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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2010 7:23:08 GMT -5
It's all Greek to me, monsieur der Herr.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 13, 2010 9:38:42 GMT -5
Got something written in English? I know I am of German descent but I dont read or speak a lick of it. |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 13, 2010 10:37:25 GMT -5
The Z11 uses an ie transformer with 11 powered channels. The Onkyo 906 uses a toroidal transformer(And actually its the same size you find in a UPA-7)which is more efficient and only powering 7 channels. The Onkyo uses a higher quality set of Toshiba output devices. The Yamaha uses a generic Korean off brand set. Secondary capacitance actually favors the Onkyo when you break it down per channel. Also if your using the analog inputs on the Onkyo for your audio ABing, then your not using the Onkyo's DACs at all. Do your AB comparing with digital coax or optical inputs, not the analog rca inputs. The one weakpoint of the 906 are the analog inputs. But if your bitstreaming out from your source into the 906 its a different animal. Hehe, and if your looking for an 886, you really already know what its basically capable of because the 906 is pretty much an 886 with a built in amp section minus a few bells and whistles. The EI core transformer in the Z11 is the biggest one in the world. A Toroidal does not mean it's better. An EI core, if well done, is as efficient as a Toroidal. My 906 has only two 18,000 uF (75V) block capacitors. My Z11 has two 27,000 uF (75V) main block capacitors for the seven main channels, plus more block capacitors for the four presence channels, and other secondary caps, for a total of about 100,000 uF overall. My 906 uses a pair of complementary Toshiba transistors for each channel, mass picked. My Z11 uses hand picked transistors that are perfectly matched together for best performance. My Z11 is better equipped overall for filter capacitance, well matched transistors, extra high current into more channels (11), more DACS (seven instead of five for my 906). If I use the Analog inputs (including the Multichannel ones) from my 906, the audio signal passed through some digital processing (to the contrary of what people believe). And it is a fact that my Z11 sounds better from both Analog & Digital inputs. My 906 is simply not as much detailed and spacious. My Z11 is much more natural and better balanced across the full audio spectrum. Finally, the 886 sounds much better than my 906, because of all the separate preamp circuits. It is more open, suave, more resolved and better delineated, in both micro and macro dynamics. Remember, I've been at this for over 45 years, and always kept up with the very latest. * One thing these three components are missing, 3D capability. -> And you might try to convince me of the contrary, like you just tried here, but I have to tell you, it is futile. I am extremely confident in my findings, listening experiences, knowledge, and audio exchanges with some of the greatest in the industry. Best regards & good luck,  Lord 1. An ei transformer is nowhere near as efficient as a toroidal. THey throw off a ton of heat. SO I dont doubt they use a big one. 4 more channels driven, and lots of energy wasted as heat. 2. Ill take REAL Toshiba output transistors over "hand picked"(whatever that means.......do they "grab" em out of a big korean box? "Hand picked", lol ) 3. The 906 last I knew uses 7/8 DACs, one for each channel since it is a true 7.1 surround AVR. I could be wrong here but its highly doubtful........I may actually crack into mine now. 4. More channels(11) does not mean better quality. I mean, unless you want your AVR to power one or 2 extra zones it really is just fluff. I mean, right now 99.99% of all Blu's made are still decoded 5.1.........with a small handful in 7.1. And how long have we had 7.1 AVRs? The extra DACs on the Z11 can come in handy if they can be used for zone 2 or 3, but past that they will probably never be used in the rightful sense. 5. THe 906 uses independant block construction just like the 886. There are more detailed differences without question,as one block section on the 906 is powering the amp section vs. doing the output section on the 886 but in essense the 906 and 886 are very close in overall design layout. The 886's analog section is better, but beyond that, the XLR outputs and a few more EQ functions its basically the same piece. Using a good redbook CD transport ported into the 886 or 906 via digital coax or optical, I can't tell the difference between them, and my ears I consider to be more sensitive than most to obvious audio changes. I own em both, I just AB'd em extensively with the UMC-1. Both were significant upgrades for