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Post by corbaatje on Aug 27, 2012 1:58:05 GMT -5
I think FROUT is german for front...maybe its the European model FROUT is not German or any European language I know(French, German, Dutch). Maybe be just a typo and the U needs to be a N . Sure hope the European modell is first and we get the XMC-1 first. No worries, we will tell you about how good it is .
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Post by wizardofoz on Aug 27, 2012 2:58:36 GMT -5
A typo... REALLY?!?!?
You think we are being serious?
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,262
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 27, 2012 3:47:05 GMT -5
A typo... REALLY?!?!? You think we are being serious? His name on other fora is Cobraatje so maybe Corbaatje suffers from typophobia
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Post by audiophill on Aug 27, 2012 7:45:33 GMT -5
Only other thing i would really like to see on the rear panel of the XMC-1 is two hdmi outs like the oppo bdp 93 has and most other high end processors. Other than that all looks great!
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Post by corbaatje on Aug 27, 2012 10:50:24 GMT -5
A typo... REALLY?!?!? You think we are being serious? Yes of course, Americans with a sence of humor don't exist or do they ;D . Maybe it's Russian. Sure would be nice if the first shipment off XMC-1's was to Rotterdam... I'm in need for a nice pre with tact.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 27, 2012 11:51:06 GMT -5
Yes, I'm thinking those on the pre-order list might want to drop off and let others make sure the XMC-1 is ready for prime time, what's a few more months to know you're getting a clean machine ;~)
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Aug 27, 2012 12:36:55 GMT -5
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 27, 2012 14:05:53 GMT -5
Sure would be nice if the first shipment off XMC-1's was to Rotterdam... Keep dreaming ;D
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Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 14:33:43 GMT -5
Why? Do you plan on buying Emotiva equipment to use in your workplace? No, and it is true that an NRTL certification isn't REQUIRED for sale (in most jurisdictions I can think of) though it is required in some for retail display and that is not applicable here. Simply looking to see if the unit was put through the tests by an outside body. CE is NOT the same as UL, etc., inthat the standards are designed for ~230VAC operation and are self-certifying. The two are NOT interchangeable and the process is different. For CE you self-certify, although most companies will user an outside lab to test. For NRTL you not only have to apply for testing and submit the documents to the lab, there are also on-site inspections throughout the life of the product to make certain that what is being made is, in fact, manufactured in accordance with what was submitted when the product was "listed". Nothing like having the "UL Inspector" showup in a factory and ask fro random compliance certs on the materials used in a particular part and find that something has changed and is out of whack. They can pull your listing for that sort of thing. CE has nothing like that in their scheme. For a company that does the vast majority of their sales in North America (one presumes, of course, not knowing the the details of a private company), that an NRTL listing would be worthwhile. FCC is mandatory and can't be messed with, but that theyhave. I presume the FCC info will be on the bottom with a sticker since it is not on the rear panel. PHOTOS! DETAILS!
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Post by G-Man on Aug 27, 2012 14:42:05 GMT -5
I think the big picture implications of the 'certified or not certified' discussion is that the XMC-1 in the photos is not a production-ready unit. Also, the lack of a serial number is another indicator.
The hopes for buying an XMC-1 at Emofest now seem dim.
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Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 14:47:25 GMT -5
I'm afraidI have to agree with you, but guess we'll all know in a few days. I stand by the guess that we will see a UMC 200 shipping before an XMC-1. In fact, I think we'll all be enjoying iPhone 5, the "iPad Air" (I can't bring myself to call it the "Mini Pad") and possibly a 4K TV before the XMC However, the good news is that we'll likely see the XMC before the "AppleTV" (actual TV set, not the small OTT adaptor).
Time and EmoFest will tell.
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Post by Entity on Aug 27, 2012 14:53:22 GMT -5
Worthwhile for whom? It's an added cost that applies no benefits since it's not required for home use (the intended target of the device) and is something that 99% of their customer base probably has no interest in.
