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Post by hsamwel on Oct 20, 2024 8:47:49 GMT -5
Yes. But I don't know what is meant by "enhanced ATMOS". I don't know. From what I've read, this is a source audio and system setup dependent situation. Reading through the Marantz AV10 manual shows all sorts of caveats about what's available under which conditions. It's a mess to try to figure out in print what's going to "sound good" for any one system setup. Having more or fewer speakers changes what is possible. A short quote from Marantz for one situation, not upmixing per se', but just to show that not all conditions are supported so results will vary: " Auro 3D does not support a Dolby Atmos speaker configuration using Top Front, Top Middle or Top Rear speakers. However, it is possible to support both an Auro 3D and Dolby Atmos application by adding Front Height and Rear Height speakers to a 5.1 configuration." From what I can find, there is no blanket YES to allowing one audio format to be upmixed by the other's upmixer. It depends. LFE2? What I'd like to know, and I've been searching for a long time about it, is, what's up with dtsX Pro and LFE2? It's been written as LFE2, LFE .2, etc, but I really can't find any info on what this means. dts has scrubbed a lot of info from their web site, so now it's just a bunch of pictures and minimal text, no "support" section or white papers and such. Are there really two discrete LFE channels in dtsX Pro? (I don't think so, but can't prove it.) Reading through the Marantz AV10 manual only shows LFE as being .1, not .2 or LFE2. So I'm left thinking that the dtsX Pro diagrams showing LFE1 and LFE2 are simply denoting that there are two subwoofers being shown for example, and not two discrete channels. Anyone with info about this, please share. I scoured the intertubes and there is no reference to "Enhanced Atmos" in any context ... only IMAX Enhanced. To the second question, there had been - at the time the G3P was introduced - a specific requirement by both Dolby and DTX that processors must prohibit upmix to each from the other. This restriction was lifted 2-3 years ago but was still enforced in our processors. I was just wondering if the restriction was lifted for + models. I understand there would be some speaker definition mismatches. I have always understood this as a ”Emotiva” wording. Enhanced Atmos is simply the latest code for support of 11.1.8 and the new upmixing to all speakers (wides mostly) support. The prohibit is simply ”bad” coding on Emotivas part. They simply coded the separation into all their upmixing and then had a very hard job of ”uncoding” this. Denon/Marantz simply had both separated all the time and put a simple block on which formats was allowed when Dolby required it. That’s why they reacted so quickly when the restriction was removed. |
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Post by hsamwel on Oct 20, 2024 8:56:16 GMT -5
Thanks ttocs and Paul. Will DTS:X Pro or Enhanced Atmos upmix more content to the height speakers, compared to existing DTS:X and Atmos, in an 11.x setup (specifically my 7.2.4)? I am not interested in expansion, just trying to learn whether the new codecs will send more content to my heights. Thanks gentlemen! I don't know what DTS:X Pro or Enhanced Atmos will offer for height channels. So far, I don't like the results of upmixing. I do think that a 7.2.4 (11.2) dtsX style layout is an ideal high position count compromise for HT. Atleast for Atmos we know. 10 is the final amount of the format. Front height, top front, top middle, top rear and rear height. With the new Atmos code 8 of these 10 will be available at the same time. DTS:X Pro is a little harder.. They have alot more ”height” speakers to support. This depends on Emotiva really. The advantage of DST:X Pro is that it makes use of whatever is there. It’s not as ridgid as Atmos. This also depends alot on Emotiva coding and which speaker placements coresponds to the Atmos layout. Which I still think they will have as their main layout. DTS:X Pro would support a lot of further height speakers though. Like Center front height, Center rear height and voice of god type of middle top single speaker |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 20, 2024 9:23:43 GMT -5
I don't know what DTS:X Pro or Enhanced Atmos will offer for height channels. So far, I don't like the results of upmixing. I do think that a 7.2.4 (11.2) dtsX style layout is an ideal high position count compromise for HT. Atleast for Atmos we know. 10 is the final amount of the format. Front height, top front, top middle, top rear and rear height. With the new Atmos code 8 of these 10 will be available at the same time. DTS:X Pro is a little harder.. They have alot more ”height” speakers to support. This depends on Emotiva really. The advantage of DST:X Pro is that it makes use of whatever is there. It’s not as ridgid as Atmos. This also depends alot on Emotiva coding and which speaker placements coresponds to the Atmos layout. Which I still think they will have as their main layout. DTS:X Pro would support a lot of further height speakers though. Like Center front height, Center rear height and voice of god type of middle top single speaker This is the capability of the RMC-1+ : emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1130267/threadThe RMC-1+ will potentially and eventually be able to handle 19.5 positions. Putting 19.5 positions in a small room is Not a +. 19 speaker positions in a small room - not including the Subs - is a recipe for confusion. A few will do it and wonder why the overall sound doesn't meet their intelligibility expectations. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 20, 2024 9:42:08 GMT -5
