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Post by roadrunner on Dec 10, 2013 20:23:58 GMT -5
I loved the Emotiva Reference series speakers. I thought they were one of the biggest bargains in the speaker market. When Emo discontinued them there was talk about using similar designs but with folded ribbon tweeters and mids. I would have snapped up those speakers if they ever made it to being offered by Emotiva. The ERM, ERT, and ERD Speakers were exceptional performers at unbelievable low prices. They easily competed with other brands selling for 5 times the price.
If nothing else, when bringing speaker manufacturing to the US, I would like to see them bring the Reference Series speakers back while replacing the soft dome tweeters with the folded ribbons like used in the Stealth speakers. That should be easy enough to quickly bring to market. That would give them a presence in the market until they could bring out the higher quality passive speakers they were talking about. I recommended the Emo Reference speakers to a lot of people, on and off the Lounge and every one of them love their Emo speakers.
Hopefully they will add both active and passive designs to their inventory.
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kse
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Post by kse on Dec 10, 2013 20:39:31 GMT -5
I wanted a set of the GE Triton Twos so bad. About 2mos. ago I finally made the decision that I was ready to plunk down 3-large and buy a pair.
I contacted the closest dealer to me that had a pair in stock and a pair set up for demo. I drove the hour to Hartford with my truck and a few of my go-to CDs. I must have listened for the better part of 2hrs. I was extremely disappointed; both in what I was hearing and the fact that I wasn't going home with new toys.
To be honest, I am not totally convinced that they are as lacking as what I was hearing. I would really like to listen to another set in a different setting.
The claim to fame with these badboys is their ribbon tweeter and their incredible bass output from the built-in subwoofers and on-board 1200W amps. Well, let's just say that my 14 year old Boston towers with their much less sophisticated crossover componentry, silk dome tweets, and 150W subs, were superior in every way.
Obviously I am used to my speakers from having listened to them for over a decade, but that is why I listed to a variety of material over a 2hr period. I just couldn't fathom that it was ever possible. They didn't sound bad, but based on the dozens of accolades the GE T2s have received, I expected much, much more.
Maybe the T2s really shine in HT applications, but for 2ch audio I was left unimpressed.
I now would really like to audition a pair of Def Tech Super Towers. I have listened to a pair of the little brothers, the STS, and it was a nice sounding speaker. Much closer to that of my Boston than the GE T2.
Soooo, all that said, if Emotiva jumped in the ring of building floor standing towers with built in subs my interest would certainly be piqued.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 22:52:16 GMT -5
What I'd like to buy from Emotiva is a three-way tower speaker. Following or similar specs please: 1. Bass to 25 Hz. with -3dB anechoic measurement & a large enough driver to make it authoritative (passive radiator(s) OK too) 2. Midrange with either fast cone or pleated radiators (think Stealth tweeters, but larger) 3. Pleated tweeters like the Stealth 4. Passive not active so I can use my existing Emotiva amp 5. Some colors OTHER THAN BLACK 6. Sensitivity doesn't matter to me - I don't listen loudly 7. WAF friendly design 8. Available & shipping ASAP 9. EXCEPTIONALLY braced and inert cabinet Yes, this is a CROWDED field, but Emotiva will have a price advantage with their established reputation & internet-direct sales model. Eagerly awaiting these! Why would they make a tower that goes that low when they haven't so far even made a sub that goes that low? Let's keep the low bass below 40Hz (in towers) or up to 80Hz (in bookshelf) in a separate sub(s) where it belongs! I don't see Emotiva into making super large and expensive towers just so they can go down below 30Hz. A quality tower down to 40Hz or so (like the ERT-8.3) along with a superb sub is far better. Yes, it does take some effort to blend the tower/sub properly. The Reference speakers were excellent speakers with a great tweeter. I did an extensive A/B with the silk dome tweeters in my ERM-1 and the folded ribbon tweeter in my Airmotiv4's and I found the silk dome very slightly superior except that the folded ribbon had better off axis horizontal dispersion (the dispersion on the silk dome was still excellent). Perhaps the folded ribbon they would use on a new reference speaker would be superior to the one in the smaller Airmotiv's (which themselves are still excellent). I love my Airnotiv4's and most folks seem to really love the new Stealth's. However, staying with only self powered speakers (with the power cord issues) IMO would be disappointing to me and I believe a mistake. I hope Emo brings back a speaker very similar to the former reference line with the possibility of having folded ribbon tweeters. These speakers (one or two towers and 2 bookshelf and one surround) need to remain in the factory direct price range with no color or finish options. If you want speakers priced over $2000/pair and multiple finishes