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Post by awalters on May 25, 2013 17:59:18 GMT -5
Not sure if this helps, but I popped in my Austin Powers Goldmember DVD which has a Dolby Digital EX 5.1 track. The '200 recognizes it only as a regular Dolby Digital stream (per the front panel and OSD). So this allows me to select the PLII mode. I never played the disc on my previous Pioneer Elite receiver, so I don't have any reference to compare if the '200 is decoding it properly. Also, I don't have any back surround speakers. This disc also has a DTS ES Discrete 6.1 track which is shown as "DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete 48KHz L C R Ls Rs Cs+LFE" on the front panel and "DTS-ES 6.1Discre" on the OSD. Strangely, when I skip chapters it changes to only "DTS 48KHzL C R Ls Rs Cs+LFE". Again, I don't have back surround speakers to confirm sound coming out of those channels. It more than likely doesn't have the ex flag set awalters so it's downmixed to ordinary 5.1 as it would be even if you had rear surrounds so it's ok . Our pal dvds down here copped the same treatment as ntsc ones ; pearl harbour [and a later harry potter] had to be manually switched to ddex even though it was listed at dolby.com at the time Would be nice to apply pl2x to the downmixed mono analog ex back surround signal but cant see it being a high priority for emo considering most bd's are 5.1 or 7.1 discrete unfortunately and dvd playback wouldn't be high on the list . The dts 6.1 osd reversal should read dts 48khz LCR Ls Rs +lfe as you haven't got back surrounds hooked up ; curious if cs is also added as 6.1 discrete is backwards compatible with dts 5.1 so should leave the cs part off the description .. I found a DD-EX track... "The Science of Sensation" THX trailer on the Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith DVD. Cannot select PLII. Oddly enough, the movie itself is not flagged as DD-EX even though the case/menu says it is.
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Post by doc1963 on May 25, 2013 18:22:32 GMT -5
I wonder out of all the units sold and updated how many had problems. Or are we just seeing the people who had problems complain. For me I followed the directions and in 25 minutes was done with no problems. I did however completely remove my UMC-200 from my system before updating. I think the bigger question would be how many users (out of all the units sold) are even aware of, or better yet... attempt, the update. Let me just say, to be absolutely clear, I am not a "novice" user and am well versed in this type of updating procedure. I, as did you, totally removed my device(s) from their setup and updated it on a reputable PC with a brand new, freshly installed, copy of Windows 7 (64 bit) and not another program (other than the loader and drivers) installed using brand new, well built, USB cables. How much closer to the "magic box" do I need to be (or can I get). Furthermore, to rule out my desktop PC, the final "successful" load on my own UMC-200 was performed using a brand new HP laptop running Windows 8 (64 bit). The second UMC-200 (my son's) was performed right back on my desktop PC. The experiences, failures and methods of recovery (and successful loads) were IDENTICAL. Honestly, you were either lucky or do have "the magic box" required to get it to work using Emotiva's instructions. To me, there are enough "trustworthy" members here to float advanced copies of the firmware updates (along with the associated loader application) out to know, in advance, if there are going to be issues. I'm quite sure that it's one hell of a lot easier to troubleshoot issues for a dozen end users than hundreds. We all DON'T have the same equipment as Emotiva uses to perform the update, so how can they be so certain that the procedure is without flaw? Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to pre-judge the "complainers".....
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Post by awalters on May 25, 2013 18:28:14 GMT -5
Hey guys can everyone that has done the update using the emo PDF tell us what happens when it writes the first file Where I think the issue is and why we r getting the loading loop. When I do the first file it does the CPU update thing instead if when u do the last file as per PDF it say when u do the fourth file it is suppposed to do the CPU update then the file Where on mine it does the CPU update first the. Writes the first file then on the from panel it says loading and it does this for all 3 files but saying it has written successfully but on the fourth file it does not write the CPU code but tries to update the file then it fails This is why I think the units are failing the update where the program is writing the CPU code to early and why the fourth file is failing Can anyone confirm on their units that it is doing the same Where as the ones that did the PDF update and it wrote all successfull I'm guessing that the CPU code was written before the 4th file and why they had no issues Denis Are you asking about what order the files load to the '200 if you leave them ALL checked? I believe Keith mentioned the sequence would be 4 (CPU), 1, 2, 3. I updated mine successfully using the PDF instructions loading each file one by one in the order 1, 2, 3, 4 (DSP2, DSP1, OSD, CPU) like it says. However, I did not close the updater program between each file. Also, did not power cycle after the 4th file since it automatically rebooted itself. I'm not going to mess with it now since it worked on the first try.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 25, 2013 18:49:57 GMT -5
