Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Feb 7, 2013 21:40:04 GMT -5
Yah, Zee greatest amps EVAR!!! Yah, I Did hear a trace of harshness at 534Hz and 769Hz? Please pass the grey poupon on your way out...thanks.  |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Feb 7, 2013 23:13:53 GMT -5
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tz
Minor Hero
Posts: 14
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Post by tz on Feb 8, 2013 9:32:27 GMT -5
Arturz, what do you mean saying how? We were listening to a set of a well known music tracks, some rock, some jazz, some etno, some classics, some pure instrumental. The listening was done after we preliminary matched the sound pressure levels (SPL) using recorded noise file samples (pink and white noise, then some further calibration using 1KHz, 5Khz and 10Khz sine tones). We matched the levels within 0.5db interval using a calibrated SPL meter. The equipment used was MSB Universal Media Transport --> USB Platinum 4 DAC --> Audio research Reference 10 preamp --> Power amp --> Magico Q7. Interconnects and speaker cables used were top line Audioquests, cannot exactly tell the models, but can check if you insist. Even the power cables were (including the 20Amp ones used for XPR-1s) of very high quality (some Cubala Sosna I think).
We were four people and spent about 5 hours in listening. Tried the amps at different levels - 60db SPL average music level, then around 75db, then went to some heavy pressure above 90db.
The final opinions were split between "incomparable" expressed by two people and "midrange harsh/grainy" by the other two. I was in the second group being more favourable to the XPR-1s. Of course there are more differences in depth and instrument positioning, but I wouldn't go too far in explanations.
At home my system has the same source and DAC, but my preamp is Halcro DM-10 and speakers are Focal Grande Utopia EM. My cables are different as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 12:55:36 GMT -5
Fellas, Zahov tested the XPR against some *seriously* good gear. Do not for a moment think that the XPR revealed a harshness in the recording that the others obscured. It's okay to love your Emo gear, I am beginning to like my XPA-5. But I would not for a moment deign to compare it favorably against the gear that Zahov used...
-RW-
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Post by Elias on Nov 28, 2013 1:53:23 GMT -5
Arturz, what do you mean saying how? We were listening to a set of a well known music tracks, some rock, some jazz, some etno, some classics, some pure instrumental. The listening was done after we preliminary matched the sound pressure levels (SPL) using recorded noise file samples (pink and white noise, then some further calibration using 1KHz, 5Khz and 10Khz sine tones). We matched the levels within 0.5db interval using a calibrated SPL meter. The equipment used was MSB Universal Media Transport --> USB Platinum 4 DAC --> Audio research Reference 10 preamp --> Power amp --> Magico Q7. Interconnects and speaker cables used were top line Audioquests, cannot exactly tell the models, but can check if you insist. Even the power cables were (including the 20Amp ones used for XPR-1s) of very high quality (some Cubala Sosna I think). We were four people and spent about 5 hours in listening. Tried the amps at different levels - 60db SPL average music level, then around 75db, then went to some heavy pressure above 90db. The final opinions were split between "incomparable" expressed by two people and "midrange harsh/grainy" by the other two. I was in the second group being more favourable to the XPR-1s. Of course there are more differences in depth and instrument positioning, but I wouldn't go too far in explanations. At home my system has the same source and DAC, but my preamp is Halcro DM-10 and speakers are Focal Grande Utopia EM. My cables are different as well. Hi, I have as well a Focal Grande Utopia EM speakers, but I have never compared them with Magico Q7 (I do not have any change for a face to face comparison). Do you know the main differences in terms of naturalness, accuracy, tonal color, etc between both speakers? |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 28, 2013 11:09:16 GMT -5
Fellas, Zahov tested the XPR against some *seriously* good gear. Do not for a moment think that the XPR revealed a harshness in the recording that the others obscured. It's okay to love your Emo gear, I am beginning to like my XPA-5. But I would not for a moment deign to compare it favorably against the gear that Zahov used... -RW- I too wouldn't expect the XPR series to compete favorably. Those amps (and DACS) are sort of in the really high end. The speakers he has are just as much. WThanks for the comparison. I do appreciate the time you took as well as level matching etc. I guess that Dan d'agostino amp must be quite amazing to look at. Also...thanks for giving Emotiva a try! I don't think this paints Emo in a bad light at all when you put it in context fwiw. Zahov- if at all possible can you show us some pics of your setup? I would love to see some of those beauties in one place |
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Post by New guy on Dec 19, 2013 19:49:48 GMT -5
I would like to see photos of the comparison all in one picture. =D love to see those amps together.