music decoding over the UMC-1, but compared to each other the differences were literally non existant when using digital inputs direct to them. I mean no matter how you look at it, all the pieces mentioned here are not top tier AVR's pre/pros. They are mass produced midgrade units at best. Amp, analog and digital section. For me when it comes to serious music listening, I would bypass all of them. They are first and formost HT units. ANd for HT, all that matters is 5.1/7.1.......beyond that(9.1,9.2,11.2 etc)is just useless fluff features that will never be fully utilized in its produced generation. Though, I'd like to see an english translated version of the german comparison link you gave regardless. So like I said earlier, Id flip it for a profit, pick up something like an 886, 5507, XMC-1(UMC-1 even assuming the music source has excellent DACs) etc. with a seperate dedicated amp for roughly the same money. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 21:27:47 GMT -5
Got something written in English? I know I am of German descent but I dont read or speak a lick of it. Yeah I know (my wife speak German fluently), but like I said you need to use that "Translation" feature. It's supposed to be part of your Google toolbar. If it's not there, simply add it. Or what you can also try is to go to that site directly; www.areadvd.de and from there you might be able to access that 'Translation' feature, which in my case is automatic. Then simply go to the Receiver's reviews section, and voila. It's a great site, with the best pictures (internal & external) of the entire internet. Also, these people use the best equipment (speakers, sources, displays, cables 'hiiii', etc.) to have a very objective grasp at what to listen for and the true final results. Of course, they are not perfect, but they for sure give their best shot at it. It's a good site of cool informations to add to your portfolio in your curriculum vitae. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 21:29:30 GMT -5
It's all Greek to me, monsieur der Herr. I just told ntrain42 how to proceed, don't you read the other's posts before posting yours? |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 13, 2010 21:33:42 GMT -5
Google toolbar? LOL, dont have one.......I use a crappy 10" netbook running XP.......im lucky to have a single window opened and yahoo IM running without it locking up, LOL!
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 22:20:03 GMT -5
ntrain42, I could tell you all the inners of my receivers (first thing I do when I purchase a new toy, is to always remove the top cover and do a thorough inspection of all the parts, circuitry, wiring, layouts of the circuit boards, separate powered sections; audio, video, amp, preamp..., quality of those parts, serial numbers, level of the humming noise from the main transformer, I also use instrumentation and precision tools, I isolate and custom make at the most strategic points the inside and outside of the box by using the best material, I spend days to perfect the designs, sometimes weeks, and I simply won't take any less than what is the best that I could add myself). That's who I am, and this is my life.
* By the way, your Onky 906 has five (5) Texas Instruments Burr-Brown PCM-1796a Dacs total (stereo DAC), with one DAC NOT being used AT ALL!
* Also, the three DSPs in your 906 are the Texas Instruments, Aureus serial # 1. TI TMS 320 DAC 710. #2. TI TMS 320 DAC 708. #3. TI TMS 320 DAC 707.
* The Toshiba output transistors in your 906 are: 2sc 1962 / 2sc 5242 complementary devices, per channel (these are triple-diffused devices).
* Like I said before, the dual caps have a total capacitance of 36,000 uF (18,000 uF x 2, with 75 Volts).
* The Volume Control is a digital one using the Cirus Logic (Crystal DAC) CS3318, an 8-channel digital volume control chip (DVC).
* The Phono section in your 906 (not a bad one at all for a receiver) uses the NE5532 chip coupled to a discrete differential pair in front for low noise and high gain.
* The Headphone Amp section of your 906 has a deluxe treatment, using discrete AB output stage following a NE5532 chip for lowest impedance headphones with low distortion.
* The NE5532 chip is a dual operational amplifier used in ALL sections.
* The SPDIF audio signals used a Cirrus Logic, Crystal CS42516 codec chip for the two-channel ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) of your 906. It is an 8-channel codec chip with 6 Audio Dacs UNUSED.
* Zones 2 and 3 from your 906 have a volume & tone functions that operate in the Analog domain. The chip used for that is Onkyo's own Custom chip, the R2S15211FP.
* In your 906, there are close to 90 Passive CMOS Analog switches; including a large custom Toshiba TC94A46 chip along with a smaller New Japan Radio NJU73ix chip.