I keep seeing this question brought up on Audioholics and other forums. Don't fret, Emotiva is doing what is required in accordance with the law.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Aug 27, 2012 15:03:35 GMT -5
Loving the white OLED, I hope that's a keeper for production.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2012 15:17:00 GMT -5
Why? Do you plan on buying Emotiva equipment to use in your workplace? No, and it is true that an NRTL certification isn't REQUIRED for sale (in most jurisdictions I can think of) though it is required in some for retail display and that is not applicable here. Simply looking to see if the unit was put through the tests by an outside body. CE is NOT the same as UL, etc., inthat the standards are designed for ~230VAC operation and are self-certifying. The two are NOT interchangeable and the process is different. For CE you self-certify, although most companies will user an outside lab to test. For NRTL you not only have to apply for testing and submit the documents to the lab, there are also on-site inspections throughout the life of the product to make certain that what is being made is, in fact, manufactured in accordance with what was submitted when the product was "listed". Nothing like having the "UL Inspector" showup in a factory and ask fro random compliance certs on the materials used in a particular part and find that something has changed and is out of whack. They can pull your listing for that sort of thing. CE has nothing like that in their scheme. For a company that does the vast majority of their sales in North America (one presumes, of course, not knowing the the details of a private company), that an NRTL listing would be worthwhile. FCC is mandatory and can't be messed with, but that theyhave. I presume the FCC info will be on the bottom with a sticker since it is not on the rear panel. PHOTOS! DETAILS! 2muchht, the certifications have been discussed quite a bit in the past and explained by emotiva. I'm not attempting to be cocky but it's pretty much a non-issue for most people at this point at least on this forum. Long story short, emotiva is certified and most people like me are simply not concerned. It doesn't make it any better of a value for me to get the additional certification. I have 5 years warranty and I notice that there is a very low report of electrical failures on this forum and a general positive reaction to customer support. Most of the failures themselves tend to be minor and easily fixable like a fuse. It's not a perfect record, but I've had equipment that is well ceritified by other companies that have plain failed, caught on fire, companies hedging on warranties, and just shoddy overall. If you go to their websites and you will see a large amount of complaints, short warranties, poor cs etc. This simply isn't the case with emotiva. So I can't get behind additional certification if it doesn't make much difference to me and costs the manufacturer more. I think a separate thread would be best if you want to explore the topic more as this is focusing on the xmc-1 teaser not general certifications of all emotiva units. This is most likely a prototype board and not the actual mass production unit.
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Post by Topend on Aug 27, 2012 15:51:30 GMT -5
Why? Do you plan on buying Emotiva equipment to use in your workplace? The two are NOT interchangeable and the process is different. For CE you self-certify, although most companies will user an outside lab to test. For NRTL you not only have to apply for testing and submit the documents to the lab, there are also on-site inspections throughout the life of the product to make certain that what is being made is, in fact, manufactured in accordance with what was submitted when the product was "listed". Nothing like having the "UL Inspector" showup in a factory and ask fro random compliance certs on the materials used in a particular part and find that something has changed and is out of whack. They can pull your listing for that sort of thing. CE has nothing like that in their scheme. PHOTOS! DETAILS! Will they visit a factory in China? I agree with others, it's unnecessary. Dave.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2012 16:02:20 GMT -5
Why? Do you plan on buying Emotiva equipment to use in your workplace? No, and it is true that an NRTL certification isn't REQUIRED for sale (in most jurisdictions I can think of) though it is required in some for retail display and that is not applicable here. Simply looking to see if the unit was put through the tests by an outside body. CE is NOT the same as UL, etc., inthat the standards are designed for ~230VAC operation and are self-certifying. The two are NOT interchangeable and the process is different. For CE you self-certify, although most companies will user an outside lab to test. For NRTL you not only have to apply for testing and submit the documents to the lab, there are also on-site inspections throughout the life of the product to make certain that what is being made is, in fact, manufactured in accordance with what was submitted when the product was "listed". Nothing like having the "UL Inspector" showup in a factory and ask fro random compliance certs on the materials used in a particular part and find that something has changed and is out of whack. They can pull your listing for that sort of thing. CE has nothing like that in their scheme. For a company that does the vast majority of their sales in North America (one presumes, of course, not knowing the the details of a private company), that an NRTL listing would be worthwhile. FCC is mandatory and can't be messed with, but that theyhave. I presume the FCC info will be on the bottom with a sticker since it is not on the rear panel. PHOTOS! DETAILS! To answer your first question, no. I personally don't see the need to have another house run the same test a second time just to get another logo