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Post by nickwin on Apr 29, 2010 18:01:20 GMT -5
My previous processor was the Emotiva MMC-1 and PLIIx didn't degrade the sound in my system like a few have complained. I now have the SC-886 and again it doesn't degrade the sound when used with 5.1 sources to get 7.1 output nor with 2.0 sources to derive 7.1 You never experienced a degradation in sound even when using PLIIx on a 2.0 source? Using PLII or PLIIx on 2.0 sources always sounded terrible on the Denon AVR's I've owned. It would always sound better output in stereo or even Direct for me. I understand your argument than PIIx shouldn't effect the SQ of your front 3 speakers when applied to a 5.1 signal, but when your talking about starting with a 2.0 signal, there's no way that that isn't going to effect SQ. I mean taking a 2.0 source and making it into a 5.1 or 7.1 signal takes some serious post processing, and that processing never helps sound quality. |
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Post by moovtune on Apr 29, 2010 19:07:29 GMT -5
If the 2.0 source was originally an Lt-Rt Dolby encoded source, either from an L/C/R/S or L/C/R/Ls/Rs master, it should decode back to the LCRS or LCRLsRs without a degradation in sound with a PLII decoder. the "x" would then create back speakers. Dolby encoders have been around since the 70's and have been pretty well perfected by now. Maybe you could explain what you mean by "degradation". I'd be interested in knowing what it is you hear happen to the signal when you apply PLII to a Dolby Stereo source. I'm not talking about using it on a CD or actual Stereo source, but to perhaps a movie that only had Dolby Stereo encoding. For example, Warner's just released a few catalog titles recently where they left them as Dolby encoded on the Blu-Ray. "Presumed Innocent" is a DTS-HDM 2.0 as is "Frantic". And of course there are many older DVD titles that are just Dolby Stereo. Most films that are dolby stereo were L/C/R/S, separate channels when created on the dub stage and then are Dolby Encoded to Lt-Rt Stereo for the release. They are meant to be decoded back to L/C/R/S by the decoder, whether in the theater or at home. The sound shouldn't be degraded by that technique. Unless you're just saying that you've never liked Dolby Surround in the first place and discrete 5.1 is all you care to listen to. (But you should know, in the case of older Dolby Stereo titles where the individual stems are no longer available, the new 5.1 element starts off as a decoded Lt-Rt Dolby Stereo and is then processed to make it more like a modern mix)
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Post by nickwin on Apr 29, 2010 19:20:08 GMT -5
If the 2.0 source was originally an Lt-Rt Dolby encoded source, either from an L/C/R/S or L/C/R/Ls/Rs master, it should decode back to the LCRS or LCRLsRs without a degradation in sound with a PLII decoder. the "x" would then create back speakers. Dolby encoders have been around since the 70's and have been pretty well perfected by now. Maybe you could explain what you mean by "degradation". I'd be interested in knowing what it is you hear happen to the signal when you apply PLII to a Dolby Stereo source. I'm not talking about using it on a CD or actual Stereo source, but to perhaps a movie that only had Dolby Stereo encoding. For example, Warner's just released a few catalog titles recently where they left them as Dolby encoded on the Blu-Ray. "Presumed Innocent" is a DTS-HDM 2.0 as is "Frantic". And of course there are many older DVD titles that are just Dolby Stereo. Most films that are dolby stereo were L/C/R/S, separate channels when created on the dub stage and then are Dolby Encoded to Lt-Rt Stereo for the release. They are meant to be decoded back to L/C/R/S by the decoder, whether in the theater or at home. The sound shouldn't be degraded by that technique. Unless you're just saying that you've never liked Dolby Surround in the first place and discrete 5.1 is all you care to listen to. (But you should know, in the case of older Dolby Stereo titles where the individual stems are no longer available, the new 5.1 element starts off as a decoded Lt-Rt Dolby Stereo and is then processed to make it more like a modern mix) Ok, I misunderstood you. When you said 2.0 I thought you meant regular stereo, like off a CD, not Dolby Stereo. I honestly haven't experimented with applying PLII to a Dolby Stereo source, so I cant comment there. But back to MPCM, since that is not originally encoded in Dolby Stereo, DD5.1 or any other form of Dolby, isn't applying PLII(x) to that kind of like applying it to a strait 2.0 signal, like a CD (since they are both PCM)? And isn't that totally different then applying it to something that was originally encoded in some version of Dolby? |