Can you post that here?
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Post by novisnick on Dec 19, 2013 20:53:15 GMT -5
My amps remain uninstalled...... Soon..... Work comes first!! Oh the pain and anticipation!!!! All work and no play Blah, Blah Blah,,,,,,,,,have fun setting it up. Nick |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 19, 2013 21:07:33 GMT -5
Thanks for your review. I agree that the XPA-1s and the XPR-1s sound different. For those who already own or are contemplating on purchasing XPA-1s, you still will have first class SQ IMO. The XPA-1s do sound more forward in their presentation while the XPR-1s sound warmer IMO. At the volume where the XPA-1s run out of gas, the XPR-1s still have more get up and go. Another factor to consider is the XPA-1s have the 32 DB of gain while the XPR-1s have 29 DB of gain. For me, my XSP-1 preamp enters into positive territory with the volume knob display with the XPR-1s. I can clip my XPA-1s with one red LED lit, than I immediately back off. I have not tried that with the XPR-1s. I don't think I want to since I fear I will be picking up drivers or what is left of them on the opposite side of the room! BTW, I've had my home trial with XPR-1s for 15 days now. Still listening.... Home trial,,,,,,sorry,,,I'm still laughing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Like you would now part with them. Ive had mine since September and when I get home from work, I power up the XPR-1s , pet the dog, and kiss the Mrs. in that order,,,,,,,He,,,,,,He,,,,,,Im still giggling,,,,,trial,,,,,He,,,,,He,,,,, St. Nick comes soon |
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 21, 2013 9:15:48 GMT -5
My amps remain uninstalled...... Soon..... Work comes first!! Oh the pain and anticipation!!!! All work and no play Blah, Blah Blah,,,,,,,,,have fun setting it up. Nick Well that was back in January. They have been performing flawlessly since Feb.. |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 21, 2013 10:43:19 GMT -5
Oh the pain and anticipation!!!! All work and no play Blah, Blah Blah,,,,,,,,,have fun setting it up. Nick Well that was back in January. They have been performing flawlessly since Feb.. Oooppppsss, details, details. yep missed that didn't I !!!! Da on me.! Needless to say, you know there " GREAT " Nick |
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tz
Minor Hero
Posts: 14
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Post by tz on Jan 10, 2014 8:27:49 GMT -5
I would like to see photos of the comparison all in one picture. =D love to see those amps together. Can you post that here? New guy, sorry I didn't reply earlier, but just came back to the forum. Here is a picture of my current set-up. I recently purchased and installed XPA-1 Gen.2 amps. They work together with XPR-1s now. I should say that these amps are incredibly good. As you can see in the pic below Halcro DM-58 amps and DM-10 pre-amp are out of the chain now. I use Emotiva XSP-1 preamp and XPA-1 + XPR-1 for amplification. XPR-1s are driving the sub-bass, XPA-1s take care for the base, mids and highs (Grande Utopia EM is a 4-way speaker). Right now the source is Oppo-105, but I will bring back my MSB Diamond DAC + Universal Media Transport soon. The latter were sent to a friend for shootout against some other DAC monsters. The cables are nothing special - just reasonably good quality cables (I removed my Transparent Reference XL interconnects and speaker cables, because I don't think they improve the sound, no esoteric cables for me anymore, if somebody is interested - I am selling them). What should I say? More or less I was never fully satisfied with XPR-1s - excellent dynamic, huge power reserve, but I always got the impression that some fine details were somehow missing from the picture. Maybe just psychological, but this is how I felt. Could be some effect of the combination of the amps and the beryllium twitters of the Grande Utopias. Now when XPA-1s Gen.2 came, I put them in their Class A mode and the results were stunning. Everything is silky smooth, detailed and very refined. I am very satisfied. To liberate the XPA-1s of the burden of the base and win more dynamic I put the XPR-1s to drive the sub-bass. Amazing!!! The brilliant thing is that I used the XSP-1 crossovers to adjust the bandwidth of the amps (used