cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,914
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 2, 2021 11:36:30 GMT -5
Hello, Their support person sent an email to me, stating that no internal fuses exist on this model...not sure if that is correct, but that is what they are telling me. That’s interesting because the XPA Gen3 Owner’s Manual says “ Only replace the fuse(s) in the XPA Gen3 amplifier with fuse(s) of proper value and voltage rating.” It’s certainly possible this is boilerplate language held over from previous models, but if it were me, I’d make sure before sending it back — a phone call would be your best bet. If you’re comfortable doing such things, unplug both of the amps and let them sit for a while, then carefully remove the top cover and visually inspect the inside looking for fuses, loose connectors, or anything unusual — you shouldn’t need to touch anything. Flip the amp over and do the same with the bottom plate, try to use the correct size screwdriver so you don’t damage or scratch the screws. If you’re not comfortable, and there’s no confirmation here that there are no fuses, maybe you can find a local shop or friend who can do this for you. Looking at the internal pics....I can't see any fuses. It's quite possible that they are correct. A phone call to verify would be in order.
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Post by housetech on Aug 2, 2021 12:49:57 GMT -5
Too hard to imagine any amp manufacture not installing a $cheap fuse or breaker, especially the X series.
XPA manual- Troubleshooting Your XPA Gen3 was carefully designed and manufactured from high-quality precision components to ensure years of trouble free operation. We really doubt you’ll ever have any problems with your XPA Gen3, but if you do, here are a few things you could try: Problem: No output (nothing is lit). Reason: You have no AC power. • Verify that the rear panel AC Power switch is On. • Verify that your circuit is live. • Verify that the line cord on your XPA Gen3 is fully inserted and is tight. • Verify that the Circuit Breaker hasn’t popped. When the circuit breaker pops, the button will pop up and extend noticeably from the rear panel. If this happens, try resetting the Circuit Breaker by pressing the button firmly in. If the Circuit Breaker pops a second time, please contact Emotiva, or your nearest authorized Emotiva service representative.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 2, 2021 14:58:43 GMT -5
Hello, Their support person sent an email to me, stating that no internal fuses exist on this model...not sure if that is correct, but that is what they are telling me. That’s interesting because the XPA Gen3 Owner’s Manual says “ Only replace the fuse(s) in the XPA Gen3 amplifier with fuse(s) of proper value and voltage rating.” It’s certainly possible this is boilerplate language held over from previous models, but if it were me, I’d make sure before sending it back — a phone call would be your best bet. If you’re comfortable doing such things, unplug both of the amps and let them sit for a while, then carefully remove the top cover and visually inspect the inside looking for fuses, loose connectors, or anything unusual — you shouldn’t need to touch anything. Flip the amp over and do the same with the bottom plate, try to use the correct size screwdriver so you don’t damage or scratch the screws. If you’re not comfortable, and there’s no confirmation here that there are no fuses, maybe you can find a local shop or friend who can do this for you. Thanks. Yes, I completely agree that a phone call would be the best way to handle this problem. But, it seems that Emotiva does not agree. As I mentioned, their toll free support number is disconnected. And the main number will route you to a support area, where you only have the option to leave a message.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 2, 2021 15:01:42 GMT -5
That’s interesting because the XPA Gen3 Owner’s Manual says “ Only replace the fuse(s) in the XPA Gen3 amplifier with fuse(s) of proper value and voltage rating.” It’s certainly possible this is boilerplate language held over from previous models, but if it were me, I’d make sure before sending it back — a phone call would be your best bet. If you’re comfortable doing such things, unplug both of the amps and let them sit for a while, then carefully remove the top cover and visually inspect the inside looking for fuses, loose connectors, or anything unusual — you shouldn’t need to touch anything. Flip the amp over and do the same with the bottom plate, try to use the correct size screwdriver so you don’t damage or scratch the screws. If you’re not comfortable, and there’s no confirmation here that there are no fuses, maybe you can find a local shop or friend who can do this for you. Looking at the internal pics....I can't see any fuses. It's quite possible that they are correct. A phone call to verify would be in order. I did take the top panel off on one of them to see more about the circuit breaker. But did not see anything loose or that looked like fuse. But, then again, I have not met any amp fuses before, so not sure what they would look like.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2021 15:16:41 GMT -5