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Post by ronin1000 on Apr 30, 2010 3:42:21 GMT -5
I still find it odd that we have not heard if this issue will be fixed. People who have "Fat" PS3's should not have to watch all of their Blu Rays in Direct Mode and lose all post processing should they? And using DPLIIX does not seem to be an acceptable solution. Should the UMC-1 not have a multi channel PCM mode that still utilize all post processing? . Although the EQ does not seem to function, I can still adjust speaker trim level when playing Blu-Rays with a PS3 Fat. Besides the EQ, what other post processing would be desirable for DTS-HD or Dolbly True-HD soundtracks? |
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Post by ronin1000 on Apr 30, 2010 3:44:01 GMT -5
I feel like "Ronin1000" is stalking me haha.. Last time I posted about my UMC-1 not playing nice with my projector while Deep Color is enabled he posted roughly a hour after me.... and history repeats itself once more. How odd  Ha Ha Ha. Its the "Deep Color Conspiracy" |
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Post by ronin1000 on Apr 30, 2010 3:56:13 GMT -5
I placed the UMC-1 in "Direct" when watching the latest edition of Lord of the Rings 1 and 2 via PS3 Fat LPCM and I was very happy with the sound  BTW: UMC-1 works with Deep Color on or off with my Epson 1080ub projector UMC-1 V 6, not beta updated Do you have a subwoofer? If so, were you getting sound from it in Direct? I know that when your feeding the UMC an analog signal, if you put it in direct, it bypasses all EQ (so your sub would not be in use), but Im curious as to how is Direct handled with a digital input? Yes, I have a sub and it shakes the room in the Direct Mode. I tested to see if the EQ works when I am playing BLU-Rays by setting a manual EQ to a totally wacked out configuration then I switched between that one and a manual EQ that I know is legit. NO difference, so I don't think that the EQ is working. I can, however, adjust the trim level on all the speakers including the sub. Hope that helps! |
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Post by huffer on Apr 30, 2010 8:03:32 GMT -5
I still find it odd that we have not heard if this issue will be fixed. People who have "Fat" PS3's should not have to watch all of their Blu Rays in Direct Mode and lose all post processing should they? And using DPLIIX does not seem to be an acceptable solution. Should the UMC-1 not have a multi channel PCM mode that still utilize all post processing? . Although the EQ does not seem to function, I can still adjust speaker trim level when playing Blu-Rays with a PS3 Fat. Besides the EQ, what other post processing would be desirable for DTS-HD or Dolbly True-HD soundtracks? I think I shouldn't have used the word post processing. I was mainly thinking about the EQ and Bass Management. |
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Post by nickwin on Apr 30, 2010 9:24:49 GMT -5
Do you have a subwoofer? If so, were you getting sound from it in Direct? I know that when your feeding the UMC an analog signal, if you put it in direct, it bypasses all EQ (so your sub would not be in use), but Im curious as to how is Direct handled with a digital input? Yes, I have a sub and it shakes the room in the Direct Mode. I tested to see if the EQ works when I am playing BLU-Rays by setting a manual EQ to a totally wacked out configuration then I switched between that one and a manual EQ that I know is legit. NO difference, so I don't think that the EQ is working. I can, however, adjust the trim level on all the speakers including the sub. Hope that helps! According to Emotiva, when your using Direct with a digital input, it will bypass EQ but you still get Bass management. |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 30, 2010 9:54:48 GMT -5
In MCPCM, bass management, crossover, levels and trims are all functional. The only thing that is is not linked are the EQs but all other functions run. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Apr 30, 2010 10:28:25 GMT -5
Can we get the EQ linked? (or switchable EQ/No EQ)?
