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Post by Bonzo on Feb 9, 2016 20:28:55 GMT -5
And by the way, watch that "HDCP 2.2" in your A/V chain if you want to make sure you can actually enjoy UHD........ This anti-piracy stuff is a boon for manufacturers. Forced replacement. Forced replacement means continued profit share. HDMI 2.0b will be around the corner, just watch. I posted this before. A little HDMI history lesson: HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002 HDMI 1.1 was released on May 20, 2004 HDMI 1.2 was released August 8, 2005 HDMI 1.2a was released on December 14, 2005 HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 HDMI 1.3a was released on November 10, 2006 HDMI 1.3b was released on March 26, 2007 HDMI 1.3b1 was released on November 9, 2007 HDMI 1.3c was released on August 25, 2008 HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009 HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011 HDMI 2.0 was released on September 4, 2013 HDMI 2.0a was released on April 8, 2015 So based on the average life span of the HDMI spec we should see another one announced by Q4 2016. 8K baby. +1. Yep. And what a waste that step will be to the vast majority. I'd also just like to say though that the HDMI time line thing is skewed a bit. It might have been released in in 2002, but it certainly was not used in large practice until version 1.3. There was still FireWire and DVI and HDMI didn't come out the total champ until later. I got my Denon receiver in 2005 and there isn't one single HDMI connection. So you can basically dismiss 4 or 5 years off that timeline in realistic terms. Doesn't change your point though. HDMI is the best worst connection of all time and it will never be truly stable. Note: Even the physical connector itself was poorly designed. It's the worst physical plug connection I've ever seen.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 24, 2016 19:59:35 GMT -5
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Feb 24, 2016 20:23:12 GMT -5
Its now time for the Emotiva XMC-1 2.2 HDMI Upgrade!!! Please like if you agree!!
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Post by Axis on Feb 24, 2016 20:26:51 GMT -5
Its now time for the Emotiva XMC-1 2.2 HDMI Upgrade!!! Please like if you agree!! View AttachmentNick you are going to wake up the Trolls !
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 24, 2016 22:25:18 GMT -5
They will say that the Denon AVRs had nothing to do with the handshake issues but an Emotiva board most certainly will in that exact same setup.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 25, 2016 10:31:07 GMT -5
I'm afraid the dust NEVER settles, and the endless stream of possible upgrades (aka "progress") never ends.
This year's new buzz is HDR... and here's the short version of where that sits at the moment...
An HDR picture can deliver more dynamic range - which means even brighter brights, and even brighter saturated colors. (Remember; 4k TVs are a little better in this regard than HD; but HDR is supposed to be a lot better...) Unless your TV SAYS it's HDR, then it isn't; and many that said that they were "HDR" up until now were pre-standard (remember stuff that was "HDMI 2.0 ready"). A TV that's HDMI 2.0 may or may not be HDR. A TV that's HDMI 2.0a should support the "baseline HDR format" - otherwise called "HDMI 10" (it's part of the standard). There is also another HDR standard called "Dolby Vision"; Dolby Vision does more than HDR 10; things that can play Dolby Vision are backwards compatible with HDR 10. (Usually; sort of; the backwards compatibility thing only works if the disc or source has dual data streams; so streaming stuff probably won't be.) And Phillips has a third competing system - which requires a hardware decoder chip - and isn't specifically compatible with either of the other two. Of the 4k content that's already out there, some of it claims to be HDR (but I've never seen anyone say which version).
So, won't it be interesting to see if the new 4k disc you already pre-ordered is 4k, or 4k HDR 10, or 4k Dolby Vision HDR, or, errr, who knows?
Personally, I'm figuring that, if past performance is any indication, when Oppo comes out with their new player, it will be able to play all the discs, and make them work on your TV.
And good luck trying to figure out all the streaming stuff; like NetFLix 4k - which doesn't have much programming - which may or may not be HDR - and has pretty limited bandwidth... and OTHER download and streaming options, like Vidity - which sounds really cool, but seems to only be supported by Samsung and WD so far ..... As far as all that goes, I figure there's no chance whatsoever that the dust will settle until the wheels stop spinning, right?
