Listening to the UMC-1

[Chris]

Jan 29, 2010 7:24:13 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Yes the UMC-1 will take native DSD. I am using now with my Oppo.

Has Emotiva confirmed that the UMC-1 handles DSD natively?

Based on past discussions before the UMC-1 was released I thought it was confirmed that the UMC-1 did NOT handle DSD natively?

I don't doubt that you are setting your Oppo to DSD over HDMI but is it possible that it is actually switching to LPCM because the UMC-1 does not support DSD?

I really wish Emotiva would publish a really detailed specifications matrix that answers questions like this.

-CB

[jmilton]

"HDMI is an all digital interface for the cleanest possible connection. It delivers high-quality digital video and audio through a single cable. The DV-980H is among the very few players on the market that support HDMI v1.2a with multi-channel PCM and DSD audio, making it an ideal source device or digital transport for audiophiles.Direct Stream Digital (DSD) over HDMI (Requires compatible A/V receiver)"- From Oppo website

SACD Output: To select audio output format for SACD. The options are:
• PCM – SACD Direct Stream Digital (DSD) data is converted into multi-channel highresolution PCM data. If you use the multi-channel analog output or a receiver that supports HDMI v1.1 to listen to SACD, please select this option.
• DSD – SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. A receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI is required. When this option is selected, the DVD player does not decode SACD audio, and its analog audio output is muted. Instead, the receiver is responsible for decoding the DSD data stream it receives over HDMI.- Oppo 980H manual

So if I am sending DSD over HDMI to the UMC, is not the UMC doing the conversion to multichannel PCM?

(This is where you say, "Sweet Sassy Molassy!")

[DYohn]

Jan 29, 2010 11:15:41 GMT -5 jmilton said:

"HDMI is an all digital interface for the cleanest possible connection. It delivers high-quality digital video and audio through a single cable. The DV-980H is among the very few players on the market that support HDMI v1.2a with multi-channel PCM and DSD audio, making it an ideal source device or digital transport for audiophiles.Direct Stream Digital (DSD) over HDMI (Requires compatible A/V receiver)"- from Oppo website

So if I am sending DSD over HDMI to the UMC, is not the UMC doing the conversion to multichannel PCM?

If you are sending DSD via HDMI, the UMC-1 is doing the D/A conversion, yes. Not sure if it ever goes through a PCM state, but that shouldn't really matter.

[rooster]

Jan 29, 2010 7:24:13 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Yes the UMC-1 will take native DSD. I am using now with my Oppo.

What does the UMC display?

[jmilton]

Multichannel PCM 88.2KHz


(see my link from prior post)

[rooster]

Jan 29, 2010 11:46:44 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Multichannel PCM 88.2KHz


(see my link from prior post)

I would expect to see something saying DSD. Do you know if your player automatically detects whether the pre/pro has DSD decoding capabilities? (I believe that's what my sony xa5400es does since there is not a setting to select DSD or PCM).

[jmilton]

No, the Oppo does not auto detect.

If the recv'r can not take DSD, it'll either give you NO sound or a nasty sounding digital static. DSD has to ultimately be converted to PCM for processing to occur (EmoQ, bass mgt., etc.) The Oppo displays DSD as its output if you have selected DSD output in the setup menu.

[Nemesis.ie]

What can I say? Sounds great - Sweet Sassy Molassy!

[Chris]

Jan 29, 2010 11:46:44 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Multichannel PCM 88.2KHz


(see my link from prior post)

I have a new Marantz NR1501 receiver that I hooked up with an Oppo 970. The Oppo supports sending DSD over HDMI. I set it up to send LPCM because I knew that the Marantz doesn't support DSD according to the literature. The Marantz displays multi channel PCM in this config. When I set it to raw it displays Dolby digital if that's what's being sent. I haven't specifically tried sending DSD to the Marantz which I need to test.

I'm not trying to dispute your experience but the fact that the UMC-1 is displaying Mult-channel PCM says to me that PCM is being sent and not DSD?

I really wish Emotiva would clarify these types of things!

-CB

[jmilton]

Again:
DSD – SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. A receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI is required. When this option is selected, the DVD player does not decode SACD audio, and its analog audio output is muted. Instead, the receiver is responsible for decoding the DSD data stream it receives over HDMI.- Oppo 980H manual

Try sending DSD to your Marantz. I suspect you will hear a digital wall of silence.

[lonewolf]

Jan 29, 2010 10:40:09 GMT -5 jmilton said:

In the Oppo. It has a setup menu that asks if you want to send via HDMI: LPCM or DSD. Select DSD and you are good to go. I tried both and hear no discernible difference, but I figured the DSD to LPCM is getting better conversion with the UMC-1 chipset.

The Oppo will send DVD-A as well, of course. DSD will be at 88.1KHz and displayed as Multichannel PCM:

cave.hometheaterhifi.com/photo/album/show?id=3396734%3AAlbum%3A5796&xg_source=activity

Thanks

[Chris]

Okay, this is the statement that I saw earlier and unless someone can demonstrate a design change, I believe that the UMC-1 does NOT support DSD over HDMI but does support LPCM that is decoded in the source player.

-CB

[moe]

Although I don't know,I assume the umc does not support dsd as it shows pcm.I also think it sounds fabulous so I don't care,I would certainly be willing to pay someone $100 if they could pick dsd over pcm 10 of 10 times,I couldn't.To me the most important thing was how my redbook cd's sound through it,and I'm very pleased with that aspect.

