |
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Post by Cogito on Jul 25, 2021 8:47:54 GMT -5
I remember a not too flattering review by Sound&Vision also, where I believe the measurements on an XPA-5 Gen 3 were out of whack. I also remember Dan coming in here after the review mentioning he was going to reach out to them to address the inconsistencies. I read them monthly, and have never seen any rebuttal from Dan or anyone else in regards to their findings. I believe that was Stereophile where he said the unit they sent them had an issue and he was going to dig up the specific amp and get things cleared up. Of course he never did. On Amir's numbers, I'm curious about 2 things: 1. Did he measure the prior gen amps and/or the BasX? If so, how were those findings? 2. Did Amir ever measure an amp, change the power cord to something supposedly better, and then re-measure? Oneguy's post about his DIY power cord made me think this would be one of the better uses of Amir's testing. Reading through the comments in that thread is pretty interesting - they sure do like their Class D amps. I can only assume those must measure better than A or A/B amps, since they love their numbers. Change the power cord??? Good, grief... |
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 25, 2021 9:14:18 GMT -5
Exactly.
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Post by jackpine on Jul 25, 2021 23:16:35 GMT -5
Emotiva rates the distortion at .1% which while not impressive is generally consider inaudible. Amir measured it at .05% in one channel and .07% in the other. The SNR ratios and power output match what Emotiva specs too. The thing that doesn't look so great is Sinad which combines distortion and noise into one measurement. So if I understand Sinad correctly a different amp could be noisier but lower distorting than Emotiva and measure the same. So depending if one values quietness or low distortion as more important, Maybe Sinad isn't something that tells the whole story like ASR purports it to?
If someone bought this amp based on specs and price you got what you paid for. You can sometimes beat the specs/price ratio with class D or pro amps but many "audiophiles" want nothing to do with them. If those people want something with better specs and this much power they better be prepared to spend more.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Jul 25, 2021 23:41:53 GMT -5
goodfellas27, I read that review over the weekend!! I was shocked by those measurements. I'm "reimagining" my whole audio system, considering a new 2-ch power amp to pair with XMC-1 and was leaning toward the DR-2, read it and now going another direction. (XPA HC-1, ATI Signature, Rotel or something else?) I stated in another post, my Denon AVR5700- in stereo, the internal amp sounded better than preamp out to the XPA-5 gen 2. I'm sure some just laughed at that comment... I don't care, it's true. XPA-5 is a good value product, no regrets. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear because we refuse to admit maybe our purchase isn't as good as we want it to be, ie, new fancy cables, expensive DAC, an amp, etc. Specs are good to narrow our choices, but our ears don't lie, spending more $ does not always mean better. We need to consider a manufactured product can just come together perfectly due to tolerances of the materials used and other times- not so much. I just made an audio purchase that I'll review & post soon, but some will scoff. Oh well... we'll see (hear). You won’t go wrong with the ATI signature |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jul 26, 2021 15:41:35 GMT -5
Amir does not purport SINAD as telling “the whole” story. SINAD is only used for comparative ratings. Plenty of measurements besides SINAD in each review.
Russ
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Post by jackpine on Jul 26, 2021 20:09:58 GMT -5
Amir does not purport SINAD as telling “the whole” story. SINAD is only used for comparative ratings. Plenty of measurements besides SINAD in each review. Russ You're right. I appreciate that he will often provide more test results if people request. I'd like him to do more complete testing i.e. more than one input and out put tested, but understand why he doesn't. The site as a whole is very SINAD centric and I suspect a lot of people there just look at the SINAD comparison chart when making buying decisions. |
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Post by housetech on Jul 26, 2021 20:27:23 GMT -5
audiosyndrome, I also read the comments to get real owner's opinions.
One of my thoughts while reading his review was, 'did he get a bad unit?'
Don't understand why Emo stopped production of the SA250. I never read a bad review or negative comment from owners.
Technics SL-1200Mk2 with KAB mods,Grado Gold2
Bryston 0.5B balanced phono stage
XMC-1
XPA-1L Gen 2 (x5)
Bet that sounds...nice.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jul 27, 2021 10:49:15 GMT -5
To be candid - we stopped producing the SA-250 because they didn't sell as well as we'd hoped.
We really liked the SA-250 as well...
The SA-250 was more "overdesigned" than our other amps at the time... And it included a few extra "features and refinements"... (I personally thought they also looked cooler than our other amps - but not everyone agreed there...)
And, as a result of that, we had to charge more for them... And most of our customers at the time chose models that cost less... It really was that simple...
audiosyndrome, I also read the comments to get real owner's opinions. One of my thoughts while reading his review was, 'did he get a bad unit?' Don't understand why Emo stopped production of the SA250. I never read a bad review or negative comment from owners. Technics SL-1200Mk2 with KAB mods,Grado Gold2 Bryston 0.5B balanced phono stage XMC-1 XPA-1L Gen 2 (x5) Bet that sounds...nice. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 27, 2021 10:57:38 GMT -5
To be candid - we stopped producing the SA-250 because they didn't sell as well as we'd hoped. We really liked the SA-250 as well...
The SA-250 was more "overdesigned" than our other amps at the time... And it included a few extra "features and refinements"... (I personally thought they also looked cooler than our other amps - but not everyone agreed there...)
And, as a result of that, we had to charge more for them... And most of our customers at the time chose models that cost less... It really was that simple...
audiosyndrome, I also read the comments to get real owner's opinions. One of my thoughts while reading his review was, 'did he get a bad unit?' Don't understand why Emo stopped production of the SA250. I never read a bad review or negative comment from owners. Technics SL-1200Mk2 with KAB mods,Grado Gold2 Bryston 0.5B balanced phono stage XMC-1 XPA-1L Gen 2 (x5) Bet that sounds...nice. I would have loved to see an XPA-1 gen 2 version of the SA-250. |
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Post by audiobill on Jul 27, 2021 11:23:45 GMT -5
To be candid - we stopped producing the SA-250 because they didn't sell as well as we'd hoped.
We really liked the SA-250 as well...
The SA-250 was more "overdesigned" than our other amps at the time... And it included a few extra "features and refinements"... (I personally thought they also looked cooler than our other amps - but not everyone agreed there...)
And, as a result of that, we had to charge more for them... And most of our customers at the time chose models that cost less... It really was that simple...
audiosyndrome, I also read the comments to get real owner's opinions. One of my thoughts while reading his review was, 'did he get a bad unit?' Don't understand why Emo stopped production of the SA250. I never read a bad review or negative comment from owners. Technics SL-1200Mk2 with KAB mods,Grado Gold2 Bryston 0.5B balanced phono stage XMC-1 XPA-1L Gen 2 (x5) Bet that sounds...nice. Did you consider upgrading it with a switching power supply? |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Jul 27, 2021 11:57:27 GMT -5
Any consideration on Emotiva producing their own Ice Power IceEdge/nCore Amps? There is a big market in the DIY space that Emotiva could easily take some market share.
Class D should complement DR2 and the rest of GEN 3 amps.
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Post by goodfellas27 on Jul 29, 2021 22:08:17 GMT -5
Amir said he give his test files to Emotiva: any update Emotiva?
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