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 25, 2016 10:37:33 GMT -5
I'm afraid the dust NEVER settles, and the endless stream of possible upgrades (aka "progress") never ends. This year's new buzz is HDR... and here's the short version of where that sits at the moment... An HDR picture can deliver more dynamic range - which means even brighter brights, and even brighter saturated colors. (Remember; 4k TVs are a little better in this regard than HD; but HDR is supposed to be a lot better...) Unless your TV SAYS it's HDR, then it isn't; and many that said that they were "HDR" up until now were pre-standard (remember stuff that was "HDMI 2.0 ready"). A TV that's HDMI 2.0 may or may not be HDR. A TV that's HDMI 2.0a should support the "baseline HDR format" - otherwise called "HDMI 10" (it's part of the standard). There is also another HDR standard called "Dolby Vision"; Dolby Vision does more than HDR 10; things that can play Dolby Vision are backwards compatible with HDR 10. (Usually; sort of; the backwards compatibility thing only works if the disc or source has dual data streams; so streaming stuff probably won't be.) And Phillips has a third competing system - which requires a hardware decoder chip - and isn't specifically compatible with either of the other two. Of the 4k content that's already out there, some of it claims to be HDR (but I've never seen anyone say which version). So, won't it be interesting to see if the new 4k disc you already pre-ordered is 4k, or 4k HDR 10, or 4k Dolby Vision HDR, or, errr, who knows? Personally, I'm figuring that, if past performance is any indication, when Oppo comes out with their new player, it will be able to play all the discs, and make them work on your TV. And good luck trying to figure out all the streaming stuff; like NetFLix 4k - which doesn't have much programming - which may or may not be HDR - and has pretty limited bandwidth... and OTHER download and streaming options, like Vidity - which sounds really cool, but seems to only be supported by Samsung and WD so far ..... As far as all that goes, I figure there's no chance whatsoever that the dust will settle until the wheels stop spinning, right? so, out of curiosity, which formats are Emotivas multi port hdmi board upgrades going to support?
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Post by jmilton on Feb 25, 2016 11:04:00 GMT -5
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 25, 2016 11:45:14 GMT -5
In all fairness, I think everyone is making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill with this whole subject. Most of the new 4k players will offer dual HDMI outputs, so you will be able to connect one output to any HDMI 1.4 compatible device for the audio, and directly to the TV for the video. And, from that recent story, it seems as if this option is sometimes necessary anyway - even with equipment that supposedly should support HDMI 2.0 a just fine. And, because many people are obviously buying a new 4k TV, but may not be eager to replace or upgrade their current audio system, I don't see this option disappearing any time soon. And, for the folks among us who consider having to use two cables, and switch the input on two different devices, to be a nuisance, well, many of you probably use a programmable remote control anyway - so you can just have it switch both devices with one button anyway. And now we have different versions of HDR, each of which is supported by some but not all TVs, and some but not all players. And, even without all that stuff, if you have a smart TV, you're still stuck doing some stuff from the TV itself. (For example, I still play videos directly from a USB stick on my TV, and send some video directly from my computer, which requires me to operate those features from the TV's "smart features menu" anyway.) Sadly, I'm afraid that "just plug it in and have it work" isn't a realistic hope any time soon... at least not until the target stops moving for a year or two and gives everyone time to catch up - which is probably not ever going to happen.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 25, 2016 11:56:10 GMT -5
The short answer there is that (as far as I know) we haven't designed it yet, and so it may use chips that aren't even available today...... The single-port HDMI 2.0 boards we're producing now (the new "HDMI 2.0 update board"), which support HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2, on one input, will NOT pass the 18 Gb bandwidth required for HDR. The multi-port one, WHICH ISN'T SCHEDULED FOR A WHILE YET, will almost certainly support HDMI 2.0a, which includes HDR 10. However, bear in mind that the whole HDR question is still very new.... The real question is going to be whether the market will "stick with" HDR 10, which is part of HDMI 2.0a.... Or whether Dolby Vision will catch on, which would suggest an update to the HDMI spec to incorporate it (HDMI 2.0b ) (And would also suggest that vendors will start producing switch chips that support it.) I wouldn't even really want to guess until HDR in general has been out a while, and we see how well it's received in the market, and what standard ends up being "the one". So far I haven't even SEEN a video in Dolby Vision - and precious few in HDR 10. ............................ so, out of curiosity, which formats are Emotivas multi port hdmi board upgrades going to support?
