|
Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 16:59:19 GMT -5
Thanks, Lonnie.
Can't disagree, and clearly what you say is correct. It just seems odd to me that since UL/CSA/ETL-Intertec, etc., are the common standard for North America it would make sense to offer them particularly, as you say, it is easier to do testing and certification to a UL standard why you don't take that route, particularly in a unit with a 115/120VAC supply?
Regardless, one can't doubt that much thought has gone into this. Your response answers the question about an NRTL. It's no and I'll deal with that as my own requirements dictate as will the others here. That's what makes it a ball game.
Thank for taking the time from what one presumes are hectic preparations for this weekend's festivities to step in and reply.
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Aug 27, 2012 17:02:39 GMT -5
Before we go further in this conversation, the point of this thread was to remind people that the xmc is not a figment of their imagination. And to show off the laboring work that has been put into this product. The tone in this thread is progressively getting worse and is only proving why most companies keep their new products hidden from the public view until completion. I am not asking that concerns not be posted. But we are talking about a product that we cant even purchase and discussions becoming this negative takes away from any real constructive criticism that may be had.
|
|
|
Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 17:10:34 GMT -5
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never implied that they made or make poor quality products and everything I have said is factual, as I believe is everything Lonnie has said. The question was if they would obtain certification to listing via an NRTL. Lonnie provided their viewpoint and that's that.
I also never said that CE is bad or worse. It is neither, but it is different as it is designed to be applied to gear destined for markets other than ours. The basics are the same: assure that the product, when used according to the intended use, does not cause harm, a shock hazard, overheat to the point where touching it will result in burns, and so forth. This has NOTHING to do with quality control, per se, and I never said that it did because that WOULD be wrong.
Yes, I DO have a fairly good understanding of all of this, as clearly does Lonnie.
The reason for asking about this is not because Emo products have had problems, as it seems reasonable to assume that they have not. The reason for asking IS that having a safety listing is one way to assure that there will not be problems. It's a matter of goign the extra mile. Emo can reasonably choose CE over testing to a US or Canadian standard, and that's fine. Where do you see in that what you are complaining about?
Relax. I've gotten the answer ot the reasonable question asked and that is the end of queries on this unless you feel the need to look for things I never asked about. Whatever pleases you, but that's it from me on this. The rest will come with the XMC-1 and UMC-200 news this weekend.
No need for further comment.
|
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Aug 27, 2012 17:48:48 GMT -5
Somebody screwed up my wet dream ;D
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2012 19:32:51 GMT -5
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never implied that they made or make poor quality products and everything I have said is factual, as I believe is everything Lonnie has said. The question was if they would obtain certification to listing via an NRTL. Lonnie provided their viewpoint and that's that. I also never said that CE is bad or worse. It is neither, but it is different as it is designed to be applied to gear destined for markets other than ours. The basics are the same: assure that the product, when used according to the intended use, does not cause harm, a shock hazard, overheat to the point where touching it will result in burns, and so forth. This has NOTHING to do with quality control, per se, and I never said that it did because that WOULD be wrong. Yes, I DO have a fairly good understanding of all of this, as clearly does Lonnie. The reason for asking about this is not because Emo products have had problems, as it seems reasonable to assume that they have not. The reason for asking IS that having a safety listing is one way to assure that there will not be problems. It's a matter of goign the extra mile. Emo can reasonably choose CE over testing to a US or Canadian standard, and that's fine. Where do you see in that what you are complaining about? Relax. I've gotten the answer ot the reasonable question asked and that is the end of queries on this unless you feel the need to look for things I never asked about. Whatever pleases you, but that's it from me on this. The rest will come with the XMC-1 and UMC-200 news this weekend. No need for further comment. I apologize for putting words in your mouth. That's simply how it comes across to me.
|
|
|
Post by 2muchht on Aug 27, 2012 19:40:33 GMT -5
Noted and appreciated. We're all getting a bit hot about this, so things sometimes get out of context on all sides.
Nice you you to come back with that.
|
|
|
Post by SticknStones on Aug 27, 2012 19:47:50 GMT -5
Oh my.... I am so glad I am on the preorder list! I just hope we do not have much longer of a wait. Yeah me too! I am also looking forward to our members scouting reports on the features sets that are too many to mention.
|
|
|
Post by plm on Aug 27, 2012 19:49:41 GMT -5
One of the key differences is that UL certification is not mandatory to sell into the United States but CE certification is a legal requirement to be able to even import product into Europe, let alone sell it. So if you have one test regime mandated by your target marketplace and it happens to be perfectly acceptable in the United States as it's equally as encompassing as UL then it makes good business (and practical) sense sense to choose CE.
