benzo
Minor Hero
Posts: 14
|
Post by benzo on Jan 25, 2013 17:31:45 GMT -5
I thought I was crazy too but I had specified two discrete 20 amp circuits so by George I was going to get a humungous amp! My back is still killing me. 100 pounds, whew.
|
|
|
|
Post by phatfos1 on Jan 25, 2013 17:49:30 GMT -5
ocexam I am very sorry for not reading your OP in more detail. I would not have posted so much about the XPR-5 had I known (READ!) that you didn't care much to hear from XPR-5 owners. I do hope that you get some use out of my comments, though. I think if you look at the common denominators in the R series (esp between the 2 and the 5) that you will find value in comments coming from owners of the 5. The XPR-5 offers different power for stereo v. 5.1. But, alas, I did not pay enough attention to your post and so I'm sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by SticknStones on Jan 25, 2013 18:08:20 GMT -5
Phatfos1, Benzo, Zahov, Tfgmusic, Poodluvr, You are my heros of the week and thanks for taking the time to post your impressions. They are appreciated and I for one hope you become more active on the forum as I think you will have perspectives that matter. Thanks so much!  |
|
|
|
Post by danr on Jan 25, 2013 19:09:51 GMT -5
Look, this is silly. I have posted multiple impressions of my XPR-5 and also have added 2 x XPR-1. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who is posting that the XPR series is no upgrade over the XPA series has either a.)not heard the XPR or b.)has their head in the sand.
It's NOT close, either. I'm not going to sit here and quote dumb audiophile terms or try to sound like some sort of esoteric audiophile. I've been auditioning high end speakers and components for close to 20 years, I know what I'm hearing. And people who are familiar with my system who have sat here with the new XPRs in place...look at me stunned. One of these people posted here, is super familiar with my system, and owns XPA amps himself. He also posted the XPR is much better in all respects.
I am so confident in the XPR series that I purchased a 40% pre/pro card...I am getting the RMC-1 (assuming it doesn't have any major operational issues).
So while people can post their opinion in many threads about how "all amps sound the same", or "you never need that much power", etc...I'll just continue to sit here with a big smile and laugh at the back & forth.
As I told my buddy, "I don't know how Big Dan & Lonnie did this...but they did."
|
|
|
|
Post by SticknStones on Jan 25, 2013 19:50:28 GMT -5
Look, this is silly. I have posted multiple impressions of my XPR-5 and also have added 2 x XPR-1. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who is posting that the XPR series is no upgrade over the XPA series has either a.)not heard the XPR or b.)has their head in the sand. It's NOT close, either. I'm not going to sit here and quote dumb audiophile terms or try to sound like some sort of esoteric audiophile. I've been auditioning high end speakers and components for close to 20 years, I know what I'm hearing. And people who are familiar with my system who have sat here with the new XPRs in place...look at me stunned. One of these people posted here, is super familiar with my system, and owns XPA amps himself. He also posted the XPR is much better in all respects. I am so confident in the XPR series that I purchased a 40% pre/pro card...I am getting the RMC-1 (assuming it doesn't have any major operational issues). So while people can post their opinion in many threads about how "all amps sound the same", or "you never need that much power", etc...I'll just continue to sit here with a big smile and laugh at the back & forth. As I told my buddy, "I don't know how Big Dan & Lonnie did this...but they did." Hi Danr! I just clicked on your name and requested the last 20 posts and I do not see a review you did but would like to read it if you can place a link for tell me where it is.  |
|
|
|
Post by thorcorps on Jan 25, 2013 20:47:42 GMT -5
I would also echo the impressions of others as far as the XPR-1's go for 2-channel music. Mine have been here 10 days and counting and I plan to keep them. My room is very large (Living Room, Kitchen, Dining Room, Foyer, etc) are 100% open to each other and ceiling heights vary between 16' and 10'. I believe a couple of years ago I calculated the volume to be around 11,000 cubic feet (versus the 2,700 cubic feet in my Home Theater room). While my speakers are not particularly inefficient (Swans F2.2F), there is a lot of space to fill with sound. There are hardwood floors throughout and a good number of ATS acoustics panels spread around, but I'm a bit limited as to how far I can go to tame reflection in the space.
In simple terms, I'd say that so far the top end seems very smooth, and I would certainly agree regarding the mid-range detail. My thoughts were that much of the natural sound I am hearing throughout the midrange is a result of what the magazines relate to as "attack", but it could be a result of multiple things (quality of components, overall design, etc).
I continue to make minor tweeks to speaker placement (toe-in, etc), but the sound thus far is excellent and obviously dynamic.
My normal setup is lossless audio (FLAC and WMA Lossless rips) to a squeezebox receiver, to a Cambridge DacMagic (w/ separate PS), to a Vincent SA-93 preamp, then to the XPR-1s. I was previously using a Vincent SP-331 hybrid amp. I also have an RPA-1 that I would swap in occasionally, but I generally preferred the midrange warmth of the Vincent in this room.
