jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Oct 17, 2010 8:43:09 GMT -5
And if so are the international buyers going to get ripped off again? The preceeding discussions were of such high quality and instructive, that this comment just does not belong. I don't think that Emo 'ripped off' anyone. It possibly was a design error that made the tuner not configurable to some foreign markets. Ripping off someone is a conscious decision to deceive that person. That is not what I know of Emo. Every buyer has 30 days to return the unit for a full refund. Anyone who keeps it accept the error. They were not deceived. jamrock
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Oct 17, 2010 9:41:03 GMT -5
Well maybe being a little more upfront with international orders, such as telling them that the tuner will not work in their country, would decrease the negative feelings from across the pond. Maybe a few words on the product page indicating the limitation, or maybe in the manual. No mention anywhere.
You so easily say "just return it", you obviously have no idea what the financial penalties are to do that for international users.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Oct 17, 2010 10:20:05 GMT -5
Well maybe being a little more upfront with international orders, such as telling them that the tuner will not work in their country, would decrease the negative feelings from across the pond. Maybe a few words on the product page indicating the limitation, or maybe in the manual. No mention anywhere. You so easily say "just return it", you obviously have no idea what the financial penalties are to do that for international users. I don't disagree with disclosures in general. And, the more the better. However, there is also the personal responsibility of the buyer. I believe that the consumer should ask questions about the operability of any product when purchasing it from inside a foreign country. If buying a foreign made product from a distributor/retailer inside their own country, then I better appreciate the blind faith purchase. I would never buy a power amplifier from England, Germany, etc. without first knowing that it can operate safely with the electrical system in the USA. And, get a written, satisfactory return & refund policy before plunking down my money. When I travel to a foreign country, I always carry my electrical adaptor. I don't do that when travel across the USA AS to your last statement, you are absolutely correct. I made the grand assumption that it was the same as local. However, if the foreign purchaser does not get a full refund for shipping costs, then the need all the more to be an educated consumer before you make the purchase. However, I believe that Emo fully refunds shipping for the internal buyer. The only exception are the tariff charges. With all that being said, I still don't think that it was appropriate to allege that Emo 'ripped off' anyone! To the moderator: I promise that I will get back on topic with my next post. ;D jamrock
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Post by visiter555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:35:21 GMT -5
And if so are the international buyers going to get ripped off again? The preceeding discussions were of such high quality and instructive, that this comment just does not belong. I don't think that Emo 'ripped off' anyone. It possibly was a design error that made the tuner not configurable to some foreign markets. Ripping off someone is a conscious decision to deceive that person. That is not what I know of Emo. Every buyer has 30 days to return the unit for a full refund. Anyone who keeps it accept the error. They were not deceived. jamrock Nice response but totally unrealestic if you are non continental US where the return cost can be close to the original price. Unfortunately this is a typical response from those that live in the US that do not consider the additional fees that others have to pay in addition to the purchase of the unit.
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Post by visiter555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:39:38 GMT -5
Well maybe being a little more upfront with international orders, such as telling them that the tuner will not work in their country, would decrease the negative feelings from across the pond. Maybe a few words on the product page indicating the limitation, or maybe in the manual. No mention anywhere. You so easily say "just return it", you obviously have no idea what the financial penalties are to do that for international users. I don't disagree with disclosures in general. And, the more the better. However, there is also the personal responsibility of the buyer. I believe that the consumer should ask questions about the operability of any product when purchasing it from inside a foreign country. If buying a foreign made product from a distributor/retailer inside their own country, then I better appreciate the blind faith purchase. I would never buy a power amplifier from England, Germany, etc. without first knowing that it can operate safely with the electrical system in the USA. And, get a written, satisfactory return & refund policy before plunking down my money. When I travel to a foreign country, I always carry my electrical adaptor. I don't do that when travel across the USA AS to your last statement, you are absolutely correct. I made the grand assumption that it was the same as local. However, if the foreign purchaser does not get a full refund for shipping costs, then the need all the more to be an educated consumer before you make the purchase. However, I believe that Emo fully refunds shipping for the internal buyer. The only exception are the tariff charges. With all that being said, I still don't think that it was appropriate to allege that Emo 'ripped off' anyone! To the moderator: I promise that I will get back on topic with my next post. ;D jamrock You can believe what you want, Emo does NOT refund the shipping costs for international customers. As a matter of fact they don't pay and shipping costs for international customers on warranty issues, though they will work with the client and ship parts. Personally I would like to see the XMC-1 have some modular components (video??) that are quick swap incase of upgrade or problems.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Oct 17, 2010 11:28:31 GMT -5
