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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 18, 2009 17:42:01 GMT -5
some(4 to be exact) RANE AC 24's to xover the low/high pass between the midrange drivers and the subs. In the next few months we are going to add 7 more Bryston monoblocks and REMOVE the passive xovers completely from all his monitors and Xover every driver electronically with no resistors,caps, or inductors in the signal path whatsoever. Best way to do it. Might I ask how much this will all cost? Most of us are here at Emotiva for the price/quality ratio - by the sounds of it these "ideal setups" of yours are considerably more expensive than most people here can justify/afford.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 18:05:43 GMT -5
some(4 to be exact) RANE AC 24's to xover the low/high pass between the midrange drivers and the subs. In the next few months we are going to add 7 more Bryston monoblocks and REMOVE the passive xovers completely from all his monitors and Xover every driver electronically with no resistors,caps, or inductors in the signal path whatsoever. Best way to do it. Might I ask how much this will all cost? Most of us are here at Emotiva for the price/quality ratio - by the sounds of it these "ideal setups" of yours are considerably more expensive than most people here can justify/afford. Well the amps in question are Bryston 7B SST2's(About $4000 each), and 4 RANE SC 24($799 each)active balanced xover's. So this setup in particular cost in total over $250,000 in equipment alone(AMP's, pre/pro, xovers,speakers,subs,actuated drop down screen, Runco HD front projector, cabling etc)but a similiar performing smaller system CAN be done for under $10-15k if you do your research and are careful with your purchases. I plan on doing a very similiar budget setup myself utilizing Emotiva AMPS, XMC-1,Emotiva 6.2's,Kef subs and 4 RANE active xovers myself, and Ill be well under $10k.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 19, 2009 5:35:39 GMT -5
So for those with a <$10k budget including display and sub (which I suspect is most Emotiva buyers) the first mentioned systems are totally out. Many folks houses are less than that! The 2nd list seems a lot more real-world.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 9:09:28 GMT -5
So for those with a <$10k budget including display and sub (which I suspect is most Emotiva buyers) the first mentioned systems are totally out. Many folks houses are less than that! The 2nd list seems a lot more real-world. On a smaller scale a resounding yes. One of the big keys to the system is the RANE AC 24. But for under $10k it sure as hell can be done. Hell, there are Sammy 58" plasmas now for $1500. Say a pair of XPA-5's for $1400, 5 ERM 6.2's for about $1100, 7 KEF PSW 2500's or Cube 10's for $2000 or less if you look carefully, 2 RANE AC 24's for $1600 and your at what? And say an XMC-1 for what $1000? PS3 for $300 and now your at what? $8900? Hell if you shop smart you can probably whittle alot more off that price as well. And most people may already have their widescreen,ps3 blu ray player etc so the cost can be considerably less. The big key to incredible dynamics though is running all your tweeters on dedicated amp channels, midrange woofers on their own dedicated amp channels,same with the sub frequencies and you do this with a quality variable active crossover system bypassing the internal passive crossovers in the speakers themselves. But dynamics, imaging etc all take a big leap when done.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 19, 2009 9:29:22 GMT -5
So maybe there is a market for an Emotiva electronic crossover - maybe a box with 3-way for 7 (or more, ahem!) channels in one box for what? 500 - 1000? They already have 4 "zone" 1-way ones in the UMC1, so that might be doable?
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 9:57:26 GMT -5
So maybe there is a market for an Emotiva electronic crossover - maybe a box with 3-way for 7 (or more, ahem!) channels in one box for what? 500 - 1000? They already have 4 "zone" 1-way ones in the UMC1, so that might be doable? Id love to see a dedicated active and variable 3/4 way adjustable xover. One with 8 channels with both XLR's(8 inputs w/22-29 XLR outs) and RCA's(Same 8 inputs/22-29 outs). Will that ever happen......doubtful. Most people don't go to the expense and pain to rip out and bypass the internal speakers xovers, nor do they have the equipment or know-how to properly set them up either.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 19, 2009 11:11:25 GMT -5
So for the average buyer that can not a) spend the money on active cross-overs and b) would either not know how or not be able to afford a tech to do it for them, this is probably not going to happen. So while it might be a better/nicer way to do things, for most folks it is not cost eddective/practical I think.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 19, 2009 11:14:08 GMT -5
... cost eddective???
"You're not from around these parts, are you partner?"- John Wayne
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 11:17:35 GMT -5
So for the average buyer that can not a) spend the money on active cross-overs and b) would either not know how or not be able to afford a tech to do it for them, this is probably not going to happen. So while it might be a better/nicer way to do things, for most folks it is not cost eddective/practical I think. Depends on the end user. There are many out there who are more than capable of doing a fully active x/over eq'd system, and it can be done for reasonable money, but there are more people who aren't capable. Another route for those who dont have the time or extra resources to do a fully active x/over system is to upgrade the internal xovers of the speakers they do have and take the money saved and buy a better amp to power em.
