ntrain42
Emo VIPs 
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Dec 31, 2010 14:38:23 GMT -5
The most obvious variable you haven't eliminated in your comparison is the output impedance of whatever you're using as a preamp VS the input impedance differences between amplifiers. It is entirely possible that one amp will better match the preamp than another which can cause various performance differences. I thought about that, but that was also not the factor. The crosstalk was the same using the GCD 700(output impedance 100ohms 0-2.5volts),The Wadia(output impedance less than 15ohms 0-4volts roughly), or using fixed outputs on the cd players and going through the UMC-1(no clue on UMC-1's output impedance or voltage, but Im pretty darn sure Emo's processor is going to match up just fine with their own amps.  ). I spent a full week swapping out alot of gear(including 3 of those UPA amps) trying to find a solution or workaround)to isolate and try to eliminate the issue. The only way I was able to do so was to eliminate the amp itself. |
|
|
|
Post by thepcguy on Dec 31, 2010 14:58:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by stuofsci02 on Dec 31, 2010 15:16:25 GMT -5
What is the point of this? |
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,484
|
Post by DYohn on Dec 31, 2010 15:18:27 GMT -5
Honestly I think YOU have no idea what your talking about. A. The threshold for human hearing on average is around 10db at 1khz, with the highest sensitivity being around 3-4khz(about 2db being the threshold). B. That means that if Im playing music downstairs at 80db. There is still about 20-30db playing out of the other 5 speakers upstairs in my setup from about 1khz-10khz. And that is significant. C. Those crosstalk results are not great at all. They are obviously not as good as my Aragon amp, or my Onkyo AVR's, or even the Denon I briefly tried out as well. That's apples and oranges my friend. dBSPL generated by loudspeakers is very different from signal level, and -50dBu crosstalk does NOT mean that if one channel is producing 80dBSPL in room the other channel will produce 30dBSPL! Crosstalk is measured as the relative voltage product of the signal level. Reference line-level signal is +4dBu, and a preamp maximum level might go as high as +20dBu with minimums around -10dBu and typical listening levels between -10 and 0. What crosstalk means is if the channel being driven at +4dBu produces a 0db reference output, then adjacent channels are at least -50dBu below that. |
|
|
|
Post by rwestley on Dec 31, 2010 15:29:11 GMT -5
We may never know the reason why the UPA-7 is discontinued. I am wondering if the supplier made the decision because of increasing costs and other factors. I am also wondering if Emotiva will be using a different supplier for future products.
|
|
|
|
Post by thepcguy on Dec 31, 2010 15:36:58 GMT -5
We may never know the reason why the UPA-7 is discontinued. I am wondering if the supplier made the decision because of increasing costs and other factors. I am also wondering if Emotiva will be using a different supplier for future products. They will just change the name/series ;D |
|
|
|
Post by thepcguy on Dec 31, 2010 15:43:17 GMT -5
What is the point of this? That Amplifiers sound similar. Looks like EMOTIVA is retiring the UPAs and rename it with a new one just to make it 'NEW' series. |
|
|
|
Post by Porscheguy on Dec 31, 2010 15:52:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by sharkman on Dec 31, 2010 15:58:51 GMT -5
Nice looking charts, but they have NOTHING to do with the subject being discussed, music bleeding over into other unused channels of an amp. Perhaps you could read the audioholics review where it's said that the UPA-1 has an Achilles heel, namely crosstalk.
|
|
|
|
Post by Porscheguy on Dec 31, 2010 16:06:08 GMT -5
Nice looking charts, but they have NOTHING to do with the subject being discussed, music bleeding over into other unused channels of an amp. Perhaps you could read the audioholics review where it's said that the UPA-1 has an Achilles heel, namely crosstalk. Actually, "music bleeding over into another channel" has nothing to do with this thread. Its about emo discontinuing most of their line..... |
|
|
|
Post by thepcguy on Dec 31, 2010 16:13:17 GMT -5
Nice looking charts, but they have NOTHING to do with the subject being discussed, music bleeding over into other unused channels of an amp. Perhaps you could read the audioholics review where it's said that the UPA-1 has an Achilles heel, namely crosstalk. Actually, "music bleeding over into another channel" has nothing to do with this thread. Its about emo discontinuing most of their line..... Sorry, but the thread's about the UPA-7 being discontinued not bleeding over or crosstalk.The point being made was that EMOTIVA will replace the UPA-7 with a new line, maybe different looks, but will sound basically 'similar'. The chart showed even different brands sounded similar to the subjects. |
|
|
|
Post by sharkman on Dec 31, 2010 16:14:33 GMT -5
Actually, the last couple of pages have been about crosstalk. FYI, thread titles often have little to do with where topics go, free speech and all.
