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Post by jagman on Mar 23, 2009 3:12:26 GMT -5
I've been waiting for the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 for a couple years. I've been thinking about the Outlaw 997... but this XMC-1 seriously cought my attention. Four features that would make me choose it over the other two (in order of preference... and all have been previously mentioned in this thread)... 1. A user adjustable and defeatable digital hi-pass filter for the subwoofer output (e.g. 6Hz, 8Hz, 10Hz... 20Hz)... this is a must for me and should be relatively easy to program. I have an IB sub and would love to have a rumble filter set at 8Hz. 2. HD Radio 3. Dolby PLIIz 4. Multiple sub ouputs (so one can use multple subs without the need of a splitter) Great work guys! BTW, I love the fact that you have imited analog inputs/outputs in favor of 8 HDMI inputs, two same signal main room HDMI outputs (perfect for people who have flat screens for daylight hours and a retractable front projector for movies after dark) as well as an indipendant HDMI output for room 2. I consider this not only ideal, but way ahead of any competition. Bravo  . |
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Post by benzone on Mar 23, 2009 15:52:12 GMT -5
Not being able to search on 3 letter words (which found a bit strange)...
Does anyone know if the XMC is in any way THX compliant in terms of vid/aud set up features?
Thanks
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Post by flamingeye on Mar 23, 2009 16:38:26 GMT -5
Emotiva has said before that they met & even axseed the THX specifications they just don`t pay the big bucks for the certification which in turn saves us money & no they don`t have the THX modes like THX 2 ,music,moves etc....
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Post by drwily008 on Mar 25, 2009 19:40:18 GMT -5
Not being able to search on 3 letter words (which found a bit strange)... Does anyone know if the XMC is in any way THX compliant in terms of vid/aud set up features? Thanks Very true, I had a Pioneer reciever that was THX certified and my Emotive MMC-1 blows it out of the water. |
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Post by muzicianx on Mar 25, 2009 21:25:18 GMT -5
THX actually has audio post-processing capabilities within a pre/pro that "measurably simulate" the experience at a theater (i.e. reduction of highs because speakers are behind a screen, broader sense of non-directional surround sound, and EQ timbre matching for the signal). I have THX processing on my Krell, and it sounds good most of the time, but can be a bit flat on some recordings. I wonder if future THX processing will include people kicking my couch, spilling popcorn on me, and random talking and cell phone rings - then that would be the true theater experience (I totally respect you Tom Holman if you read this...).
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Post by flamingeye on Mar 25, 2009 22:21:24 GMT -5
That is why I don`t use THX it takes to much of the dynamics away it makes every thing sound flat
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Post by Spiky on Mar 27, 2009 15:43:09 GMT -5
Look for something called re-equalization or similar. You may find that many processors include mimicked THX processing without the logo.
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Post by benzone on Mar 27, 2009 17:53:31 GMT -5
Right. Like with most things AV one setting or another are completely subjective or rig dependent, THX settings are no exception. I use it mainly because the sound mix on the DVD is often the same as that used in the theaters where the higher frequencies can more sizzle than is tolerable for use in a smaller HT room. Such soundtracks can sound too bright when played back through a system set up for typical reproduction of music. When you select the THX mode on THX enabled systems, the Cinema Re-Equalization (as Spiky notes) is applied that attenuates these overly accentuated high frequencies. Perhaps why Flamingeye finds it too restrictive. I don’t always use the THX mode with my (soon to be former) reference processor, but it's nice to have it you want to use it. The reason for the question in the first place. Thanks for the thoughts...
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Post by mars on Mar 31, 2009 11:49:58 GMT -5
Is it fair to make an assumption that the "growing pains" that the UMC-1 is going through right now will pay dividends in time-to-market for the XMC-1? I'm hoping that the team is working on both units simultaneously but I don't know how thier business model works.
The most recent estimate for the UMC-1 release is around June now I guess. Is it expected that the XMC-1 should be a couple months behind? or should I just gear up for a Holiday '09 release?
I realize no one (except maybe Dann or Lonnie) knows the answer to this but I am curious. Just a topic for discussion...
btw...I am waiting for the XMC-1 regardless of time frame. ;D
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Post by bigred7078 on Mar 31, 2009 11:54:22 GMT -5
Hey Dann G, do you guys have any renderings of the XMC-1 yet?
