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Post by KrellAV on Mar 9, 2010 10:37:53 GMT -5
the same way. I am not a big fan of EQ. I know it can help tame a room and has provided value for some applications based on others feedback here and on other forums.
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Post by jitclint on Mar 9, 2010 14:24:20 GMT -5
thelordoftherings, I posted an ad on craigslist locally and 1 hour later I got an offer. I sold it last night for $2000.00 for the two stratos mono extremes (new one with red C.boards) and the Tempest Pre. He got a great deal because I paid quite a bit more than that for the setup! He called me this morning complaining about a hum in the Tempest and I had to explain how the Tempest always had a transformer hum that I didn't like, Klause said it's a known flaw to get sometimes and would upgrade to a newer transfer for $200.00 but I decided not to, the hum was never in the music..... just the unit if standing by it. He's not very happy with the hum so I gave him Klause contact info. Craigslist is a great place to sell things! As I'm finding out! I'm happy I've sold it to have the extra space back!  |
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satow
Minor Hero
Posts: 76
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Post by satow on Mar 9, 2010 14:24:29 GMT -5
Oh, I better mention my speakers. My front mains are Epos ELS-3's on Epos ST-35 stands. They sound great with my Creek A42 and I'm looking for the same type of performance and audio quality. I tend to listen to a wide genre of music - female voices, jazz, classical, power rock hair bands, world music, etc. My old system was a SE OTL Transcendent amp on a pair of Klipsch La Scalas with ALK eng. X overs.
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Post by jitclint on Mar 9, 2010 14:36:47 GMT -5
I have alot of experience with Klipsch speakers. I have Klipschorn's, RF-7, KLF-20, Cornwall, Super C Walls, and LaScalas. I used to have a pair of Forte II but sold those recently. The Emotiva sounds great with any of these Klipsch speakers I have. The Odyssey sounds a bit cold with these speakers and sound stage can seem limited with these speakers with the Odyssey compared to the Emotiva. The Odyssey did go well with a pair of Wharfendale Opus I have.
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edmondwolfman
Emo VIPs 
Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At
Posts: 332
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Post by edmondwolfman on Mar 9, 2010 16:24:19 GMT -5
with Edmond on the sonic signatures between the Yamaha and the Denon receivers. I recently sold a Yamaha RX-V3800 ($1600) after about a year. It is very harsh to my ears and could only stand a very short period of listening to it. Thank goodness it was in a BR. After selling it, I bought the Denon AVR-4810 and this is an outstanding receiver! Smooth, detailed and powerful for a receiver. I am mating it with a UPA-5 as soon as I can get time to connect it. I am curious to here the difference in the sound of the internal amps versus the UPA. As has been mentioned by several in this thread, there are many products out there and each has their signature sound that appeals to folks. Happy listening! KrellAV Now that you mention the 3800 it jogged my memory. The Yammy 3800 is what I was comparing the Denon 3808 to. I never said the Yammy wasn't good, heck I had my choices narrowed down to those 2 receivers, it's just in the setting where they were and everything the same, apples to apples, the Denon just didn't sound as bright to me. I used a Pioneer previously and I like Pioneer also but when I was looking for a receiver the Pioneer lacked a couple of features that I was looking for. |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 9, 2010 19:55:52 GMT -5
^ I agree with the poster above; if it would have been me, at that time, between the Denon AVR-3808CI and the Yamaha RX-V3800, I would have also picked the Denon. The Yammy 3800 receiver has a flawed video processor (BtB & WtW issues from the ABT-1010 VP, or more precisely, below-black and above-white information are being clipped from the video signal). The Yammy 3900 rectified that problem with the much better and excellent ABT-2010 VP. By the way, the Denon 3808 has the old Genesis/Faroudja FLI-2310 VP solution. Its more glaring issue is that it was not designed to process HD video signals. It will not do proper 3:2 or 2:2 deinterlacing of 1080i sources or motion-adaptive processing of video-based HD sources. "1080i analog sources that the AVR-3808CI converted to HDMI showed obviously reduced video quality due to improper HD deinterlacing. Both the horizontal luma and chroma resolution were rolled off, resulting in softness and a loss of fine object detail. The scaling quality was also quite poor, with obvious ringing and interference". Audio wise, I believe the Yammy 3900 has the overall edge, both for Music & Movies. This is from my personal experience after having both in my room. Cheers to you Edmond, LOTR |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 9, 2010 20:18:45 GMT -5
Can an owner of the Odyssey Khartago stereo amplifier confirm if the transformer in that amp is humming or not?