Well maybe being a little more upfront with international orders, such as telling them that the tuner will not work in their country, would decrease the negative feelings from across the pond. Maybe a few words on the product page indicating the limitation, or maybe in the manual. No mention anywhere. You so easily say "just return it", you obviously have no idea what the financial penalties are to do that for international users. I also suspect the chip is perfectly capable of tuning to finer frequencies and may even support RDS, it may just be "implementation time" that is the culprit, it would be nice to hear from Emotiva if this is the case and that we can hope for an improvement with the tuner when the "more pressing" issues have been resolved. Ditto with the specs for the XMC tuner.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Oct 17, 2010 11:32:46 GMT -5
Well maybe being a little more upfront with international orders, such as telling them that the tuner will not work in their country, would decrease the negative feelings from across the pond. Maybe a few words on the product page indicating the limitation, or maybe in the manual. No mention anywhere. You so easily say "just return it", you obviously have no idea what the financial penalties are to do that for international users. I don't disagree with disclosures in general. And, the more the better. However, there is also the personal responsibility of the buyer. I believe that the consumer should ask questions about the operability of any product when purchasing it from inside a foreign country. If buying a foreign made product from a distributor/retailer inside their own country, then I better appreciate the blind faith purchase. I would never buy a power amplifier from England, Germany, etc. without first knowing that it can operate safely with the electrical system in the USA. And, get a written, satisfactory return & refund policy before plunking down my money. When I travel to a foreign country, I always carry my electrical adaptor. I don't do that when travel across the USA AS to your last statement, you are absolutely correct. I made the grand assumption that it was the same as local. However, if the foreign purchaser does not get a full refund for shipping costs, then the need all the more to be an educated consumer before you make the purchase. However, I believe that Emo fully refunds shipping for the internal buyer. The only exception are the tariff charges. With all that being said, I still don't think that it was appropriate to allege that Emo 'ripped off' anyone! To the moderator: I promise that I will get back on topic with my next post. ;D jamrock I agree that you do need to be a little more careful when buying overseas, in this case though, something as simple as an FM radio is not the sort of thing you would ask "does this work in Europe". You just expect it to. There are full tuners (with RDS) on mobile phones these days and RDS in a $40 mini systems. I do agree that "ripped off" is a bit strong, but again, a little clarification about the future or more detail on the spec page would help. So back on topic ...
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Oct 17, 2010 12:04:06 GMT -5
Yea, yea, yea! I know. Everybody else is responsible except me. I am buying something from outside my country but I have no obligation to do diligence. Somebody else should anticipate my needs and inform me. Self victimization is international too!
The only part of the blame visible is what can be dumped on the manufacturer. There are over 166 countries in the world. Anyone knows how many of those countries' radio transmission systems are compatible with the UMC-1. And which is easier, for Emo put this info for each country on the product page, or for the buyer to simply ask the question at or before the time of purchase?
Caveat: Make sure you address this issue, identify, address and resolve any other needs specific to your country of operation before you buy the XMC-1
Peace out!
jamrock
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Post by billmac on Oct 17, 2010 13:53:08 GMT -5
Are you for real . You post that Emotiva refunds shipping to international customers which you are dead wrong about and you are taking about due diligence. Have you not read the many posts from members outside of the US that have commented about the shipping charges and fees associated with buying Emotiva products? Instead of saying "oh my bad I was wrong" you post some nonsense about how there are 166 countries in the world . In other words you are implying that if someone outside of the US buys an Emotiva product and there is an issue its their fault. Address what issue? What is there to address? How would a buyer of any product know if there will be issues with functionality if the product is not fully tested or if all the functions are not known to be working as intended? Once again you throw it on the buyer where the responsibility should be on the company selling a specific product. That is that the product will function properly for international customers who are buying it before shipping said product. Bill
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Post by 2muchht on Oct 17, 2010 14:04:44 GMT -5
A little responsibility is due on both sides:
Emo is US based and for that reason, if I was purchasing from another country where there are specific technical or regulatory requirements (such as a tuner with proper spacing, proper power supply voltage, the correct safety and emmissions standards compliance, etc.), I'd want to ask if everything was correct for where I was located before ordering. As the buyer, that is on ME.
