selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 24, 2010 23:55:18 GMT -5
Solid, i have to agree with Nashty1 that I think it is a UMC issue. When I have the dish box connected directly to my Pioneer Plasma monitor using HDMI, and the audio running to the UMC via toslink, no problems at all. But when I run the HDMI through the UMC, then to my monitor, the Dish reciever crashes whenever the UMC is powered down, and the dish reciever needs to reboot. This happens for both TV's because the one reciever controls both. I'm not sure how it runs both, but the installer tried to tell me that the signal is sent back up the Coaxial line to the other TV. When the UMC is turned off, the LED's on the front panel of the Dish VIP go out altogether, and the signal from the satellite is lost. Like I said, I worked around this by leaving the UMC out of the HDMI loop, but it would be great if I could get it all back running through the UMC. For the time being, my wife can still run the upstairs TV, and I can get everything I need out of my theater, but it's a little more inconvenient to have to change the inputs on the TV. I also lose the on screen menu if the UMC is not in the video loop. I hope this explains a little more what's going on. I hate to admit that much of what you are suggesting is a little over my head. I'm a relative newby in the more advanced electronics world, although I'd really like to learn. I might PM you if this doesn't work itself out in the next firmware update. It's VERY generous of you to take time out of your schedule to help some lost souls. Thanks, Mark I believe he is using a diplexor. In his quote. He says the installer said the tv2 signal is sent back up the coax line. Therefore must be using a diplexor. I bet he has one coax coming out of the wall into a diplexor into a seperator then into the dish box. Then only has hdmi for tv1. And if he is using tv2 on ch 73 he is definately using coax somehow. |
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Post by solidstate on Jan 25, 2010 1:13:40 GMT -5
What he's got is a 1000.2 or dish500 with dishpro plus LNB. At the IRD he's using a separator thus only one coax run from LNB to this IRD. Band stacking on L-band using separator allow this. The second tv is being sent signal via CATV injection into his house's coax cabling. L-band isn't available at second TV location as far as I know. This dictates that he doesn't have CATV diplexing injector. The crappy picture he receives via CATV 73 tells me it's also connected to external ATSC antenna. Heck I just realized I directed him to set modulator to cable and not air. If this is the case for your ATSC/CATV reception please set it back to air. Either way diplexor or not, it's not related to his issues.
Solid-State
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Post by solidstate on Jan 25, 2010 1:24:20 GMT -5
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 25, 2010 2:40:23 GMT -5
What he's got is a 1000.2 or dish500 with dishpro plus LNB. At the IRD he's using a separator thus only one coax run from LNB to this IRD. Band stacking on L-band using separator allow this. The second tv is being sent signal via CATV injection into his house's coax cabling. L-band isn't available at second TV location as far as I know. This dictates that he doesn't have CATV diplexing injector. The crappy picture he receives via CATV 73 tells me it's also connected to external ATSC antenna. Heck I just realized I directed him to set modulator to cable and not air. If this is the case for your ATSC/CATV reception please set it back to air. Either way diplexor or not, it's not related to his issues. Solid-State I understand what your saying about one coax and proplus lnbs and all that. I just quit Dish after working there since 2002. But he says its being fed to tv2 via coax. So without a diplexor he would have to have a sat in coax coming from the dish and then use the prewire or an independent coax to tv2. I know its not even dealing with his problem. Im just curious as to how he hs it set up. I know I almost always used diplexors. Because who wants more coax and holes ran for tv2. Not many people do. |
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Post by solidstate on Jan 25, 2010 2:49:24 GMT -5
With that in hand I guess your right. It would be smarter to use a diplexor and provide l-band to his second tv location. Hard to tell though as user has little to no understanding of how the sat is setup.
Solid-State
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 25, 2010 2:59:11 GMT -5
Hopefully we can get him set straight. But what me and you are talking about with diplexors has nothing to do with his problem. I just brought it up out of curiousity as to how it was installed. Dish was one thing I was really into till they did pay cuts. But dish can be really cool and alot of stuff can be done with them. Example, you could use an old dish legacy 64 switch with legacy lnbs. And use pick up to 6 different sat locations. How? by polarity locking the lnbs with power inverters. But when polarity locking you can only get odd or even transponders. Its pretty cool. YOu could for example get 119odd and even 110 odd and even then you could choose 2 other dish locations and choose odd or evens. This is uncommon but is done in MDU and commercial setups. Or guys that used to use FTA setups.
