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Post by dotvibe on Feb 10, 2010 7:48:04 GMT -5
Right,
This discussion was started in the SW update thread but was rightly punted out for being off-topic. In the recent firmware update, the UMC-1's "Stereo" option was changed from All Channel" only to "2 Channel" only. This was done because of the number of complaints Emo staff received because of the lack of 2 channel stereo. Quite a few of us hope that this will be changed in a future software revision and that we will be offered a choice between the two.
Big Dan suggested using PLIIx as a substitute for all channel stereo music listening, and it's not a bad suggestion. However, the way I understand the stereo setting to be, whether All Channel or 2 Channel, it should be DSP-less and direct. On some sources I would prefer this setting, and I would prefer to use "All Channel" stereo direct.
One of the applications I have in mind is for listening to vinyl. This is an area I've entered into rather recently, so I'm still reading up quite a lot and learning a lot, but musically the principals remain the same. I realise the UMC-1 has no phono input, but at the moment I'm using a Rotel pre-amp and am currently investigating the possiblity of investing in a Hagerman or Bottlehead tube phono pre-amp to use with my UMC-1.
The notion of using all channel stereo with something as sacrosant as the "vinyl experience" seems to have offended a member or 2 (hi mischief ! ;D) who recon that if you are going to it, do it right. Or, do it 2 channel.
Anyway, that's more or less where it left off from the main UMC SW update thread. posting this under processors is maybe still a little off topic, but let's continue the discussion. Who's in for the return of all channel stereo !
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 10, 2010 8:36:07 GMT -5
dotvibe, While I don't use ACS as much as I used to. I am of the "kitchen sink" philosophy. I would very much like to have access to it. Right now my HT is in a very small living room in an old farm house so 2ch is working fine. However, I am only in this house for another ~yr while I finish up a Phd. My next house will definitely have a much larger open livingroom or dedicated space. I think it would be great to have ACS for the occasions (say thanksgiving/birthdays) where I need music to play at softer volumes from all channels around the room. I know the processed DSP will do this, but I prefer the ACS usually for this kind of thing. Long story short, I don't HAVE to have it, but it would be welcome. I certainly won't base my opinion of the UMC-1 on this as I only use it on rare occasions. And heck, depending on where I end up and my eventual salary, I might just spring for some Emo gear for whole house audio.  |
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Post by Mischief on Feb 10, 2010 9:09:17 GMT -5
OK, as the harbinger of this doom, I want to apologize for my comments last night. While I do believe that stereo encoded music should be listened to as intended (much like a film should be viewed in its original aspect ratio) it is none of my business how people listen to their music.
What pushed me over the edge (with the assistance of a very good single malt scotch) was the gripe that the USP-1 is somehow failing people because this specific option isn't available.
My opinion of how music should be listened to when dedicating time to the experience is just that, my opinion. I will happily throw my opinion into the ring here, where it is appropriate.
If I have offended anyone, I again apologize.
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 10, 2010 9:18:10 GMT -5
OK, as the harbinger of this doom, I want to apologize for my comments last night. While I do believe that stereo encoded music should be listened to as intended (much like a film should be viewed in its original aspect ratio) it is none of my business how people listen to their music. What pushed me over the edge (with the assistance of a very good single malt scotch) was the gripe that the USP-1 is somehow failing people because this specific option isn't available. My opinion of how music should be listened to when dedicating time to the experience is just that, my opinion. I will happily throw my opinion into the ring here, where it is appropriate. If I have offended anyone, I again apologize. Mischief, No offense here. I respect and understand your perspective . I think we all have (or should have) thick enough skin to take differing opinions  . Chris |
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Feb 10, 2010 9:22:53 GMT -5
Right now, I like my Outlaw 970....offers choice of 2, 5, or 7 channel stereo. I can also choose whether to listen to multichannel audio with DD, DTS, or DPL processing. Being that this processor came out several years ago, you would think that newer processors would at least offer these options also?
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 10, 2010 9:23:38 GMT -5
i actually think he was right, but "party mode" is something I would use on occasion. I hate the term all channel stereo.  No offense taken. Don't really think anyone here is still mad. (hope not) |
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Post by Mischief on Feb 10, 2010 9:40:34 GMT -5
I agree that party mode is really nice and there are a lot of options available, including DPL versions.
I understand that many units use the kitchen sink approach and that is fine. The problem with this approach is that the more you cram in, the lower the potential performance of the unit. In many cases, the SQ is secondary to the number of features a company can shoehorn in.
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cappy
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Post by cappy on Feb 10, 2010 12:11:20 GMT -5
I would like to see this as well. We have a large living area and with this I can keep the volume at a more comfortable level overall.
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Post by rooster on Feb 10, 2010 12:36:33 GMT -5
i personally don't understand the appeal of all channel stereo. how does that present a soundstage? what is played through the center channel? i guess i can see its use if you just want some background music on.
