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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 23:50:15 GMT -5
Thanks, I see what you mean. So the larger cabinet of the XPR series actually has something in it and isn't just empty space, then. ;D Hai! That is correct, esteemed Samurai Warrior, unlike your head. |
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harri009
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Post by harri009 on Feb 6, 2013 0:00:53 GMT -5
The amp runs a bit warm which might suggest some class a biasing. I've wondered about this also when I've read about XPR's running warmer than XPA's. Yes they output more power, but they also run class H power supply which is said to be more efficient than AB. I wish Emotiva would say if they run in class A for any appreciable amount of time. ... Here is the quote from Vincent Chen of Emotiva on the question of how many Class A watts the XPR-1 puts out. "the XPR-1 is pure Class A/B output from watt 1. There is no rating in Class A." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2013 0:07:16 GMT -5
.....The XPR-1s are not my first set of monoblocks, so this is NOT my first rodeo.--.....  (That was funny Wilbur!) |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 6, 2013 0:12:04 GMT -5
Thanks, I see what you mean. So the larger cabinet of the XPR series actually has something in it and isn't just empty space, then. ;D Hai! That is correct, esteemed Samurai Warrior, unlike your head. Well... I'm speechless. I guess because my head is empty. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2013 1:12:30 GMT -5
.... Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who is posting that the XPR series is no upgrade over the XPA series has either a.)not heard the XPR or b. has their head in the sand. Dan, you mean like this?  (Lounge members at a recent beach meeting ---- ;D ;D ;D) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2013 1:36:54 GMT -5
To get serious for a moment (but not for too long), this is a great thread!
It is really nice to see so many folks come out and give detailed impressions/reviews on their new Emp amps. Whether we agree with everything they say is not important. Their personal feedback is. Plus many folks out there on the fence might be able to identify with a specific comment or more in their review and that might help to make a buying decision.
Kudos to tgfmusic, poodleluvr, phatfos1, benzo, zahov, danr, thorcorps
;D ;D ;D
PS: Monkumonku is already salivating and trying to figure out how he can sneak an XPR amp into the house without Mrs. Monku knowing.
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Post by audiohead on Feb 6, 2013 6:45:47 GMT -5
As as an owner of the XPA-1s and XPR-1s, I'm very well aware of the gain difference between these amps, 32 db versus the 29 db.-- Yep, it sure all looks good on paper.... For me, there is no psychological maladjustment here when using more power -- It's called a choice, my choice on what I personally feel comfortable with. Thanks to Emotiva, 1000w monoblocks are now more affordable and attainable by many. I've owned my current 300w max speakers for quite some time. I'm not so sure that the speaker designer who designed my speakers years ago expected 1000w monoblocks to be more affordable in the future, where we are today. So, I continue to use the XPR-1s with my speakers and do so with caution. The XPR-1s are not my first set of monoblocks, so this is NOT my first rodeo.-- I bought a pair of Adcom GFA-565 monoblocks back in 1994. The Adcoms were 300w/8, 450w/4 and 850w/2 as in ohms. The XPR-1s are conservatively rated as 1000/8 & 1750/4. The Adcom GFA-565 owners manual had a written disclaimer: "This amplifier is like a high performance sports car. Don't take it for a spin until you learn how to drive it safely." +1..Nice.  |
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Post by audiohead on Feb 6, 2013 6:51:07 GMT -5
To get serious for a moment (but not for too long), this is a great thread! It is really nice to see so many folks come out and give detailed impressions/reviews on their new Emp amps. Whether we agree with everything they say is not important. Their personal feedback is. Plus many folks out there on the fence might be able to identify with a specific comment or more in their review and that might help to make a buying decision. Kudos to tgfmusic, poodleluvr, phatfos1, benzo, zahov, danr, thorcorps ;D ;D ;D PS: Monkumonku is already salivating and trying to figure out how he can sneak an XPR amp into the house without Mrs. Monku knowing. Same here Chuck,now if I can get them pass my door the only way my wife would notice two XPR-1's is they would have too set next too my audiorack after all she is the one who cleans the floors I can she her face now with that look on it  looking back I me sitting down some music on and me looking back at her with this on my face.. ;D |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 6, 2013 10:29:43 GMT -5