Onthe other hand, seeing that this is a matter of concern to customers, Emo should take the few extra bits to note inthe product specs that the unit is applicable in certain areas, and does not comply with whatever for other countries. Easy for them to do, and they'd be silly not to.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Oct 17, 2010 15:12:51 GMT -5
A little responsibility is due on both sides: Emo is US based and for that reason, if I was purchasing from another country where there are specific technical or regulatory requirements (such as a tuner with proper spacing, proper power supply voltage, the correct safety and emmissions standards compliance, etc.), I'd want to ask if everything was correct for where I was located before ordering. As the buyer, that is on ME. Onthe other hand, seeing that this is a matter of concern to customers, Emo should take the few extra bits to note inthe product specs that the unit is applicable in certain areas, and does not comply with whatever for other countries. Easy for them to do, and they'd be silly not to. Hey Bill: Can you find anything wrong with the above post? I can't! BTW, when you highlight a quote, please address the quote. I post to learn or to resolve. Not just to argue. That's important. However, in another post with a customer from Canada, I believe that Emo confirmed my position. If I'm wrong, I apologize to you and Emo. I have very little ego. When I mentioned.... ' this issue'..... I was talking about tuner operability outside the USA. However, I take it that you have no qualms with the poster accusing Emo of ripping off international customers with regards to the tuner matter. You also apparently have nothing to say about buyers taking responsibility to do dilligence with purchases outside their own country. But, it's all good. to each his own ;D jamrock
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Oct 17, 2010 16:37:12 GMT -5
OK folks, this thread needs to get back on topic. If you feel you wish to discuss the operation of the FM tuner or Emotiva policy or disclosure/documentation, open another thread.
Thank you for your understanding.
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Post by autocrat on Oct 17, 2010 17:01:22 GMT -5
OK folks, this thread needs to get back on topic. If you feel you wish to discuss the operation of the FM tuner or Emotiva policy or disclosure/documentation, open another thread. Thank you for your understanding. Not wishing to push this any further, but I think questions about whether the AM tuner will work outside of Nth America are relevant. I admit I could have worded the question better, since some people here always assume the worst possible interpretation, so here goes: Question: will the XMC-1 have an AM tuner that operates outside of North America? Thanks.
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Post by visiter555 on Oct 17, 2010 17:09:05 GMT -5
Are you for real . You post that Emotiva refunds shipping to international customers which you are dead wrong about and you are taking about due diligence. Have you not read the many posts from members outside of the US that have commented about the shipping charges and fees associated with buying Emotiva products? Instead of saying "oh my bad I was wrong" you post some nonsense about how there are 166 countries in the world . In other words you are implying that if someone outside of the US buys an Emotiva product and there is an issue its their fault. Address what issue? What is there to address? How would a buyer of any product know if there will be issues with functionality if the product is not fully tested or if all the functions are not known to be working as intended? Once again you throw it on the buyer where the responsibility should be on the company selling a specific product. That is that the product will function properly for international customers who are buying it before shipping said product. Bill Bill, Don't waste your time, it is not worth it. He knows that the internationals get not only the shipping paid, but get three free UPA-1s with every order. By the way, does ANYONE have any hard evidence on anything to do with the XMC-1? By hard evidence anything written with Dan or Lonnie's signature on it or is this thread just blowing smoke? I am patiently waiting to see real hard information so that I can see if it is something that would be of interest. Emo has did say they would post some specs after Emofest, but nada so far on the home planet. Vis
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Post by billmac on Oct 17, 2010 18:21:09 GMT -5
