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Post by thepcguy on Mar 11, 2011 21:22:18 GMT -5
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 11, 2011 21:26:10 GMT -5
The problem is always that people pull out the: impedance, capacitance, inductance, skin effect etc... In reality these things play little into how the cable performs at audible frequency (0-24,000 Hz).
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Post by thepcguy on Mar 11, 2011 21:31:20 GMT -5
The problem is always that people pull out the: impedance, capacitance, inductance, skin effect etc... In reality these things play little into how the cable performs at audible frequency (0-24,000 Hz). Exactly. And if they're really confident cables REALLY make a difference, why on earth no exotic cable company dare to conduct their own BLIND listening tests? |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 11, 2011 22:23:57 GMT -5
I know, I just shot some extras in case someone can get some' out of it! It's free anyway! ;d _______________ * If you do some research of the entire cyber space, and look at the average of discussions that stay 100% on topic, or directly relevant to the first post of a thread; that average is less than 7.36%! ...I would say that my post was about 85% at the very least relevant to the subject at hand; or perhaps even more related to it! The magic word: Relax!  |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 11, 2011 22:27:02 GMT -5
Hey, PCguy and Stu, you guys are real cool, but what did you do recently to awe us? ;D It's true; you asked couple quick questions; other members post some decent stuff, and then you just quickly commented! I'm not asking anyone to come up with stuff, but it's real sweet when they can give their own personal opinion on the subject, and even more... I'm not convinced of anything in life, but can only share my own personal opinion. Some people would perhaps agree, and others up to a certain point, and others not at all. But at least I gave an opinion behind my way of thinking. Meaning I took the time to concentrate, did some research from what I believe in, and spent precious time sharing it. I could have simply decided to post only few quick lines and just be done with it. But no, I decided instead to elaborate a little deeper so that few other people can take the time to think and perhaps add something else that also requires some thinking. That's what good communication is all about; expanding your horizons. And for that I need to talk, and more than just a few lines. Of course I'm not always like that, only occasionally, but I should! I'm on the lookout for great discussions with my fellow members. ...I want to grow up all of us together. ...In wisdom, peace, and knowledge... That's it, simple as that! |
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Post by ronm1 on Mar 12, 2011 9:11:27 GMT -5
The problem is always that people pull out the: impedance, capacitance, inductance, skin effect etc... In reality these things play little into how the cable performs at audible frequency (0-24,000 Hz). Exactly. And if they're really confident cables REALLY make a difference, why on earth no exotic cable company dare to conduct their own BLIND listening tests? As I have stated in another thread, this testing is just another tool in the tool box. I have listened, later extensively, to a # of items I felt were better during a DBT and some I enjoyed and others I detested completely. Anyone IMHO, who uses this only to decide deserves the crap that have accumulated and is an audiophool not phile. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Mar 12, 2011 9:49:24 GMT -5
Let’s bring the context back to the XDA-1. The power draw of the unit is a “huge” 15 watts. Although this isn’t the exact schematic for the XDA-1’s power supply, it is more than typical for this type of unit. Unlike a class A/B amplifier, where the current draw from the wall is variable with the input signal applied, the XDA-1 is pretty much a constant draw. The small unmarked caps before and after the regulators are bypass caps used to remove “noise” both before and after voltage regulation. I have to say I’m in the camp that thinks an esoteric /high priced power cable on the XDA-1 is a waste of money!  |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 14:07:21 GMT -5
The absolute relevance here is the AC power cord used with the XDA-1, and if another AC power cord can improve it's sound. And Bob says YES! ...I already explained why in some of my prior posts; so I just don't want to repeat myself here. Science is only one potion; there are more ingredients to make it even more potentially better... * For example, just look at how electrical current can be affected by the force of nature! Eg.; Friday's Japan earthquake. ...And there is so much more at play here... |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 12, 2011 14:16:08 GMT -5
