Sealed versus Ported

[DYohn]

Indeed. Many of the best performing subwoofer systems ever designed are ported. Speaking in generalities about loudspeaker design is never a good idea.

[pczach]

I know that subwoofer technology has improved many fold over the last decade or so. I understand that many ported subs absolutely sound fantastic. It's many of the other factors I listed that make me lean towards sealed. I am currently in the market for a sub. I would consider the Rythmik F15 and D15SE as the two I am most strongly considering. Both are sealed and I have gotten good feedback from people who have heard these subs. For me, it's a combination of the size that best fits my room, looks, specs, price, and the output and sonic signature of the sub. Rythmik states their goal is to create the strongest, tightest bass possible in a sealed configuration. It seems to be everything I'm looking for in a sub. I hope to find out fairly soon.

If I were to hear a ported sub that met my personal criteria, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I'm not that short sided. It has become physically impossible to hear all the choices out there. I'm just going to make an informed choice on an internet company sub, based on what I've learned and heard about their products. Much of this info comes from The Lounge, and all the kind people here that share info and try to honestly help me make decisions on equipment I've never heard.

I've learned so much from so many of you! Thank you.

[Deleted]

I personally think the room has more to do with how a sub will sound more than the design. I know this first hand.

[DYohn]

Dec 23, 2009 17:58:04 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

I personally think the room has more to do with how a sub will sound more than the design. I know this first hand.

Yes, the room and placement of the speakers in the room are of primary importance. Absolutely right.

A friend of mine once said, "A properly treated space allows one to hear more of the speakers and less of the room."

[ntrain42]

Dec 18, 2009 22:47:43 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

That is true, only if you need the space though. You could also add another ported sub and need 4 sealed subs to match the output. It is the poor mans way of doing things in some aspects but if you have the space, IMO they can't be beat. I should note I'm going to give the "Danely super spud 10" a try as well, as my 2 other sealed 18's that should be ready in about 2 weeks or so. It will be interesting to see what the horn sub will do.

Not necessarily true, when you double the cone space you add about 3db, double the power on top of that add 3db more. So it would probably take 2 sealed subs of equal size to equal the output(and most likely its you actually get a db or 2 more from the sealed setup, and it will have a smoother frequency response and be much cleaner sounding especially near its peak spl where ported setups start to sound rough).

[ntrain42]

Dec 22, 2009 21:42:44 GMT -5 flamingeye said:

I always thought sealed was better that`s why my DIY sub is sealed well that and it was easier to make especially back in the early 80`s ,but I still thought sealed was better for music , but now with my mfw-15 which is a ported sub I changed my mined and now think it doesn`t really mater because my LP`s have never sounded so good the mfw-15 brings out every bass note no mater how delicate or slight the bass tone is it bring it to me like it was suppose to be heard my vinyl collection sounds more realistic and when paired with my DIY 15" sealed it`s so life like it`s really amazing how the two work together anyway just using the mfw-15 with music and finding how musical it was just squashed that idea that sealed is better well for me anyways

Again, you have nothing directly to compare it to in terms of apples to apples. If you could get an MFW-15 in a properly sized sealed box how would it sound and what would its overall response be? If they made one(they wont as it will lose its appeal and some max spl #'s which is what SELLS subs in this day in age). If they made one I would bet its response curve would be superior in a linear fashion.

[ntrain42]

Dec 23, 2009 16:49:57 GMT -5 pczach said:

I know that subwoofer technology has improved many fold over the last decade or so. I understand that many ported subs absolutely sound fantastic. It's many of the other factors I listed that make me lean towards sealed. I am currently in the market for a sub. I would consider the Rythmik F15 and D15SE as the two I am most strongly considering. Both are sealed and I have gotten good feedback from people who have heard these subs. For me, it's a combination of the size that best fits my room, looks, specs, price, and the output and sonic signature of the sub. Rythmik states their goal is to create the strongest, tightest bass possible in a sealed configuration. It seems to be everything I'm looking for in a sub. I hope to find out fairly soon.