then look to B&M speakers. Emotiva doesn't need to try and match high end B&M speakers. Some members referred to the Emo Reference speakers as dark and boring. That is how many folks refer to speakers that are natural, defined, non-fatiguing, and flat. That is exactly the former reference line. The idea with a very limited series of speakers is to make a speaker that appeals to the most at a great price. You can't please all the people all the time with one speaker series. Some like the edgy peaked metal tweeter sound or the super defined sound of the panel speaker that beams with little disperion. That is not a speaker sound that will appeal to the most. The ERM-1 had the exact mid/high end section of the ERT-8.3. www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-review. The entire reference line took lots of 4 ohm power, but that is no problem with the Emo amps. Andrew says: " We still have a lot of passive speakers in our current arsenal." Really? Where are they? The XRM-6.1 is on the website but has been "unavailable" for a long time. The only two speakers (except outdoor and in-wall/ceiling) actually for sale are the XRT-5.2 and XRT-6.2 and they are on closeout! This doesn't sound like a lot of speakers to me, with no bookshelfs or surround speaker. EMP seems to have lots of speakers in stock but I don't think we should be promoting them at the lounge. Too bad we can't show an ERT-8.3 or XRT-6.2 in our promotional videos. Having a British speaker in our CD player video is like saying our speakers aren't good enough to appreciate the excellence of the Emo component (not a good message IMO). That to me is like using a Mac or Krell amp in our speaker videos. The Stealth speakers are receiving raves. Let's get some Emotiva passive speakers for more raves and begin promoting them. Maybe they are on the ship now along with my XPS-1 (  ). |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 10, 2013 23:11:28 GMT -5
Why would they make a tower that goes that low... In a single word: SIMPLICITY. If I have a sub, I need bass management, extra power cords, extra signal cables, and another ugly box in the room. To get the dispersion of bass to avoid standing waves, I need TWO subwoofers with twice the clutter. Sorry, Chuckie - You can do it however you wish, but for me - 40 Hz. towers are never again going to be worth a penny of my money. And by the bye, your "B&M" speakers are actually "B&W," although, I personally, think they sound like BM... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 23:22:05 GMT -5
I wanted a set of the GE Triton Twos so bad. About 2mos. ago I finally made the decision that I was ready to plunk down 3-large and buy a pair. I contacted the closest dealer to me that had a pair in stock and a pair set up for demo. I drove the hour to Hartford with my truck and a few of my go-to CDs. I must have listened for the better part of 2hrs. I was extremely disappointed; both in what I was hearing and the fact that I wasn't going home with new toys. To be honest, I am not totally convinced that they are as lacking as what I was hearing. I would really like to listen to another set in a different setting. The claim to fame with these badboys is their ribbon tweeter and their incredible bass output from the built-in subwoofers and on-board 1200W amps. Well, let's just say that my 14 year old Boston towers with their much less sophisticated crossover componentry, silk dome tweets, and 150W subs, were superior in every way. Obviously I am used to my speakers from having listened to them for over a decade, but that is why I listed to a variety of material over a 2hr period. I just couldn't fathom that it was ever possible. They didn't sound bad, but based on the dozens of accolades the GE T2s have received, I expected much, much more. Maybe the T2s really shine in HT applications, but for 2ch audio I was left unimpressed. I now would really like to audition a pair of Def Tech Super Towers. I have listened to a pair of the little brothers, the STS, and it was a nice sounding speaker. Much closer to that of my Boston than the GE T2. Soooo, all that said, if Emotiva jumped in the ring of building floor standing towers with built in subs my interest would certainly be piqued. KSE, I think I understand the idea/attraction in folks heads (and maybe wives) for a speaker with built-in subs, although I strongly disagree. These speakers are extra heavy and expensive (or should be for the best performance). This is a long discussion but I'll simply say that there are many reasons the sub should be kept in a separate and movable enclosure. An excellent tower (40-50Hz, -3dB) or excellent bookshelf (70-80Hz, -3dB) matched with a sealed sub(s) for music (27-30Hz -3dB) or ported sub (17-22dB, -3dB) for HT/music are no more expensive for even superior performance and the sub(s) can be moved or EQ'd as needed (very important). Yes, there are some sub, sealed and ported, that are excellent both for music and movies. The built-in sub speakers appeal to a small percentage of buyers and I don't think Emotiva would ever consider it. Sorry, but you need to stay with Golden Ears or Def Tech and audition in your own room if you can find a dealer willing to let you take them home. Good Luck.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 23:26:20 GMT -5
Boom, by B&M speakers I meant "brick and mortar" as in speakers sold in local dealer stores.