I have an XPA-2 and XPA-5 in the HT which I'm very happy with, but if I were starting over, I would certainly go with an XPR-5 based on my results with the XPR-1s for music.
|
|
|
|
Post by danr on Jan 25, 2013 22:01:28 GMT -5
Look, this is silly. I have posted multiple impressions of my XPR-5 and also have added 2 x XPR-1. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who is posting that the XPR series is no upgrade over the XPA series has either a.)not heard the XPR or b.)has their head in the sand. It's NOT close, either. I'm not going to sit here and quote dumb audiophile terms or try to sound like some sort of esoteric audiophile. I've been auditioning high end speakers and components for close to 20 years, I know what I'm hearing. And people who are familiar with my system who have sat here with the new XPRs in place...look at me stunned. One of these people posted here, is super familiar with my system, and owns XPA amps himself. He also posted the XPR is much better in all respects. I am so confident in the XPR series that I purchased a 40% pre/pro card...I am getting the RMC-1 (assuming it doesn't have any major operational issues). So while people can post their opinion in many threads about how "all amps sound the same", or "you never need that much power", etc...I'll just continue to sit here with a big smile and laugh at the back & forth. As I told my buddy, "I don't know how Big Dan & Lonnie did this...but they did." Hi Danr! I just clicked on your name and requested the last 20 posts and I do not see a review you did but would like to read it if you can place a link for tell me where it is. I said "impressions", not review.  And you can go back further than 20 posts, right? Not sure why it's the problem of XPR owners that people can't find impressions/comments/reviews. Though I will say that Emo should put a dedicated section in for the Reference series. |
|
|
|
Post by ocezam on Jan 26, 2013 9:39:01 GMT -5
can you really get a xpa-1 out of gas? this happens before or after your brains pop out ? because the sound pressure? i got the xpa-2 and i have never come close to the max output sorry but i find it hard to believe it I own an XPA-2. I come close to clipping with it fairly often. It doesn't clip because I watch it and don't let it. I owned a Soundcraftsman A5002 for 25 years. It is rated almost identically to the XPA-2. It even out performs it's published specs as the XPA-2 does. I used to clip it all the time. I wasn't as cautious back then. I have no problem believing a guy can fairly easily clip an XPA-1, or even an XPR-1, depending on circumstances, ie room/equipment/music choice. |
|
|
|
Post by ocezam on Jan 26, 2013 10:11:45 GMT -5
ocexam I I would not have posted so much about the XPR-5 had I known (READ!) that you didn't care much to hear from XPR-5 owners. I do hope that you get some use out of my comments, though. It's not that I'm biased against multichannel, I simply think it is inherently easier to discern minute differences in SQ between components while listening to stereo versus multi channel. Hence my initial request. I DO appreciate your comments and find value in them, thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 26, 2013 10:30:25 GMT -5
can you really get a xpa-1 out of gas? this happens before or after your brains pop out ? because the sound pressure? i got the xpa-2 and i have never come close to the max output sorry but i find it hard to believe it I own an XPA-2. I come close to clipping with it fairly often. It doesn't clip because I watch it and don't let it. I owned a Soundcraftsman A5002 for 25 years. It is rated almost identically to the XPA-2. It even out performs it's published specs as the XPA-2 does. I used to clip it all the time. I wasn't as cautious back then. I have no problem believing a guy can fairly easily clip an XPA-1, or even an XPR-1, depending on circumstances, ie room/equipment/music choice. Thanks! I've owned sport cars in the past. I've normally driven the speed limit.-- Not to say that I haven't ever tried to see what it could do.... Same goes for my XPA-1s. I ran the pair to momentary clipping then immediately backed off. I attempted this with the XPR-1s and just couldn't do it. Maybe I would be willing to do it-- with somebody else's speakers, of course.  |
|
|
|
Post by ocezam on Jan 26, 2013 11:36:24 GMT -5
The amp runs a bit warm which might suggest some class a biasing. I've wondered about this also when I've read about XPR's running warmer than XPA's. Yes they output more power, but they also run class H power supply which is said to be more efficient than AB. I wish Emotiva would say if they run in class A for any appreciable amount of time. ... |
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Jan 26, 2013 11:58:28 GMT -5
I own an XPA-2. I come close to clipping with it fairly often. It doesn't clip because I watch it and don't let it. I owned a Soundcraftsman A5002 for 25 years. It is rated almost identically to the XPA-2. It even out performs it's published specs as the XPA-2 does. I used to clip it all the time. I wasn't as cautious back then. I have no problem believing a guy can fairly easily clip an XPA-1, or even an XPR-1, depending on circumstances, ie room/equipment/music choice. Thanks! I've owned sport cars in the past. I've normally driven the speed limit.-- Not to say that I haven't ever tried to see what it could do.... Same goes for my XPA-1s. I ran the pair to momentary clipping then immediately backed off. I attempted this with the XPR-1s and just couldn't do it. Maybe I would be willing to do it-- with somebody else's speakers, of course. The specs for the XPA-1 show 500 watts into 8 ohms and 1,000 watts into 4 ohms. The specs for the XPR-1 show 1,000 watts into 8 ohms and 1,750 watts into 4 ohms (so I notice that the 4 ohm power rating is double the 8 ohm for the XPA-1 but less than double for the XPR-1). If doubling the watts results in a 3 db increase in volume, then I am trying to understand how an XPA-1 could be driven to clipping so much easier than an XPR-1 could, if the decibel difference is only 3 db based on doubling the wattage? Or are there other factors involved here that I am not taking into account, and if so, what would be those other factors? |
|
|
|
Post by roadrunner on Jan 26, 2013 13:50:10 GMT -5
Monkumonku
You are only looking at the continuous RMS output, which completely ignores the fact that music is transient responses of very short duration. The headroom of short bursts is far more complex a figure to try calculating.
