Flunk
Sensei
Just got a new job.....
Posts: 171
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Post by Flunk on Dec 12, 2013 9:24:31 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get fired for this, but I've managed to get a hold of a few specs... Frequency response: Yes Efficiency: There is some Nominal impedance: Yes to all Recommended amplifier power: Any Emotiva amplifier (surprised?) Input connectors: It has them Driver complement: You're so kind Bass alignment: Straight Crossover: You can use them for music AND movies Crossover frequency: How ever much you prefer to watch music and movies Size: Somewhere between a stapler and an elephant Weight (each): How rude. BTW, you didn't get this info from me.  Yes they have Input connectors, I Always wanted a pair of those.  |
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Post by Canuck_fr on Dec 12, 2013 9:24:35 GMT -5
The other thing I notice about the photo is that there is no apparent attempt to create time-alignment between the drivers. Some companies (Thiel) slope their front panels and use first-order crossovers with additional crossover components to adjust phase of the wave launch. Other companies (the majority) don't think it matters and ignore it. Although I find Thiel speakers exceptionally coherent, it isn't a night and day difference to me. I also notice that there is no apparent attempt (beyond slightly recessing the drivers) to minimize face diffraction of the sound launch. Some companies (Vandersteen) try to minimize the cabinet surface about the divers to eliminate reflections. The Emotiva Stealth speakers also bevel away the cabinets from the drivers for this purpose. Yet on the speaker in the photo, no such beveling is apparent. This may be of greater import. One of the cleanest imaging speakers I've ever heard was the (rare) Avalon Symbol: However, such cabinets are far, far more expensive to produce, and the benefits are still debatable. Finally, the height of the speaker seems inadequate for tall listeners. Since Dan's no small person himself, perhaps this isn't an issue either. I'm sure the speaker will be voiced in a way that overcomes the physical heights of the drivers. My current Paradigms, for example, are almost five feet tall and when seated, I'm below the tweeter by a significant amount. Despite this, the treble sounds fine. Therefore, I'm assuming that Paradigm did something in the crossover to adjust phasing between the woofer and tweeter such that off-axis response (and even response below the tweeter taking into account lobeing from woofer interactions) works well. So many questions, so few answers. Time will tell... Hello Boomzilla, As you can see from my signature, I have some experience with Speaker building and have done alot of reading on the subject. I don't consider my self an expert but a well read observer and DIYer... Speaker building is never perfect. It is all a question of compromises. As what you are saying is true, it is not as simple as black/white. Time alignement is important at very high cross-over frequencies, but causes another issue. As you can see from your pictures, the tweeter is very distant from the midrange& woofer. This causes the listener to percieve two different sources of sound. This perception is more present at higher crossover frequencies. So the best is to listen and choose what you like. |
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Post by thorcorps on Dec 12, 2013 10:11:26 GMT -5
While this pic does appear to be a small tower, we would normally expect an entire line of speakers, so there are probably bigger and smaller variations to come when/if this gets the production nod. A Piano Gloss option, on either black or veneers is what I prefer. Clearly some folks like a satin or matte finish (presumably to minimize reflections in their HT) as well.
.....and on a slightly different topic that was brought up earlier, I don't care for powered subs integrated into my speakers. My Onix Strata Mini's have them, but it's something else to plug in, and something else to break that you can't necessarily get a direct replacement for when you need one years down the road. I think active monitors are super, but prefer my big towers passive. To adjust mid-bass, etc. you can move them closer/farther from the wall, plug the ports (not usually needed with front ports), or some manufacturers allow you some trim settings on the crossover (either a physical jumper, or a toggle).
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 12, 2013 11:10:17 GMT -5
As Canuck_fr said regarding the Avalon Symbols, "As you can see from your pictures, the tweeter is very distant from the midrange& woofer. This causes the listener to percieve two different sources of sound. This perception is more present at higher crossover frequencies."
This is absolutely correct in theory. In practice, the Symbols sounded more unitary than just about any speaker I've heard. Not much bass, but the speakers virtually disappeared leaving only an aural stage in front of you with what (to my ears) sounded like live music. I'm sure that if I'd wanted to pick nits, I could have found some, but the sound produced by those startled me so much that I just sat/stood entranced.
As to the new Emotiva speaker's specs, I understood Dan when he said "no questions." Sometimes we just have to wait... I'm enjoying my Paradigms so much that waiting isn't the effort it used to be. I hope to enjoy them more once my new amp arrives!
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Post by pop on Dec 12, 2013 13:02:01 GMT -5
All these years I have been keeping an extra pair of underwear on me for this exact moment. You have to be prepared for life. Today I win.
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Post by Poodleluvr on Dec 12, 2013 13:05:54 GMT -5
Due to weight/size/shipping of a Emotiva reference full size 3-way (tweeter, midrange driver, and bass driver) "full range" tower design, I would not mind if said full size tower is a modular design, meaning two modules that are mated or assembled together by the purchaser/user. -- A tweeter/midrange module and a designated woofer module. Shipped as part 1 of 2 and part 2 of 2 boxes. (4 boxes total shipped for a stereo pair.)
