Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 17:39:44 GMT -5
I think the point was that these are companies that have a long history of developing their products and have already earned a high pedigree... and that normally only happens when you have a lot of people working on the problem over the course of many years. Yeah, I see your point. That brings to my mind companies like Samsung, Onkyo, Sony, Apple, Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Jeep, Rover and Microsoft just to mention a few who have never had any software, hardware or quality control problems.  BTW, I thought the Trinnov was a Russian nuclear powered submarine? ;D |
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Jun 23, 2009 17:59:42 GMT -5
The engineers who work for Emotiva, developing things like 'Emo-Q' are world class, top-of-the-heap people who have been, and are involved in developing for many differenct companies. My point is that what someone may think is a simple, cheap 'Emo-Q' maybe actually be something that was painstakingly developed for multiple companies, and not a low budget venture. Dan L. would not use an EQ system if he felt it was inferior. Knowing the history and company heritage of Emotiva, this is the reply I was hoping for, and it's good enough for me. Additionally, while reading an article about Trinnov, it was mentioned that, regardless of all the parameter controls and processing, anyone with a good ear, would possibly not feel any benefits from Trinnov or any other type or equalization. |
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Post by fronn on Jun 24, 2009 0:04:25 GMT -5
WOW! Maybe the Emo staff should post pictures of degrees earned at institutions of higher learning. Hey! I know! Let's all pony up a scholarship fund so we can send a Emo rep to M.I.T. Clearly, the products I have purchased from Emotiva were created by a bunch of country boys working out of a tree house. Where in the world did they find all of those materials? They must have used the remains from an old steel. Do you think that Emotiva's first attempt at speaker technology was two cups and a string? They don't have the brains to build a room equalization program? Huh?  Please post comments BEFORE you start drinking. Talk about Wow. Where did I say Emotiva was stupid? It's all about resources and investing them in proper places - knowledge about acoustics modeling in environments vs time investment in such a small part of the whole picture. Dann G didn't say anything to discredit what I said, and, frankly, what I said didn't need any discrediting (despite your best efforts). If you think Emotiva has spent the last 3-4 years with a group of engineers just on Emo-Q, I'm simply saying you are wrong. Emo-Q is Cirrus' room correction with a few extra features - it's not going to do any of the more advanced features of Audessy and certainly not of Trinnov (and unless Dan L or Dann G would like to explain what features it has, I'm going to safely assume that's true, as that's a realistic expectation for the UMC/XMC products). It's a matter of setting expectations that are achievable. Emotiva's bottom line is about cost / performance... they didn't include Audyssey/Trinnov because of the additional cost vs putting together an "Emo-Q" wasn't deemed to be worth it (otherwise why wouldn't they just develop a Dolby Volume replacement as well? Dolby Volume was deemed more useful than Audyssey, and I'd 100% agree) - it'll be fine for basic stuff (which is honestly fine with me), but if Emotiva wants a Pre-pro at the price of the UMC-1, they are going to have to spend their budget wisely and product cost has to be kept to reasonable levels. Where did this idea that all their choices were based on _just_ performance? Just because Emotiva sells stuff for cheap and directly to the customer doesn't mean they don't have to follow the same rules in engineering as any other company. As far as my qualifications to speak on the matter, I've worked on the software for various pieces of hardware (high end network appliances on various different chip technologies, some of which are equally complex to the things Emotiva puts out)... It only makes me appreciate them more though. My original post was not meant as an attack or as libel, merely a taming of expectations. I'm a fan of Emotiva and if Emotiva made an entire HT (outside of Speakers - those I can make myself), I'd be getting everything from them, but this forum is in desperate need for reality checks sometimes. |
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Post by jmilton on Jun 24, 2009 6:19:03 GMT -5
Reality checks are for people without imaginations!
(...back to drinking my Kool-Aid)
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Post by airliner on Jun 24, 2009 7:31:05 GMT -5
Did anyone mentioned if the zone 2 will have xlr connections, its likely to be far from the pre/pro (being a remote zone), so it would get the benefit of a balanced connection. Marco.