calibration microphone and analytical software for that, can give more details if you want). The results are very impressive. Can easily say - hard to beat. BRAVO Emotiva, Lonie, all the engineers, Dan and the others - excellent service, excellent products. There is a small complain from XPR-1s - the cases of these beasts click and crack when they start to warm up and then cool down. Apparently the thermal fluctuations of the cases are the reason. I will investigate further where the cracking noise is coming from and will cure it, but Emotiva should take a note and fix the cases. Regards, Theo Attachments:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 8:58:39 GMT -5
Wooeee! - that's some system. ( Halcros looking sad and silent off to the side...)  I'm glad you've finally nailed the sound you've been seeking, fantastic. Is there much soft furnishing to dampen brightness in the room? From the little that the photo gives, including the reflection from the screen there seems to be a lot of reflective surfaces - just curious? |
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Post by mg on Jan 10, 2014 10:30:10 GMT -5
I would like to see photos of the comparison all in one picture. =D love to see those amps together. Can you post that here? New guy, sorry I didn't reply earlier, but just came back to the forum. Here is a picture of my current set-up. I recently purchased and installed XPA-1 Gen.2 amps. They work together with XPR-1s now. I should say that these amps are incredibly good. As you can see in the pic below Halcro DM-58 amps and DM-10 pre-amp are out of the chain now. I use Emotiva XSP-1 preamp and XPA-1 + XPR-1 for amplification. XPR-1s are driving the sub-bass, XPA-1s take care for the base, mids and highs (Grande Utopia EM is a 4-way speaker). Right now the source is Oppo-105, but I will bring back my MSB Diamond DAC + Universal Media Transport soon. The latter were sent to a friend for shootout against some other DAC monsters. The cables are nothing special - just reasonably good quality cables (I removed my Transparent Reference XL interconnects and speaker cables, because I don't think they improve the sound, no esoteric cables for me anymore, if somebody is interested - I am selling them). What should I say? More or less I was never fully satisfied with XPR-1s - excellent dynamic, huge power reserve, but I always got the impression that some fine details were somehow missing from the picture. Maybe just psychological, but this is how I felt. Could be some effect of the combination of the amps and the beryllium twitters of the Grande Utopias. Now when XPA-1s Gen.2 came, I put them in their Class A mode and the results were stunning. Everything is silky smooth, detailed and very refined. I am very satisfied. To liberate the XPA-1s of the burden of the base and win more dynamic I put the XPR-1s to drive the sub-bass. Amazing!!! The brilliant thing is that I used the XSP-1 crossovers to adjust the bandwidth of the amps (used calibration microphone and analytical software for that, can give more details if you want). The results are very impressive. Can easily say - hard to beat. BRAVO Emotiva, Lonie, all the engineers, Dan and the others - excellent service, excellent products. There is a small complain from XPR-1s - the cases of these beasts click and crack when they start to warm up and then cool down. Apparently the thermal fluctuations of the cases are the reason. I will investigate further where the cracking noise is coming from and will cure it, but Emotiva should take a note and fix the cases. Regards, Theo What a set up. A thing if beauty. Congrats!! |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Jan 10, 2014 13:08:21 GMT -5
That is a sweet setup. And it doesn't matter to me either way since I won't be able to get either the Grand Utopia or the Halcro etc...but in your previous thread you said the XPR-1 has harsh voices but now you said it lacks detail.
Do they both hold true? It seems like they are conflicting descriptions. And I know you are talking minute differences that don't matter to most people who don't have $180k speakers but I was just curious.
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Post by bub on Jan 10, 2014 17:39:51 GMT -5
Beautiful set up.. ...Really over the top. Fantastic.. My words don't do it justice.. Love it....