To get serious for a moment (but not for too long), this is a great thread! It is really nice to see so many folks come out and give detailed impressions/reviews on their new Emp amps. Whether we agree with everything they say is not important. Their personal feedback is. Plus many folks out there on the fence might be able to identify with a specific comment or more in their review and that might help to make a buying decision. Kudos to tgfmusic, poodleluvr, phatfos1, benzo, zahov, danr, thorcorps ;D ;D ;D PS: Monkumonku is already salivating and trying to figure out how he can sneak an XPR amp into the house without Mrs. Monku knowing. Not "an XPR amp" but "XPR amps" - there has to be two when they are monoblocks, you know. ;D Well I tell you, even if I could sneak those in, my being hospitalized with a thrown out back and hernia might make me confess what caused them to happen.  |
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tz
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Post by tz on Feb 6, 2013 11:13:49 GMT -5
Every class A/B amp has some power in pure class A. The point is that this power could be very low, and then in practice the amp will work only in class A/B even at low levels. That means higher crossover distortions at low levels and as a consequence lower sound quality. I should say here that I compared my XPR-1 amps to KRELL EVO-402E, Devialet and Dan D'agostino Momentum monoblocks. The speakers were Magico Q-7. All of the above amps outperformed XPR-1. The difference is evident (but the price difference is evident as well). The voices coming out of XPR-1 is harsh in comparison. At home where I compare it to Halcro DM-58, running Focal Grande Utopia EM I have the same observations. Considering the price of XPR-1 it is a very good amp, but put next to the top performers it loses the competition. Honestly "XPR-1 – Nothing less than the most" slogan doesn't hold. What I feel is the amp has a great potential, but it is somehow waiting to be unlocked. Maybe the bias should be higher? BTW, very soon I will put my amps on test with AP 2722 to see some real world measurements of the amp. Lets see. XPR-1 is good, and possibly can be even better.
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Post by Jim on Feb 6, 2013 13:29:53 GMT -5
Every class A/B amp has some power in pure class A. The point is that this power could be very low, and then in practice the amp will work only in class A/B even at low levels. That means higher crossover distortions at low levels and as a consequence lower sound quality. I should say here that I compared my XPR-1 amps to KRELL EVO-402E, Devialet and Dan D'agostino Momentum monoblocks. The speakers were Magico Q-7. All of the above amps outperformed XPR-1. The difference is evident (but the price difference is evident as well). The voices coming out of XPR-1 is harsh in comparison. At home where I compare it to Halcro DM-58, running Focal Grande Utopia EM I have the same observations. Considering the price of XPR-1 it is a very good amp, but put next to the top performers it loses the competition. Honestly "XPR-1 – Nothing less than the most" slogan doesn't hold. What I feel is the amp has a great potential, but it is somehow waiting to be unlocked. Maybe the bias should be higher? BTW, very soon I will put my amps on test with AP 2722 to see some real world measurements of the amp. Lets see. XPR-1 is good, and possibly can be even better. It would be interesting what results you'd get with a double blind test in your own home. I don't consider the word 'harsh' a very useful term. It's just a very poor adjective saying very little about the actual result. I hear the word harsh used most often by reviewers who are making a comparison to other amps that cost 5x more. |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Feb 6, 2013 13:40:06 GMT -5
I spoke on the phone yesterday with an out-of-town audio b & m dealer concerning speakers that I cannot get in my local area.
Well, when it came to electronics, specifically amplifiers, he asked what I had. I told him Emotiva XPR-1s.-- He then replied in a rather oblivious fashion that he NEVER heard of that brand....