|
|
|
Post by tmassey on Aug 28, 2012 7:55:01 GMT -5
And gets us a cheaper product! Same reason I am happy they didn't go for THX certification. I end up paying more for the exact same product. I love the "nothing to prove" attitude and letting the product speak for itself.
|
|
|
Post by amt on Aug 28, 2012 8:34:59 GMT -5
Here's hoping we see a teaser of the TacT-EMO software in action
|
|
|
Post by calvinhobbe on Aug 28, 2012 10:35:29 GMT -5
Looks like a long ways from full production run...which worries me.
|
|
|
Post by chaosrv on Aug 28, 2012 10:48:07 GMT -5
Why do internal shots automatically mean far away from a production run? If the unit already has CE certification it means the hardware and almost certainly a significant portion, if not all, of the software must be complete. The lack of a serial number does indicate, to me, it is not a production model but that doesn't mean much beyond that it isn't a production-run unit. For all we know, the sign-off is already done and production is already underway. Just because the top of the case was removed for pictures doesn't mean it isn't a final (albeit non-production run) unit.
I think, at this point, we need to shelve any assumptions until after this coming weekend. I have a feeling we will be learning quite a bit more about this miracle machine from EmoFest.
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Aug 28, 2012 11:00:16 GMT -5
Why do internal shots automatically mean far away from a production run? If the unit already has CE certification it means the hardware and almost certainly a significant portion, if not all, of the software must be complete. The lack of a serial number does indicate, to me, it is not a production model but that doesn't mean much beyond that it isn't a production-run unit. For all we know, the sign-off is already done and production is already underway. Just because the top of the case was removed for pictures doesn't mean it isn't a final (albeit non-production run) unit. I think, at this point, we need to shelve any assumptions until after this coming weekend. I have a feeling we will be learning quite a bit more about this miracle machine from EmoFest. I would have to agree with above. I dont think that this is any indication of anything other then emotiva believes they have something that they want to show off. There is one thing that we do know for sure. When it comes to new product,s emotiva stands on the sadistic side. They like to tease and surprise.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Aug 28, 2012 12:55:18 GMT -5
Looks like a long ways from full production run...which worries me. Are you on the preorder list?
|
|
stiehl11
Emo VIPs
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,261
|
Post by stiehl11 on Aug 28, 2012 12:57:07 GMT -5
Looks like a long ways from full production run...which worries me. Of all the things to worry about in this wide, wide, world the XMC-1 isn't one of them.
|
|
|
Post by Entity on Aug 28, 2012 13:26:33 GMT -5
If I take the cover off of my XPA-2, does that make it "far from production" ?
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 28, 2012 13:28:17 GMT -5
Looks like a long ways from full production run...which worries me. Of all the things to worry about in this wide, wide, world the XMC-1 isn't one of them. While I fully agree with your sentiment, this is the place to worry about the XMC-1, but I'll reserve my worries until after EmoFest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 13:28:19 GMT -5
Looks like a long ways from full production run...which worries me. Worries you. I hope you can sleep at night
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Aug 28, 2012 14:05:59 GMT -5
One of the key differences is that UL certification is not mandatory to sell into the United States but CE certification is a legal requirement to be able to even import product into Europe, let alone sell it. So if you have one test regime mandated by your target marketplace and it happens to be perfectly acceptable in the United States as it's equally as encompassing as UL then it makes good business (and practical) sense sense to choose CE. Quite strict down here as well plm. Had a look at the back of my equipment ; its a powder keg ;D; the oppo95 is ul listed; no ce ;the power pack of my dvdo duo has both a ce and ul logo; my cary11a is ce and my cary 5 power amp has no logo.. my rotel class d has a ce ; Oh my korean topfield and beyonwiz hd pvrs are ce tick approved or they wouldnt pass customs ;ide check my velodyne but its too heavy and might throw something out bending ; not in the spirit of safety at all lol
|
|
Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,262
|
Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 28, 2012 15:07:37 GMT -5
Remember, an NRTL listing does NOT have anything to do with reliability. Rather, it has to do with safety for things such as shock hazard, heat, fire worthyness (e.g., if the caps explode the thing won't self-immolate, or if a rare accident occurs and something does start flaming (not here < ) the components won't add to the situation. (by using 94V0 materials where applicable). It's not a deal breaker, but not having it is something I'd like to avoid. I won't convince you (cause you're an apparent chauvinist) but rest assured Europe is different from Afghanistan and the likes... We want safe stuff. We actually want control over our economy and the things they produce. And BTW, German standards (TUV) play an important part in the whole CE system. Germany, where Americans who can afford it turn to in order to drive a decent car for a change. And we don't allow cattle to be poisoned with hormones unlike USA. And, and and! We are way to burocratic and an overpriced and overtaxed community, but please don't accuse us to allow unsafe products have a CE stamp!
|
|