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Post by muzicianx on Apr 7, 2009 23:17:43 GMT -5
Just an update on the post-processing - found out the XMC-1 will incorporate Dolby post-processing, which they say is THX post-processing and 'much more'. This makes me happy. I'm ready to send my money!!!
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Post by subgenius on Apr 8, 2009 9:55:43 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents. I recently got the Onkyo 885 preprocessor that is THX Ultra 2 certified... and so far all the THX presettings are pretty awful. As someone already mentioned they flatten out the sound, in a bad way. The Onkyo custom settings to a far better job with EQ. That said, in my mind there is no reason to go for a THX prepro for the THX processing. It doesn't add anything in my account. btw still in for an XMC... if I could only get those final specs  |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 22, 2009 1:11:40 GMT -5
Here's a whacky question: has anyone done a comparison between the DMC-1 and the XMC-1? I have the DMC-1/MPS-1 and I'm pondering the potential benefits of an upgrade to the XMC-1. I've ordered a Pioneer KRP-600M and will also be getting the Oppo BD83 Blu Ray player when it releases. This gives me two very good video scalers so the scaling capabilities of the XMC-1 wouldn't be a huge benefit. But the audio processing of the XMC-1 might be something that would offer a significant benefit ... Anyone have any insight on this?
Also, can anyone provide a thumbnail sketch of the differences between "bitstream" and LPCM? I'm assuming that "bitstream" is when the player just passes along a raw bitstream for the preprocessor to the channel decoding and LPCM involves the player doing the decoding and transmitting the decoded channels to the preprocessor but I haven't found a good place to research this kind of thing ...
Casey
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 22, 2009 9:39:05 GMT -5
Hhmmm, here are some of the resources that I've found in a quick search trying to answer my own question regarding what "bitstream" versus "PCM" versus "PCM" are: forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/520150 forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23539 answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081231014328AAkab0CSo I think I understand the decoding situation from the above. Please feel free to jump in and tell me I'm headed down the wrong track! So this gets us back to the DMC-1 versus the XMC-1 issue: what would be the advantages of running my audio signals from the Oppo BD83 Blu Ray player (when it's available) through the XMC-1 versus my present DMC-1? It sounds like I could set the Oppo to "bitstream" and forget it, letting the XMC-1 handle everything. On the other hand, with the DMC-1 since it can't handle some of the audio formats (say Dolby TrueHD), I'd need to have the Oppo do the decoding and pass the information to the DMC-1 via PCM or LPCM. Right? Is there some kind of automatic protocol handshake that goes on between a source and sink with standard digital (SPDIF) or would this have to be manually selected on the Oppo when I played, say, Dolby TrueHD? (I know that HDMI does have a handshake but there are so many problems reported on HDMI that I'm seriously thinking of just running an HDMI straight betwen my [eventual] Oppo BD83 and the Pioneer KRP-600M and then using separate digital audio connections to the preprocessor. Which is of course my only option with the DMC-1.) Casey |
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Post by jasona on Apr 22, 2009 10:39:13 GMT -5
Couple of things...
The XMC-1 is still a concept and who knows if they've even built a prototype yet. So noone here has heard one, and the only people who possibly could have work at Emotiva. However, we've had comments about the UMC-1 from the folks at Emotiva that claim it sounds as good or maybe even better than the MMC-1 (which is pretty similar to the DMC-1). The XMC-1 is supposed to have upgraded audio paths, so there's a chance the XMC-1 could sound better than the DMC... although the DMC is supposed to be pretty good, so I'm not sure HOW MUCH better the XMC would be.
I suspect that the bigger differences between the DMC and XMC will be related to features. The XMC will add things like video processing, auto eq, HD codecs, Dolby Volume, and more advanced zone two controls. The thing to note regarding the HD codecs is that the DMC would only be able to accept those via the 7.1 analog inputs. It has no way of receiving the high bitrate audio from DD+, DD True HD or DTS HD/MA. Those can ONLY be passed via HDMI (either as LPCM or bitstreamed). The BD-83 can decode the HD audio to it's 7.1 analog outputs, which could be fed into the DMC. The alternative would be do use an optical or coax run to the DMC, however that will only allow you to receive the "core" standard DD or DTS audio - it won't be the higher resolution formats - SPDIF simply doesn't have the bandwidth to pass the high bitrate data.