Normally, you have to pay the shipping costs for any trade-in - and because the price of the new one is more than $49, shipping is free for the new devices. (see shipping policy: emotiva.com/pages/shipping-policy) As I store every box for every device i still use, I'm ready to go - where are the new ones?  Imagine the mess in my storage in the cellar.  I'm just the same as you. My wife hates all these damn empty boxes but I say if you ever have to ship something back the original packaging is priceless. She just shakes her head lol. A lot of our fellow club members live in apartments in NYC. Guess whose attic contains their boxes. 😂 Russ |
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Post by hsamwel on Oct 20, 2024 11:31:45 GMT -5
Atleast for Atmos we know. 10 is the final amount of the format. Front height, top front, top middle, top rear and rear height. With the new Atmos code 8 of these 10 will be available at the same time. DTS:X Pro is a little harder.. They have alot more ”height” speakers to support. This depends on Emotiva really. The advantage of DST:X Pro is that it makes use of whatever is there. It’s not as ridgid as Atmos. This also depends alot on Emotiva coding and which speaker placements coresponds to the Atmos layout. Which I still think they will have as their main layout. DTS:X Pro would support a lot of further height speakers though. Like Center front height, Center rear height and voice of god type of middle top single speaker This is the capability of the RMC-1+ : emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1130267/threadThe RMC-1+ will potentially and eventually be able to handle 19.5 positions. Putting 19.5 positions in a small room is Not a +. 19 speaker positions in a small room - not including the Subs - is a recipe for confusion. A few will do it and wonder why the overall sound doesn't meet their intelligibility expectations. Yes, the ”Enhanced Atmos” is the support for upto 11.1.8. But you can choose from all the 10 which ones you want to use upto 8 of them. The processor will also later support more subs with arleast 5 with expansion. My hope is that they do this correctly. XMC2+ should be able to take advantage of the updated Atmos code as well. With this I mean be able to have a 7.1.8 setup for example if the user choose to. The outputs not being locked to specific positions for all outputs. I agree though that for most rooms having more than what the processor support natively is unnecessary. But there are those with small cinemas and don’t want to put down the money that Trinnov or Storm systems cost. Having a RMC1+ with support for 11.5.8 and DLBC is really cheap compared. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 20, 2024 11:38:53 GMT -5
This is the capability of the RMC-1+ : emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1130267/threadThe RMC-1+ will potentially and eventually be able to handle 19.5 positions. Putting 19.5 positions in a small room is Not a +. 19 speaker positions in a small room - not including the Subs - is a recipe for confusion. A few will do it and wonder why the overall sound doesn't meet their intelligibility expectations. Yes, the ”Enhanced Atmos” is the support for upto 11.1.8. But you can choose from all the 10 which ones you want to use upto 8 of them. The processor will also later support more subs with arleast 5 with expansion. My hope is that they do this correctly. XMC2+ should be able to take advantage of the updated Atmos code as well. With this I mean be able to have a 7.1.8 setup for example if the user choose to. The outputs not being locked to specific positions for all outputs. I agree though that for most rooms having more than what the processor support natively is unnecessary. But there are those with small cinemas and don’t want to put down the money that Trinnov or Storm systems cost. Having a RMC1+ with support for 11.5.8 and DLBC is really cheap compared. If and when Emotiva updates their 'Future of Processors' page, we may get some answers. emotiva.com/pages/future-of-processorsA couple of weeks ago, Emotiva said they would be updating the 'Future of Processors' page over the next couple of weeks. Are we there yet?  |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Oct 20, 2024 12:11:34 GMT -5
It’s a trade in not a buy back.