It more than likely doesn't have the ex flag set awalters so it's downmixed to ordinary 5.1 as it would be even if you had rear surrounds so it's ok . Our pal dvds down here copped the same treatment as ntsc ones ; pearl harbour [and a later harry potter] had to be manually switched to ddex even though it was listed at dolby.com at the time Would be nice to apply pl2x to the downmixed mono analog ex back surround signal but cant see it being a high priority for emo considering most bd's are 5.1 or 7.1 discrete unfortunately and dvd playback wouldn't be high on the list . The dts 6.1 osd reversal should read dts 48khz LCR Ls Rs +lfe as you haven't got back surrounds hooked up ; curious if cs is also added as 6.1 discrete is backwards compatible with dts 5.1 so should leave the cs part off the description .. I found a DD-EX track... "The Science of Sensation" THX trailer on the Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith DVD. Cannot select PLII. Oddly enough, the movie itself is not flagged as DD-EX even though the case/menu says it is. I actually found a blu-ray, STARGATE, with DDEX and DTS-HD HR tracks. The DDEX when selected on my Oppo BDP-93, shows on the Oppo display as Dolby Digital 5.1 but when decoded by the UMC-200 as DDEX 5.1. In this case the UMC-200 is apparently passing along the the information to the back surrounds to the side surrounds as well. The DTS-HD HR shows up on the Oppo display as DTS-HD HR 6.1 and decodes on the UMC-200 display as F C R Ls Rs Cs 6.1, but just as the DDEX was outputting information to all speakers including the back and side surrounds, so is the DTS-HD HR 6.1 track. Neither the Dolby Digital EX or DTS-HD HR 6.1 tracks when decoded are allowed by the UMC-200 to use DPLIIx, though as I already have said, there is information in both the back and side surrounds, so I've concluded that the UMC-200 is already either doing the matrixing of the other surround channels or it's sending exactly the same information to both back and side surrounds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 19:32:50 GMT -5
The original umc-200 firmware was well written, and the update seems good also. I don't think the update was late because of the firmware. My guess is that EMO has spent the past three weeks desperately trying to get the loader to work... /b
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Post by 2muchht on May 25, 2013 20:31:45 GMT -5
Perhaps, but in line with the "We won't release it until it is right" mantra one has to wonder why they just didn't wait a bit longer and avoid this. Other brands have done updates for Cirrus-based products with loaders that are not only easier, but more or less fool-proof and for some even graphics driven. On the other hand, there have also been Cirrus-based products with "USB Direct" load-in for update.
Given that the UMC-200 seems to be a reasonably good product one has to wonder how they missed this. The sample of users here that have had to go to alternate methods has to indicate that this isn't an isolated thing and should have been caught during Emo's internal testing.
Saying "Follow the instructions and it will work" when that hasn't proven out for those posting here doesn't come off as the way to deal with this sort of problem. The screens posted by one user lead one to believe that this isn't a loader that Emo even wrote, but rather the "engineering loader" provided by ST. One only needs to look at what they have done with the product to know this is something Emo is fully capable of so this is all even more puzzling.
Hopefully a podcast soon where this will all be explained?
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Post by srrndhound on May 26, 2013 0:24:33 GMT -5
I actually found a blu-ray, STARGATE, with DDEX and DTS-HD HR tracks. The DDEX when selected on my Oppo BDP-93, shows on the Oppo display as Dolby Digital 5.1 but when decoded by the UMC-200 as DDEX 5.1. In this case the UMC-200 is apparently passing along the the information to the back surrounds to the side surrounds as well. DDEX tracks are structured exactly like any other DD 5.1 track. The only difference is the optional and elusive EX flag that is rarely used. Yes, in a Surround EX 6.1 mix, the back surround channel was created and matrix encoded into Ls/Rs, where it looks the same as a phantom center signal. The DTS 6.1 track has a discrete back surround channel. The 7.1 '200 has no choice but present it as a discrete signal to the rear surround speakers. The EX flag is activating the Surround EX decoder, which is normal enough. But once PLIIx came along, that was found to do a better job (stereo rears instead of mono), so it is supposed to be the end user's choice to select among the various options: EX, PLIIx, none. Like I say, very rarely an issue, and if one really wants to use PLIIx, just switch the player to output PCM.
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pips
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Post by pips on May 26, 2013 3:06:34 GMT -5
Hopefully a podcast soon where this will all be explained? They could just post in the thread. I'm pretty sure the entire company reads everything in these.
