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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 9:09:51 GMT -5
Hi Chuckie -
I just addressed some of your comments in Garbulky's AM4 review thread, but the rest I'll speak to here.
Yes - the question of "what is accurate" gets into every area of audio. Was the material accurately recorded? Does the playback system accurately reproduce what is on the recording? Do our ears perceive accuracy the same?
We'll never know if the material was accurately recorded or not. Since we weren't there at the original performance, we can only guess.
Does the playback system accurately reproduce? This will be dependent on the third question:
Do our ears perceive accuracy the same? Obviously not BUT even though we perceive it differently, we all KNOW what a live performance sounds like to us. That comparison of real music in real space to what we hear from the reproduction system is a FULLY valid comparison of accuracy. It already incorporates any differences in individual perception and makes moot whether the recording was accurate to the original event or not. If it sounds like real, live music to us, then it MUST be, by definition, accurate.
So now we come to the question of "smooth" vs. "elevated high end." I contend that it is irrelevant. If what you're hearing sounds, to you, like real, live music, then the system IS accurate.
To me, the AM4 sound is "too smooth." It doesn't sound like live music to me. It "homogenizes" (for lack of a better word) both my realistic and my poor recordings into "OK." OK may be a blessing for those poor recordings, but it's a curse for the realistic ones.
Moving on to two other issues:
The Definitive Technology SM65s did sound bright to me when I was auditioning them using an Audioquest Dragonfly. Once I got rid of that DAC and began using others, the brightness disappeared. Currently, using any of my Oppo BDP-105 as a DAC, my Jolida FX tube DAC, or my Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2 USB DAC, the speakers do NOT sound bright at all. They don't sound as smooth as the AM4s either. But I certainly would no longer call them "bright."
And finally, yes, I realize that the new passive Emotiva speakers aren't designed to compete with the self-powered Airmotiv or Stealth series speakers. However, they appear, at this point, to use the same tweeters. If the passive speakers have the same smooth, homogenizing sound as the AM4s then they aren't the speakers for me.
Cheers - Boomzilla
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Post by kevynwight on Feb 1, 2014 10:55:17 GMT -5
You make a good point. I must confess I am a bit more optimistic for this reason. There are different models and sizes of folded ribbons. There are tower speakers utilizing folded ribbons that cost huge amounts of money like with Adam audio. I doubt they would sell much if they had a poor dispersion/sound etc. These Legacy aeris stand nearly 5 feet and the AMT are located near the top. Well above ear level at a seated position. If the dispersion was awful I doubt they could sell it for the 19k price these go for. The reviews also don't really mention any dispersion issues. Well, I had Adam Column Mk3 Actives for a month, and they were fantastic. I can't say enough good things about them, other than the fact I sent them back. On the Adams, the AMT Midrange crossed over to the upper woofer at 800 Hz, and then the AMT tweeter took over at 2800 Hz. This is a bit different than the Legacy Aeris, where the AMT tweeter starts at 2800 Hz and then an AMT "super-tweeter" takes over up at 8000 Hz. I thought dispersion was pretty decent on the Adams. They were focused and could produce a jaw-dropping sweet spot, but sound was still excellent everywhere. I love the air motion transformer technology. On another note, I have been waiting to see Janszen's new zA1.1 speakers -- smaller than the zA2.1, with slightly smaller woofers and only one electrostatic panel. David wants to do actives too, and if he can produce a zA1.1 active with a good introductory price I'm probably going to go that direction. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 14:58:20 GMT -5
Well then, obviously, the "homogenization effect" is NOT inherent in the ribbon driver technology, but only in Emotiva's Airmotiv (and Stealth?) implementation(s). If the passive speakers have "upgraded" tweeters, then they may be something! Otherwise...
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 17:27:00 GMT -5
And in fact, my resolve is slowly rapidly weakening... I see some Thiel CS-5i speakers that I can afford that not only go down to 23 Hz @ -1 dB but also come in after shipping under $3K.