On a final note, your understanding of LPCM vs Bitstream are pretty much correct. If you have the player do the decoding, it will send out LPCM and any HDMI 1.1 or higher processor will be able to read and use the data. If you select Bitstream in the player, it won't do any decoding, and just pipe the audio out to the processor, which is then responsible for decoding. In theory there really shouldn't be any audible differences between LPCM and Bitstream, assuming the decoding algorithms are implemented correctly. On some of the early BD players, not all of the HD audio formats could be decoded in the player (typically DTS MA), and I think some didn't even include the ability AT ALL for internal decoding, forcing bitstream output only. However, the Oppo will internally decode everything, and I suspect that pretty much all BD players from here on out will include full internal decoding.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 29, 2009 9:25:39 GMT -5
Hhmmm, so it sounds like I should be able to do the following in my [soon to be] current setup: - Run an HDMI or component cable from the Oppo BD83 to the Pioneer KRP-600M.
- Run a digital audio cable from the BD83 to the Emotiva DMC-1 for handling most audio.
- Run 7.1 analog audio cables from the BD83 to the DMC-1 for Dolby TrueHD and other audio formats that the DMC-1 can't handle.
I'm assuming that the BD83 wouldn't present any signal on the digital audio cable for Dolby TrueHD and similar audio signals which have no encoding for S/PDIF. Thus the DMC-1 would use the presented analog signals. What happens for other audio formats where the BD83 could send both digital and analog signals? Would the DMC-1 prioritize using one over the other? I've read through the DMC-1 manual and it's not clear what would happen in this case. Also, the manual seems to imply that if an analog 7.1 signal is being used that it can't be routed to Zone 2, which is perfectly fine and sensible, but if the 7.1 signal takes priority over the digital audio then I'd never be able to play a CD in my Zone 2 (front porch in my case). Casey |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 29, 2009 10:48:08 GMT -5
I'm assuming that the BD83 wouldn't present any signal on the digital audio cable for Dolby TrueHD and similar audio signals which have no encoding for S/PDIF. Casey 2ch downmixed audio is always present when the HD audio formats are used. Why not just run hdmi to the UMC and set the player to bitstream? Keeps it simple and the UMC will just handle all of the audio duties including 2nd zone. The only thing you lose is that when using 2nd audio material on HD disks, the player will only output a DTS or DD 5.1 stream. Not that big of a deal IMO since you are probably not doing any critical listening with 2nd audio engaged. (example: director comments). |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 29, 2009 21:28:25 GMT -5
I'm assuming that the BD83 wouldn't present any signal on the digital audio cable for Dolby TrueHD and similar audio signals which have no encoding for S/PDIF. Casey 2ch downmixed audio is always present when the HD audio formats are used. Why not just run hdmi to the UMC and set the player to bitstream? Keeps it simple and the UMC will just handle all of the audio duties including 2nd zone. The only thing you lose is that when using 2nd audio material on HD disks, the player will only output a DTS or DD 5.1 stream. Not that big of a deal IMO since you are probably not doing any critical listening with 2nd audio engaged. (example: director comments). The problem is that I currently have a DMC-1/MPS-1 and I'm running balanced interconnects between the DMC-1 and MPS-1. Going for a UMC sounds like a step in the wrong direction -- especially since my real "need" is audio seeing as the BD83 is going to have kick-ass video scaling. But back to one of your points: you said that "2ch downmixed audio is always present when the HD audio formats are used." I assume that this is only the case when something like Dolby TrueHD is being presented. Other 5.1 channel formats can go across the S/PIDF digital audio link, right? Sorry for being a bozo on this. I really need to find a good reference on all of the links and their supported protocols. Casey |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 30, 2009 1:45:30 GMT -5
So I think the right way for me to handle the new Oppo BD83 is to run 5.1 analog audio to the DMC-1 and an HDMI directly to the Pioneer KRP-600M. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the DMC's speaker level controls will be in effect to balance the output levels of all the speakers ...
Casey
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Apr 30, 2009 6:37:41 GMT -5
So I think the right way for me to handle the new Oppo BD83 is to run 5.1 analog audio to the DMC-1 and an HDMI directly to the Pioneer KRP-600M. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the DMC's speaker level controls will be in effect to balance the output levels of all the speakers ... Casey If not, then the speaker trim settings on the BDP-83 should handle that for you. |
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