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Post by solidstate on Jan 25, 2010 3:44:15 GMT -5
power inverters? Polarity switching is done via 18 or 13V via "legacy" standard. Dishpro plus doesn't need it due to band stacking and the receive always sends a constant 19v I believe. This URL should clarify. www.dbsinstall.com/Dish_network/dishnetwork_lnb-switch_tech.aspHe is incorrect though in saying that DPP uses voltage polarity switching. How the hell he figures that works through a separator down a single segment is beyond me... What if PVR has tuner one right handed and tuner two left handed pal! Also the legacy voltage polarity switching backwards compatibility is done inside the DPP44 switch to receiver not on the DPP44 to LNB trunk. Actually that guy is wrong about a bunch of stuff at the end of the article LOL |
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Post by scheiderichdmd on Jan 25, 2010 10:19:45 GMT -5
I appreciate the help, but you guys are talking way over my head at this point. I do recall the installer talking about a diplexor, and my 2nd TV is hooked up to the existing prewire in the house, and set to channel 60. It's just an old standard def tube TV, so the quality on that one doesn't matter to me.
Solid- I will try to follow your directions tonight to get the newest firmware on the Dish reciever, and to reset it correctly. If I can't get it worked out, I'll give dish a call. I've been wanting to upgrade to a DRV anyway, and I might have a good excuse now.
Thanks!!
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 25, 2010 11:44:04 GMT -5
power inverters? Polarity switching is done via 18 or 13V via "legacy" standard. Dishpro plus doesn't need it due to band stacking and the receive always sends a constant 26v I believe. This URL should clarify. www.dbsinstall.com/Dish_network/dishnetwork_lnb-switch_tech.aspHe is incorrect though in saying that DPP uses voltage polarity switching. How the hell he figures that works through a separator down a single segment is beyond me... What if PVR has tuner one right handed and tuner two left handed pal! Also the legacy voltage polarity switching backwards compatibility is done inside the DPP44 switch to receiver not on the DPP44 to LNB trunk. Actually that guy is wrong about a bunch of stuff at the end of the article LOL . Legacy lnb's with power inserters that lock it onto a certain voltage to get wither the odd or even transponders depending on if you want right hand or left hand polarity. It all boils down to what channels you want an offf what sat. orbitals. After running all this into a older multi switch. you must then decide how many IRD's you need. YOu may split off with 8 IRD's off a port that has 110 odd transponders. You then would tun the IRD's to the specific stations then run them into a modulator to say make dish network channel 38 as channel 3. and so on. You then run a signal combiner off all IRDS. And walaa!!!!! You can now just switch the channel at the tv......no IRD in the room and be watching channels from everywhere and different subscribers. Like I said this is how alot of Hotels are running. ALot of them dont have cable but a set up like this. It is in essence a minature headend system. I know its confusing and has nothing to do with the first poster. I was just rambling on last night and wanted to try to clarify it today. |
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 25, 2010 11:47:43 GMT -5
I appreciate the help, but you guys are talking way over my head at this point. I do recall the installer talking about a diplexor, and my 2nd TV is hooked up to the existing prewire in the house, and set to channel 60. It's just an old standard def tube TV, so the quality on that one doesn't matter to me. Solid- I will try to follow your directions tonight to get the newest firmware on the Dish reciever, and to reset it correctly. If I can't get it worked out, I'll give dish a call. I've been wanting to upgrade to a DRV anyway, and I might have a good excuse now. Thanks!! You should take solid up on his free offer for the call. Its a nice thing he is doing by helping youout for free. Dish will tell you to take the UMC out of the mix and want to send out a tech and charge you. Trust me. I worked there for 8 years. Itsd not in dish policy to have to integrate systems. Just get it working to your tv's. So he will walk in, unhook your UMC-1 and say" there you go its your reciever" and be done. Now you just got charged for a trouble call for it being customer equipment. Call Solid first. Save you time and money. |
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Post by nashty1 on Jan 25, 2010 13:20:36 GMT -5