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Post by paintedklown on Dec 11, 2013 0:12:23 GMT -5
I wanted a set of the GE Triton Twos so bad. About 2mos. ago I finally made the decision that I was ready to plunk down 3-large and buy a pair. I contacted the closest dealer to me that had a pair in stock and a pair set up for demo. I drove the hour to Hartford with my truck and a few of my go-to CDs. I must have listened for the better part of 2hrs. I was extremely disappointed; both in what I was hearing and the fact that I wasn't going home with new toys. To be honest, I am not totally convinced that they are as lacking as what I was hearing. I would really like to listen to another set in a different setting. The claim to fame with these badboys is their ribbon tweeter and their incredible bass output from the built-in subwoofers and on-board 1200W amps. Well, let's just say that my 14 year old Boston towers with their much less sophisticated crossover componentry, silk dome tweets, and 150W subs, were superior in every way. Obviously I am used to my speakers from having listened to them for over a decade, but that is why I listed to a variety of material over a 2hr period. I just couldn't fathom that it was ever possible. They didn't sound bad, but based on the dozens of accolades the GE T2s have received, I expected much, much more. Maybe the T2s really shine in HT applications, but for 2ch audio I was left unimpressed. I now would really like to audition a pair of Def Tech Super Towers. I have listened to a pair of the little brothers, the STS, and it was a nice sounding speaker. Much closer to that of my Boston than the GE T2. Soooo, all that said, if Emotiva jumped in the ring of building floor standing towers with built in subs my interest would certainly be piqued. KSE, I think I understand the idea/attraction in folks heads (and maybe wives) for a speaker with built-in subs, although I strongly disagree. These speakers are extra heavy and expensive (or should be for the best performance). This is a long discussion but I'll simply say that there are many reasons the sub should be kept in a separate and movable enclosure. An excellent tower (40-50Hz, -3dB) or excellent bookshelf (70-80Hz, -3dB) matched with a sealed sub(s) for music (27-30Hz -3dB) or ported sub (17-22dB, -3dB) for HT/music are no more expensive for even superior performance and the sub(s) can be moved or EQ'd as needed (very important). Yes, there are some sub, sealed and ported, that are excellent both for music and movies. The built-in sub speakers appeal to a small percentage of buyers and I don't think Emotiva would ever consider it. Sorry, but you need to stay with Golden Ears or Def Tech and audition in your own room if you can find a dealer willing to let you take them home. Good Luck. I don't like the idea of powered subs in full range towers either. IMO, it defeats the purpose. There are already full range towers with powered subs on the market, and I agree that it is a limited market. I like the idea of keeping all amplifiers outside of the speaker box. There isn't anyone on the lounge that doesn't have capable enough amps for full range towers, and the type of consumer outside of the lounge looking for true full range towers will also have capable amps, or are in the market for them. For me, if there is any type of amplifier built into the speaker, then I will have to look elsewhere. IMO, YMMV. |
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Post by Darksky on Dec 11, 2013 0:17:45 GMT -5
Sandy Gross--one of the original founders of Polk and DefTech-- has several products under the GoldenEar brand that seem to meet quite a few wish lists. 91db efficient--folded ribbon tweeter--and bass to 16hz for the big dog.  The Golden Ears sounded GOOD at CEDIA . I would not discount them at all. I too, would love to see Emotiva make a new line of passive speakers using their ribbons. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 1:36:02 GMT -5
Sandy Gross--one of the original founders of Polk and DefTech-- has several products under the GoldenEar brand that seem to meet quite a few wish lists. 91db efficient--folded ribbon tweeter--and bass to 16hz for the big dog. The Golden Ears sounded GOOD at CEDIA . I would not discount them at all. I too, would love to see Emotiva make a new line of passive speakers using their ribbons. I can see folks going for the built-in sub speakers. I just personally don't like that design and don't think there is large enough customer base to make it financially viable for Emo to make them. That's what we are talking about here, whether Emotiva should make this type of speaker. As for " bass to 16hz for the big dog", I wouldn't believe everything you read in the specs or are told at a show. I think Sandy Gross would have more sense than to list the FR of the Triton Two as " 16 Hz - 35 kHz." That is stretching things a lot! We usually see this exaggeration without dB reference in no-name or white van speakers. Sound and Vision measured the Triton Two down to 44Hz at -3dB. (That's about the same as the Emo ERT-8.3, 45Hz at -2dB specified). Stereophile said: "For speakers of this size, regardless of the driver complement, I normally expect in-room bass extension to 40Hz, or a few Hz lower if you have a room mode that boosts the lower frequencies. Golden Ear Technology claims 16Hz for the Triton Two; that may be a bit optimistic." (Yeah, and that might be the understatement of the year!). I own emo ERM-1 bookshelf speakers mated with an Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus sub and realistically get down to about the 18Hz range at -3dB (specified 18Hz at -2dB). Couldn't find my tests on the LFM-1 Plus but the previous model LFM-1 was about 19Hz at -3dB (Audioholics) and the LFM-1 EX was 16Hz at -3dB. My speaker/sub system in 2.1 mode for about $890, 5 years ago, driven by an XPA-5 (about 350 watts/ch in stereo/4 ohms) and crossed at 80Hz plays very loud and clean. Actually, Darksky the system you have, Focal towers and Rythmik dual driver subs x two will blow the Triton Two right out of Colorado in the low bass. Please I'm not intending to knock the Triton's, they are an excellent full range speaker, especially if you don't have room for a sub. Just not the same as a tower or bookshelf with a low extension sub. |
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Post by Dr. Feel Good on Dec 11, 2013 3:43:01 GMT -5
Dear Emotiva, Please think along the lines of bang and Olefson, use your amp. technology and create some beautiful Reffetence series speakers. And let's stay with the times please and use ribon midrange and tweeters or ceramic cones. This was my two cents. |
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kse
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Post by kse on Dec 11, 2013 7:44:22 GMT -5
PC & Chuckie, I agree with you both that the market is limited, and I wouldn't really expect Emotiva to design a speaker of that type. They are heavy and very finicky with placement but they do have their place.