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Post by moovtune on Feb 25, 2016 12:39:36 GMT -5
These reviews are indicating which HDR is used, if it's correct or not I don't know. What bothers me is the fact they seem to be from 2K masters. That's like the early days of Blu-ray releases when they were still using old masters made for DVD release. ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/reviews.html
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Post by jmilton on Feb 25, 2016 13:38:23 GMT -5
The short answer there is that (as far as I know) we haven't designed it yet, and so it may use chips that aren't even available today...... The single-port HDMI 2.0 boards we're producing now (the new "HDMI 2.0 update board"), which support HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2, on one input, will NOT pass the 18 Gb bandwidth required for HDR. The multi-port one, WHICH ISN'T SCHEDULED FOR A WHILE YET, will almost certainly support HDMI 2.0a, which includes HDR 10. However, bear in mind that the whole HDR question is still very new.... The real question is going to be whether the market will "stick with" HDR 10, which is part of HDMI 2.0a.... Or whether Dolby Vision will catch on, which would suggest an update to the HDMI spec to incorporate it (HDMI 2.0b ) (And would also suggest that vendors will start producing switch chips that support it.) I wouldn't even really want to guess until HDR in general has been out a while, and we see how well it's received in the market, and what standard ends up being "the one". So far I haven't even SEEN a video in Dolby Vision - and precious few in HDR 10. so, out of curiosity, which formats are Emotivas multi port hdmi board upgrades going to support? I have read that the good news is many HDMI 2.0 devices released this year are getting a firmware update to be HDMI 2.0a. Unlike the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0, there don't seem to be hardware limitations to go from 2.0 to 2.0a. If you bought an HDMI 2.0 device this year, best to check with the manufacturer if you're going to upgrade your gear to be HDR. And, in case you were concerned, anything that supports Dolby Vision supports HDR 10 by default, it just doesn’t work in the reverse, because Dolby Vision is 12 bit.
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 25, 2016 14:31:09 GMT -5
In all fairness, I think everyone is making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill with this whole subject. Most of the new 4k players will offer dual HDMI outputs, so you will be able to connect one output to any HDMI 1.4 compatible device for the audio, and directly to the TV for the video. And, from that recent story, it seems as if this option is sometimes necessary anyway - even with equipment that supposedly should support HDMI 2.0 a just fine. And, because many people are obviously buying a new 4k TV, but may not be eager to replace or upgrade their current audio system, I don't see this option disappearing any time soon. Totally agree. I actually prefer this method because it allows you to have "automatic" screen setting changes for each input. For the Blu-ray input, I have the TV set at it's optimum settings, because we almost always watch Blurays at night with the lights dimmed or off. But for DirecTV, I have the brightness and contrast turned up slightly for daytime viewing. Switching inputs on the TV makes the switch happen automatically. Much better to switch inputs than to switch back and forth between picture settings, especially with wives and kids that will change the picture setting and then never put it back to the proper setting. I would have to check the setting every single time I turned on the TV. I also like the idea of sending the video direct with no middle man so to speak. Unfortunately, not necessarily true. Many TV's have "cycle through" input selectors, not "direct input" selectors. A lot of remotes will not handle the "cycle through" process. That's why it would be nice if all TV's had direct input select. Many projectors do have it that way, but many TV's do not.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 25, 2016 16:41:59 GMT -5
Yes - and no... it's a little more complicated than that. First off (according to the information we have).... HDMI 2.0a supports the "HDR 10" version of HDR; and HDR 10 REQUIRES that you use the Rec 2020 color space.; therefore, in order to support HDMI 2.0a, and HDR 10, a device MUST support the Rec 2020 color space. In order to support 4k, with the Rec 2020 color space, a device MUST support the highest 16 Gbps HDMI data rate. However, support for the 16 Gbps data rate is OPTIONAL for HDMI 2.0 (so only some HDMI 2.0 devices support it).. So, if a device is HDMI 2.0, and it supports that 16 Gbps data rate, then it can support the Rec 2020 color space, and so can be firmware upgraded to HDMI 2.0a (maybe). But, if the HDMI 2.0 device does NOT support the 16 Gbps data rate (which tends to be a hardware limitation), then it cannot be upgraded to HDMI 2.0a by firmware alone. So, in other words, some HDMI 2.0 things can (theoretically) be upgraded to HDMI 2.0a by a firmware upgrade alone - others cannot. (And, no, the single-port HDMI 