Wow! You guys are great. I go to bed and then to work and you are still working on my problem! Can't beat that! I did give Solid State a call last night and I REALLY REALLY appreciated his time (1 hour +). We went through my entire set-up and ran down a long list of things to check and verify. This is the reason he speaks with some authority on my setup in his recent posts. Unfortunately, no solution yet. I wasn't prepared to take the nuclear option yet on the "factory reboot" that reformats everything on the 722. I will likely try this soon, however, last night I needed to get to bed and for some reason my kids, wife, and work don't agree on the relative importance of getting this fixed.  As far as the diplexer question. The sat signal is fed through a diplexer prior to entering the 722. One to Sat1 and one to Sat2. The "Home Distribution" coax out is used to feed TV2. In addition, futher down the line this TV2 coax is combined with and OTA signal prior to connecting to TV2. I am checking on firmware updates for both the 722 and the Mitz TV. (A while back I did a firmware update on it via a thumb drive.) THANKS AGAIN for all of the help... I wish I could talk at the level you guys are at, but much like scheiderichdmd mentioned, you are talking way above my head with the details. Please bare with me. Solid State I will check out the links you provided above... my lunch is only so long so likely I will have to take a look at them again tonight. |
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Post by solidstate on Jan 25, 2010 18:22:33 GMT -5
power inverters? Polarity switching is done via 18 or 13V via "legacy" standard. Dishpro plus doesn't need it due to band stacking and the receive always sends a constant 19v I believe. This URL should clarify. www.dbsinstall.com/Dish_network/dishnetwork_lnb-switch_tech.aspHe is incorrect though in saying that DPP uses voltage polarity switching. How the hell he figures that works through a separator down a single segment is beyond me... What if PVR has tuner one right handed and tuner two left handed pal! Also the legacy voltage polarity switching backwards compatibility is done inside the DPP44 switch to receiver not on the DPP44 to LNB trunk. Actually that guy is wrong about a bunch of stuff at the end of the article LOL . Legacy lnb's with power inserters that lock it onto a certain voltage to get wither the odd or even transponders depending on if you want right hand or left hand polarity. It all boils down to what channels you want an offf what sat. orbitals. After running all this into a older multi switch. you must then decide how many IRD's you need. YOu may split off with 8 IRD's off a port that has 110 odd transponders. You then would tun the IRD's to the specific stations then run them into a modulator to say make dish network channel 38 as channel 3. and so on. You then run a signal combiner off all IRDS. And walaa!!!!! You can now just switch the channel at the tv......no IRD in the room and be watching channels from everywhere and different subscribers. Like I said this is how alot of Hotels are running. ALot of them dont have cable but a set up like this. It is in essence a minature headend system. I know its confusing and has nothing to do with the first poster. I was just rambling on last night and wanted to try to clarify it today. I understand what your saying. Great way to do an MDU with multiple dishes. "He is incorrect though in saying that DPP uses voltage polarity switching..." There I was talking about the article in the link not your comments. I know DPP can do voltage polarity switching due to it's backwards compatibility but it doesn't do this when your using a dishpro plus PVR receiver with separator. Though a diplexer it's a little different than the simple passive CATV/UHF units as it sends diseqc 2.0 22khz done data for polarity switching as well as the bandstacked l-band diplexing. It does this in order to know on what low or high band to send left or right hand polarity on. It's a fantastic solution and I use it heavily for Bell TV. Most installs I do I try hard to suggest the customer use a DPP Twin LNB over two twin leggacy with SW21/SW44. It so simplifies the cabling specially if you need to run a twin tuner PVR as only one segment is needed. The fact that Bell doesn't officially use it show what a bunch of jerks they are. The legacy stuff is crap really IMHO and I got sick of SW21 failures. The DPP twins seem bulletproof at this point for me and my customers. Also the 50' of increased IFL segment official distance limits really helps! I have one running on 400' of Belden 1829bc solid copper core and with my SuperBuddy I measured 16.5v at the LNB with a draw of about 380ma at the receiver. Friggin incredible and no way I could do that with legacy! Solid-State |
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Jan 25, 2010 18:56:01 GMT -5
I misunderstood what or who you were talking about. Anyways. your right legacy 21 switches suck. lol So any luck with the first poster and his UMC problem. SOunds like another glitch with the umc that may need ironed out. Im glad I took myself off the first pre order list. I will wait and someday down the road get the xmc after it bugs are worked out.
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Post by dvcdude on Jan 26, 2010 6:48:40 GMT -5
just out of curiousity, have you tried using a component video and digital audio to UMC-1. This will eliminate the handshake issue. UMC-1 can process video from component to HDMI.