printed on the unit. Now I would like to clarify a few things. There are certain devices that can be self certified to meet CE standards. However, products such as ours cannot and all of our products are sent to an outside house for certification and that testing facility makes random inspections and audits of all the gear annually. Every piece of gear is fully documented and photographed and all changes have to be reported and in many cases re-tested. A basic CE test takes roughly 10 weeks from start to finish and covers everything from basic mechanical construction to full distractive test. Every part in the unit is documented and must meet standards for safety and electrical isolation. The test reports are usually 100 pages long and are very stringent. One of the companies I worked for many years ago did UL testing and I can honestly say that it wasn't as tough as the CE test requirements. Things have probably changed, but I doubt that it would make the units any safer. Hope this helps. Lonnie
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Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 16:05:51 GMT -5
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If an NRTL listing is "costly" and "doesn't make a difference", why does virtually every other consumer electronics product, let alone virtually ANYTHING you plug into an AC outlet have a listing? If this was a cost manufacturers could elininate, wouldn't you thik that the cost-sensitive product categories such as home video, etc. would drop it? THe margin pressures for the conventional brands such as Denon, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz, Onkyo, etc. can be no less than those for Emotiva, indeed given the B&M based distribution model they are probably stronger. Yet, in spite of that, why do they continue to get the listings if it is something not required for home use (which is true though I seem to recall things were somewhat different in Canada, but our Northern friends can check me on this for the likes of Ontario Hydro, etc.)? Remember, an NRTL listing does NOT have anything to do with reliability. Rather, it has to do with safety for things such as shock hazard, heat, fire worthyness (e.g., if the caps explode the thing won't self-immolate, or if a rare accident occurs and something does start flaming (not here < ) the components won't add to the situation. (by using 94V0 materials where applicable). It's not a deal breaker, but not having it is something I'd like to avoid. Let's see what the real deal is ths weekend, as the reality, again, is that this is still prtobably somewhat off in the distance given the photos. There will be a working unit at EmoFest. When will there be working units in out systems? Only time will tell.
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Post by Entity on Aug 27, 2012 16:18:03 GMT -5
There you have it, from the horses mouth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 16:20:02 GMT -5
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If an NRTL listing is "costly" and "doesn't make a difference", why does virtually every other consumer electronics product, let alone virtually ANYTHING you plug into an AC outlet have a listing? If this was a cost manufacturers could elininate, wouldn't you thik that the cost-sensitive product categories such as home video, etc. would drop it? THe margin pressures for the conventional brands such as Denon, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz, Onkyo, etc. can be no less than those for Emotiva, indeed given the B&M based distribution model they are probably stronger. Yet, in spite of that, why do they continue to get the listings if it is something not required for home use (which is true though I seem to recall things were somewhat different in Canada, but our Northern friends can check me on this for the likes of Ontario Hydro, etc.)? Remember, an NRTL listing does NOT have anything to do with reliability. Rather, it has to do with safety for things such as shock hazard, heat, fire worthyness (e.g., if the caps explode the thing won't self-immolate, or if a rare accident occurs and something does start flaming (not here < ) the components won't add to the situation. (by using 94V0 materials where applicable). It's not a deal breaker, but not having it is something I'd like to avoid. Let's see what the real deal is ths weekend, as the reality, again, is that this is still prtobably somewhat off in the distance given the photos. There will be a working unit at EmoFest. When will there be working units in out systems? Only time will tell. Easy solution. Don't buy one
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Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2012 16:34:51 GMT -5
2muchhtt: Lonnie, the head designer, just addressed your main concerns: which was that there is continous auditing of the equipment, there is outside testing, and that CE testing is actually rigorous. I don't really see much other actual issues in your post. I feel like you're debating on very minor (if at all) details at this point. Even if you may have some understanding of the certification you prefer, I wonder if you do have a good understanding of the comparisions between certifications or implications you appear to be making.
You may not be, but it seems that me that you are implying that emotiva's designs and quality control are so bad that they are purposefully not pursuing a certification that would expose their products as hazards AND that emotiva would lie to the certification people about their designs under the cover of self-reporting. Both of which seems obvious to me is not happening. They are following strict rigorous standards. I'd hate to see customers scared away but what is really a non-issue here in my opinion.
Do you have any practical circumstances where this has actually caused a problem for you or others with emotiva products?
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