2.0 card for the XMC-1 will NOT be upgradable to HDMI 2.0a by firmware - because the switch hardware we use doesn't do 16 Gbps.) And, while it's almost certainly true that any DEVICE that supports Dolby Vision's 12 bit HDR will support HDR 10, according to some sources, the disc or video stream itself must include an extra data stream to ensure that backward compatibility. This means that many streaming sources, since they have limited bandwidth, would have to sacrifice picture quality with their Dolby Vision video stream in order to make room for the extra data needed to provide backward compatibility with HDR 10 (which they probably wouldn't want to do). (So, odds are that most discs will support both, but that most streaming services, because of their limited bandwidth, will choose one or the other.) Now, it also seems obvious to me that a player APP that supports Dolby Vision will be able to convert to HDR 10 and output HDR 10 if it wants to. However, it also seems obvious that Dolby Vision will require a separate license - and not all of the players announced so far say they will support it. (And it's also possible that Dolby might choose not to license a decoder for Dolby Vision for use on devices that only support HDR 10.) In short, I don't think you'll get stuck with a disc that won't play on a certain player, or won't display on a certain TV... but whether you'll get HDR on your streaming content will be a lot more subject to the whims and compatibility issues of individual vendors. (But then, with far less bandwidth than you get with discs, I think the jury is still out on how much benefit you'll get between HD and 4k on streaming content anyway.) I have read that the good news is many HDMI 2.0 devices released this year are getting a firmware update to be HDMI 2.0a. Unlike the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0, there don't seem to be hardware limitations to go from 2.0 to 2.0a. If you bought an HDMI 2.0 device this year, best to check with the manufacturer if you're going to upgrade your gear to be HDR. And, in case you were concerned, anything that supports Dolby Vision supports HDR 10 by default, it just doesn’t work in the reverse, because Dolby Vision is 12 bit.
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Post by restless on Feb 29, 2016 19:47:57 GMT -5
My First Impressions:
4K TV is LG OLED 55'. 1080P Blu Ray is OPPO 93. 4K Blu Ray is Samsung's newest unit, will all updates.
Movie is Martian, both 1080P Blu Ray and 4K Blu Ray shipped in same container, so used that pair of disks. (Had earlier copy as well in 1080P). Sitting about 6-7 Feet from the OLED TV.
Have new HDMI 2.2 cables for the Samsung to OLED connection (none came in the Samsung box).
Samsung on HDMI 2 input, and that input set to allow HDR and 4K @ 60fps.
OPPO is routing via EMC-1, and out to the HDMI Port 3 input on the TV.
I have spent the last hour watching the same chapters, jumping from 1080P to 4K and back. Re-watching the same Chapter several times, on both.
I really have to say that the difference is minimal. Splitting hairs. Maybe at 65" or 85", it may be better.
I am the type that needs to see things for himself. Really wanted to see that 2X or 4X improvement we saw between VHS and Blu Ray. 480P to 1080P was very noticeable. This not so much.
A bit disappointed, but will try another DISK as well.
Also, I believe the LG may be upscaling from 1080P to 4K anyway, so the difference is really minor. There was more difference going from A 1080P LCD EDGE LIT Sony TV to the LG OLED set. I may have seen more of the impact to the change to 4K TV rather than in the MEDIA.
When watching on the two different HDMI INPUT on the OLED, I compared like SETTING on the PICTURE. STANDARD to STANDARD, CINEMA to CINEMA, etc. VIVID was the only setting that was exceptionally bad. CINEMA seemed to be the best choice between the Picture setting for this particular Movie.
Bottom line, the 4K Samsung unit may be going back, and I will wait for OPPO to come out with something new later this year or next.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 16, 2016 19:04:57 GMT -5
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 16, 2016 19:17:15 GMT -5
In case you were wondering, £600 is approximately $855usd, so this gives us some idea what it may start selling at here in the US. From what I understand, electronics tend to be a bit more expensive in the UK for something similar here in the US, so hopefully it'll debut here somewhere in the $600-$700 range, though I think that might be somewhat wishful thinking?
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Post by qdtjni on Mar 16, 2016 19:21:03 GMT -5
It's already released here in Switzerland. I expect mine to arrive the 19th.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 16, 2016 19:29:08 GMT -5
It's already released here in Switzerland. I expect mine to arrive the 19th. Do come back here and give us a review once you've had time to play!!!
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Mar 16, 2016 19:42:16 GMT -5
I am happy to wait for an Oppo. Mark I think ill get into your boat Mark, seems like a very reasonable decision.
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