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Post by yves on Mar 5, 2013 11:06:38 GMT -5
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Post by yves on Mar 5, 2013 11:27:18 GMT -5
As long as those people realize that the difference they think they hear is due to the functions of their brain and not due to an inherent characteristic of the cable, then as an engineer I'm good with that. I tried enjoying music with the functions of my brain disabled. I could still vaguely hear the difference, but the next day in the morning, the functions were a tad hard to get re-enabled...
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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 5, 2013 11:56:53 GMT -5
A cable shootout at Emofest would still be of great value. I certainly wouldn't travel across the country to waste my time listening to cables, there are much better things to discuss and present.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Mar 5, 2013 13:02:07 GMT -5
As a psychologist I often have to break bad news to people. "Sorry, it is not possible to raise your IQ." Or, "Sadly, this brain damage will only slightly improve" or even "I hate to disagree with you, but I just do not think your main problem is the aliens flying close formation drills in your back yard." I have found that a kind heart and sympathetic ear make it much, much easier for the listener to consider what I am saying when it is challenging to their deeply held beliefs or hopes. Any trace of insult or superiority on my part is death to my attempts to persuade. But then, I am trying to persuade, not demean or criticize. Let him who has ears to hear . . . And for the record, the most expensive cables I own are from BlueJean and the high dollar speaker wire in my system cost $5 each from Area 51. Trey In the South we just say, "Bless your heart". ;D
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Mar 5, 2013 13:37:56 GMT -5
On speaker wires and interconnects: You can hear a difference between 2 sets of interconnects; I don't think that should be discounted. But, the follow up question needs to be, why? Obviously, one is coloring the sound and the other isn't. My case in point; 2 years ago I changed out my speaker wires to the Emotiva ones I'm currently using. Immediately the sound improved noticeably! The reason? My speaker wires had corroded inside the insulation (used Home Depot wire back in 2000). This corrosion caused the old wire to color the sound. When I went to a new, non-corroded, wire the sound improved. Point 1 - Or, BOTH are coloring the sound, but in different ways (i.e., neither is "flat"). Point 2 - How in the world does speaker wire corrode WITHIN its insulation? (Once a year I'll re-make the ends, but along its whole length? Well,...).
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 5, 2013 13:38:02 GMT -5
As a southerner, I have said that! Made me laugh brother!
Trey
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Mar 5, 2013 13:48:12 GMT -5
On speaker wires and interconnects: You can hear a difference between 2 sets of interconnects; I don't think that should be discounted. But, the follow up question needs to be, why? Obviously, one is coloring the sound and the other isn't. My case in point; 2 years ago I changed out my speaker wires to the Emotiva ones I'm currently using. Immediately the sound improved noticeably! The reason? My speaker wires had corroded inside the insulation (used Home Depot wire back in 2000). This corrosion caused the old wire to color the sound. When I went to a new, non-corroded, wire the sound improved. Point 1 - Or, BOTH are coloring the sound, but in different ways (i.e., neither is "flat"). Point 2 - How in the world does speaker wire corrode WITHIN its insulation? (Once a year I'll re-make the ends, but along its whole length? Well,...). Point 1 - agreed! Point 2 - good question! All I know is that when I pulled the wire I could see that the opaque-amber insulation had turned greenish-black on the inside. I cut the insulation to expose the wire and it was a hot mess of corrosion and goo. So, my thought is that either the wires were oxidizing because it was exposed to oxygen and/or the insulation was breaking down and the result was oxidizing the wires. Either way, the wires were bad and changing to new wire bettered my sound. I would have got this same effect if I would have gone out to Home Depot and bought new wire.
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Mar 5, 2013 13:55:20 GMT -5
stiehl11 typed: "...had turned greenish-black on the inside. I cut the insulation to expose the wire and it was a hot mess of corrosion and goo. So, my thought is that either the wires were oxidizing because it was exposed to oxygen and/or the insulation was breaking down and the result was oxidizing the wires".
You know what that sounds like to me? Its the PVC in the insulation covering breaking down - because when it does it usually forms a sticky greenish goo/substance like you're describing. So I'd blame the cheap insulation material here. Home Depot bought? Probably the GE brand they carry then. Thanks for the follow up reply!
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Mar 5, 2013 14:48:23 GMT -5
You are not the only one to have this happen. I ran the runs to my rear speakers through the floor and basement 15 years ago. I replaced them after 3 years as they started turning green. I clipped a piece out of the center of a 20 ft run at lunch. This is what they look like now: Chuck
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Post by jmilton on Mar 5, 2013 14:58:47 GMT -5
^ Mmmmm. Twizzlers!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 5, 2013 15:00:02 GMT -5
Exactly what went through my mind! ;D ;D
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Mar 5, 2013 15:02:27 GMT -5
Exactly what went through my mind! ;D ;D My dog chewed through a couple sets of these... apparently she liked them (at least going in). ;D
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Post by 1960broookwood on Mar 5, 2013 17:14:54 GMT -5
You can add me to the list of demented souls that believe cables make a difference.
Back in the day West Michigan had an actual high end audio store Classic Stereo set up a demo using 3 sets of identical Mirage bookshelf speakers on a switcher with the speaker wires being the variable--and to my ear there is a difference.
I also tossed my cables that I used for years due for corrosion issues and went with Belden Infinity industrial wire that is used in robotic applications--because it was something what I had easy access to and was proven to stand up to extreme conditions
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Post by arthurz on Mar 5, 2013 17:20:46 GMT -5
1960broookwood, what was the difference between the three sets of wires?
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Post by 1960broookwood on Mar 5, 2013 18:00:02 GMT -5
They had multiple sets of wires ranging from the cheap 22ga 4 conductor to some esoteric stuff--and the ability to switch between 3 sets at any given time. The difference was in soundstage and bass response--as a general rule the larger the gauge and the smaller the individual strands the better the sound. There was some discussion if "skin effect" came into play. That was back in the day when Consumer Reports rated MCS and Technics higher than the first NAD components even though enthusiasts mags such as the Absolute Sound were raving about them--their engineers could measure a static value--but not actual sound quality
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Post by arthurz on Mar 5, 2013 18:17:15 GMT -5
Ah, I don't think the effect of wire gauge is controversial.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 5, 2013 18:25:03 GMT -5
Large gauge speaker wire allows higher power handling and less signal loss due to resistance. And that's all it does.
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Post by arthurz on Mar 5, 2013 18:38:22 GMT -5
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Post by 1960broookwood on Mar 5, 2013 19:33:56 GMT -5
There you go. It's a 'set up' by the Store ;D You've been had ;D You can prove it easily by doing it yourself. Every internet forum has an "expert" that feels the need to run down anyone with an opinion different than what they hold. To quote the urban dictionary "that's nice"
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Mar 5, 2013 19:53:50 GMT -5
I guess my small imoticon didn't work.... so here you go..... Although I agree with your views, I don't agree with you methods. You come into this thread like a bull in a china shop - yelling you're stupid. Just one time I'd like to see one of these cable threads stick to civility and rationality. I guess it's just not possible!
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