Bob, I will not try to talk you out of your opinion, as that would be futile. But please understand this: there is a huge difference between what an individual subjectively thinks makes a difference in their specific sound system, and what differences can be objectively measured and shown to exist that might be applicable to all sound systems. When someone tells me they can hear a difference with some cable or power cord tweak, my reaction is good for you. When someone shows me they can measure a difference, my reaction is hey, that might be good for me. As Henry Kloss once said, "Not everything that can be measured can be heard, but everything that can be heard can be measured." My experience working in an audio testing lab confirms this to my satisfaction. But you should absolutely pursue your bliss and enjoy the ride. |
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 15:43:24 GMT -5
David, I'm the same; I would not try to change one's own opinion. We all have our own path in life, and we all came from certain different backgrounds that make us believers in this or that, and non-believers in these or those. _____________________ For me personally, I simply use very good speaker wires (KimberKable 8TC & 4TC), very good interconnects (various models including KimberKable "Hero", AudioQuest, WireWorld, Esoteric Audio USA, UltraLink, Canare, ...), and good gauge AC power cords (mostly manufacturer's stock). And all of those were chosen first for their performance, value and listening sessions. ...And of course from several good readings. My experience with AC power cords and power purifiers is nil. It is only from extensive readings by the best experts. And I always check my home electrical wiring first, as well the AC receptacles, and the secondary street transformer nearest to my home (which right now is within hundred feet). * The area where I live right now gets a good constant dose of 120 Volts+ without any serious fluctuation (I don't need a power regulator). I'm good to go! And the money I spent is well spent on solid cables with good terminations; and I can afford them quite easily. I'm too smart to waste my money on super exotic cables and other things of that sort. The most I spent on cables in the past was $25-a-foot. And that is my own money and my own choice! And if someone spends about $100 or so for a six-foot AC power cord, and that he/she found a sound improvement over the stock power cord, Bravo! ...I'm all in and I believe in it! It's their money, their ears, and $100 ain't much at all. It's not like if it was $1,000! And if some people want to experiment on their own with other AC power cords that cost $200-250, that's also fine with me! Only them with their own money can decide that; and not me or you or anyone else!  * There are just too many variables in one's own system. We are all different and live in different places with different gear. Luv talking like that! ;D |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 12, 2011 16:00:03 GMT -5
Bob, I will not try to talk you out of your opinion, as that would be futile. But please understand this: there is a huge difference between what an individual subjectively thinks makes a difference in their specific sound system, and what differences can be objectively measured and shown to exist that might be applicable to all sound systems. When someone tells me they can hear a difference with some cable or power cord tweak, my reaction is good for you. When someone shows me they can measure a difference, my reaction is hey, that might be good for me. As Henry Kloss once said, "Not everything that can be measured can be heard, but everything that can be heard can be measured." My experience working in an audio testing lab confirms this to my satisfaction. But you should absolutely pursue your bliss and enjoy the ride. Yes, it is what's in our minds that counts, not what is in other people's minds. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 12, 2011 16:03:56 GMT -5
The absolute relevance here is the AC power cord used with the XDA-1, and if another AC power cord can improve it's sound. And Bob says YES! ...I already explained why in some of my prior posts; so I just don't want to repeat myself here. Science is only one potion; there are more ingredients to make it even more potentially better... * For example, just look at how electrical current can be affected by the force of nature! Eg.; Friday's Japan earthquake. ...And there is so much more at play here... Yes, but if electrical current is affected by the force of nature, then that is science. It happens according to some law of physics. Now don't ask me about physics because I hated that subject in school, but what I am saying is that there is some demonstrable, repeatable law at work in the example you cited and the results of that law being put to work are measurable. In the case of audio, something may be measurable but not audible, however. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 16:46:39 GMT -5
Yeah OK, nature is science! ...Unpredictable though, and impossible to measure before it happens. |
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Post by DYohn on Mar 12, 2011 17:06:37 GMT -5
Yeah OK, nature is science! ...Unpredictable though, and impossible to measure before it happens. Ha ha! That made me laugh Bob! Yes, I'd say that darn near everything is immeasurable if it hasn't happened. ;D |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 12, 2011 17:21:07 GMT -5