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Post by oscartheclimber on Jun 24, 2009 8:22:01 GMT -5
Did anyone mentioned if the zone 2 will have xlr connections, its likely to be far from the pre/pro (being a remote zone), so it would get the benefit of a balanced connection. Marco. RCA only from the preliminary specs. |
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Post by roadrunner on Jun 24, 2009 10:19:43 GMT -5
Did anyone mentioned if the zone 2 will have xlr connections, its likely to be far from the pre/pro (being a remote zone), so it would get the benefit of a balanced connection. Marco. I can see where this could hold true, but not nearly as much as you would initially think. Primarily, it could benefit those people who power their Zone 2 speakers with a separate power amp; and, only when the power amp is further than 10 meters (about 35 feet) from the pre/pro. Most of the Zone 2 set ups I have seen would NOT benefit much, if any, because the power amp for the Zone 2 speakers is either the same one used for the main area or is an amp within a few feet of the pre/pro. Normally, the distance to the Zone 2 speakers is not the issue, because the installation covers that distance with speaker wire between the power amp and the speakers... not with extra long interconnects. It might be nice if there were XLR output connectors on the pre/pro. It would allow those who have power amps with XLR inputs to take advantage of them; and, for the handfull of installations that actually have great distances between their pre/pro and the power amp used for Zone 2. For the vast majority of installations, there just is not a need for XLR amp output connectors -- there is no performance advantage. |
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spursfan
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Post by spursfan on Jun 24, 2009 10:39:02 GMT -5
Fronn,
for what its worth, I agree with your post. Not sure why so many people seemed to take it so personal.
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Post by SticknStones on Jun 24, 2009 11:11:56 GMT -5
Fronn, for what its worth, I agree with your post. Not sure why so many people seemed to take it so personal. +1 and it was a well written rebuttal! |
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Post by oscartheclimber on Jun 24, 2009 17:43:51 GMT -5
BTW, I thought the Trinnov was a Russian nuclear powered submarine? ;D I thought Trinnov was a Russian ballerina ;D |
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Post by jmilton on Jun 25, 2009 6:28:50 GMT -5
BTW, I thought the Trinnov was a Russian nuclear powered submarine? ;D I thought Trinnov was a Russian ballerina ;D  |
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Jun 25, 2009 7:55:53 GMT -5
I thought Trinnov was a Russian ballerina ;D That's just wrong. And scary. |
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Post by SticknStones on Jun 25, 2009 8:35:58 GMT -5
 Anna Pavlova - Russian Ballerina circa 1900 Umm, my wife is Russian actually in moscow today visiting family and she is petite, smart, beautiful, funny so I just want to put a little beauty into the equation! Also, please know that there is no offense taken...just good folks having a little fun! |
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Post by jmilton on Jun 25, 2009 9:29:49 GMT -5
Ummm....just to clarify: That was Mr. Trinnov. No offense meant toward anyone that is married to a beautiful Russian ballerina. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jun 25, 2009 10:40:24 GMT -5
Thanks for having the guts to say that - I was thinking it, but didn't have the cojones to post it I agree that Emo-Q will probably be excellent for taking care of basic room problems - setting levels and delays, EQing basic room modes and things like that. But the spatial effects from something like Trinnov are massively complex. Now, bear in mind that these sorts of corrections have more effect in some rooms compared to others. If you look past the couple of fanboy posts in the AVS thread (apparently from someone who has never heard Trinnov himself), I think there is still a lot of skepticism surrounding Trinnov. With Audyssey well established, I think people are hesitant to believe that Trinnov is quite as revolutionary as some people are claiming it to be. Another thing to note is that there are quite a few people that are more interested in the volume compensation features of the Audyssey systems (Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume). Those are technologies that a lot of people can benefit from, and the effects are easily discernable. While Emo-Q may not be as comprehensive or elaborate as Audyssey or Trinnov, the Emotiva processors will include Dolby