The XPR-1's power supply has 2.5 kVA toroidal power transformer and a 240,000 uF low ESR capacitor bank. The XPA-1 only has 1.2 kVA transformer and a 120,000 uF capacitor bank.
|
|
|
|
Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 26, 2013 14:59:40 GMT -5
My speakers are rated at 300 watts max although I don't have a problem running clean power into them past 300w.
I have respect for the XPA-1.-- I even have more for the XPR-1.
I'm using my sense of sight and hearing. I watch the amp LEDs for just one momentary flicker of red while listening very carefully to my speakers.
I've achieved a momentary flicker of red LED and then immediately backed off the volume when using the XPA-1s.
I've tried this with the XPR-1s too. I did not feel comfortable going any further into blue LEDs to the point of actually reaching a momentary red LED flicker.
|
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Jan 26, 2013 16:01:04 GMT -5
Monkumonku You are only looking at the continuous RMS output, which completely ignores the fact that music is transient responses of very short duration. The headroom of short bursts is far more complex a figure to try calculating. The XPR-1's power supply has 2.5 kVA toroidal power transformer and a 240,000 uF low ESR capacitor bank. The XPA-1 only has 1.2 kVA transformer and a 120,000 uF capacitor bank. Thanks, I see what you mean. So the larger cabinet of the XPR series actually has something in it and isn't just empty space, then. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Jan 26, 2013 16:09:59 GMT -5
Monkumonku You are only looking at the continuous RMS output, which completely ignores the fact that music is transient responses of very short duration. The headroom of short bursts is far more complex a figure to try calculating. The XPR-1's power supply has 2.5 kVA toroidal power transformer and a 240,000 uF low ESR capacitor bank. The XPA-1 only has 1.2 kVA transformer and a 120,000 uF capacitor bank. What it all comes down to, is how those LEDs are calibrated. At what power does the red one illuminate. Is it 3db higher than the XPA-1 or something different. They don't actually detect clipping and then illuminate. So the amp could have all the capacitance in the world and the largest transformer ever produced and that in itself would not change when the LED comes on. Another factor that might be involved is the lower gain than the XPA-1 which makes one turn the volume higher for the same output. Having to go noticeably further with the control may have a psychological effect. |
|
|
|
Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 27, 2013 14:19:46 GMT -5
As as an owner of the XPA-1s and XPR-1s, I'm very well aware of the gain difference between these amps, 32 db versus the 29 db.-- Yep, it sure all looks good on paper....
For me, there is no psychological maladjustment here when using more power -- It's called a choice, my choice on what I personally feel comfortable with.
Thanks to Emotiva, 1000w monoblocks are now more affordable and attainable by many.
I've owned my current 300w max speakers for quite some time. I'm not so sure that the speaker designer who designed my speakers years ago expected 1000w monoblocks to be more affordable in the future, where we are today.
So, I continue to use the XPR-1s with my speakers and do so with caution.
The XPR-1s are not my first set of monoblocks, so this is NOT my first rodeo.-- I bought a pair of Adcom GFA-565 monoblocks back in 1994.
The Adcoms were 300w/8, 450w/4 and 850w/2 as in ohms.
The XPR-1s are conservatively rated as 1000/8 & 1750/4.
The Adcom GFA-565 owners manual had a written disclaimer:
"This amplifier is like a high performance sports car. Don't take it for a spin until you learn how to drive it safely."
|
|
Ref
Minor Hero
A baseline of Excellence
Posts: 74
|
Post by Ref on Feb 3, 2013 16:53:06 GMT -5
Thanks for you great reviews/impressions tgfmusic, Phatfos1, benzo, Poodluvr, I'm glad you guys took the time to post, it makes my future decisions a lot easier for sure. Web reviews are nice, but user ones tell the whole story.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocezam on Feb 3, 2013 17:09:07 GMT -5
Thanks for you great reviews/impressions tgfmusic, Phatfos1, benzo, Poodluvr, I'm glad you guys took the time to post, it makes my future decisions a lot easier for sure. Web reviews are nice, but user ones tell the whole story. Yes, and these reviews would be even more helpful if Emotiva would add XPR sections to the Amplifiers Reviews forum. Might as well add sections for the XPA-1L, XPA-100, XPA-200 too. Am I missing any? ... |
|
|
|
Post by ryan08 on Feb 5, 2013 16:18:39 GMT -5
poodleluvr,
What kind of speakers do you have? Do you know the sensitivity ? Just trying to get a feel for clipping the XPA-1s.
|
|