Hey, PCguy and Stu, you guys are real cool, but what did you do recently to awe us? ;D It's true; you asked couple quick questions; other members post some decent stuff, and then you just quickly commented! I'm not asking anyone to come up with stuff, but it's real sweet when they can give their own personal opinion on the subject, and even more... I'm not convinced of anything in life, but can only share my own personal opinion. Some people would perhaps agree, and others up to a certain point, and others not at all. But at least I gave an opinion behind my way of thinking. Meaning I took the time to concentrate, did some research from what I believe in, and spent precious time sharing it. I could have simply decided to post only few quick lines and just be done with it. But no, I decided instead to elaborate a little deeper so that few other people can take the time to think and perhaps add something else that also requires some thinking. That's what good communication is all about; expanding your horizons. And for that I need to talk, and more than just a few lines. Of course I'm not always like that, only occasionally, but I should! I'm on the lookout for great discussions with my fellow members. ...I want to grow up all of us together. ...In wisdom, peace, and knowledge... That's it, simple as that! I wish that I could spend a lot more time here and discuss things, but I have found it of little purpose to provide a lot of information on the subject because too few people care or understand it anyways. If anybody want to explain what a designer of a good cable is trying to do to improve sound, I would love to discuss these. But there are too many things people believe a good cable does to just break out a discussion. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 17:21:18 GMT -5
Well, with Rickie you have to keep in touch with the right kind of replies! ;D
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 17:32:07 GMT -5
Hey, PCguy and Stu, you guys are real cool, but what did you do recently to awe us? ;D It's true; you asked couple quick questions; other members post some decent stuff, and then you just quickly commented! I'm not asking anyone to come up with stuff, but it's real sweet when they can give their own personal opinion on the subject, and even more... I'm not convinced of anything in life, but can only share my own personal opinion. Some people would perhaps agree, and others up to a certain point, and others not at all. But at least I gave an opinion behind my way of thinking. Meaning I took the time to concentrate, did some research from what I believe in, and spent precious time sharing it. I could have simply decided to post only few quick lines and just be done with it. But no, I decided instead to elaborate a little deeper so that few other people can take the time to think and perhaps add something else that also requires some thinking. That's what good communication is all about; expanding your horizons. And for that I need to talk, and more than just a few lines. Of course I'm not always like that, only occasionally, but I should! I'm on the lookout for great discussions with my fellow members. ...I want to grow up all of us together. ...In wisdom, peace, and knowledge... That's it, simple as that! I wish that I could spend a lot more time here and discuss things, but I have found it of little purpose to provide a lot of information on the subject because too few people care or understand it anyways. If anybody want to explain what a designer of a good cable is trying to do to improve sound, I would love to discuss these. But there are too many things people believe a good cable does to just break out a discussion. I got you 100% Stu. Some days we are more inclined to elaborate a little more than others. And it's true that often the energy that you can put into one subject won't necessarily be reciprocated by others. You have to let people be their own masters of discussions. Sometimes the 'fishing' is good, and other times it's just too good! ...You know, the very few people that keep coming at it? And they'll ask thousands of questions that are all the same! And no matter all the various ways in your answers, they'll never see their own answer to their question. But these people are very few and between, fortunately. We all have our moments of deep passion.  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 12, 2011 17:47:15 GMT -5
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 12, 2011 18:35:19 GMT -5
DYohn,
Nice writeup.. I like Bluejeans. They are right to the point (no bull)..
The best part, is all the design criteria can be fufilled without breaking the bank.
They have indicated that capacitance does make a difference for high-frequency roll-off. That is that the cable effectively becomes a low pass filter. I would suggest, however, that these effects really don't come into play unless the cable is really long. For a standard 3ft or 6ft cable, even if you choose a very high capacitance per foot (lets say 50 pf/ft) the roll-off frequency would still be way above the audible band.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 18:55:24 GMT -5
Excellent link David, and Blue Jeans Cable are good solid cables, so are Canare cables which I do use as some Digital and also Analog interconnects, and with 75 Ohms and 50 Ohms RCA plugs respectively. And they are very inexpensive. |
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