That’s interesting because the XPA Gen3 Owner’s Manual says “ Only replace the fuse(s) in the XPA Gen3 amplifier with fuse(s) of proper value and voltage rating.” It’s certainly possible this is boilerplate language held over from previous models, but if it were me, I’d make sure before sending it back — a phone call would be your best bet. If you’re comfortable doing such things, unplug both of the amps and let them sit for a while, then carefully remove the top cover and visually inspect the inside looking for fuses, loose connectors, or anything unusual — you shouldn’t need to touch anything. Flip the amp over and do the same with the bottom plate, try to use the correct size screwdriver so you don’t damage or scratch the screws. If you’re not comfortable, and there’s no confirmation here that there are no fuses, maybe you can find a local shop or friend who can do this for you. Thanks. Yes, I completely agree that a phone call would be the best way to handle this problem. But, it seems that Emotiva does not agree. As I mentioned, their toll free support number is disconnected. And the main number will route you to a support area, where you only have the option to leave a message. This is not correct — if you call during business hours — I just dialed 1-615-790-6754 option 2 and talked with a real person (Grayson). Give it a try now. Edit: There is also a chat option if you go to Emotiva.com during business hours, but I’ve not used it.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 3, 2021 11:00:28 GMT -5
Thanks. Yes, I completely agree that a phone call would be the best way to handle this problem. But, it seems that Emotiva does not agree. As I mentioned, their toll free support number is disconnected. And the main number will route you to a support area, where you only have the option to leave a message. This is not correct — if you call during business hours — I just dialed 1-615-790-6754 option 2 and talked with a real person (Grayson). Give it a try now. Edit: There is also a chat option if you go to Emotiva.com during business hours, but I’ve not used it. I tried again this morning and the same lady that has been helping me through email was available to speak. She did confirm that all warranty repairs must be done at their location.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 3, 2021 11:04:07 GMT -5
As a side question that seems stupid (and great for this particular forum's title):
Why is it that the sound now is so much better and clearer when I have connected my old Outlaw Audio 5-channel amps after these 2 Emotiva ones died? The Outlaws seem to indicate about 150 watts into the 4-ohm speakers from Emotiva that I have. While the Emotiva amps seem to indicate 200 watts into 8 ohms (so more into 4 ohms).
Is the Outlaw amp design better for reproducing audio? Certainly cheaper. :-)
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 3, 2021 11:47:07 GMT -5
As a side question that seems stupid (and great for this particular forum's title): Why is it that the sound now is so much better and clearer when I have connected my old Outlaw Audio 5-channel amps after these 2 Emotiva ones died? The Outlaws seem to indicate about 150 watts into the 4-ohm speakers from Emotiva that I have. While the Emotiva amps seem to indicate 200 watts into 8 ohms (so more into 4 ohms). Is the Outlaw amp design better for reproducing audio? Certainly cheaper. :-) This seems a loaded question as you’re frustrated with your current situation, which I understand. Though I haven’t owned one, I generally consider that Outlaw makes a good product, especially at their price points, which is to say you are comparing two good amps. From the specs alone you shouldn’t expect a huge difference, the 50 watt increase in power only converts to about a 1dB increase in SPL, which is generally considered the smallest interval the human ear can hear. I would say that the working amp will always sound better than the broken one.
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Post by DavidR on Aug 3, 2021 12:44:03 GMT -5
All I can see from the pictures online is a circuit breaker. Doubt they would also include a fuse.
Did you check the small toggle switch position for Balanced cables vs RCA ?
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Post by creimes on Aug 3, 2021 13:20:22 GMT -5
All I can see from the pictures online is a circuit breaker. Doubt they would also include a fuse. Did you check the small toggle switch position for Balanced cables vs RCA ? He mentioned that he had zero power to the amps, no LED lights so I'd guess the input switches wouldn't matter Chad
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Post by DavidR on Aug 3, 2021 14:18:27 GMT -5
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 4, 2021 7:24:33 GMT -5
As a side question that seems stupid (and great for this particular forum's title): Why is it that the sound now is so much better and clearer when I have connected my old Outlaw Audio 5-channel amps after these 2 Emotiva ones died? The Outlaws seem to indicate about 150 watts into the 4-ohm speakers from Emotiva that I have. While the Emotiva amps seem to indicate 200 watts into 8 ohms (so more into 4 ohms). Is the Outlaw amp design better for reproducing audio? Certainly cheaper. :-) This seems a loaded question as you’re frustrated with your current situation, which I understand. Though I haven’t owned one, I generally consider that Outlaw makes a good product, especially at their price points, which is to say you are comparing two good amps. From the specs alone you shouldn’t expect a huge difference, the 50 watt increase in power only converts to about a 1dB increase in SPL, which is generally considered the smallest interval the human ear can hear. I would say that the working amp will always sound better than the broken one. I really liked your comment. Thanks for the chuckle...always good to laugh. The other difference I notice is that now the pre-amp "volume" has to be at -14 where with the Emotiva amps it was at -22 for my listening level. Would this difference confirm that the Emotiva amps were indeed providing more power to the speakers? Or is this difference not related? Thanks.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 4, 2021 7:26:02 GMT -5
All I can see from the pictures online is a circuit breaker. Doubt they would also include a fuse. Did you check the small toggle switch position for Balanced cables vs RCA ? Thank you, sir. I do see all those switches set to balanced / XLR. But, the front light around the power button does not come on, so I think it is a dead power supply on both units.
