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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 23:41:34 GMT -5
SMPS suck, well, at least in LED light bulbs. Seems like I replace more than I did w/ incandescent. I'm curious what kills SMPS power supplies most? - Brown outs?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 18, 2021 0:30:39 GMT -5
Since there’s some hyperbole here … I’ll add ‘in use’ data. XPA-7 G3 approximately 2 years in service. Average voltage according to Sense, 124VAC. Whole house surge suppressor, plus dedicated surge suppressor on 20A AV circuit. In use a few hours or more each day, no issues. A couple (1 or 2) PG&E power outages during fire season (did not run any audio/HT gear while on generator). No LED problems noticed, I leave the rear switch up, and power on via triggers from the RMC-1.
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Post by mgbpuff on Aug 18, 2021 7:27:02 GMT -5
Another misguided response from someone who “should just go away”. Russ Hmm! Is this not a real direct personal attack?
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 18, 2021 7:36:20 GMT -5
SMPS suck, well, at least in LED light bulbs. Seems like I replace more than I did w/ incandescent. I'm curious what kills SMPS power supplies most? - Brown outs? From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?"
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 7:45:46 GMT -5
SMPS suck, well, at least in LED light bulbs. Seems like I replace more than I did w/ incandescent. I'm curious what kills SMPS power supplies most? - Brown outs? From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?" Sounds like maybe it's time to move....
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Post by cubanjimbo on Aug 18, 2021 7:47:41 GMT -5
From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?" Sounds like maybe it's time to move.... Yes, I had the same thought. Those were happening every day for about 4 days---different times of the day. I thought something was wrong with my power connection. But, it has been stable for almost a week, so must have been the heat and power demand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 7:56:43 GMT -5
SMPS suck, well, at least in LED light bulbs. Seems like I replace more than I did w/ incandescent. I'm curious what kills SMPS power supplies most? - Brown outs? From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?" Ya, I don't know what it is but living in a new house for a year and half I've replaced a dozen LED bulbs thus far. None of the bulbs are on a rheostat they are either on or off. But I'm wondering if SMPS fail from low voltage drops by simply turning the light switch off? I think a purely scientific way of testing the reliability of SMPS power supplies in such conditions might be to batch test a bunch of them and supply low voltage. I realize LED should either have enough voltage to work or not work but wow a dozen brand new bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours that are supposed to last tens of thousands of hours. Something is failing in LEDs and my guess is the SMPS power supply as the culprit. But again, that's my guess - I was just curious and thought to ask. Glad your repaired items were not damaged by the brown out. I've been fortunate despite several lightening storms this year to experience no electronic failures other than LED/SMPS bulbs.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 18, 2021 8:08:54 GMT -5
……Two things I would do: The amplifiers are perfectly restored. I would pack them up and sell NOW and replace with conventional power supplied amps. Plug the replacement amps. Wall direct and unplug when the needs dictate….. As it stands now, the scenario is set for the same thing to occur all over again.
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Post by mgbpuff on Aug 18, 2021 8:19:17 GMT -5
Get one of these brown out or power failure balls. If you come home from vacation and it is down, then you best go around the house and check all your SMPS powered devices.
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Post by DavidR on Aug 18, 2021 9:03:35 GMT -5
Not an official report, but then maybe that doesn’t matter? It does matter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 10:08:59 GMT -5
Get one of these brown out or power failure balls. If you come home from vacation and it is down, then you best go around the house and check all your SMPS powered devices. View AttachmentMy cats would punt that ball across the floor in no time. But I think that's really neat! Cats prove that the earth is not flat. If it was then everything on earth might be knocked off by now.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 10:12:42 GMT -5
From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?" Ya, I don't know what it is but living in a new house for a year and half I've replaced a dozen LED bulbs thus far. None of the bulbs are on a rheostat they are either on or off. But I'm wondering if SMPS fail from low voltage drops by simply turning the light switch off? I think a purely scientific way of testing the reliability of SMPS power supplies in such conditions might be to batch test a bunch of them and supply low voltage. I realize LED should either have enough voltage to work or not work but wow a dozen brand new bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours that are supposed to last tens of thousands of hours. Something is failing in LEDs and my guess is the SMPS power supply as the culprit. But again, that's my guess - I was just curious and thought to ask. Glad your repaired items were not damaged by the brown out. I've been fortunate despite several lightening storms this year to experience no electronic failures other than LED/SMPS bulbs. My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 10:17:57 GMT -5
Ya, I don't know what it is but living in a new house for a year and half I've replaced a dozen LED bulbs thus far. None of the bulbs are on a rheostat they are either on or off. But I'm wondering if SMPS fail from low voltage drops by simply turning the light switch off? I think a purely scientific way of testing the reliability of SMPS power supplies in such conditions might be to batch test a bunch of them and supply low voltage. I realize LED should either have enough voltage to work or not work but wow a dozen brand new bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours that are supposed to last tens of thousands of hours. Something is failing in LEDs and my guess is the SMPS power supply as the culprit. But again, that's my guess - I was just curious and thought to ask. Glad your repaired items were not damaged by the brown out. I've been fortunate despite several lightening storms this year to experience no electronic failures other than LED/SMPS bulbs. My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. If convenient may I inquire on the make and model of your LED bulbs? I actually need to purchase them now and well if you have a link to Amazon for your particular models I'm willing to give them a shot. The only LEDs I've had reliability with thus far are these LED "vintage" or cosmetic bulbs which are pretty expensive. Ya know the LED that look like incandescent that were supposed to be banned by Obama? That fell through though for FYI on the last day the ban was to go into effect when Trump overturned the ban. No way I want to pay 10 bucks for every light bulb throughout the house though! Note: these are "dimmable" .......
