Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 11:51:53 GMT -5
Excluding random failures LEDs themselves last a very long time... and that's the number you usually see quoted.
You also need to understand how statistics work... When I moved into my new home I purchased about a dozen Cree LED bulbs for all the lamps. Since then I've replaced four of them.
That means that, after about seven years of use, about 2/3 of the original bulbs are still working.
That is FAR better than I would have hoped for with incandescent or CFL bulbs. And each of those LED bulbs uses about 1/5 as much power as an equivalent incandescent bulb.
It's also worth noting that LED bulbs have had HUGH improvements since they were originally introduced.
The modern ones produce much nicer smoother light, run cooler, last longer, and come in an amazing variety of styles. (If anything I would say that it is Compact Fluorescent bulbs that really failed to live up to the hype.)
My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. I've been receiving my LED bulbs for free up until this point from our power company. I had a dozen left over and gone through them all now replacing the LED bulbs included w/ the house purchased in Nov 2019. Just the other night I had to replace the garage light which comes on w/ the opener. The light is only on for a minute or so after operation. I've replaced the garage lightbulb at least four times already. That bulb probably is subjected to more on and offs then any other bulb in the house. I'll put dimmable LEDS in there as a test bed. I'm going to try only purchasing "dimmable" bulbs and see whether that might result in more reliability. I rarely use lightbulbs so when I say I'm replacing bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours a hundred hours is a stretch. I mean during the summer it's light out here in Idaho a little while after 10pm. Compact fluorescent, well, if the information I have is correct they were once mandated by government and the gases are highly cancerous if the bulbs break. I think LED is the way to go ..... looks like they only need a more reliable SMPS power supply! No thanks, all statistical credibility has been lost in my eyes during the CV pandemic. And before someone says don't throw the baby out with the bathwater I'm just say'n there's no baby in that filthy water.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 18, 2021 12:19:39 GMT -5
I remember some very early LED bulbs that were very unreliable... They also tended to have odd and rather unpleasant color spectra.
There is no such thing as a simple white LED.
Other than by using some very exotic materials it is impossible to have s single LED chip emit white light - which is actually comprised of multiple colors.
It is actually possible to make a "tri-color RGB LED" and then dial in equal amounts of each color to get white light. Some of the bulbs you see where you can change the color work that way.
However most "white LED bulbs" contain an ultraviolet LED with a blob of white phosphor stuck on top of it. The LED illuminates the phosphor with UV light, causing it to fluoresce, and emit whatever color of light it has been formulated to. Most of the ones with fake filaments actually have a long thin row of LED chips with a stripe of phosphor painted over it.
(This is very much the way fluorescent bulbs work - where the UV light is generated by an electrical current flowing through mercury vapor.) The phosphor absorbs most of the UV light, emits a nice steady light of the desired color, and is actually slow enough to filter out most residual 60 Hz flicker as well.
In the original LED bulbs this wasn't done very well, often resulting in uneven light, blue fringes around the light emitted by the bulb, and a tendency for things to fluoresce from the UV leakage.
The technology has improved dramatically since then.
Your information about compact fluorescent bulbs is incorrect though... Actual fluorescent bulbs use mercury vapor as well as some rather toxic phosphors... Compact Fluorescent bulbs are supposed to be considerably safer... although they still contain a small amount of mercury. The government never required CFLs... but they did start a mandatory phase-out of popular sizes of incandescent bulbs... (I'm pretty sure that didn't happen until LED bulbs were available.)
CFL bulbs do have their problems though... Including a tendency to get extremely hot, and even actually catch fire, when they fail. (Normal CFL bulbs actually have emitter filaments inside the ends that glow orange hot - like the cathode in a vacuum tube.)
Excluding random failures LEDs themselves last a very long time... and that's the number you usually see quoted. You also need to understand how statistics work... When I moved into my new home I purchased about a dozen Cree LED bulbs for all the lamps. Since then I've replaced four of them.
That means that, after about seven years of use, about 2/3 of the original bulbs are still working.
That is FAR better than I would have hoped for with incandescent or CFL bulbs. And each of those LED bulbs uses about 1/5 as much power as an equivalent incandescent bulb. It's also worth noting that LED bulbs have had HUGH improvements since they were originally introduced.