[rooster]

Jan 29, 2010 16:59:33 GMT -5 adam631 said:

This is the answer i got when i asked about it.

Hello Adam,
First of all thank you for your interest in Emotiva. The Cirrus
solution that we are using for our platform does not support DSD over
HDMI (they decided not to pay the licensing for it) so the only way to
have this be an option would be to change to a different solution. The
number of customers that were demanding DSD over HDMI was such a small
percentage that we did not find it beneficial to switch to a solution
that supports it. If your player is able to decode it and send it via
Multi-channel PCM then the UMC will pass it straight through,
otherwise it will not work. I hope this helps and please let me know
if you have any other questions.
Best Regards,
Nick
Emotiva Audio Corp.

okay, i guess this makes sense. now, my question is will the EMO-Q room correction apply to this "passed-thru" signal? Listening to SACD over HDMI, it appeared I only had two options for "mode" - Stereo and Direct.

[moe]

Jan 29, 2010 3:48:05 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

So Moe, musically speaking, the UMC-1 is everything you dreamt of and more?
About other aspects from it? Are you satisfy enough to recommend it to your best friends?

I would not say everything I dream of,and certainly not more....but more than I expected and as good as any(digital pre) I've had.

As far as recommending to friends,I would only recommend to the few friends I have with lots of "audio gear"knowledge.I sure don't want them callin' me to get their tv,cd,dvd or a long list of items working cause they did something wrong.I would and have recommended it to a few friends(one a member here who purchased) and also agree that not withstanding the few minor bugs it sounds great,better than any other they've had.

[NorthStar]

Jan 29, 2010 10:40:09 GMT -5 jmilton said:

In the Oppo. It has a setup menu that asks if you want to send via HDMI: LPCM or DSD. Select DSD and you are good to go. I tried both and hear no discernible difference, but I figured the DSD to LPCM is getting better conversion with the UMC-1 chipset.

The Oppo will send DVD-A as well, of course. DSD will be at 88.1KHz and displayed as Multichannel PCM:

cave.hometheaterhifi.com/photo/album/show?id=3396734%3AAlbum%3A5796&xg_source=activity

Ah, so it is downconverted to Multichannel PCM then.

[NorthStar]

Jan 29, 2010 17:44:28 GMT -5 moe said:

Jan 29, 2010 3:48:05 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

So Moe, musically speaking, the UMC-1 is everything you dreamt of and more?
About other aspects from it? Are you satisfy enough to recommend it to your best friends?

I would not say everything I dream of,and certainly not more....but more than I expected and as good as any(digital pre) I've had.

As far as recommending to friends,I would only recommend to the few friends I have with lots of "audio gear"knowledge.I sure don't want them callin' me to get their tv,cd,dvd or a long list of items working cause they did something wrong.I would and have recommended it to a few friends(one a member here who purchased) and also agree that not withstanding the few minor bugs it sounds great,better than any other they've had.

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate.

[Mister L'fe]

Has anyone listened to the multi-channel 192 kHz/24 bit recordings on Blu-ray from 2L?

www.2l.no/

[dkjohn]

This post from AVS is the way I feel whole heartedly and thought you guys could relate to the poster as I do.

"My point is a bit different. Yes, there's always been a budget category, a high-end category, and a "value" category. What the High End used to be able to do was distinguish itself with better component parts, build quality, attention to detail and, of course, leading edge technology.

As the digital age has progressed, however, the greatest differences in sound quality, video quality, and versatility began to be swallowed up by the technology category. As formats changed, it became extremely difficult for The High End to distinguish itself in the ways it had in the past. A/V processors and projectors are the best examples I can think of. Five years ago I was the proud purchaser of what appeared (for a few months, anyway) to be the best projector on the planet, the Qualia 004. You can not only pick one up for under $3,000 today ($30,000 originally), but what you can buy for $5000 is exponentially better than what the Qualia was.

All of a sudden, especially since the advent of HDMI, we've seen budget products pop up that not only had far greater versatility than the "elite" A/V processors like Meridian, Theta, Lexicon, Krell, but also that could offer new technologies that often affected things like sound quality. There's been a developmental recession in the world of High End A/V processors. You see the old guard getting easily bested by units that are well under $10,000, and the paralytic reaction from those companies could not be said to instill confidence in any of those companies keeping their place in the traditional hierarchy of "the best." Theta still doesn't even have HDMI, Meridian is just adding it with an outboard piece; Lexicon could at least squeeze a lot into the MC12HD format, though even they realize they need a new format.

In the meantime, companies like Integra, Denon, Anthem, and a host of others have put out products that have, in too many ways that are meaningful, completely outclassed the traditional high-end. Since it is technology that is making the difference, not build-quality, not a willingness to put the most expensive parts together, the traditional high end formula of achieving superiority has been turned upside down.

So, today, I see a company called ATI that bought a bagful of assets and a name, and they call it Theta; I see Krell kicking out its founder, and under the control of--who?--; I see Lexicon resorting to a parlor trick with its BD player. And I see companies like Denon, Marantz, Anthem, and Integra putting out products that the traditionally high-end companies can only dream about. This is not a momentary glitch. This is a definite trend.

I used to only want to buy from among the "best in class." That also used to mean among the most expensive. But "best in class" has never been less synonymous with most money than it is now. The Oppo is a great example.

The High End is upside down. There is a new order emerging, and I'd rather have a really smart setup than one that fits the old mold."

[snodog]

Ok I am a bit lost. What exactly is DSD? How is that different from 7.1 analog, besides obviously being digital vs analog and why would this be preferred by some?