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tz
Minor Hero
Posts: 14
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Post by tz on Jan 11, 2014 0:48:14 GMT -5
Note: just changed my display name to "tz" Thanks guys, let me answer the questions: @blooloo - The room is about 50sq.m. (540sq.feet) and is a combination of two rectangular rooms. The window reflected on the tv is about 9 meters (29 feet) away from the speakers. There is no special acoustic treatment, but there is a big sofa and soft furniture and paintings on the walls. The sound in the room is decent, but can be much improved for sure. The nastiest thing is a resonance at 35Hz which boosts the bass at this frequency by more than 20db. Tried different ways to eliminate it (filtering, equalising, some bass trapping at the corners), but never went too far. I will take more serious care soon. Lsc - I was probably not very exact in the "descriptive" terminology, but these terms are anyway subjective and people understand different things when they use them. When I said "harsh" I meant something like "hoarse" compared to the sound of the Halcros, D'Agustino Momentum and MSB amps (MSBs are pure class A, 200W). For example it was most noticeable in the song "Gul" from Goran Bregovich's album "Songbook" where the female voice sounded "hoarser" or "raspier" compared to the other amps. Same with Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and some other vocals. With XPR-1s I kind of feel like they ignore some very small changes in the signal which otherwise would make their sound more refined (that is what I meant saying "small details are missing from the picture"). In return you get the huge dynamic range of XPR-1s... Wow, what a vague explanation, sorry, can't make it better. When I plugged the new XPA-1s and my wife came back home later she didn't notice the new boxes, but made a remark of the very good sound and asked me have I done something. I invited some friends to listen and they were impressed too. I will make a check how different XPA-1s sound when switched to class A/B and post here. :-) |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 11, 2014 1:24:22 GMT -5
What was wrong with the Halcros?
Cheers
Gary
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Post by mg on Jan 11, 2014 2:30:15 GMT -5
What was wrong with the Halcros? Cheers Gary Was about to ask the same question. I do recall in one the Home Theater Magazine articles where people show their home theaters the installer raving about the Halcros. The set up consisted of a huge pair of Focal Grand and according to him the Halcros were the perfect match. The article us about 2 years old. I recall reading it and only dreaming of having such a set up. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 11, 2014 2:48:17 GMT -5
Note: just changed my display name to "tz" Thanks guys, let me answer the questions: @blooloo - The room is about 50sq.m. (540sq.feet) and is a combination of two rectangular rooms. The window reflected on the tv is about 9 meters (29 feet) away from the speakers. There is no special acoustic treatment, but there is a big sofa and soft furniture and paintings on the walls. The sound in the room is decent, but can be much improved for sure. The nastiest thing is a resonance at 35Hz which boosts the bass at this frequency by more than 20db. Tried different ways to eliminate it (filtering, equalising, some bass trapping at the corners), but never went too far. I will take more serious care soon. Lsc - I was probably not very exact in the "descriptive" terminology, but these terms are anyway subjective and people understand different things when they use them. When I said "harsh" I meant something like "hoarse" compared to the sound of the Halcros, D'Agustino Momentum and MSB amps (MSBs are pure class A, 200W). For example it was most noticeable in the song "Gul" from Goran Bregovich's album "Songbook" where the female voice sounded "hoarser" or "raspier" compared to the other amps. Same with Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and some other vocals. With XPR-1s I kind of feel like they ignore some very small changes in the signal which otherwise would make their sound more refined (that is what I meant saying "small details are missing from the picture"). In return you get the huge dynamic range of XPR-1s... Wow, what a vague explanation, sorry, can't make it better. When I plugged the new XPA-1s and my wife came back home later she didn't notice the new boxes, but made a remark of the very good sound and asked me have I done something. I invited some friends to listen and they were impressed too. I will make a check how different XPA-1s sound when switched to class A/B and post here. :-) Hi TZ. Your system setup is really nice. Focal big boys. I would be drooling all over them. I'm really surprised there's no acoustic/room treatments. I found that to be very beneficial to me (and the best value for money). It cleared up a significant level of muddiness. |
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