* The video processor in your 906 (this, you know already), is the HQV (Hollywood High Quality Video) Reon VX-50 VP chip, equipped with separate and numerous video adjustments per each individual video input. Also your 906 has ISF certification (for professional video calibration).
* As you well know already, your 906 is THX Ultra2 Plus certified with THX Loudness Plus, has Audyssey MultEQ XT Auto Room Correction & Calibration, Audyssey Dynamic EQ, Audyssey Dynamic Volume, VLSC (Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry) for ALL channels... It just keep on and on...
---> I can keep on forever, but this site will be closed due to extra large demands from infinite informations (and this, only regarding your Onkyo TX-NR906 A/V Receiver).
So, you can just imagine now about the Yamaha RX-Z11.
Like I said before, I made this hobby that I truly love my own and devoted business to know it ALL, and even beyond that, down to the designers that work on my components and to the philosophy behind it. I'm WAYYY down to Earth about my Audio hobby, and I go to the extent of unknown territories that I make my own and personal challenges to discover.
Need I say more?
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 22:25:13 GMT -5
Oh, and I was born under a bad moon rising sign (same exact day and hour, but not same year, as Adolph Hitler).
And I kidd you not.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 22:29:58 GMT -5
Google toolbar? LOL, dont have one.......I use a crappy 10" netbook running XP.......im lucky to have a single window opened and yahoo IM running without it locking up, LOL! I'm also running XP, so you should be able to call that feature. I really wish you can find it, because I know you're the exact type of person that would love to read on that site. Try anything; borrow your wife's computer by telling her you deeply love her to death, or steal one from your brother or sister, or kill if you have to (it's worth it ). |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 22:46:19 GMT -5
Oh, there is a very good reason why I'm here at the Lounge. Emotiva products are truly amazing by their overall performance, regardless of price. I did and still do recommend them to a LOT of people, for several years now. * I also like Onkyo products (in particular from 2007 up to now and going forward). So, your 906 has been recommended to a lot of people by no other than your humble servitor, me (LOTR). BUT (and a big BUTT too  ), EMOTIVA is #1 (maybe not quite there yet with the UMC-1, but certainly at the edge of ALMOST PERFECTION). Heck, I don't know why I'm not one of their official salesperson or main spokesman. ...I do feel I am though. ...And never get a paycheque either! |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2010 22:48:40 GMT -5
Wow! Anybody cares to comment?
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Mar 14, 2010 1:39:56 GMT -5
Are you ok LOTR? j/k
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Post by SeattleHTGuy on Mar 14, 2010 1:51:36 GMT -5
Yep, lordofthe rings, I'll comment. ntrain42 will now come back with a
Well...... Uuuuhhhhh......because I said so....... Then cut and paste a bunch of BS....... repeat the because I said so......crap about 20 more times, and then end it all with a "You need an Audio Control Device".....
Now, If you ask him to attempt anything later than late 90s technology (It is of course 2010)..... Geee I don't know, like a decent PC with a browser anything later than explorer 6.0 or, heaven forbid...... an actual fairly up to date technology solution..... We get the post from god!!!! "Because I said so"....
Seriously someone appoints themselves god, genius, keeper of technology and they can't click an icon to translate......? The bigger issue is they can't read a response and comprehend.
As you can tell, I have attempted to disagree with the self "annointed one" before with less than satisfactory results (Kick the creep to the can)!!!
So, perhaps, it is I who is kicked but.
1). Game, Set, Match to you!!! (Damn you to hell for actually knowing your product)
2). No one who can't turn on a PC should be allowed to diss technologies that actually do PC based EQ. More importantly, they are totally unqualified to respond to.
3). It's clear to me that If ntrain42, doesn't own it.... second or third hand... and it resides in his bedroom.... it is not good equipment. We are of course, heathens...
4). One should stop arguing with someone when the poster says "I like the way it sounds/performs/looks and I have tried many different products and solutions." Personally, I don't care for horns.... and yet.... some of those classic and rebuilt Klipsch monsters are way, way cool. Kind of like an original Shelby.... I have to admire the passion...
Only freaks go further than that so.... fo what it's worth...
I love my Emotiva Amps.
I love the sound of good B&W Speakers (Yep, they ain't value to most people).