Unfortunately, since they're essentially 2 ohms throughout their bass range, if I bought them, I might then feel the desire to buy some XPR-1s (which I've SWORN not to do). LOL
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Feb 1, 2014 17:53:47 GMT -5
And in fact, my resolve is slowly rapidly weakening... I see some Thiel CS-5i speakers that I can afford that not only go down to 23 Hz @ -1 dB but also come in after shipping under $3K.
Confucious Confused say "When the itch becomes unbearable and there's a backscratcher handy, go ahead and scratch it!  Do the Thiels come in the color you want? If so, it's a nobrainer. Buy them, because the sooner you do the sooner Emotiva will release their speakers! (at least if you have my luck).  Besides, you can get the Thiels now, try them out and sell them when Emotiva passive speakers are released.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 18:00:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the Thiels are that ^$#&*^(*&^%&$@^&$%^&* BLACK! If they'd been a wood color, I'd have already ordered them. Also, the seller is at the far end of the continent from me, doesn't have the original boxes, and may or may not know how to pack heavy things.
Even if the speakers arrive without visible damage, there's no telling how many trucks they fell off of during shipment and what has happened to that goliath of a crossover board in each speaker.
As you can see, I'm trying to talk myself into waiting.
I'm also personally reluctant to purchase Emotiva speakers unless I'm reasonably certain that I'll want to keep them. I'd feel guilty if I had to send them back. This is an illogical attitude, but I feel it strongly. Any psychological insights into this?
B'Ziller
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 1, 2014 18:19:05 GMT -5
I'm also personally reluctant to purchase Emotiva speakers unless I'm reasonably certain that I'll want to keep them. I'd feel guilty if I had to send them back. This is an illogical attitude, but I feel it strongly. Any psychological insights into this? B'Ziller Yeah - you're crazy. We all know that.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 21:30:59 GMT -5
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Feb 1, 2014 21:35:06 GMT -5
Yes, Lsc - I've heard Revels, Avalons, & Thiels that sounded, to my ears, better than anything else I'd heard. I'm not going to diss the new Emotiva speakers yet; they may be more than the sum of their parts. But that said, I may also not be in the front of the line to buy them until I've read some reviews of the Emo towers vs. the Airmotiv & Stealth lines. I hope for you, that Emo targeted the Revel Performa3 speakers as a reference. If they come close to or exceed these speakers, you'll have a huge hit and Emotiva will be a serious player in the marketplace for speakers. It's a tall order though and I wish them the best of luck. Also, Revel designs all of its drivers and crossover, so they have 100% control over what they are building. It's a extreme sophisticated level of design and testing they have going on...and it only takes one listen to the F208 to realize this. Avalon I'm sure are great too...there are lots of great speakers out there. I'm done with my speaker hunt but I hope your hunt will end up as successful as mine. I'm all smiles every time I turn my system on. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 1, 2014 21:48:14 GMT -5
Thanks, Lsc - I'm going to be trying to find a Revel dealer if I don't succumb to the Thiels first. I'd at least like to listen to the 208s before deciding. I've previously owned Thiel 1.6 and 3.6 models and LOVED them both. I've heard the Revel F30 (a long time ago) but only in the dealer's showroom. At that same dealer's I also heard the Avalon Symbol that knocked me out too.
I have listened to Polks, Axioms, Magnepans, Paradigms, and my current DefTechs as well, and of that lot, preferred the Axioms. I don't think that even the Axioms were in the league of any of the Thiels, the Revels, or the Avalons, though.
I heard one B&W model that I liked (with a diamond tweeter), but they were $10K used. I could spend that, but would prefer not to.
One way to go would be to find a used pair of Thiel 1.7s and mate them with a pair of subs. Even if I got the Revel F208s, I think I'd still need subs. Alternately, the new Emotiva speakers (with or without subs, depending on the LF cutoff) might do me too.