I really find that hard to believe....
Later in the conversation, he started to complain or whine about audio gear made in China.
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Post by ocezam on Feb 6, 2013 13:50:18 GMT -5
I've only read 3rd party hearsay about XPA Class A operation. Somewhere recently someone posted that Lonnie "said" the XPA-1 operated to about 10 watts in Class A and the others "about a watt". The only caveat to this being the rumored upcoming release of the XPA-1L which operates to 30 watts Class A before switching to Class AB.
Taking this as fact, I find it odd that the XPR-1 would only operate at Class A for a watt or two. Would this have something to do with the Class H power structure?
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Post by danr on Feb 6, 2013 13:50:20 GMT -5
Every class A/B amp has some power in pure class A. The point is that this power could be very low, and then in practice the amp will work only in class A/B even at low levels. That means higher crossover distortions at low levels and as a consequence lower sound quality. I should say here that I compared my XPR-1 amps to KRELL EVO-402E, Devialet and Dan D'agostino Momentum monoblocks. The speakers were Magico Q-7. All of the above amps outperformed XPR-1. The difference is evident (but the price difference is evident as well). The voices coming out of XPR-1 is harsh in comparison. At home where I compare it to Halcro DM-58, running Focal Grande Utopia EM I have the same observations. Considering the price of XPR-1 it is a very good amp, but put next to the top performers it loses the competition. Honestly "XPR-1 – Nothing less than the most" slogan doesn't hold. What I feel is the amp has a great potential, but it is somehow waiting to be unlocked. Maybe the bias should be higher? BTW, very soon I will put my amps on test with AP 2722 to see some real world measurements of the amp. Lets see. XPR-1 is good, and possibly can be even better. Wow, I have to admit I am shocked by this. "Harsh" is probably the last word I would use with regards to how my XPR-5 and XPR-1s sound. If the XPR-1 is harsh, then the XPA series must be downright unlistenable to you. But to each his own, and you are entitled to your opinion. |
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Post by ocezam on Feb 6, 2013 13:52:54 GMT -5
I spoke on the phone yesterday with an out-of-town audio b & m dealer concerning speakers that I cannot get in my local area. Well, when it came to electronics, specifically amplifiers, he asked what I had. I told him Emotiva XPR-1s.-- He then replied in a rather oblivious fashion that he NEVER heard of that brand.... I really find that hard to believe.... Later in the conversation, he started to complain or whine about audio gear made in China. I won't do business with people like that. |
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tz
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Post by tz on Feb 6, 2013 15:07:59 GMT -5
Guys, please do not feel offended. The amps I am comparing XPR-1 sell from US$ 25,000 (Halcro and Krell) to US$ 55, 000 for D'agustino Momentum. This is 10 to 22 times more then a pair of XPR-1s. The only exception is the Devialet which is about US$ 12,500, but is completely integrated digital machine. Still it has its first 5 watts in class A then moves to class D. jim At home I would easily distinguish between Halcro DM-58 and XPR-1, mainly because Halcro is brighter then XPR-1. That doesn't mean that Halcro is more "right", it means its just different. The point with harsh is that the others are smoother when reproducing human voices. If you ask me if the the sound difference was 10 or 20 times - surely not, but for some people even the small increments count. I personally like the XPR-1s, but will be very happy to see them further improved. I think this is possible. |
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Post by arthurz on Feb 6, 2013 16:15:45 GMT -5
Zahov, I appreciate seeing this data. To help us interpret it better, could you please tell us how you did the testing? Also, do you have an opinion about McIntosh amps? (I couldn't distinguish between the XPR-5 and MC601, so I'm wondering if it's my ears or just that your high-end amps are that much better than either of these two.)