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Nov 19, 2009 15:24:24 GMT -5
So maybe there is a market for an Emotiva electronic crossover - maybe a box with 3-way for 7 (or more, ahem!) channels in one box for what? 500 - 1000? They already have 4 "zone" 1-way ones in the UMC1, so that might be doable? Id love to see a dedicated active and variable 3/4 way adjustable xover. One with 8 channels with both XLR's(8 inputs w/22-29 XLR outs) and RCA's(Same 8 inputs/22-29 outs). Will that ever happen......doubtful. A less expensive alternative to the Rane crossovers would be a DBX223XL 2 way stereo or 3 way mono balanced crossover....$189.95 www.dbxpro.com/223XL/223XL.phpThat's why I built my speakers with the crossovers in a separate cabinet. This way it's a snap to bypass. You can see the crossover box, behind the monitor. There are 4 binding posts on the monitor and a large opening on the front of the crossover box to allow for flush placement against each other. The rear connections....tri-wireable.... wires coming out of the slot go to the woofers in the bottom enclosure. and finally, the guts.....you can see the opening and binding posts from the monitor and how they just fit into the crossover box for that flush fit.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 17:51:02 GMT -5
Id love to see a dedicated active and variable 3/4 way adjustable xover. One with 8 channels with both XLR's(8 inputs w/22-29 XLR outs) and RCA's(Same 8 inputs/22-29 outs). Will that ever happen......doubtful. A less expensive alternative to the Rane crossovers would be a DBX223XL 2 way stereo or 3 way mono balanced crossover....$189.95 www.dbxpro.com/223XL/223XL.phpThat's why I built my speakers with the crossovers in a separate cabinet. This way it's a snap to bypass. You can see the crossover box, behind the monitor. There are 4 binding posts on the monitor and a large opening on the front of the crossover box to allow for flush placement against each other. The rear connections....tri-wireable.... wires coming out of the slot go to the woofers in the bottom enclosure. and finally, the guts.....you can see the opening and binding posts from the monitor and how they just fit into the crossover box for that flush fit. The 234XL would be a better choice. But yes, smart shopping and time doing research can yield great results for a well though out HT system. PS: You gotta clean up those xovers bro, LOL! Get yourself some mil spec board, a drill press, and a glue gun. ;D Regardless, the fact that your hands on, gets brownie points in my book!
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Post by Animo on Nov 19, 2009 19:44:48 GMT -5
PS: You gotta clean up those xovers bro, LOL! Get yourself some mil spec board, a drill press, and a glue gun. ;D Regardless, the fact that your hands on, gets brownie points in my book! This system is 11 years old. We sent out one monitor and bass cabinet to Aura Labs and had Jeoffrey Dillon design the crossover. I no longer have the spec sheet on this as they may have gotten lost in several moves. However, in it's regular position, the opening is to the bottom, and I can't see it from where I sit. The braided cables (which I also did myself) are bunched in the crossover box because they need extra length to connect to the monitors. I may, down the road, put bananas on them and make them a little shorter. Right now it's a bare wire connection to the posts. The important thing is they sound absofreakinlutely awesome. PS> did you see my sub build yet?
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Post by topcat on Nov 19, 2009 19:46:32 GMT -5
I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that one. The erd's are a perfect surround speaker They are the speakers that Emotiva Audio suggest to use with surround channels!
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Post by Animo on Nov 19, 2009 19:56:05 GMT -5
I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that one. The erd's are a perfect surround speaker They are the speakers that Emotiva Audio suggest to use with surround channels! I'm happy with my 4 ERDs
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 20:01:16 GMT -5
I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that one. The erd's are a perfect surround speaker They are the speakers that Emotiva Audio suggest to use with surround channels! THey may "suggest" it, but it doesnt mean it is optimal, and in my book it isnt. Like stated earlier, if you want a dipolar(read omnidirection spread frequency response)setup, do 2 pairs of full range monitors with a FULL COMPLIMENT OF DRIVERS. Not a speaker that uses an extra tweeter driver, while using 3 less (and smaller) midrange drivers(just one in the cabinet).