I might (and might not) be able to wait for Emofest to actually hear the Emotiva speakers before deciding. I'm thinking that once they ship, I can learn enough from the reviews here & elsewhere to decide yes or no on them.
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Post by Metaldude on Feb 2, 2014 4:18:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Lsc - I'm going to be trying to find a Revel dealer if I don't succumb to the Thiels first. I'd at least like to listen to the 208s before deciding. I've previously owned Thiel 1.6 and 3.6 models and LOVED them both. I've heard the Revel F30 (a long time ago) but only in the dealer's showroom. At that same dealer's I also heard the Avalon Symbol that knocked me out too. I have listened to Polks, Axioms, Magnepans, Paradigms, and my current DefTechs as well, and of that lot, preferred the Axioms. I don't think that even the Axioms were in the league of any of the Thiels, the Revels, or the Avalons, though. I heard one B&W model that I liked (with a diamond tweeter), but they were $10K used. I could spend that, but would prefer not to. One way to go would be to find a used pair of Thiel 1.7s and mate them with a pair of subs. Even if I got the Revel F208s, I think I'd still need subs. Alternately, the new Emotiva speakers (with or without subs, depending on the LF cutoff) might do me too. I might (and might not) be able to wait for Emofest to actually hear the Emotiva speakers before deciding. I'm thinking that once they ship, I can learn enough from the reviews here & elsewhere to decide yes or no on them. He he he , ah the dilema of decision making in this our addiction of choice, brain racking and wallet emptying solutions to enhance our sound...Don't ya just love this sport |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 2, 2014 7:27:15 GMT -5
Hi metaldude!
Yeah it is a dilemma. I'll keep mulling it over.
I see you got a new XSP-1! WRITE US A REVIEW!
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Post by thorcorps on Feb 2, 2014 10:19:17 GMT -5
Maybe you can buy some acoustic treatments to tide you over for a few months until you decide on your next set of speakers. I just ordered a set of panels from ATS for my bedroom (since I already have them in the L/R, HT, and Office). A small investment that keeps delivering no matter what speakers or electronics you swap in/out.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 2, 2014 10:25:15 GMT -5
+1 on the ATS panels! They made more difference in my room than the past half-dozen speakers I'd tried.
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Post by speakertypeguy on Feb 7, 2014 16:06:58 GMT -5
 Ask me no questions...then I can tell no lies. A taste of things to come. boys i think you got it all wrong .. the amt tweeter is a small driver . i say this it is as long as it is wide it looks to be 1"x1"-1.5"x1.5".it may be more like 1"x1.5" the other 3 drivers look like they are 4"-5.25" as all 3 look to be 3-4 of the tweeters wide . it looks as tho they going for the sexy slim tower rt with these .. |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 7, 2014 16:18:47 GMT -5
Ask me no questions...then I can tell no lies. A taste of things to come. boys i think you got it all wrong .. the amt tweeter is a small driver . i say this it is as long as it is wide it looks to be 1"x1"-1.5"x1.5".it may be more like 1"x1.5" the other 3 drivers look like they are 4"-5.25" as all 3 look to be 3-4 of the tweeters wide . it looks as tho they going for the sexy slim tower rt with these .. I can't believe it's been almost 2 months since Big Dans tease,,,,,,,wow! Time sure flies!!! Please tell us more BD, it's been long enough,,,,,,,,don't you think? Nick |
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Post by pop on Feb 7, 2014 16:20:43 GMT -5
I agree! Troops revolt! We want answers! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 16:35:54 GMT -5
Sure is a nice looking speaker.
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Post by ansat on Feb 7, 2014 16:47:17 GMT -5
I agree, another teaser would be great. Right now I only have the xmc budgeted. Would be nice to know if that needs to change |
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Post by speakertypeguy on Feb 7, 2014 16:58:49 GMT -5
one would think they would have these out for sale as new 2014 gear..lol
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