I love my Denon 4810 with all 11.+++ firing. (It also sounds great in classic pure stereo). Any person who has ever listened to my room, be it Pure Direct Stereo or Dolby True HD, via Audyssey DSX Wide + Height, with Dolby PLIIx Cinema is amazed by my media room. Those who are inexperienced or incompentent with this system need to shut up. They have nothing to add. Those with a 80s based bias.... need not comment.
I love my room (With it's minor flaws)
I love my 35 Terrabyte Server and all it's glory of music and movies.
I love my Tivo 3
And no idiot who lives on a 10 inch XP based and occasionally messes with an Audicontrol thingy can tell me otherwise. I also don't set myself up as some kind of uber expert; even though if you want to build an HTPC, home network, movie streaming single remote controlled system - I now comfortably would say, I kind of am. I actually am a hobbyist who is here to help people with budgets less than mine. I can give advice on how to stream movies from a budget of $4K to $20k with actual hands on experience and yet, I don't need to tell people they are idiots. What a concept.
So to you, lord of the rings., expect some ridiculous response that yet again attempts to make you seem unknowledgable and inferior. That is what unusual, unhappy people do. I will toast your room with a very nice Quilceda Creek Cabernet the next time my friends come over to have a nice steak on the BBQ and enjoy a movie in my clearly inferior media room.... Well, because ntrain42 "Said So"!!!
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Mar 14, 2010 1:56:49 GMT -5
Uh oh.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Mar 14, 2010 1:57:24 GMT -5
This could get ugly. Because I said so.
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Post by SeattleHTGuy on Mar 14, 2010 2:01:52 GMT -5
I'm prepared to get kicked.... The arrogance just has gotten too stupid for me... Goodnight all.... One other thing... I actually own and enjoy Emotiva gear.....
What a concept....
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Mar 14, 2010 2:05:34 GMT -5
I love my Emo gear as well. I'm certainly open to other options though.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 14, 2010 2:08:05 GMT -5
Yeah I do get that sometimes (overenthusiastic). But I'm goddam mighty fine. * Hey Paul, do I know you also from another forum? |
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Mar 14, 2010 2:14:23 GMT -5
Maybe. Outlaw forum possibly?
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 14, 2010 3:09:16 GMT -5
Yep, lordofthe rings, I'll comment. ntrain42 will now come back with a Well...... Uuuuhhhhh......because I said so....... Then cut and paste a bunch of BS....... repeat the because I said so......crap about 20 more times, and then end it all with a "You need an Audio Control Device"..... Now, If you ask him to attempt anything later than late 90s technology (It is of course 2010)..... Geee I don't know, like a decent PC with a browser anything later than explorer 6.0 or, heaven forbid...... an actual fairly up to date technology solution..... We get the post from god!!!! "Because I said so".... Seriously someone appoints themselves god, genius, keeper of technology and they can't click an icon to translate......? The bigger issue is they can't read a response and comprehend. As you can tell, I have attempted to disagree with the self "annointed one" before with less than satisfactory results (Kick the creep to the can)!!! So, perhaps, it is I who is kicked but. 1). Game, Set, Match to you!!! (Damn you to hell for actually knowing your product) 2). No one who can't turn on a PC should be allowed to diss technologies that actually do PC based EQ. More importantly, they are totally unqualified to respond to. 3). It's clear to me that If ntrain42, doesn't own it.... second or third hand... and it resides in his bedroom.... it is not good equipment. We are of course, heathens... 4). One should stop arguing with someone when the poster says "I like the way it sounds/performs/looks and I have tried many different products and solutions." Personally, I don't care for horns.... and yet.... some of those classic and rebuilt Klipsch monsters are way, way cool. Kind of like an original Shelby.... I have to admire the passion... Only freaks go further than that so.... fo what it's worth... I love my Emotiva Amps. I love the sound of good B&W Speakers (Yep, they ain't value to most people). I love my Denon 4810 with all 11.