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Post by Animo on Nov 19, 2009 20:34:37 GMT -5
They are the speakers that Emotiva Audio suggest to use with surround channels! THey may "suggest" it, but it doesnt mean it is optimal, and in my book it isnt. Like stated earlier, if you want a dipolar(read omnidirection spread frequency response)setup, do 2 pairs of full range monitors with a FULL COMPLIMENT OF DRIVERS. Not a speaker that uses an extra tweeter driver, while using 3 less (and smaller) midrange drivers(just one in the cabinet). Everything in life sometimes has to come down to compromise. I have 2 awesome boats, but they are different from other boats their size. Storage space, fuel consumption, speed, comfort, etc. I have a sweet conversion van. Lot's of interior room, smokin sound system, tv and video system, but the mileage sucks and I can't always find parking, and forget about public garages. In both scenarios, major compromise. The same exists in home theater. While it may be optimal to have a gazillion speakers set up to cover every possible array alignment, not many of us have the physical room to accomplish this. The ERDs, while small, are very efficient performers. They can be set up as bipole or dipole, depending on preference or location. I have my sides set in a left/right dipole configuration, and my rears are bipoles. It may not be optimal, in your eyes, but it's all I have room for, and probably the same with many others. And for the record, if you haven't heard them, don't knock them. They do a pretty amazing job. I know you are a few hours North of me, but if you are ever planning to be in my area, feel free to give me a heads up.....the door is always open to Emophiles.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 19, 2009 21:03:45 GMT -5
THey may "suggest" it, but it doesnt mean it is optimal, and in my book it isnt. Like stated earlier, if you want a dipolar(read omnidirection spread frequency response)setup, do 2 pairs of full range monitors with a FULL COMPLIMENT OF DRIVERS. Not a speaker that uses an extra tweeter driver, while using 3 less (and smaller) midrange drivers(just one in the cabinet). Everything in life sometimes has to come down to compromise. I have 2 awesome boats, but they are different from other boats their size. Storage space, fuel consumption, speed, comfort, etc. I have a sweet conversion van. Lot's of interior room, smokin sound system, tv and video system, but the mileage sucks and I can't always find parking, and forget about public garages. In both scenarios, major compromise. The same exists in home theater. While it may be optimal to have a gazillion speakers set up to cover every possible array alignment, not many of us have the physical room to accomplish this. The ERDs, while small, are very efficient performers. They can be set up as bipole or dipole, depending on preference or location. I have my sides set in a left/right dipole configuration, and my rears are bipoles. It may not be optimal, in your eyes, but it's all I have room for, and probably the same with many others. And for the record, if you haven't heard them, don't knock them. They do a pretty amazing job. I know you are a few hours North of me, but if you are ever planning to be in my area, feel free to give me a heads up.....the door is always open to Emophiles. Honestly if you have room for 7 surround speakers, it becomes even less worthwhile doing dipoles. Whats funny is that the ERD-1's cost more than say a pair of 6.2's and technically your getting less for more $$$. And yes I have heard em. While I like the 6.2's(my favorite of all the Emotiva speakers)the ERD's I dont really consider that great in comparison. And the frequency response both on and off axis is skewed significantly. The 6.2's make much better surround monitors by far. If Im ever in the area, Id be glad to swing by......Absinthe in hand. ;D
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Post by jmilton on Nov 19, 2009 21:40:02 GMT -5
Thy name is Penny
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 19, 2009 21:40:37 GMT -5
Everything in life sometimes has to come down to compromise. I have 2 awesome boats, but they are different from other boats their size. Storage space, fuel consumption, speed, comfort, etc. I have a sweet conversion van. Lot's of interior room, smokin sound system, tv and video system, but the mileage sucks and I can't always find parking, and forget about public garages. In both scenarios, major compromise. The same exists in home theater. While it may be optimal to have a gazillion speakers set up to cover every possible array alignment, not many of us have the physical room to accomplish this. The ERDs, while small, are very efficient performers. They can be set up as bipole or dipole, depending on preference or location. I have my sides set in a left/right dipole configuration, and my rears are bipoles. It may not be optimal, in your eyes, but it's all I have room for, and probably the same with many others. And for the record, if you haven't heard them, don't knock them. They do a pretty amazing job. I know you are a few hours North of me, but if you are ever planning to be in my area, feel free to give me a heads up.....the door is always open to Emophiles. Honestly if you have room for 7 surround speakers, it becomes even less worthwhile doing dipoles. Whats funny is that the ERD-1's cost more than say a pair of 6.2's and technically your getting less for more $$$. And yes I have heard em. While I like the 6.2's(my favorite of all the Emotiva speakers)the ERD's I dont really consider that great in comparison. And the frequency response both on and off axis is skewed significantly. The 6.2's make much better surround monitors by far. If Im ever in the area, Id be glad to swing by......Absinthe in hand. ;D Actually, that's not quite true...the ERD-1's are sold in pairs. Even when the price goes up in January, the cost will be about $175 per speaker, which is quite a bit less than ERM-6.2s are apiece. And incidentally, everyone at Emotiva disagrees...the ERDs are perfect surrounds. It's cool if someone prefers another speaker, but the ERDs move the sound around the room like nothing else. Period.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 19, 2009 21:43:41 GMT -5
Oh, now you have done it...
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