|
|
RSavage
Emo VIPs
My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Posts: 674
|
Post by RSavage on Dec 31, 2010 16:28:06 GMT -5
dBSPL generated by loudspeakers is very different from signal level, and -50dBu crosstalk does NOT mean that if one channel is producing 80dBSPL in room the other channel will produce 30dBSPL! Oh geez....there you go trying to confuse the issue with facts again. Damn fanboyz  |
|
|
|
Post by phew on Dec 31, 2010 16:30:42 GMT -5
I was looking for a 7-channel amp, and considered the UPA-7. In the end though, I decided on a used IPS-1 for only a little more money. The older, discontinued model just has so many advantages over the UPA:
-Class H (lower power bill and less heat in my rack)
-Multi-mono design (much less crosstalk [120 dB vs 80 dB], also lower power consumption)
-Physical size (3RU vs 4RU)
-Auto-on (per channel in fact)
-More power (150w vs 125w, 1750VA vs. 850VA)
-Proper rack ears (no ugly gaps above and below the unit)
The UPA-7 is a great unit, but it's clear Emotiva has been cutting some corners (in the interest of lowering costs) since their earlier Class H models. I'm glad to see them returning to their roots with the XPR series.
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Dec 31, 2010 16:40:06 GMT -5
Honestly I think YOU have no idea what your talking about. A. The threshold for human hearing on average is around 10db at 1khz, with the highest sensitivity being around 3-4khz(about 2db being the threshold). B. That means that if Im playing music downstairs at 80db. There is still about 20-30db playing out of the other 5 speakers upstairs in my setup from about 1khz-10khz. And that is significant. C. Those crosstalk results are not great at all. They are obviously not as good as my Aragon amp, or my Onkyo AVR's, or even the Denon I briefly tried out as well. That's apples and oranges my friend. dBSPL generated by loudspeakers is very different from signal level, and -50dBu crosstalk does NOT mean that if one channel is producing 80dBSPL in room the other channel will produce 30dBSPL! Crosstalk is measured as the relative voltage product of the signal level. Reference line-level signal is +4dBu, and a preamp maximum level might go as high as +20dBu with minimums around -10dBu and typical listening levels between -10 and 0. What crosstalk means is if the channel being driven at +4dBu produces a 0db reference output, then adjacent channels are at least -50dBu below that. And doesn't input voltage run linear to the output signal? I mean, my Kef speakers were singing with significant volume through the treble. For example my Panasonic PJ's fan fan output sound level is roughly 20-22db. With my Maggies downstairs playing between 80-90db on average(measured)downstairs, the Kef speakers upstairs were playing significantly louder(mostly treble range) than the fan on the PJ. And if I lowered the volume, then the crosstalk volume would lower as well. Raise the volume and the crosstalk volume would raise as well. So IMO the amps channel bleedthrough is affected in a linear fashion. If one channel was playing at 80db roughly, the other channels sound level would be down about 50 or so db roughly which is right in line with the rated test specs. |
|
|
|
Post by Porscheguy on Dec 31, 2010 16:42:59 GMT -5
I was looking for a 7-channel amp, and considered the UPA-7. In the end though, I decided on a used IPS-1 for only a little more money. The older, discontinued model just has so many advantages over the UPA: -Class H (lower power bill and less heat in my rack) -Multi-mono design (much less crosstalk [120 dB vs 80 dB], also lower power consumption) -Physical size (3RU vs 4RU) -Auto-on (per channel in fact) -More power (150w vs 125w, 1750VA vs. 850VA) -Proper rack ears (no ugly gaps above and below the unit) The UPA-7 is a great unit, but it's clear Emotiva has been cutting some corners (in the interest of lowering costs) since their earlier Class H models. I'm glad to see them returning to their roots with the XPR series. Not sure about the heat or electric bill part, All emo amps run no more than warm and cost virtually nothing to run.... The IPS is a great amp, in fact class H will be making a comeback at emo :-) |
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,484
|
Post by DYohn on Dec 31, 2010 16:46:49 GMT -5
dBSPL generated by loudspeakers is very different from signal level, and -50dBu crosstalk does NOT mean that if one channel is producing 80dBSPL in room the other channel will produce 30dBSPL! Oh geez....there you go trying to confuse the issue with facts again. Damn fanboyz It's a bad habit I picked up while defending my dissertation. |
|
|
|
Post by mickeyharlow on Dec 31, 2010 16:48:00 GMT -5
This morning when I checked the products for sale site, the UPA-7 was not listed. It is listed now. Does that mean that there are still some UPA-7's available?
|
|
|
|
Post by buzzomatic on Dec 31, 2010 17:14:31 GMT -5
I think it was mentioned in the latest podcast, but the whole thing was extremely vague and forgettable, so who knows.
My next purchase will be a DAC, so I'm particularly interested to know if there are any plans for a new DAC, something with room EQ perhaps...
|
|
|
|
Post by Topend on Dec 31, 2010 17:24:53 GMT -5
I think it was mentioned in the latest podcast, but the whole thing was extremely vague and forgettable, so who knows. My next purchase will be a DAC, so I'm particularly interested to know if there are any plans for a new DAC, something with room EQ perhaps... The current DAC has only just been released. I would rule out a newer DAC for the next couple of years. Dave. |
|
).