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Post by cwt on May 26, 2013 3:16:51 GMT -5
I found a DD-EX track... "The Science of Sensation" THX trailer on the Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith DVD. Cannot select PLII. Oddly enough, the movie itself is not flagged as DD-EX even though the case/menu says it is. Even if the umc200 allowed pl2x to be applied to a ddex track [it doesn't ] you haven't got your back surrounds on so it's downmixed to dd5.1 . All ok . Yes ; I have the dvd of SW attack of the clones- being a George Lucas title [ mr thx] it couldn't miss being ex surround like others in the series . Even this didn't have the flag ; seem to recall there was a problem with early ex decoding on some avr's so they left the flag off ; was disappointed as my onkyo tx ds989 had no problem with the flag at the time
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Post by meldhache on May 26, 2013 11:48:11 GMT -5
Well, only thing i know, since the update my UMC sounds a lot better especially after the emo Q which did pretty well a almost perfect job this time around. Funny thing since the upgrade had to lower my sound level to 35-40 instead of 50-55 to achieve the same decibel sound level in my room... This is the same before and after emoq was run.. Anybody noticed this... Mel
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on May 26, 2013 14:20:45 GMT -5
Well, only thing i know, since the update my UMC sounds a lot better especially after the emo Q which did pretty well a almost perfect job this time around. Funny thing since the upgrade had to lower my sound level to 35-40 instead of 50-55 to achieve the same decibel sound level in my room... This is the same before and after emoq was run.. Anybody noticed this... Mel Interesting. Mine is just the opposite. We have to watch movies around 50 to get all the sound. Before the upgrade it was around 30-35.
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Post by meldhache on May 26, 2013 14:24:51 GMT -5
Must be the type of sat receptors, mine is the Bell express vu disk about the equivalent to disk in the states . Mel
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Post by sleepjeep on May 27, 2013 22:31:05 GMT -5
I spent this memorial day upgrading my UMC-200. Didn't go well using the PDF instructions, followed them to a T. Used a Sony VAIO Windows 7 64 bit computer with a 3 foot long USB printer cable. I removed the UMC-200 from the system completely. (never been used before) Followed the directions and when it came time to restart the UMC-200 it got stuck in loading. Waited a hour. Very frustrating. I read through this thread many times and followed Denis' technique and it worked. I then loaded the default settings as the emotiva PDF says after a successful install. Then the trouble started. When I re-ran EMO-Q when I tried to watch a channel that had DOLBY DiGITAL the UMC-200 would not lock on to the audio signal and the video either. (apple TV worked as did the PS3 Blue Ray) The Direct TV was the one that didn't work. (when I hooked up directly to my tv it worked fine) I reloaded the defaults and re ran EMO-Q and it worked after the second time. I do still have a problem with it locking onto audio and sometimes still get the static sound that would happen before.
I think Emotiva could cost effectively create an upgrader would add very little to the cost of the product. They could contract this out to a reputable software firm and get a lot better result. I also agree with previous post that the hold up in the release of the update was because of the installer issues. Remember Dan himself posted about the eminent release of the upgrade and it didn't come to pass.
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on May 28, 2013 6:01:32 GMT -5
After running and saving EMO-Q, how do I make changes to the original speaker distances or levels-specifically the front L&R speakers? I see where I can makes changes to the band adjustments but not the original levels.
Somewhere I read where these can be adjusted and saved in the original EMO-Q settings.
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Post by doc1963 on May 28, 2013 6:43:51 GMT -5
After running and saving EMO-Q, how do I make changes to the original speaker distances or levels-specifically the front L&R speakers? I see where I can makes changes to the band adjustments but not the original levels. Somewhere I read where these can be adjusted and saved in the original EMO-Q settings. To make "permanent" adjustments to the levels, you must go into the "Speaker Level" menu. However, the internal tones WILL be active, so make sure your master volume is turned down a bit. Currently, there is NO way of using an external (disc based) source for your test tones while making permanent speaker level adjustments. What I have done is to make the adjustments in the "Trims" menu (which do NOT stay permanently), make note of them, then go back to the Speaker Level menu and trim those by the same amount. Not sure why they chose to offer no option of making level adjustments without internal tones, but that's where we're at.....
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on May 28, 2013 7:54:32 GMT -5
Perfect. Thought I had read that somewhere but couldn't find it!! Age................ ;D
Thanks.
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Post by bolle on May 28, 2013 14:57:07 GMT -5
Thanks a lot Denist!
I followed the Emotiva-PDF exactly as described -> Loading Loop infinite after the first part of the update. I tried again and also everything in the PDF if you have Problems to no avail.
Denists solution worked perfectly on the first try.
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Post by sacdukeman on May 31, 2013 21:15:38 GMT -5
My experience was similar to many - following the pdf worked fine until the 2d packet - which skipped to successful in about 3 secs and then put me in the "loading" loop. Tech support (Damon) and I worked through it and we finally got 'er done using the denist method.
Retyping all the manual PEQ settings was not fun but at least I knew it was coming.
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Post by darude on Jun 1, 2013 12:30:01 GMT -5
As I understand the update comes with positive improvements but also negative downfalls. Those of you who have upgraded, would you recomend to upgrade or would you stick to the old firmware?
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 1, 2013 12:50:12 GMT -5
As I understand the update comes with positive improvements but also negative downfalls. Those of you who have upgraded, would you recomend to upgrade or would you stick to the old firmware? I would absolutely recommend performing the update, but with the forewarning that you may likely encounter the same "issues" that many of us have encountered with the updating process. Just make sure that you have a full understanding of "what to do" (the "alternate method") if you encounter problems following the "preferred method" (which you should try first).
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