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Post by DavidR on Aug 4, 2021 8:33:14 GMT -5
Any lightning storms at the the time they both quit?
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,914
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 4, 2021 9:17:52 GMT -5
All I can see from the pictures online is a circuit breaker. Doubt they would also include a fuse. Did you check the small toggle switch position for Balanced cables vs RCA ? Thank you, sir. I do see all those switches set to balanced / XLR. But, the front light around the power button does not come on, so I think it is a dead power supply on both units. What's the plan? Send them to Emotiva for repair? It sounds like there was some sort of power surge that caused this issue....
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,966
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Post by KeithL on Aug 4, 2021 9:55:01 GMT -5
What you're talking about - where the Volume control is set for a given output level - refers to GAIN. Gain has nothing to do with output power - as long as you are able to drive your amplifier to full power "before the Volume knob hits the top of its range". (The output power of the amp determines how loudly it will play without distorting... regardless of where the Volume control happens to be set at the time.)
Most consumer power amps have a gain of somewhere between 29 dB and 32 dB - but there is no real standard. Although technically there are tiny trade-offs it's really just a matter of choice on the part of whoever designed the amp.
This seems a loaded question as you’re frustrated with your current situation, which I understand. Though I haven’t owned one, I generally consider that Outlaw makes a good product, especially at their price points, which is to say you are comparing two good amps. From the specs alone you shouldn’t expect a huge difference, the 50 watt increase in power only converts to about a 1dB increase in SPL, which is generally considered the smallest interval the human ear can hear. I would say that the working amp will always sound better than the broken one. I really liked your comment. Thanks for the chuckle...always good to laugh. The other difference I notice is that now the pre-amp "volume" has to be at -14 where with the Emotiva amps it was at -22 for my listening level. Would this difference confirm that the Emotiva amps were indeed providing more power to the speakers? Or is this difference not related? Thanks.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 4, 2021 10:52:35 GMT -5
What you're talking about - where the Volume control is set for a given output level - refers to GAIN. Gain has nothing to do with output power - as long as you are able to drive your amplifier to full power "before the Volume knob hits the top of its range". (The output power of the amp determines how loudly it will play without distorting... regardless of where the Volume control happens to be set at the time.)
Most consumer power amps have a gain of somewhere between 29 dB and 32 dB - but there is no real standard. Although technically there are tiny trade-offs it's really just a matter of choice on the part of whoever designed the amp.
I really liked your comment. Thanks for the chuckle...always good to laugh. The other difference I notice is that now the pre-amp "volume" has to be at -14 where with the Emotiva amps it was at -22 for my listening level. Would this difference confirm that the Emotiva amps were indeed providing more power to the speakers? Or is this difference not related? Thanks. That’s it! I had plenty of source material in the old days where that knob was virtually pegged and sounding great and distortion free, because the copy source material was rendered at such a low level it needed a serious boost from the volume just to play at civilized level. My amps back then were WAY too big so it was critical not to forget for a moment where that knob was or the session would end with new speakers
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 4, 2021 15:24:12 GMT -5
Any lightning storms at the the time they both quit? Yes. There was a loud thunder close by, which prompted me to quickly turn off the Panamax units in both rooms. Unfortunately, I do not know if the standby lights were still on when I cut the power to the Emotiva amps.
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 4, 2021 15:25:30 GMT -5
Thank you, sir. I do see all those switches set to balanced / XLR. But, the front light around the power button does not come on, so I think it is a dead power supply on both units. What's the plan? Send them to Emotiva for repair? It sounds like there was some sort of power surge that caused this issue.... Yes. The plan is to send one back at a time. The 7-channel one is there now. Not sure what they will do to repair it.
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Post by codyjenkins on Aug 4, 2021 19:17:26 GMT -5
Both XPA's worked, then next day they don't, THAT doesn't make any sense. I would be looking at the Panamax MR4300 as the cause- maximum current rating: 15 amps. If both amps failed, I would question if the Panamax, with everything connected, caused a current starvation (brown out). I don't own Gen 3 amps with the new power supply design, so I can't tell you what to check, sorry. My recommendation to everyone is two dedicated, isolated 20 amp circuits to your A/V system. Or one 20 amp circuit just for amplifiers and one 15 amp circuit for other electronics. I NEVER run everything off one circuit. Why? 30 yrs as an electronics field service tech, I saw line power cause P.S. failure too many times. I'm not a Panamax fan, there are better options for high current draw loads. (no arrows or attacks, pls. My opinion) I prefer Brick Wall products. Sorry to hear your amps failed just in time for the weekend- that sux. I think it's the crappy power supplies in this version of the Emotiva amps. But, one is on the way to them, so we should find out soon enough what failed. Very happy with the performance of my XPA3 Gen 3. Purchased the year they were released, Used daily. Zero issues.
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