* I believe not myself.
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Post by frogman122 on Oct 27, 2015 16:41:13 GMT -5
Just heard the kismet mono's, and man do they shame the xpa-1's, highs, mids, tighter bass, better over all presentation, even at high volume, those little 200w amps best my 500w mono's. How is this possible? I brought my amps to a couple towns over to compare them, and I was shocked, how can a amp with with much much less watts sound better, and have much better sound than my 1000w at 4 ohm mono's??? I'm dumbfounded by this. Help me understand. I'm not getting rid of my xpa-1's, but how can an amp with such a small output do this to my xpa-1's?
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2015 16:53:50 GMT -5
Just heard the kismet mono's, and man do they shame the xpa-1's, highs, mids, tighter bass, better over all presentation, even at high volume, those little 200w amps best my 500w mono's. How is this possible? I brought my amps to a couple towns over to compare them, and I was shocked, how can a amp with with much much less watts sound better, and have much better sound than my 1000w at 4 ohm mono's??? I'm dumbfounded by this. Help me understand. I'm not getting rid of my xpa-1's, but how can an amp with such a small output do this to my xpa-1's? Well,,,,,,,,lets see,,,,,,,,, you moved your amps not the Odyssey amps? Thats what Ive gathered from your post. Hummmmm,,,,,,, Maybe,,, speakers, room, acoustics, gear,   Move the amps to your room,,,,,,and get back to me.  |
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Post by vneal on Oct 27, 2015 17:05:21 GMT -5
Why not go to the Odyssey sight and ask the same question. Frankly I never heard of this line. Going to their website it looks like a well made product. I think the bright face color options are a little odd. There are many good amps out there for a price. Personally I think you would be hard pressed to beat the Emotiva at their price points
The only way to compare an amp to another amp is side by side with the same gear
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Post by garbulky on Oct 27, 2015 17:15:11 GMT -5
Do you use a preamp with your xpa-1? The emo amps like their preamps
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Post by teaman on Oct 27, 2015 17:16:03 GMT -5
There are some people who prefer the sound of a 2 watt tube amp over 500 watt amps as well. It is all a matter of what you are looking for. Every amp will sound a bit different in different surroundings as well so listening in a room at a electronics shop may sound totally different in the man cave.
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Post by brutiarti on Oct 27, 2015 17:48:04 GMT -5
Do you use a preamp with your xpa-1? The emo amps like their preamps +1 For my speakers at least the xpr-2 and the xsp-1 was one of a hell combination. |
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Post by yves on Oct 27, 2015 21:28:24 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Oct 28, 2015 2:00:57 GMT -5
The importance of the damping factor specification is certainly a subject of dispute in this hobby. I only mention this so others reading this thread will understand that there are differing opinions on this and that many very highly regarded amps have damping factors below 250 or so. Emotiva XPA-2 ... DF - 200 Krell 600 ($15,000) ... DF - 270 Musical Fidelity Titan ($30,000) ... DF - 250 Pass Labs XA 30.5 ($5500) ... DF - 150 McIntosh MC501 ($4100) ... DF - 100 I recently read an article about amplifier THD (total harmonic distortion) where the writer mentioned: "Amplifiers are rated based on average power. It is not unusual for me to play music on my system (quite loud) at 10 Watts average power (based on an eyeball estimate from an oscilloscope display of the voltage at the speaker terminals). One of the music samples used here played at an average power of 10 Watts would require a peak power of over 800 Watts! Clipping is not at all uncommon." (Sorry, this is from a post I made some time ago. I can't find the exact author of this right now but I can confirm it was from an engineer doing detailed research on amplifier distortion). I feel the need for instantaneous peak power in high volume playback of modern music and movie soundtracks can frequently be significantly greater than the 150 watts that you mention, especially with medium to low efficiency speakers. ;D Some say a DF of 50 is adequate. When you start adding in ALL the other pieces of the puzzle, like Real Wires and Crossovers, DF real-world is a LOT lower than the 'advertised' value. Don't forget some of the really large horn speakers don't need a DF over 5 or so, and frequency even MUCH less. Woofer damping in addition to the amp allowing the woofer to short itself out (back EMF) has a lot to do with the design / size of the enclosure vs the T/S parameters of the woofer. As for crest factor? I've been told 20db is pretty high. That's what? 200 watt peaks against 10 watts continuous? And yes, Bob Carver did some research years ago and came up with some pretty amazing demand numbers. He used this as justification for amps like his M1.0t, quite the power house in its day. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 6:15:09 GMT -5
...And he is totally right when he says amplifiers are just parts. Better parts = better amplifier... Alas, I'm not convinced. If it were this simple, then I could take a 1970's Akai integrated amplifier, switch out all the parts for the best available, and have a world-class product. NOT! The design plays into the sound as well. Massive global feedback for lowered distortion numbers does not a better amplifier make. Knowing WHERE to spend money on better parts can make a difference, but without a good design to start with, the parts are just wasted money. So it might be fair to say "other things being equal, better parts = better amplifier." But those "other things" never are... Boomzilla And the next amplifiers I try will be Odyssey Stratos ones. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 28, 2015 11:00:15 GMT -5
Some parts may sound better. Some may LAST LONGER. MTBF is important and a measure of reliability. If 2 companies made the SAME amp from the SAME schematic, one using cheap stuff, the OTHER using Premium parts, how much different would the sound be? I don't know if THAT much different. WHat I would expect would be the amp with premium parts would LAST longer.