I just saw the mention of Sandy Gross and wanted to add my recent experience with his latest flagship design.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2013 8:07:12 GMT -5
PK makes a good point - Towers with powered subs are typically intended for use with low-powered AVRs. Since I've got an Emotiva amp capable of powering Starship Enterprise, there is no need for any powered sub in my speakers. Passive will be fine, thanks.
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Post by Canuck_fr on Dec 11, 2013 8:52:57 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2013 9:08:56 GMT -5
The EMP people give NO specs on their speakers. What's that about?
The HTD site gives a frequency response starting at 30 Hz., but gives no +/- dB numbers. I could say the same of my TV's speakers.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 11, 2013 11:15:11 GMT -5
The last Reference series speakers that Emotiva has produced as I own (ERT-8.3, ERM-6.3, ERM-6.2, ERD-1) was a fantastic design, and at my question to Dan at the last summer Boston Emo on the road "why did you stopped producing this unbelievable good speakers series", Dan answered to me just because the sales are not enough and maybe caused by their black monolitic look and also the speakers niche market.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Dec 11, 2013 11:28:34 GMT -5
I thought you were "Getting very near the end", why should Emo build a speaker for you? While you have a lot of experience and seemingly a decerning ear, you seem rather fickle and go through more equipment than any 10 other lounge members. Maybe this is just another 'what I'd like' discussion thread, but it seems it should be directed to the industry as a whole rather than Emotiva, I'm not that sure you are their 'core' customer.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2013 12:12:54 GMT -5
Hi AudioHTIT
Actually, I think I am "getting very near the end." The equipment I now have satisfies more than previous combinations. In fact, this IS another "what I'd like" discussion thread. I doubt that Emotiva will build what I like, but it doesn't prevent me from wishing. There are a few speaker models currently in production that might satisfy me, but I've not been able to audition them. Until that happens (the audition), I plan to stick with what I've got. Time will tell if that is ultimately the case, but as I said - I'm spending more time enjoying the music now and less fretting over what I dislike.
I'm probably nobody's "core customer," and never will be.
Boomzilla
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Post by Canuck_fr on Dec 11, 2013 13:57:03 GMT -5
The EMP people give NO specs on their speakers. What's that about? The HTD site gives a frequency response starting at 30 Hz., but gives no +/- dB numbers. I could say the same of my TV's speakers. The Best thing to do is look at some of the reviews. Some people have actually had measured reviews on both these speakers which seem to be in the "Best bang for the buck" category. |
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Post by paintedklown on Dec 11, 2013 14:07:43 GMT -5
Emp Tek Towers are rated @ Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz ±3dB according to their web site.
HTD towers ate rated @ Frequency Response: 30Hz-40kHz. No +/- db rating given.
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Post by knucklehead on Dec 11, 2013 14:13:23 GMT -5
All I want is a ribbon tweeter kit to retro-fit my ERTs. Not that I don't like the tweeter. I do. I'd just like to have that option. And that kit would probably fit on my ERM-1's. Anyone who's seen or owned the ERT's and ERM-1's know how close these two speakers are. I've said it before - the ERTs are a pair of ERM-1's grafted to a pair of 8" speakers. More or less.
And FWIW I've owned speakers with a sub built into the L/R towers. Infinity IL50's. Very nice sounding speakers that needed something to tame the subs - and Infinity supplied what they call a RABOS kit for each set sold. It worked - mostly. Finding the best placement for those 60 pound each speaker (with very long and very sharp spikes) was not easy. Every place the subs sounded good was either unacceptable for permanent placement or the upper end of the speakers sounded badly. I ended up selling them. They did have prodigious amounts of bass though.
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