If I were to hear a ported sub that met my personal criteria, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I'm not that short sided. It has become physically impossible to hear all the choices out there. I'm just going to make an informed choice on an internet company sub, based on what I've learned and heard about their products. Much of this info comes from The Lounge, and all the kind people here that share info and try to honestly help me make decisions on equipment I've never heard.

I've learned so much from so many of you! Thank you.

Bro, don't waver from that D15SE. Its an incredible sub. Nice large sealed downfiring box thats direct SERVO controlled. Best of all worlds. And don't let its modest 375watt power amp fool you either. That 15" driver is very efficient and doesn't need much power for clean high SPL. There are alot of 1000 and 2000 watt subs out there that can't hold a candle to the clean output that sub is capable of putting out.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2009 18:11:27 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Dec 18, 2009 22:47:43 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

That is true, only if you need the space though. You could also add another ported sub and need 4 sealed subs to match the output. It is the poor mans way of doing things in some aspects but if you have the space, IMO they can't be beat. I should note I'm going to give the "Danely super spud 10" a try as well, as my 2 other sealed 18's that should be ready in about 2 weeks or so. It will be interesting to see what the horn sub will do.

Not necessarily true, when you double the cone space you add about 3db, double the power on top of that add 3db more. So it would probably take 2 sealed subs of equal size to equal the output(and most likely its you actually get a db or 2 more from the sealed setup, and it will have a smoother frequency response and be much cleaner sounding especially near its peak spl where ported setups start to sound rough).

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.


I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

[RayoVac]

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.


I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

+1000

[Deleted]

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Dec 23, 2009 18:11:27 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Not necessarily true, when you double the cone space you add about 3db, double the power on top of that add 3db more. So it would probably take 2 sealed subs of equal size to equal the output(and most likely its you actually get a db or 2 more from the sealed setup, and it will have a smoother frequency response and be much cleaner sounding especially near its peak spl where ported setups start to sound rough).

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.

I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

I've heard of this phenomenon about subs at times running 3db's higher durring xmas.... ;D

[Animo]

Dec 24, 2009 9:02:39 GMT -5 neekos said:

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.

I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

I've heard of this phenomenon about subs at times running 3db's higher durring xmas.... ;D

And after New Year, they'll be too drunk to make any sound!!!

[Deleted]

DAMN, THAT'S GOOD..

[ntrain42]

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Dec 23, 2009 18:11:27 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Not necessarily true, when you double the cone space you add about 3db, double the power on top of that add 3db more. So it would probably take 2 sealed subs of equal size to equal the output(and most likely its you actually get a db or 2 more from the sealed setup, and it will have a smoother frequency response and be much cleaner sounding especially near its peak spl where ported setups start to sound rough).

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.


I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

Your missing what Im saying. Example.

1 12" sealed sub with 500 watt amp may net you 110db.

Add another 12" driver and enclosure(but split up the power between the 2 subs will net you another 3db so now your at 113db.

Now add another 500 watt power amp to the second sub for its own dedicated power supply, that again nets you an additional 3db.

So if you have one single powered sub and add another identical powered sub to it you will gain a total of 6db more in volume.

[Deleted]

You will gain and average of 6 db's if the subs are located in the same spot. If they are staggered, you will gain around 3db's, we pretty much all know this that have dual or more subs.
From what you wrote it looked like you were saying that taking a sub and adding twice the power will add 3 db's. I just re-read it and i still get the same thing. It's just the way it was worded I guess.

Also it doesn't help, I'm filled with xmas cheer.... opps I mean beer .

[handree]

There should be no difference between a ported sub and a ported speaker.
How many great speakers have a ported bass section?

I don't use a sub but my speakers have 2 scan speak 8" carbon fiber woofers.
I use 2 10" passive radiators. This works similar to a port. The sound is not sloppy at all.
The tones are very tight. I tuned the speaker to about 35 Hz -3dB. This gets an in room
response of about 20 Hz.

Many of the cheap subs use inferior drivers and amps. This will get sloppy no matter
what.

Also I challenge that a sealed sub is smaller then a ported one. WIth the same
efficiency you usually need a large cabinet in a sealed speaker to get the
same low frequency.