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Post by wowfactor on Feb 10, 2010 12:46:59 GMT -5
Old school here... While having ACS available as an option would be fine, I personally feel vinyl and 2 channel go hand in hand... I also agree with mischief; " that the more you cram in, the lower the potential performance of the unit".
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Post by Woodpecker on Feb 10, 2010 13:01:44 GMT -5
Right now, I like my Outlaw 970....offers choice of 2, 5, or 7 channel stereo. I can also choose whether to listen to multichannel audio with DD, DTS, or DPL processing. Being that this processor came out several years ago, you would think that newer processors would at least offer these options also? Exactly. There should be all the above options. None of which would deteriorate any sound by simply having more options. Who here doesn't want more options? |
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Post by wowfactor on Feb 10, 2010 13:05:07 GMT -5
Right now, I like my Outlaw 970....offers choice of 2, 5, or 7 channel stereo. I can also choose whether to listen to multichannel audio with DD, DTS, or DPL processing. Being that this processor came out several years ago, you would think that newer processors would at least offer these options also? Exactly. There should be all the above options. None of which would deteriorate any sound by simply having more options. Who here doesn't want more options? More options are always welcome as long as they don't degrade sound quality! That's the problem with a lot of companies.. They give you toys....but they sacrafice the quality... |
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Post by pynchon on Feb 10, 2010 13:15:45 GMT -5
I do listen to 2-channel at times because I enjoy the sound of just my mains on certain cds.
In music (e.g., radiohead) that uses multichannel during recording and funnel a number of different sounds through I do use party or some kind of music surround (on my lexicon I actually like using cathedral sometimes - talk about impure!).
To me - if you want pure output then you use 2 channel - if you want multi channel output I really don't see too much difference between using pl2X rather than acs since acs is usually seen as a poor output choice to begin with (thus the name "party" mode)
In my lexicon manual it even states not to use party mode unless you are having a loud party and just want to shoot the same input to all your speakers, not caring about nuances of the actual performance.
But if there's a limit to the # of bells and whistles the umc-1 can offer, then offering a fw update down the road where people can convert back to acs and sacrifice 2 channel would seem to be a good alternative to satisfy everyone.
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Post by Mischief on Feb 10, 2010 16:14:35 GMT -5
Several of you have hit upon a common problem. Much of the music recorded today (or in some cases remastered in recent years) is purposely done at the highest possible level, creating terribly compressed and horrible sounding audio. This is done, in part to make it louder when played through an iPod or other similar system. If you have a well calibrated system, this music can sound terrible in a dedicated listening situation. It sounds fine as background music, a good system will really shine a light on poor discs though.
I generally only listen to such music in the car or on my iPod.
Another note... The reason people move away from an AVR to separates is to limit the number of options stuffed in each box. While a single playback mode may not impact sound quality directly, packing a bunch in can.
The focus on separates, in my opinion, should be on sound quality, first and foremost. Additional features are great, as long as each one has the smallest possible impact. Since the UMC-1 is a pre/pro, there is an expectation of being feature rich without cutting quality. It is a fine line to walk. It is also why the USP-1 exists, the best possible sound is provided by the shortest and most unhindered analog line between equipment.
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Post by Woodpecker on Feb 10, 2010 17:03:14 GMT -5
Just how will adding a few descrete options degrade sound quality?
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Post by tjb4141 on Feb 10, 2010 17:11:43 GMT -5
There are many people who like all channels driven like myself, and then there are some who do not like it at all. Keep the feature in the UMC and allow people to select it or not. That simple
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Post by nickwin on Feb 10, 2010 17:22:39 GMT -5
I also think its a bit weird that the UMC-1 doesn't have the option for all channel stereo, but what really blows my mind is that prior to the update, it didn't have the option for 2 channel stereo! I cant imagine a company making a pre/pro with no stereo output, especially when that pre/pro is suppose to excel in SQ. I wonder if this was intentional or an oversight?
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Post by snodog on Feb 10, 2010 17:33:40 GMT -5
I definitely hope they update this because I do like to listen in multichannel audio. I am a sculptor and listen as I work, it isnt always practical for me to be facing the front of my room when working and is just a nice smoother mix when I am further away. I sure hope they change this, I too had the Outlaw 970 briefly and it did a great job with the multichannel.
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Post by gordon58 on Feb 10, 2010 17:47:49 GMT -5
I'm from the old school where stereo=two ;D I've never taken a liking to all the different formats available. Cathedral? Don't have much pipe organ music!
Most of the multi channel mixes I've heard seemed too processed and fake to be of any benefit to me.
Gordon
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Post by Mischief on Feb 10, 2010 17:47:50 GMT -5
The UMC-1 manual, pages 21-22 contain a very impressive list of all channel music options, along with versions specific to 5 and 7 channel. It also has 8 all channel DSP music modes, does it really need another all channel stereo DSP?
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