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 6, 2013 23:04:30 GMT -5
Guys, please do not feel offended. The amps I am comparing XPR-1 sell from US$ 25,000 (Halcro and Krell) to US$ 55, 000 for D'agustino Momentum. This is 10 to 22 times more then a pair of XPR-1s. The only exception is the Devialet which is about US$ 12,500, but is completely integrated digital machine. Still it has its first 5 watts in class A then moves to class D. jim At home I would easily distinguish between Halcro DM-58 and XPR-1, mainly because Halcro is brighter then XPR-1. That doesn't mean that Halcro is more "right", it means its just different. The point with harsh is that the others are smoother when reproducing human voices. If you ask me if the the sound difference was 10 or 20 times - surely not, but for some people even the small increments count. I personally like the XPR-1s, but will be very happy to see them further improved. I think this is possible. Perhaps what you hear as "harshness" is actually there in the voice and the Halcro is removing it, while the XPR is revealing it. I'm not a Halcro fan, never have been, they always sound too "tube" like for my ears, even back to when Halcro was owned by Minelab. Keep in mind that Halcro is an Australian Company and so I should be doing the parochial thing and pumping up their tyres. Their stuff is superb of course, a couple of friends rave incessantly over their amps, but just not my taste. Cheers Gary |
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benzo
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Post by benzo on Feb 7, 2013 0:17:07 GMT -5
Zahov, I do not have experience with any if the designs to which you refer but I would hope you are correct in your assessment. I would hate to think that the only reason for buying the Krell, Halcro or D'Agostino boils down to cosmetics.
The issue I have with your assessment boils down to your use of only one word, harshness. I have changed interconnects and speaker wire, coupled my XPR-2 to tube and transistor preamps and compared it to, Krell KSA-200, Audio Research D90, Bryston 4BST and Rega Mira amps, admittedly all ancient in dog years, but still found it outstandingly smooth in the midrange. I much preferred it to any of those amps. Arthurz, who's take on the much more upmarket McIntosh MC601 prompted me to give the amp a try, also did not report this characteristic. If anything, to me, the great joy of this amp is its midrange smoothness, something I would never have previously hoped for in an amp of this power.
I initially bought this amp because I wanted to hold off a while before buying my dream Passlabs 350.5 but will move on to improve other parts of my setup before reconsidering amplifiers. I just find this amp so satisfying. I agree with you that it's a superb value even if I can't comment on its place in the amp Pantheon.
Again, please do not let any contrary, impressions dissuade you from sharing your views. I'm sure there are many people on this forum who think we are both crazy for believing that there are any audible differences between non-defective amplifiers. I am very grateful for the respectful treatment they give us newcomers.
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Post by kzone on Feb 7, 2013 1:34:50 GMT -5
Every class A/B amp has some power in pure class A. The point is that this power could be very low, and then in practice the amp will work only in class A/B even at low levels. That means higher crossover distortions at low levels and as a consequence lower sound quality. I should say here that I compared my XPR-1 amps to KRELL EVO-402E, Devialet and Dan D'agostino Momentum monoblocks. The speakers were Magico Q-7. All of the above amps outperformed XPR-1. The difference is evident (but the price difference is evident as well). The voices coming out of XPR-1 is harsh in comparison. At home where I compare it to Halcro DM-58, running Focal Grande Utopia EM I have the same observations. Considering the price of XPR-1 it is a very good amp, but put next to the top performers it loses the competition. Honestly "XPR-1 – Nothing less than the most" slogan doesn't hold. What I feel is the amp has a great potential, but it is somehow waiting to be unlocked. Maybe the bias should be higher? BTW, very soon I will put my amps on test with AP 2722 to see some real world measurements of the amp. Lets see. XPR-1 is good, and possibly can be even better. Zahov, what preamp did u use? I have personally compared in my house between the XPA1/XSP1, Krell Evo 400/202 and Single/dual Devialet. I find the differences to be more than just harshness.. the tonality, depth layering and ability of individual instruments/vocalz to old its own pace and rythm differs significantly among them |
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looking back I me sitting down some music on and me looking back at her with this on my face.. ;D