A sealed sub that has a 35Hz -3 is usually quite big (Unless you apply
amplifier bass boost).

[handree]

I do agree with the difficulty of ports. A port is like another driver.
It's frequency response depends on how and where it's firing.
It's also out of phase with the woofer. So that's another
challenge.

I've tried modeling many drivers. Any sub that produces
in room 20Hz is going to be big and needs decent
components to achieve a high fidelity.

Now this is a large sub:

www.overclock.net/sound-cards-computer-audio/359458-pics-worlds-biggest-underground-sub-woofer.html

[flamingeye]

Dec 23, 2009 18:15:02 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Dec 22, 2009 21:42:44 GMT -5 flamingeye said:

I always thought sealed was better that`s why my DIY sub is sealed well that and it was easier to make especially back in the early 80`s ,but I still thought sealed was better for music , but now with my mfw-15 which is a ported sub I changed my mined and now think it doesn`t really mater because my LP`s have never sounded so good the mfw-15 brings out every bass note no mater how delicate or slight the bass tone is it bring it to me like it was suppose to be heard my vinyl collection sounds more realistic and when paired with my DIY 15" sealed it`s so life like it`s really amazing how the two work together anyway just using the mfw-15 with music and finding how musical it was just squashed that idea that sealed is better well for me anyways

Again, you have nothing directly to compare it to in terms of apples to apples. If you could get an MFW-15 in a properly sized sealed box how would it sound and what would its overall response be? If they made one(they wont as it will lose its appeal and some max spl #'s which is what SELLS subs in this day in age). If they made one I would bet its response curve would be superior in a linear fashion.

I think anyone that limits them selves to one typ of sub is doing them selves a deserves , measurements are one thing and sounding good/right is another just like a perfectly flat sub doesn`t mean it will sound good I had to put a hard knee curve on my sub to make it sound perfect in my room to my ears and my ported MFW-15 sounds so good I do not see a need for a sealed MFW-15 equivalent if anything I bet the difference sound wise would be subtle if at all again though where talking about my room my ears , I have found though with audiophiles that once they have made there minds up no matter what you do or can prove they will not change there minds

[ntrain42]

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Dec 23, 2009 18:11:27 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Not necessarily true, when you double the cone space you add about 3db, double the power on top of that add 3db more. So it would probably take 2 sealed subs of equal size to equal the output(and most likely its you actually get a db or 2 more from the sealed setup, and it will have a smoother frequency response and be much cleaner sounding especially near its peak spl where ported setups start to sound rough).

Adding twice the power to a sub that already is running at or close to xmas with it's rated power at a specific tune is not going to gain you 3db's. Ported or sealed.


I'm just trying to make the point there is no "ported is better than sealed" mumbo jumbo. Your room and activities in that room, will determine what the best sub for your needs would end up being.

Name a time when a ported enclosure is the best route to go over a sealed enclosure, PLEASE. And make sure its other than allocated budget allowed. The minute you add a port to an enclosure, you limit the subs ability in reality.

And another thing to point out. People don't realize that the majority of the extended ported volume is due to the enclosure itself, not the port. If you got the room for a larger ported enclosure, your really better off just making a larger sealed enclosure in reality. Ports kill the smooth frequency response and extension.

[Stevens]

Feb 7, 2010 18:21:18 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Dec 24, 2009 1:14:52 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Ports kill the smooth frequency response and extension.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I don't think this is necessarily true.

See the following test of the smallest ported SVS sub, which in my room extends all the way down to 17Hz: link. A quote from the test:

The cheapest and smallest one of the SVS offerings (at the time). When considering that, it's kind of surprising that it has the flattest frequency response of the SVS subwoofers I have tested.

Again, not trying to pick a fight, but my point is that it is probably becoming harder to make generalizations of "ported vs. sealed". I guess these days it comes more down to the quality of the design, components and build rather than any inherent characteristics of any one type of design.

[DYohn]

The only accurate generalization one can make about ported and sealed loudspeakers is that ported use some sort of vent and sealed don't, and ported designs will have a higher group delay characteristic than sealed designs. Other than that, one would be talking out of the wrong orifice.