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Eskimo
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Post by Eskimo on Jan 26, 2010 10:26:59 GMT -5
A while back, Solidstate talked about being able to share saved DVR content over ethernet?!?!
That would be abso-f'n-lutely brilliant for my setup as I've been dreading having to cut a hole through the floor to run a 100' HDMI cable from the main floor down into the basement where the theater is...
Time to go searching for how to enable this!!
My setup is a VIP722 on the main floor, connected via HDMI to a plasma there. TV2 out runs (dual mode) to a TV upstairs in the bedroom via RCA composite, and uses the RF remote to control. The theater has a VIP211 (HD, non-DVR) connected to the UMC-1. Both receivers are connected into my home network.
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Post by scheiderichdmd on Jan 26, 2010 10:37:37 GMT -5
dvcdude,
I hadn't thought of that. Thanks. You are absolutely correct, and I will be able to run everything through one input on the TV. And since Dish only transmits to 1080i, I won't be losing anything. Only negative is a few extra cables in the rat's nest. I'll try that tonight when I get back home.
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Post by xc967 on Jan 26, 2010 13:04:07 GMT -5
I currently install Dish and although I don't have an answer, I can confirm this has happened to another Dish customer with a 722 and he did not have a UMC but I don't remember what he had for TV and receiver. I don't know if this was ever resolved, sorry.
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Post by solidstate on Jan 26, 2010 17:52:07 GMT -5
A while back, Solidstate talked about being able to share saved DVR content over ethernet?!?! That would be abso-f'n-lutely brilliant for my setup as I've been dreading having to cut a hole through the floor to run a 100' HDMI cable from the main floor down into the basement where the theater is... Time to go searching for how to enable this!! My setup is a VIP722 on the main floor, connected via HDMI to a plasma there. TV2 out runs (dual mode) to a TV upstairs in the bedroom via RCA composite, and uses the RF remote to control. The theater has a VIP211 (HD, non-DVR) connected to the UMC-1. Both receivers are connected into my home network. I don't know if that feature is still enabled though due to the ongoing Tivo lawsuit. Also they have signed deals with slingbox so they might have disabled this for future sling based technology. Easy to check though. Just plug both of them into your LAN and lease an IP for each via menu. Then see if the second receiver can see the first one that's a PVR. It should appear under "Multimedia" section of the menu like a USB thumb drive will with say photos etc. I don't know the model numbers for this down there but it's the same as a Bell 9241 or 9242 PVR with a 6131 non PVR HD receiver (though it can be a PVR with external HD). There is another feature a lot of people don't know is actually built into the system. Check it out it's called "dishcomm" and is PAN based. Actually dish has come very cool technology built into the latest generation units. Most everything has been thought out. Problem is the FCC and these bloody PVR lawsuits. Solid-State |
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Post by nashty1 on Jan 26, 2010 21:29:55 GMT -5
An udpate on the original post issue...
I checked today on a couple of items. 1) I am currently running the latest firmware available for my DISH 772k. 2) The people at DISH seemed to be aware of this issue but didn't say it was "their" issue (or the UMC's) and only offered the suggestion of using component out and toslink for audio. Not really an acceptable solution in my mind. They also stated that they felt this was an HDMI "handshake" issue. 3) I also checked to make sure I am running the latest firmware available on my Mitsubishi TV. (I didn't really think this was it, but checked anyway.)
So this leaves me hoping that the UMC firmware update will somehow solve this issue. At the moment I don't see any other solutions? It seems that there are other UMC owners with HDMI handshake issues as well. Not the same exact situation as mine, but issues none the less. I can't believe that this is strictly a DISH 722k problem. If it was I would imagine the DISH tech line would be fielding TONS of calls regarding it. The number of customers feeding HDMI to a AV processor has to be numerous.
A stupid question, but would running the HDMI cable through another source and/or splitter before the UMC somehow buffer the HDMI handshake thing? Possibly eliminate the issue with the UMC?
Your continued thoughts on this one are appreciated!
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Post by scheiderichdmd on Jan 26, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
I went ahead and hooked up component, and toslink from the dish reciever, and everything works flawlessly. The UMC will up-convert the signal to 1080p, and send to to my TV Through the single HDMI out cable. Seeing that dish does not transmit 1080p or HD audio, nothing is lost in quality. Hope this helps.
Mark
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