Incorporate a folded ribbon tweeter.
I would like external crossovers, and tri-amp capable.
Another option is for a sealed (musical) bass module to be powered by a plate amp, say 1000 watts or better. (like a powered subwoofer which has adjustments allowing the user to dial-in desired bass to his/her personal preference).
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Post by pop on Dec 12, 2013 13:10:36 GMT -5
Dan, I get 3 paychecks in March. So....?
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 12, 2013 13:28:12 GMT -5
As Canuck_fr said regarding the Avalon Symbols, "As you can see from your pictures, the tweeter is very distant from the midrange& woofer. This causes the listener to percieve two different sources of sound. This perception is more present at higher crossover frequencies." This is absolutely correct in theory. In practice, the Symbols sounded more unitary than just about any speaker I've heard. Not much bass, but the speakers virtually disappeared leaving only an aural stage in front of you with what (to my ears) sounded like live music. I'm sure that if I'd wanted to pick nits, I could have found some, but the sound produced by those startled me so much that I just sat/stood entranced. As to the new Emotiva speaker's specs, I understood Dan when he said "no questions." Sometimes we just have to wait... I'm enjoying my Paradigms so much that waiting isn't the effort it used to be. I hope to enjoy them more once my new amp arrives! You said Canuck's statement was "absolutely correct in theory." Yet, your own observations found the localization that supposedly would result from that theory to not be taking place when you listened to the speakers. So what I'm thinking is we bring up all these criticisms and suggestions of how Dan ought to be designing his speakers based on a picture he posts, which are all based on "theories" yet as you and I know, "theories" don't always translate well to the real world. So it seems like we ought to just let Dan do what he does best, which is produce some great equipment and then turn it loose on us to try out. He should have said "no questions and no back seat driving."  And when you get your two-ton XPR-2, you know we expect a review from you (which I'm sure you will post), and how it compares to the other amps you've tried. After you recover from your hernia, of course. |
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Post by thorcorps on Dec 12, 2013 14:14:00 GMT -5
If there was no back seat driving, the Internet may cease to exist.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Dec 12, 2013 14:17:25 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get fired for this, but I've managed to get a hold of a few specs... Frequency response: Yes Efficiency: There is some Nominal impedance: Yes to all Recommended amplifier power: Any Emotiva amplifier (surprised?) Input connectors: It has them Driver complement: You're so kind Bass alignment: Straight Crossover: You can use them for music AND movies Crossover frequency: How ever much you prefer to watch music and movies Size: Somewhere between a stapler and an elephant Weight (each): How rude. BTW, you didn't get this info from me. LMAO!! This is Post of the Day!!  I'm all set on the speaker front for a very long time, but I do admit Dan's picture caused my heart to skip a beat. Beautiful. If these are brought to market, I'll bet they'll sound very, very good. |
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Post by indyscammer on Dec 12, 2013 14:18:22 GMT -5
It looks to me like a 2 way with 3 woofers. Ported for lower extension. That being said I would like to reiterate what a few others (and all people I HIGHLY respect) have said......DROOL!  I was about 6 mos. from purchasing the ERTs when the last one fire-saled out of the warehouse. Second chance for me depending on actual specifications and pricing. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 12, 2013 14:23:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but he DIDN'T say "no back seat driving," so we're free to speculate. He only says he won't comment on our speculations. Fine with me. I'm happy to conjecture till the cows come home. I think the speaker will be available with a warp-drive coil that can only be activated by the new Emotiva X-FAR Reference amps. Once activated, the speakers glow and emit Higgs Boson particles (indicating that matter is transferring to energy and vice versa). The effect will make your head lighter while making the music heavier (see - mass to energy). If only it could have the same effect on your waistline... The amps, unfortunately, will require a dedicated line from the nearest nuclear power station (or for the mobile version, the nearest aircraft carrier). But I digress...
The XPR-2 arrived a half hour ago. It was NOT shrink wrapped to its pallet, but we accepted it anyway because the box seemed intact and no damage was visible. The UPS store guy helped me toss it in the back of my minivan, and now I've got to figure how to remove it from the van, get it in the house, lift it from its boxes, and get it on my stand without my wife noticing... Just kidding - she knew it was coming and rolled her eyes like always!
Getting the above done without back strain, however, will be a bigger challenge. Plan A - Call my buddy who used to be the Olympic weightlifter (seriously) and ask him to come help. I will supply beer. Plan B - If he's still under the weather with flu, then get my grunt on and try it myself. Plan C - If plan B results in injury (or if I suspect that it might based on the "trial lift"), then leave it where it is until somebody else as big, strong, and stupid as me is available. Between the two of us, it'll get done.
This morning, I culled through my speaker wires and interconnects to pick the implements of destruction. Yesterday afternoon, I placed the spikes in the Paradigms and set them on some ceramic tiles to avoid piercing my vinyl floors. Now I quit pecking at the keyboard and see what can be done.
If I'm loopier than usual this afternoon (I know - how can you tell?) when I begin writing again, you'll know that excessive exuberance caused a strain and that pain medicine (or alcohol) has been applied.