The modern ones produce much nicer smoother light, run cooler, last longer, and come in an amazing variety of styles. (If anything I would say that it is Compact Fluorescent bulbs that really failed to live up to the hype.)
I've been receiving my LED bulbs for free up until this point from our power company. I had a dozen left over and gone through them all now replacing the LED bulbs included w/ the house purchased in Nov 2019. Just the other night I had to replace the garage light which comes on w/ the opener. The light is only on for a minute or so after operation. I've replaced the garage lightbulb at least four times already. That bulb probably is subjected to more on and offs then any other bulb in the house. I'll put dimmable LEDS in there as a test bed. I'm going to try only purchasing "dimmable" bulbs and see whether that might result in more reliability. I rarely use lightbulbs so when I say I'm replacing bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours a hundred hours is a stretch. I mean during the summer it's light out here in Idaho a little while after 10pm. Compact fluorescent, well, if the information I have is correct they were once mandated by government and the gases are highly cancerous if the bulbs break. I think LED is the way to go ..... looks like they only need a more reliable SMPS power supply! No thanks, all statistical credibility has been lost in my eyes during the CV pandemic. And before someone says don't throw the baby out with the bathwater I'm just say'n there's no baby in that filthy water.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 12:27:31 GMT -5
[/quote]Just the other night I had to replace the garage light which comes on w/ the opener. The light is only on for a minute or so after operation. I've replaced the garage lightbulb at least four times already. That bulb probably is subjected to more on and offs then any other bulb in the house. I'll put dimmable LEDS in there as a test bed. I'm going to try only purchasing "dimmable" bulbs and see whether that might result in more reliability. I rarely use lightbulbs so when I say I'm replacing bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours a hundred hours is a stretch. I mean during the summer it's light out here in Idaho a little while after 10pm.
Garage lights are a different story, the ones in the opener. For incandesents you had to buy specially made bulbs (heavy duty) for the opener. The problem is that vibrations occur when you open and close the garage door. I currently have a set of FEIT LED bulbs in mine from Costco and they have been in for about two years now. They are still working.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 18, 2021 12:41:06 GMT -5
The only problem I had with the LED conversion was the color rendering and physical size for a couple of fixtures. I put FEITs in the kitchen and they were way too warm. Not to waste I “ transplanted” them into my dual garage openers. Working great there. The garage was sort of my favorite lighting task. I bought a pair of LEDS with all those little elements 360 around the outside, giving me GREAT wall wash of light without installing typical overhead task lighting. Use 27 watts and are equivalent to a 250 bulb EACH! I also put in a 3 way dimmer for those. Now it’s like BROADWAY In there when needed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 12:44:41 GMT -5
Just the other night I had to replace the garage light which comes on w/ the opener. The light is only on for a minute or so after operation. I've replaced the garage lightbulb at least four times already. That bulb probably is subjected to more on and offs then any other bulb in the house. I'll put dimmable LEDS in there as a test bed. I'm going to try only purchasing "dimmable" bulbs and see whether that might result in more reliability. I rarely use lightbulbs so when I say I'm replacing bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours a hundred hours is a stretch. I mean during the summer it's light out here in Idaho a little while after 10pm. Garage lights are a different story, the ones in the opener. For incandesents you had to buy specially made bulbs (heavy duty) for the opener. The problem is that vibrations occur when you open and close the garage door. I currently have a set of FEIT LED bulbs in mine from Costco and they have been in for about two years now. They are still working. [/quote] First, ya really screwed up your post's formatting. I dunno about ya Dude, my brother cawgijoe - you're a light in a dark world! Much appreciate you sharing your knowledge. @keithl Hey bro have the SMPS of Emotiva amps been tested for not only low voltage but also serious vibration which occur in high SPL systems? I'm kidding brother! Just had to poke at ya! Cawgijoe, I'll take your advice and look for appropriate bulbs for my screwdrive garage door opener.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 12:48:16 GMT -5
The only problem I had with the LED conversion was the color rendering and physical size for a couple of fixtures. I put FEITs in the kitchen and they were way too warm. Not to waste I “ transplanted” them into my dual garage openers. Working great there. The garage was sort of my favorite lighting task. I bought a pair of LEDS with all those little elements 360 around the outside, giving me GREAT wall wash of light without installing typical overhead task lighting. Use 27 watts and are equivalent to a 250 bulb EACH! I also put in a 3 way dimmer for those. Now it’s like BROADWAY In there when needed I can see 405x5 on Broadway now. Walking the catwalk with pickle stabber high heels climbing a tree while wearing butterfly wings to appear on some glossy Italian page of a fashion magazine. You go! With hand on hip lemme see you snap your fingers! In all seriousness ya know you're my mostest favorite 405x5 bro? You're marvelous!