+++ firing. (It also sounds great in classic pure stereo). Any person who has ever listened to my room, be it Pure Direct Stereo or Dolby True HD, via Audyssey DSX Wide + Height, with Dolby PLIIx Cinema is amazed by my media room. Those who are inexperienced or incompentent with this system need to shut up. They have nothing to add. Those with a 80s based bias.... need not comment. I love my room (With it's minor flaws) I love my 35 Terrabyte Server and all it's glory of music and movies. I love my Tivo 3 And no idiot who lives on a 10 inch XP based and occasionally messes with an Audicontrol thingy can tell me otherwise. I also don't set myself up as some kind of uber expert; even though if you want to build an HTPC, home network, movie streaming single remote controlled system - I now comfortably would say, I kind of am. I actually am a hobbyist who is here to help people with budgets less than mine. I can give advice on how to stream movies from a budget of $4K to $20k with actual hands on experience and yet, I don't need to tell people they are idiots. What a concept. So to you, lord of the rings., expect some ridiculous response that yet again attempts to make you seem unknowledgable and inferior. That is what unusual, unhappy people do. I will toast your room with a very nice Quilceda Creek Cabernet the next time my friends come over to have a nice steak on the BBQ and enjoy a movie in my clearly inferior media room.... Well, because ntrain42 "Said So"!!! Well this is the best post I've read in the last 48 hours or so, and let me tell you that I've read quite a few. I am very familiar with your setup and posting as I visit AVS regularly in the right threads ONLY, and as a visitor STRICTLY. I know you took the time to write this post, as you did in your review from your superb Denon AVR-4810CI A/V Receiver over there at AVS, and from several posts too. I agree with you that some people (many actually) are quite fixed by their own fix. But that's what audio does to many of us, so we forget them. But the few ones that do appreciate and learn from reading with an open mind, are the ones that make all the difference and make it worthwhile to communicate in audio forums like this one right here. I've seen a lot; hatred, gratification, offers, many many thanks for best advice from several people (of course, that's what I do for a living), and I can honestly say that no matter what, Blues is runnig deep inside my veins, and my life with audio components since I was just a young pop has giving me strength over the years (I built my own first surround system with center rear surround single loudspeaker back in 1969-70, and I was playing with electronics in the mid 60s, and I have few friends that have been at it since the 30s, and I keep score with them too), and today I made it my goal in life to sort things out of people's illusions about what is and what not. But one thing though, an important one too, always having good time, even when I'm serious or not. And if others cannot grasp this, then they are indeed at the right place to learn. And to the few people that lost track by judging me wrongfully, they gave me even more strength in my pursuit of happyness. SeattleHTGuy, talk to me anytime you wish so, and be free in your speach, talk your heart out without fear, without borders, without prejudice, just exactly the way you did right here right now; I'm always listening to the wisest ones and always responding too. Some people might take some joy in destroying other people's lifes, but they are blinded into their own selfdestruction, and their egos and illusions of feeling powerful in the eyes of others are their own sensations of pain running deep down their souls, and they don't even realise it. I studied Philosophy asnd Psychology, I've been offered to even teach them to others, and I graduated with perfect scores, plus winning speaches on life, freedom, love, war, peace..., on all what this planet is about. I don't fear anymore, I already died several times in my life, I met with the maker and the doer and the taker, and the giver, God, Satan, the apostles, the hypocrits, the fortunate few, and I talked to forces directly from the waves of the ocean far away from the shores and nothing else to hold on to but alone in the vast sea, no boat, no nothing but the strong sun of noon and with only my grip to life itself. I also live the greatest depression, with suicide on my mind every single day for several years; I've seen the deepest and darkest holes in this Earth, and the devil himself was my best friend. I travel in and out physically and mentally to the four corners of the universe, and I never encountered any more dimensions than only nine. Everything I say, I do, I live, is true to the fullest of life itself. If it wouldn't I wouldn't be here to tell you. * Now, was it so hard of an offer to refuse? Nope, that's why I did buy it (the Z11). But I do appreciate all the feedbacks I got from all of you though, and even more than that, you guys did gain as much as I did from this experience, because at the end, it's not the physical presence of the product itself in your own house that truly counts, but it's what you/we BELIEVE. And that is my love back to you, Bob |
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), EMOTIVA is #1 (maybe not quite there yet with the UMC-1, but certainly at the edge of ALMOST PERFECTION).