I DO know that components like Carbon Resistors don't last OR sound as good as thin film types. Some capacitor dielectrics also have a signature, with maybe teflon or some Poly being preferred.
And don't forget, you are Paying for that huge warranty UP FRONT.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 28, 2015 15:46:25 GMT -5
In theory, there would be no difference between a ¼ watt, plus or minus 20% carbon composite resistor and a 2-watt, 1%-tolerance metal film one provided that they were both run within their design limits. In practice, the carbon composite might be (or might not be) measurably more noisy, but the difference would not likely be audible.
For capacitors, however, I can CLEARLY hear the difference between tantalum, non-polarized electrolytic, and film capacitors. This is not to say that one is "better" than the other - it depends on the application, but there are differences.
For tube electronics, my experience was that "premium" parts ALWAYS provided better reliability (mostly due to over-rating), and sometimes provided better sound as well. If the design required a 400-volt capacitor, I'd use a 600-volt or even an 800-volt one if there was physically room. For critical resistor applications, I'd use the highest wattage-rated part that would physically fit and with the tightest tolerance available to me. To my knowledge, all of the units that I modified (late 1970's to mid 1980's) are still in service with nothing but power supply capacitor replacements.
Using over-rated, tight-tolerance, and premium-quality parts is a quick way to run up the production cost of a mass-produced consumer electronic. But using such parts as a modification can pay dividends in durability and sound quality.
Boom
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Post by leonski on Oct 28, 2015 16:50:16 GMT -5
And than there is stuff like OPAMPS of which some are 'audiophile' and nearly All are very inexpensive. For a couple bucks you can have the 'best' without compromise. Better sound? Better MTBF? Fewer Returns?
Must Slightly disagree about carbon composite resistors. I THINK they are prone to absorbe moisture. This is BAD, especially if you are in a humid climate. I think the SUM of using a bunch of such resistors in the signal path should be audible. I would NOT use them unless thin film or wire wound (non-inductive?) were possible.
And while it is slightly off-subject, their are MANY sub-standard 'counterfeit' parts being sold. I'll bet 80% of the Black Gates on EPray are FAKE and even at the 'bargain basement' price, Too Expensive. Many, Many Semiconductors, too. Some companies MAY have a black market leak where parts which fail 'final' are actually shipped out the back door to UnScrupulous Venders. Ask me how I KNOW this happens.
And I think the final test would be to have an amp of known, good quality and sound KNOCKED OFF by somebody using the SAME SCHEMATIC and a less-premium (let's be generous, here) parts selection. I wonder who could tell the difference? How much difference? Would the knock-off last or simply be junk in a couple months? Warranty Service? Iffy, at best.
And lastly, one of the things I look at when inspecting the interior of any piece of electronics are the Circuit Boards. I've fixed both good boards of G-10 / FR-4 and the 'other' stuff which appears to be made of compressed masonite scrap. The good boards cost more and are Vastly More fixable. And once the OTHER stuff 'zaps', you're all-in. Those carbon tracks conduct and you must either take a dremel and remove all the charcoal or bridge the trace with a piece of wire. Awful….with to me, unknown audio consequencies. I was fixing production machinery.
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Oct 28, 2015 19:53:13 GMT -5
Do you use a preamp with your xpa-1? The emo amps like their preamps +1. The XPR-1's with the XSP-1 preamp combo took my breath away but both components paired with gear from other manufacturers the synergy wasn't there. I'm not a fanboy but the emo amps sound better paired with their preamp and wired up in a balanced setup |
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