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 13:00:32 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 18, 2021 13:15:03 GMT -5
The only problem I had with the LED conversion was the color rendering and physical size for a couple of fixtures. I put FEITs in the kitchen and they were way too warm. Not to waste I “ transplanted” them into my dual garage openers. Working great there. The garage was sort of my favorite lighting task. I bought a pair of LEDS with all those little elements 360 around the outside, giving me GREAT wall wash of light without installing typical overhead task lighting. Use 27 watts and are equivalent to a 250 bulb EACH! I also put in a 3 way dimmer for those. Now it’s like BROADWAY In there when needed I can see 405x5 on Broadway now. Walking the catwalk with pickle stabber high heels climbing a tree while wearing butterfly wings to appear on some glossy Italian page of a fashion magazine. You go! With hand on hip lemme see you snap your fingers! In all seriousness ya know you're my mostest favorite 405x5 bro? You're marvelous! No sh**!😮…didn’t realize anyone here saw the show!
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 18, 2021 13:21:51 GMT -5
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Post by DavidR on Aug 18, 2021 14:43:36 GMT -5
Get one of these brown out or power failure balls. If you come home from vacation and it is down, then you best go around the house and check all your SMPS powered devices. View AttachmentMy cats would punt that ball across the floor in no time. But I think that's really neat! Cats prove that the earth is not flat. If it was then everything on earth might be knocked off by now. Only cat owners would understand
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 19, 2021 13:58:12 GMT -5
Ya, I don't know what it is but living in a new house for a year and half I've replaced a dozen LED bulbs thus far. None of the bulbs are on a rheostat they are either on or off. But I'm wondering if SMPS fail from low voltage drops by simply turning the light switch off? I think a purely scientific way of testing the reliability of SMPS power supplies in such conditions might be to batch test a bunch of them and supply low voltage. I realize LED should either have enough voltage to work or not work but wow a dozen brand new bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours that are supposed to last tens of thousands of hours. Something is failing in LEDs and my guess is the SMPS power supply as the culprit. But again, that's my guess - I was just curious and thought to ask. Glad your repaired items were not damaged by the brown out. I've been fortunate despite several lightening storms this year to experience no electronic failures other than LED/SMPS bulbs. My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. Thanks for this. I have been wondering why I have had to replace about 4 of my LED lights in the kitchen in the past 4 years (when they claim such a long lifespan). I guess they fail even when they are off? Or as you wrote, they really don't last thousands of hours.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 19, 2021 14:28:04 GMT -5
My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. Thanks for this. I have been wondering why I have had to replace about 4 of my LED lights in the kitchen in the past 4 years (when they claim such a long lifespan). I guess they fail even when they are off? Or as you wrote, they really don't last thousands of hours. I believe in a lab under ideal situations they would last as they claim. When you buy the bulb make sure it's meant for where you are putting it. Some cannot be put in an enclosed fixture or they will run hot and die. others don't like moisture. So read the label and buy for the correct purpose and location. I also think (and I may be wrong) that dimmable bulbs are engineered to survive power fluctuations more than non-dimmable.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 19, 2021 15:19:04 GMT -5
Thanks for this. I have been wondering why I have had to replace about 4 of my LED lights in the kitchen in the past 4 years (when they claim such a long lifespan). I guess they fail even when they are off? Or as you wrote, they really don't last thousands of hours. I believe in a lab under ideal situations they would last as they claim. When you buy the bulb make sure it's meant for where you are putting it. Some cannot be put in an enclosed fixture or they will run hot and die. others don't like moisture. So read the label and buy for the correct purpose and location. I also think (and I may be wrong) that dimmable bulbs are engineered to survive power fluctuations more than non-dimmable. All true! One of those things the LED did was to make me realize the house was bigger than I thought it was……meaning much more thought going into each room to make the application effective with NO compromise regarding the quality of the light. I should create a house file for this stuff as a guide line for when the inevitable happens. That way I don’t need to open everything up to remember what I put in there to begin with.
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