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 10:37:22 GMT -5
My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. If convenient may I inquire on the make and model of your LED bulbs? I actually need to purchase them now and well if you have a link to Amazon for your particular models I'm willing to give them a shot. The only LEDs I've had reliability with thus far are these LED "vintage" or cosmetic bulbs which are pretty expensive. Ya know the LED that look like incandescent that were supposed to be banned by Obama? That fell through though for FYI on the last day the ban was to go into effect when Trump overturned the ban. No way I want to pay 10 bucks for every light bulb throughout the house though! Note: these are "dimmable" ....... I've had luck with several brands....however the Cree bulbs (Home Depot) have lasted. A couple of the originals (which were expensive failed in the enclosed fixtures), I called them and they sent me new bulbs, later versions, free of charge and I didn't have to send them any proof or the bulbs back! They just took my word. The recent ones are cheaper and tend to come in multi packs. I have three 75w bulbs outdoors, on timers, running from dawn to dusk seven days a week, going on five years now. I've also purchased ones from Costco and they seem ok....plus it's Costco...if I feel they fail early, I can return them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 10:41:20 GMT -5
If convenient may I inquire on the make and model of your LED bulbs? I actually need to purchase them now and well if you have a link to Amazon for your particular models I'm willing to give them a shot. The only LEDs I've had reliability with thus far are these LED "vintage" or cosmetic bulbs which are pretty expensive. Ya know the LED that look like incandescent that were supposed to be banned by Obama? That fell through though for FYI on the last day the ban was to go into effect when Trump overturned the ban. No way I want to pay 10 bucks for every light bulb throughout the house though! Note: these are "dimmable" ....... I've had luck with several brands....however the Cree bulbs (Home Depot) have lasted. A couple of the originals (which were expensive failed in the enclosed fixtures), I called them and they sent me new bulbs, later versions, free of charge and I didn't have to send them any proof or the bulbs back! They just took my word. The recent ones are cheaper and tend to come in multi packs. I have three 75w bulbs outdoors, on timers, running from dawn to dusk seven days a week, going on five years now. I've also purchased ones from Costco and they seem ok....plus it's Costco...if I feel they fail early, I can return them. Thanks bro. If I can find "dimmable" LED for cheap I might try that route then to satisfy my curiosity about voltage drops.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2021 10:42:12 GMT -5
I've had luck with several brands....however the Cree bulbs (Home Depot) have lasted. A couple of the originals (which were expensive failed in the enclosed fixtures), I called them and they sent me new bulbs, later versions, free of charge and I didn't have to send them any proof or the bulbs back! They just took my word. The recent ones are cheaper and tend to come in multi packs. I have three 75w bulbs outdoors, on timers, running from dawn to dusk seven days a week, going on five years now. I've also purchased ones from Costco and they seem ok....plus it's Costco...if I feel they fail early, I can return them. Thanks bro. If I can find "dimmable" LED for cheap I might try that route then to satisfy my curiosity about voltage drops. Yes...I always make sure they are dimmable.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 10:43:13 GMT -5
Thanks bro. If I can find "dimmable" LED for cheap I might try that route then to satisfy my curiosity about voltage drops. Yes...I always make sure they are dimmable..... Ah! Seems we now have something to verify/pursue!
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 18, 2021 11:18:48 GMT -5
I should point out that, one one hand, most modern LED bulbs will operate over a relatively wide voltage range, and actually will withstand significant power surges. However they do contain a really tiny, simple, cheap SMPS... And, in many cases, they are sealed, so provide no ventilation whatsoever... (I have no idea if the specific SMPS used in particular bulbs are or are not sensitive to low voltage conditions.)