Thanks!
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Post by huffer on Apr 30, 2010 12:32:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the update Lonnie.
I am assuming that you are referring to handling MCPCM through "Direct"?
Any chance we could see the EQ's applied and have a MCPCM mode?
Thanks.
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Post by moovtune on Apr 30, 2010 13:31:53 GMT -5
If the 2.0 source was originally an Lt-Rt Dolby encoded source, either from an L/C/R/S or L/C/R/Ls/Rs master, it should decode back to the LCRS or LCRLsRs without a degradation in sound with a PLII decoder. the "x" would then create back speakers. Dolby encoders have been around since the 70's and have been pretty well perfected by now. Maybe you could explain what you mean by "degradation". I'd be interested in knowing what it is you hear happen to the signal when you apply PLII to a Dolby Stereo source. I'm not talking about using it on a CD or actual Stereo source, but to perhaps a movie that only had Dolby Stereo encoding. For example, Warner's just released a few catalog titles recently where they left them as Dolby encoded on the Blu-Ray. "Presumed Innocent" is a DTS-HDM 2.0 as is "Frantic". And of course there are many older DVD titles that are just Dolby Stereo. Most films that are dolby stereo were L/C/R/S, separate channels when created on the dub stage and then are Dolby Encoded to Lt-Rt Stereo for the release. They are meant to be decoded back to L/C/R/S by the decoder, whether in the theater or at home. The sound shouldn't be degraded by that technique. Unless you're just saying that you've never liked Dolby Surround in the first place and discrete 5.1 is all you care to listen to. (But you should know, in the case of older Dolby Stereo titles where the individual stems are no longer available, the new 5.1 element starts off as a decoded Lt-Rt Dolby Stereo and is then processed to make it more like a modern mix) Ok, I misunderstood you. When you said 2.0 I thought you meant regular stereo, like off a CD, not Dolby Stereo. I honestly haven't experimented with applying PLII to a Dolby Stereo source, so I cant comment there. But back to MPCM, since that is not originally encoded in Dolby Stereo, DD5.1 or any other form of Dolby, isn't applying PLII(x) to that kind of like applying it to a strait 2.0 signal, like a CD (since they are both PCM)? And isn't that totally different then applying it to something that was originally encoded in some version of Dolby? I usually listen to MCPCM (like from an SACD) in "direct" (or on my prepro "MultiPCM") mode. But you can apply PLIIx (movie or music) to it if you want your rear speakers (7.1) active. "Movie" mode should have minimal effect on the front channels and "music" mode could have a big effect on everything depending on where the three parameters (two I think in the UMC-1) are set. Also, it doesn't have to have been dolby encoded to work - applying it to a DTS 5.1 track would work to active your back speakers, and again should have little effect on the fronts (movie mode that is). Personally, for my two channel sources, if I want a more immersive listening experience, I use DTS Neo Music Mode. And this is mostly for orchestral music. I listen to a lot of orchestral soundtrack scores. I prefer it over PLIIx Music, even after trying to tweak the settings. I end up adjusting PLIIx music so it basically sounds like Neo6 anyway. I don't care for way-over-the-top surround levels or delay. |
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Post by mysterymachine on May 1, 2010 3:12:47 GMT -5
In MCPCM, bass management, crossover, levels and trims are all functional. The only thing that is is not linked are the EQs but all other functions run. Lonnie, I hate to contradict the man who wrote the code, but at least on my unit the bass management is not working on direct on M.PCM - well its half working - its trimming from the mains correctly at the crossover but not routing to the sub. If you want to borrow my 5.0 SACD to test send me a PM and I'll send it over. Full details including repro steps here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=11247Does anyones UMC allow them to apply PLIIx on MchPCM when they have only a 5.1 system? Mine does not - my only options are direct and stereo. |
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Post by Delaney on May 1, 2010 3:49:33 GMT -5