Just like Apple, buy the products full price, send in the trade, get the credit. Tada.
- Rich
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 20, 2024 16:25:52 GMT -5
The actual 11.1.8 atmos layout is not an option of any of the 10 atmos. It is in the dolby website pdfs. The middle tops used in 6 will now be the front or back tops for the 8.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 20, 2024 16:33:40 GMT -5
Atleast for Atmos we know. 10 is the final amount of the format. Front height, top front, top middle, top rear and rear height. With the new Atmos code 8 of these 10 will be available at the same time. DTS:X Pro is a little harder.. They have alot more ”height” speakers to support. This depends on Emotiva really. The advantage of DST:X Pro is that it makes use of whatever is there. It’s not as ridgid as Atmos. This also depends alot on Emotiva coding and which speaker placements coresponds to the Atmos layout. Which I still think they will have as their main layout. DTS:X Pro would support a lot of further height speakers though. Like Center front height, Center rear height and voice of god type of middle top single speaker This is the capability of the RMC-1+ : emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1130267/threadThe RMC-1+ will potentially and eventually be able to handle 19.5 positions. Putting 19.5 positions in a small room is Not a +. 19 speaker positions in a small room - not including the Subs - is a recipe for confusion. A few will do it and wonder why the overall sound doesn't meet their intelligibility expectations. I always assumed that we may get the best of both worlds. If intelligibility was always the number once concern in a theater room would dipoles have been recommended for so long before atmos? Now you have the ability for more speakers for a diffuse sound field while also maintaining object accuracy. Time will tell if it adds or takes away immersion. The obvious elephant in the room to 11.1.8 diffusion is if native atmos would even have information for the extra speakers unless the mix has plenty of objects. I wish they allowed an upmixing of the bed layer and discrete playback for objects. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 20, 2024 16:43:43 GMT -5
It’s a trade in not a buy back. Just like Apple, buy the products full price, send in the trade, get the credit. Tada. - Rich We will see what happens. I liked the first option better - buy full, send in, get a refund.
it's a bit more difficult for me, as I live in Switzerland, not part of the EU - and probably pay taxes and customs twice, and beside several weeks with no device - then I'm not so sure if I really want that.
still some months to go as I don't expect anything ready in Europe by End of 2024. US First ;-)
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lgjr
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by lgjr on Oct 20, 2024 17:03:18 GMT -5
What I'd like to know is who gets to upgrade first? Will it be by purchase date or first come first served.