I have no problem with that post as it addresses both sides and not from a pro company perspective . Please don't tell what is important as if you wanted to learn you would already be well aware the Emotiva does not refund shipping or fees to international customers when products are returned. This is common knowledge that has been discussed quite a bit here. What position is that? What did Emotiva confirm? If Emotiva is going to sell a product to someone outside of the US then they should let that customer know if it is fully functional (such as the tuner functionality) in their region. Wouldn't you agree? Why should it be totally on the customer? If the poster feels he would be ripped off by receiving a product that is not fully functional in his region it is his right to say that IMO. It is apparent that you are extremely pro Emotiva which is fine but I think it clouds your thoughts on discussions like this . Bottom line is if a company like Emotiva wants to sell products worldwide then I feel they should make the effort to have the product fully functional in the regions they ship products to. If a product such as the XMC-1 and its tuner is not functional in say Australia then Emotiva should make that customer aware of that. With your mindset the customer is supposed ask questions about a product he has no experience with on whether its functions will work properly in his region. If people feel it is a risk to buy Emotiva's products with possible functionality issues then people will just not buy Emotiva's products. I guess you do not understand that some people that bought the UMC-1 outside of the US paid almost half of the cost of the UMC-1 in shipping and customs fees. Bill
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2010 19:03:28 GMT -5
Emo is pretty tight lipped about the release time frame of the XMC. I do understand it though, how they would not want to start the clock ticking if they release any sort of time detail. HOWEVER, for those who tried and have foregone the UMC, this wait could be brutal..
Just sayin..
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Post by wfdtamar on Oct 18, 2010 2:57:14 GMT -5
The fact that they have not done this (below) when first notified of the issue tells a lot about what Emotiva thinks of its international customers. To not do something like this is misleading. Since shipping one way from a far away country can be in the region of US$150 (which may be a lot more than that in a 'poorer' country) it's a bit much to expect people to return it at their expense for an Emotiva omission.
Emotiva well and truly know of this issue and are failing to disclose it to international purchasers. Simple - easy to remedy and a bit deceptive not to.
(I'm not that fussed about it - except that I did buy what is supposedly 'Digital Nirvana' didn't I?) It does make resale a bit difficult if I ever want to so some form of recompense would be nice. Frankly the FM tuner ain't that crash hot either.
From the UMC-1 page: The fully featured UMC-1 is an audiophile grade preamplifier and multi-channel digital audio processor with an integral high quality AM/FM tuner*.
(then further down at the bottom of the specs) *We're sorry - the AM tuner does not function in countries outside the USA due to differences in frequencies.
On another note - what happened to the Component inputs on the XMC-1!? Last I heard they were asking us if we wanted THX (that kind of detail) now all of a sudden they've dropped Component without asking if anyone still uses it! Grrr
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Post by ÈlTwo on Oct 18, 2010 7:17:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry that so many people feel so strongly about an AM tuner in audiophile equipment.
The fact of the matter is that in the USA an AM tuner is really a throw away for audiophile gear; if it's a digital tuner (HD Radio), then maybe it's useful to listen to the radio announcers for sports broadcasts, but other than that, meh.
To those of you for whom the AM tuner doesn't work: what do you listen to on AM radio?
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Post by billmac on Oct 18, 2010 8:50:00 GMT -5
Why do you feel sorry? No AM use is certainly not an audiophile quality medium but many find it a useful feature. Maybe to many the AM tuner is a throw away but many also use it for news and sports broadcasts. I would say they do not listen to anything as the AM tuner does not work for them (sorry I couldn't resist) . The bottom line is if you buy a product you would expect all the functions to work properly when you use it. Looking at the UMC-1's product page and the manual it does not indicate that the AM tuner is not functional in all regions. Maybe Emotiva might want to update both to show that fact. Bill
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Post by ÈlTwo on Oct 18, 2010 9:31:08 GMT -5
I would say they do not listen to anything as the AM tuner does not work for them (sorry I couldn't resist) . The bottom line is if you buy a product you would expect all the functions to work properly when you use it. I asked what they listened to on AM radio, not on the AM radio on the UMC-1, an honest question which is still not answered. You say maybe many listen to sports and news broadcasts, but I was asking for people to state what they actually listen to; may I assume you listen to news and sports broadcasts in you home on AM radio? ;D
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