In MCPCM, bass management, crossover, levels and trims are all functional. The only thing that is is not linked are the EQs but all other functions run. Lonnie, I hate to contradict the man who wrote the code, but at least on my unit the bass management is not working on direct on M.PCM - well its half working - its trimming from the mains correctly at the crossover but not routing to the sub. If you want to borrow my 5.0 SACD to test send me a PM and I'll send it over. Full details including repro steps here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=11247Does anyones UMC allow them to apply PLIIx on MchPCM when they have only a 5.1 system? Mine does not - my only options are direct and stereo. I have two different modes called 'stereo'. The one is a true 2 channel stereo, and the other seems to be PLII. I must have been given the wrong label in the v6 Beta1 software. Do you also have two diffefent 'stereo' modes available? |
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Post by mysterymachine on May 1, 2010 4:14:54 GMT -5
Lonnie, I hate to contradict the man who wrote the code, but at least on my unit the bass management is not working on direct on M.PCM - well its half working - its trimming from the mains correctly at the crossover but not routing to the sub. If you want to borrow my 5.0 SACD to test send me a PM and I'll send it over. Full details including repro steps here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=11247Does anyones UMC allow them to apply PLIIx on MchPCM when they have only a 5.1 system? Mine does not - my only options are direct and stereo. I have two different modes called 'stereo'. The one is a true 2 channel stereo, and the other seems to be PLII. I must have been given the wrong label in the v6 Beta1 software. Do you also have two diffefent 'stereo' modes available? When I cycle modes with the + and - yes it seems like sometimes there is an all channel mode after stereo still labeled stereo. I am not sure what is going on there - not all multiPCM had that though if I remember right it depended on which disk. I'll test tomorrow. If I hit menu, and then Mode I cannot select PLII. If its at 48khz I can select DSP - but cannot select DSP on the higher res disks like SACD or the 192khz blu-ray audio disk I have. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 1, 2010 9:42:54 GMT -5
Can the OP or a mod change the main title of this thread to PCM instead of PMC please? |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 1, 2010 20:07:24 GMT -5
Can the OP or a mod change the main title of this thread to PCM instead of PMC please? That typo was annoying, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. |
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Post by LCSeminole on May 1, 2010 20:22:43 GMT -5
Has anyone here had any luck at getting all 5.1 channels on a LPCM 5.1 track on some blu-rays such as "Underworld" or "3:10 To Yuma" to play in "MultiPCM" mode on the UMC-1 without using DPL IIx? I have changed settings on my Panasonic blu-ray and the UMC-1 to no avail. If you have, please clue me in on what I'm not doing.
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Post by billmac on May 1, 2010 21:43:15 GMT -5
Has anyone here had any luck at getting all 5.1 channels on a LPCM 5.1 track on some blu-rays such as "Underworld" or "3:10 To Yuma" to play in "MultiPCM" mode on the UMC-1 without using DPL IIx? I have changed settings on my Panasonic blu-ray and the UMC-1 to no avail. If you have, please clue me in on what I'm not doing. LC, You are not doing anything wrong. When I had the UMC-1 with my Panasonic BD30 no matter what the settings were the UMC-1 would not play LPCM tracks in 5.1 only 2.0  . There is an issue with the UMC-1 that has to be corrected to be able to play Bluray LPCM at least when I had it with my BD30. I put my 886 back in my system and one of the first things I checked was Casino Royale with LPCM. The 886 displayed MultiPCM. So it was not a setting with my BD30 but the inability of the UMC-1 to play LPCM. Bill |
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Post by LCSeminole on May 1, 2010 22:08:51 GMT -5
Thanks Bill, I've been going over the settings for a few days trying to get the LPCM track to work, and now I know it's not me. Looks like I'll have to use the analog outputs on my blu-ray until the situation gets resolved.
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. There is an issue with the UMC-1 that has to be corrected to be able to play Bluray LPCM at least when I had it with my BD30. 