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 20, 2024 18:43:57 GMT -5
This is the capability of the RMC-1+ : emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1130267/threadThe RMC-1+ will potentially and eventually be able to handle 19.5 positions. Putting 19.5 positions in a small room is Not a +. 19 speaker positions in a small room - not including the Subs - is a recipe for confusion. A few will do it and wonder why the overall sound doesn't meet their intelligibility expectations. I always assumed that we may get the best of both worlds. If intelligibility was always the number once concern in a theater room would dipoles have been recommended for so long before atmos? Now you have the ability for more speakers for a diffuse sound field while also maintaining object accuracy. Time will tell if it adds or takes away immersion. The obvious elephant in the room to 11.1.8 diffusion is if native atmos would even have information for the extra speakers unless the mix has plenty of objects. I wish they allowed an upmixing of the bed layer and discrete playback for objects. There is no elephant in the room. You will potentially and eventually be able to play with 19.5 positions with an RMC-1+. If you need more, the RMC-1+ is not for you. I will continue to chose intelligibility as my number one concern, and the RMC-1+ will meet my needs with room to spare.  HT systems will never get it right for all formats: 1. ATMOS 2. DTS-X 3. AURO 4. IMAX 5. Sony 360 How many are fully compatible? How many HT users will have multiple position setups that comply will all standards? Most people will pick a compromise, whether they do it purposely or ignorantly. Most people won't care enough, nor want to spend the money for multiple setups. This Industry created confusion is a feature, not a flaw. |
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 20, 2024 19:00:54 GMT -5
I always assumed that we may get the best of both worlds. If intelligibility was always the number once concern in a theater room would dipoles have been recommended for so long before atmos? Now you have the ability for more speakers for a diffuse sound field while also maintaining object accuracy. Time will tell if it adds or takes away immersion. The obvious elephant in the room to 11.1.8 diffusion is if native atmos would even have information for the extra speakers unless the mix has plenty of objects. I wish they allowed an upmixing of the bed layer and discrete playback for objects. There is no elephant in the room. You will potentially and eventually be able to play with 19.5 positions with an RMC-1+. If you need more, the RMC-1+ is not for you. I will continue to chose intelligibility as my number one concern, and the RMC-1+ will meet my needs with room to spare. I think I'm choosing intellegability too. I'm just hoping I'll get the added benefit of a more diffuse sound field. I didn't sacrifice on quality of my additional speakers so I'm hoping it wouldn't have a negative effect but like you said I could find out I'm wrong. 11.x.8 should work on both atmos and dts:x. I rarely find DTS:X mixes though. I think the confusion is less when we see 9.1.6 is designed for a single row. 11.1.8 double row. 13.1.10 triple row. Nothing needs to be maxed out to enjoy. 5.1.2 to 7.1.4 with good speakers works too. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 20, 2024 19:22:17 GMT -5
There is no elephant in the room. You will potentially and eventually be able to play with 19.5 positions with an RMC-1+. If you need more, the RMC-1+ is not for you. I will continue to chose intelligibility as my number one concern, and the RMC-1+ will meet my needs with room to spare. I think I'm choosing intellegability too. I'm just hoping I'll get the added benefit of a more diffuse sound field. I didn't sacrifice on quality of my additional speakers so I'm hoping it wouldn't have a negative effect but like you said I could find out I'm wrong. 11.x.8 should work on both atmos and dts:x. I rarely find DTS:X mixes though. I think the confusion is less when we see 9.1.6 is designed for a single row. 11.1.8 double row. 13.1.10 triple row. Nothing needs to be maxed out to enjoy. 5.1.2 to 7.1.4 with good speakers works too. I added to my post. I didn't mean that you are wrong. Our respective approaches are different. Very high position count is a tougher row to hoe. IMO, less (5 to 7 base channels and 2 to 4 height positions) can be more. The biggest setup I had in my room was 7.2.6. I like the 7.2.2 better. If FW3.1 hadn't messed up the sound from my .6 height positions and made me experiment, I may have never come to this conclusion. It's just my conclusion. |
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Post by Stephen Park on Oct 21, 2024 9:22:40 GMT -5
Simple question: new plus model will support Roon? My roon server is connected RMC-1L directly via HDMI, and I set it as Onkyo receiver and it worked with some twicks. Roon tested or Roon ready, all will be good - and if it supports network streaming, and can use as roon bridge or dac, that will be great…
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 21, 2024 10:54:03 GMT -5
Simple question: new plus model will support Roon? My roon server is connected RMC-1L directly via HDMI, and I set it as Onkyo receiver and it worked with some twicks. Roon tested or Roon ready, all will be good - and if it supports network streaming, and can use as roon bridge or dac, that will be great… In one of the podcasts I remember Dan saying the outboard streamer was seeking Roon certification, but no idea if that would carry over to what might be part of the G4P. At least it tells you they consider it an important feature for a streamer. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 12:42:46 GMT -5
Simple question: new plus model will support Roon? My roon server is connected RMC-1L directly via HDMI, and I set it as Onkyo receiver and it worked with some twicks. Roon has no difficulty recognizing my XMC-2 as an XMC-2. I'm using a Mac mini connected via HDMI to the XMC-2. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 21, 2024 13:35:24 GMT -5
While it might be de rigueur, the problem I have with the 15.1, 19.5, etc. nomenclature in this thread, is that it's too ambiguous. We've seen the rear panel of the RMC-1+, and have no reason to believe the XMC-2+ will be any different (except slots and thingies). This tells us that while 7.1.6 will work, that 7.3.6, or 7.2.6 won't (even though they're within the channel count), so people shouldn't get their hopes up that they might — if they also want to use DLBC. With the RMC-1+ (sans cards) or the XMC-2+ (no options), I had hoped for 7.2.6 or 9.2.4, out of the box*.