I've had relatively good luck with the two dozen "original" Cree bulbs I purchased (the ones with the rubber-coated glass globes)... Although I've had a few burn out, and two of them have had the glass globe come loose, which exposed live electrical components inside.
The new version of the Cree bulbs now has a plastic globe, which seems more securely fastened together, and ventilation holes, and seems to be somewhat better designed. (The originals actually had small cooling fins around their epoxy base and became quite warm in continuous operation.)
In general most SMPS are designed to operate from their recommended range of voltages... often "100 VAC - 240 VAC".
Forcing a SMPS to operate from an excessively LOW voltage, especially at high power, for long periods of time, is problematic for some designs. (As a common example... some USB devices which use an SMPS will overheat if connected to a USB port with INSUFFICIENT current capability...) However that depends on the particular design and situation.
To be quite honest we haven't actually ever seen the SMPS we use in our Gen3 amps fail under brown-out conditions. However, since it is theoretically possible, that was really just a guess as to what might have been the cause in this particular case. It's also worth mentioning that many "surge protectors" actually allow the line voltage to rise substantially high before triggering to limit it... And, likewise, many surge protectors are "sacrificial", which is a technical way of saying that "they eventually wear out and stop working after repeated heavy hits - and need to be replaced". (MOVs, which are what most common surge protectors use, actually only provide limited protection, and do fail or wear out after repeated surges.)
SMPS suck, well, at least in LED light bulbs. Seems like I replace more than I did w/ incandescent. I'm curious what kills SMPS power supplies most? - Brown outs? From my experience so far, they do seem to be more sensitive to those situations. What's really funny about this adventure is that the SAME day I got one of the amps back after repair, I was watching a show and BOOM---Georgia Power had a brown out! I just thought "Seriously! I can't get ONE day of use with this thing?"
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 18, 2021 11:28:10 GMT -5
Excluding random failures LEDs themselves last a very long time... and that's the number you usually see quoted.
You also need to understand how statistics work... When I moved into my new home I purchased about a dozen Cree LED bulbs for all the lamps. Since then I've replaced four of them.
That means that, after about seven years of use, about 2/3 of the original bulbs are still working.
That is FAR better than I would have hoped for with incandescent or CFL bulbs. And each of those LED bulbs uses about 1/5 as much power as an equivalent incandescent bulb.
It's also worth noting that LED bulbs have had HUGH improvements since they were originally introduced.
The modern ones produce much nicer smoother light, run cooler, last longer, and come in an amazing variety of styles. (If anything I would say that it is Compact Fluorescent bulbs that really failed to live up to the hype.)
Ya, I don't know what it is but living in a new house for a year and half I've replaced a dozen LED bulbs thus far. None of the bulbs are on a rheostat they are either on or off. But I'm wondering if SMPS fail from low voltage drops by simply turning the light switch off? I think a purely scientific way of testing the reliability of SMPS power supplies in such conditions might be to batch test a bunch of them and supply low voltage. I realize LED should either have enough voltage to work or not work but wow a dozen brand new bulbs w/ less than a hundred hours that are supposed to last tens of thousands of hours. Something is failing in LEDs and my guess is the SMPS power supply as the culprit. But again, that's my guess - I was just curious and thought to ask. Glad your repaired items were not damaged by the brown out. I've been fortunate despite several lightening storms this year to experience no electronic failures other than LED/SMPS bulbs. My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Aug 18, 2021 11:38:35 GMT -5
Excluding random failures LEDs themselves last a very long time... and that's the number you usually see quoted.
You also need to understand how statistics work... When I moved into my new home I purchased about a dozen Cree LED bulbs for all the lamps. Since then I've replaced four of them.
That means that, after about seven years of use, about 2/3 of the original bulbs are still working.
That is FAR better than I would have hoped for with incandescent or CFL bulbs. And each of those LED bulbs uses about 1/5 as much power as an equivalent incandescent bulb.
It's also worth noting that LED bulbs have had HUGH improvements since they were originally introduced.
The modern ones produce much nicer smoother light, run cooler, last longer, and come in an amazing variety of styles. (If anything I would say that it is Compact Fluorescent bulbs that really failed to live up to the hype.)
My whole house has been converted to LED including LIFX bulbs is specific locations. I've had to replace over time about three bulbs total and these were early editions. I've also replaced bulbs where technology over the years has improved the bulb. The ones I replaced were in enclosed fixtures and overheated. I check the labels carefully now. Oh, I did replace several outdoor bulbs that went after five years of all night use, every night, on a timer. I also think that the "tens of thousands" of hours is a sales gimmick, or maybe in "ideal environments". My experience has been different, I guess. Just my .02. And then there’s that one incandescent bulb that has lasted 20+ years! 🤯
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