Cheers - BoomzCrazy
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Post by Jim on Dec 12, 2013 15:13:20 GMT -5
I need to pay off my credit card (Hello ERC-3!) ........ and still need to buy a couple more amps........ And this is on the Horizon?
So long current and future income!
Those speakers look killer.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Dec 12, 2013 15:35:11 GMT -5
The XPR-2 arrived a half hour ago. It was NOT shrink wrapped to its pallet, but we accepted it anyway because the box seemed intact and no damage was visible. With regards to your XPR-2 shipment. Since you didn't mention having purchased another product along with your XPR-2, I'm going to go ahead and assume a single box (or XPR-2) is all you received. If so, then the fact that there was no shrink wrap is understandable as we only shrink wrap multi-box items that ship along with an XPR amplifier purchase. For example; had you ordered an XPR plus a UMC-200 or PT-7030 then you would've received them both upon the same pallet, strapped and shrink wrapped. Single XPR boxes only get strapped to their pallet, which it sounds like yours did and arrived without damage. |
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Post by knucklehead on Dec 12, 2013 17:33:39 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get fired for this, but I've managed to get a hold of a few specs... Frequency response: Yes Efficiency: There is some Nominal impedance: Yes to all Recommended amplifier power: Any Emotiva amplifier (surprised?) Input connectors: It has them Driver complement: You're so kind Bass alignment: Straight Crossover: You can use them for music AND movies Crossover frequency: How ever much you prefer to watch music and movies Size: Somewhere between a stapler and an elephant Weight (each): How rude. BTW, you didn't get this info from me. Talk about full no disclosure!  |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 12, 2013 18:13:24 GMT -5
I'm probably going to get fired for this, but I've managed to get a hold of a few specs... Frequency response: Yes Efficiency: There is some Nominal impedance: Yes to all Recommended amplifier power: Any Emotiva amplifier (surprised?) Input connectors: It has them Driver complement: You're so kind Bass alignment: Straight Crossover: You can use them for music AND movies Crossover frequency: How ever much you prefer to watch music and movies Size: Somewhere between a stapler and an elephant Weight (each): How rude. BTW, you didn't get this info from me. A fantastic post! I loved the "how rude"! and "efficiency - there is some" |
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Post by Canuck_fr on Dec 13, 2013 8:14:14 GMT -5
As Canuck_fr said regarding the Avalon Symbols, "As you can see from your pictures, the tweeter is very distant from the midrange& woofer. This causes the listener to percieve two different sources of sound. This perception is more present at higher crossover frequencies." This is absolutely correct in theory. In practice, the Symbols sounded more unitary than just about any speaker I've heard. Not much bass, but the speakers virtually disappeared leaving only an aural stage in front of you with what (to my ears) sounded like live music. I'm sure that if I'd wanted to pick nits, I could have found some, but the sound produced by those startled me so much that I just sat/stood entranced. As to the new Emotiva speaker's specs, I understood Dan when he said "no questions." Sometimes we just have to wait... I'm enjoying my Paradigms so much that waiting isn't the effort it used to be. I hope to enjoy them more once my new amp arrives! You hit it right on the nose. Theory doesn't always translate into realism. Like I said speaker building is a series of compromises. Sometimes they work out to be great, sometimes they don't. Listening to the whole assembled package is the only thing that will provide you the answer. This is the same relation as: does a great violin player make for a great orchestra? asnwer: no, its all about how all instruments blend together. So, sometimes a speaker with a tweeter very far from its other drivers sounds great, sometimes a tweeter not time aligned with its other drivers sounds great... Speaker building is making the best with a series of compromises. |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Dec 13, 2013 13:35:38 GMT -5
Due to weight/size/shipping of a Emotiva reference full size 3-way (tweeter, midrange driver, and bass driver) "full range" tower design, I would not mind if said full size tower is a modular design, meaning two modules that are mated or assembled together by the purchaser/user. -- A tweeter/midrange module and a designated woofer module. Shipped as part 1 of 2 and part 2 of 2 boxes. (4 boxes total shipped for a stereo pair.) Incorporate a folded ribbon tweeter. I would like external crossovers, and tri-amp capable. Another option is for a sealed (musical) bass module to be powered by a plate amp, say 1000 watts or better. (like a powered subwoofer which has adjustments allowing the user to dial-in desired bass to his/her personal preference). I slept on this and would amend my suggestions as follows: Fully active design. (no tri-amp, no external crossovers needed due to built-in amplification) Two separate modules as aforementioned that are designed as mated/married consisting of: A tweeter/midrange module including two Class A/B plate amplifiers, "fully" differential balanced design. A dedicated woofer module including high power, efficient Class D plate amplifier. |
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Post by ottaone on Dec 14, 2013 8:08:36 GMT -5
60 mm tweeter, 10 in full range, 8 in woof x2. Sounds good already.
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Post by dcg44s on Dec 14, 2013 18:47:51 GMT -5
 Ask me no questions...then I can tell no lies. A taste of things to come. Thank you. |
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