We really are only getting hints what flexibility the Channel and Sub cards will have, and don't know when they're be available (though I'm confident my examples will be covered). I understand that 15.1 does not indicate my examples should work, but it also doesn't tell you that 7.3.4 will, and I'm somewhat ignoring the Dolby/DTS layout differences. Maybe I'm just pining for the 'early days of emersion' where we got to add a .x to our signature.
—AudioHTIT : 7.2.4 ... aspiring to 9.3.6
* The G4P Dolby / DLBC configurations I see out of the box (corrections welcome):
9.1.6, 9.1.4, 9.1.2, 9.2.4, 9.2.2, 9.3.4, 9.3.2
7.1.6, 7.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.2.4, 7.2.2, 7.3.4, 7.3.2
5.1.4, 5.1.2, 5.2.4, 5.2.2, 5.3.4, 5.3.2 (don't think 5.1.6 a thing)
3.1.4, 3.1.2, 3.2.4, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 3.3.2
1 The sub counts greater than x.1.x are for DLBC (if and when available)
2 Do we know if the bi-amp option is there, or if the bug is fixed? (Edit: Yes, No)
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Post by tngiloy on Oct 21, 2024 14:23:56 GMT -5
Simple question: new plus model will support Roon? My roon server is connected RMC-1L directly via HDMI, and I set it as Onkyo receiver and it worked with some twicks. Roon has no difficulty recognizing my XMC-2 as an XMC-2. I'm using a Mac mini connected via HDMI to the XMC-2. I have the same problem as Stephen Park. Roon does not recognize the RMC-1L and as such won't allow dsd to be sent over hdmi- either 'native' or 'DoP'. It offers DoP, but it doesn't work. I need to 'convert to pcm' in the Roon Nucleus. My Oppo 103 is recognized by Roon and allows dsd over hdmi. Does this mean that Emotiva has worked with Roon re the XMC-2 but not the RMC-1's ??  stephen Parks- Does the RMC-1 have the same chips (?) as the Onkyo?? Does that allow you to pass dsd over hdmi? |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 14:59:13 GMT -5
Roon has no difficulty recognizing my XMC-2 as an XMC-2. I'm using a Mac mini connected via HDMI to the XMC-2. I have the same problem as Stephen Park. Roon does not recognize the RMC-1L and as such won't allow dsd to be sent over hdmi- either 'native' or 'DoP'. It offers DoP, but it doesn't work. I need to 'convert to pcm' in the Roon Nucleus. My Oppo 103 is recognized by Roon and allows dsd over hdmi. Does this mean that Emotiva has worked with Roon re the XMC-2 but not the RMC-1's ?? View Attachmentstephen Parks- Does the RMC-1 have the same chips (?) as the Onkyo?? Does that allow you to pass dsd over hdmi? Ahhhhhhhhhhh, DSD, tried it, but don't use it.  |
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