Volume, which functions much the same as Audyssey's volume compensation features. I'm not kidding when I say that Dolby Volume is about the only reason my wife is letting me get a UMC-1 - being able to watch TV without going deaf from the commercials and being able to hear dialog in a movie without subsequently getting knocked off the couch with the explosions. The engineers who work for Emotiva, developing things like 'Emo-Q' are world class, top-of-the-heap people who have been, and are involved in developing for many differenct companies. My point is that what someone may think is a simple, cheap 'Emo-Q' maybe actually be something that was painstakingly developed for multiple companies, and not a low budget venture. Dan L. would not use an EQ system if he felt it was inferior. Thanks Dann, as a side note, should Trinnov (the idea of the 4 mics to get angles and stuff does seem interesting) prove to really be a "step above" I wonder if Emotiva can check on how much the licencing would cost and if it remotely fits in to he XMC price bracket. I would however love to see EmoQ being something as good as or better and not have to pay the royalties.  |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jun 25, 2009 10:43:25 GMT -5
I don`t expect EmoEq to be like trinnov just curious how some things may compar , I just need something good for a starting point then I can tweak from there ,hopefully something better then yamaha`s because yamahas is so inconsistent it`s hard to get a good starting point with out running it several times and hope there is 2 out of 5 runs that are close enough to use as a starting point + I hope it has something to save the settings +1 Running YPAO yesterday and with no changes in the room (nor settings) I was seeing >4db differences in levels .... odd. |
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Post by SticknStones on Jun 25, 2009 11:24:45 GMT -5
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Post by fronn on Jun 25, 2009 12:22:42 GMT -5
Quick initial comparison based on spec sheets of both... - XMC has Dolby Volume/Emo-Q while 997 has Trinnov - XMC has dual zones, 997 makes mention of multi-room capable, but who knows if that involves a second Reon for a completely separate video feed (I suspect not). - XMC has 8 hdmi in / 3 out, 997 likely doesn't have anything comparable - XMC has 24/192 dacs, seems 997 will have something similar (probably a wash - XMC Torino while 997 has Reon (Torino is at this point sort of an unknown quantity - previous chips from them have been mediocre, but this is supposed to be a new generation) - XMC has several 12v triggers while 997 only mentions it in the singular - XMC seems to have basic am/fm radio (assuming here - maybe it'll have HD Radio?) while 997 is XM ready or something - XMC has dual cirrus chip while 997 has dual TI - seems cirrus has the advantage, assuming it's not as bug ridden as we've seen elsewhere (though I can't imagine Emotiva would let that happen, as they are clearly willing to push back releases until they are ready, judging by UMC) Overall it seems they are both going to be very good, but unless Trinnov is a major selling point, I think XMC has the advantage - ~400 less for mostly comparable or better features (and sexier look -  ). I'm eager to hear reviews of both, but at this point I think my decision about waiting on an XMC will be the right one. Combine XMC with Trinnov and charge $1400 and I'd pre-order and pay in full right now. As it stands I'll just pre-order and pay when it ships |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 25, 2009 17:25:50 GMT -5
Trinnov or no Trinnov, and I want to apologize now for anyone taking offense to this, but Outlaw products are BUTT UGLY. Just an opinion, but I can't put a BUTT UGLY processor in my rack and have to look at it everyday, when I can put a processor that looks good and performs to my satisfaction in my rack. Again this is just my opinion, and we haven't seen the XMC-1 yet, but if its similar to the MMC-1 in looks, it will be way better to look at and won't be the red-headed step-child of pre/pro's.
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Post by SticknStones on Jun 25, 2009 19:08:17 GMT -5
That's too funny! I agree with you and I want the Emotiva team to knock it out of the park. I really like the whole ensemble look and praying for it to be just that good! I think the work that they are doing on the subs will be a game changer too!
Competition is a good thing though as it keeps everyone innovating!
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Please post comments BEFORE you start drinking.
). I'm eager to hear reviews of both, but at this point I think my decision about waiting on an XMC will be the right one. 
