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Post by copperpipe on Jan 13, 2016 17:59:40 GMT -5
Everything is made in china, including the computer you're using and the keyboard you're typing on and the smartphone in your pocket. Made in China is just as helpful as saying made in America / Canada / Germany / XYZ. The junk (as well as the great stuff) can be found everywhere.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 13, 2016 18:00:00 GMT -5
Yes, I don't know this 100% for sure, but I think the "Made In America" thing is a bit of a misnomer. I think it should be "Assembled In America," which is different.
Of course someone in-the-know please correct me if I'm wrong.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 13, 2016 18:08:07 GMT -5
Yes, I don't know this 100% for sure, but I think the "Made In America" thing is a bit of a misnomer. I think it should be "Assembled In America," which is different. Of course someone in-the-know please correct me if I'm wrong. If you look across most "made in America" products, almost nothing is 100% made in America. Take a look at us content is cars "made in america" for example. As for this particular card, I have no idea where it is made. As for the XMC overall, I am sure some parts/subassemblies are from outside the US, some are from the US, and the whole thing is assembled here. Mark |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 13, 2016 18:12:51 GMT -5
Yes, I don't know this 100% for sure, but I think the "Made In America" thing is a bit of a misnomer. I think it should be "Assembled In America," which is different. Of course someone in-the-know please correct me if I'm wrong. If you look across most "made in America" products, almost nothing is 100% made in America. Take a look at us content is cars "made in america" for example. As for this particular card, I have no idea where it is made. As for the XMC overall, I am sure some parts/subassemblies are from outside the US, some are from the US, and the whole thing is assembled here. Mark That's why I said it's a misnomer, because it's said improperly by every manufacturer, not just Emotiva. Still doesn't make it right though. |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 13, 2016 18:22:11 GMT -5
If you look across most "made in America" products, almost nothing is 100% made in America. Take a look at us content is cars "made in america" for example. As for this particular card, I have no idea where it is made. As for the XMC overall, I am sure some parts/subassemblies are from outside the US, some are from the US, and the whole thing is assembled here. Mark That's why I said it's a misnomer, because it's said improperly by every manufacturer, not just Emotiva. Still doesn't make it right though. I once argued this point with a market vendor over a T-shirt that purported to be "Made in America". It was clearly a fake "brand name" item. When I didn't buy despite his very persuasive approach, he asked "Why wouldn't you want this for only $10?". My response: "$10 is too much for a label made in America". |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 13, 2016 19:51:01 GMT -5
Just to reiterate my previous post; Most apple fanbois ('scuse me, customers) absolutely love the hardware, and I do to; it's well designed, looks nice, and works great. I'm not 100% sure on the apple computers, but foxconn (china) makes the IPhone, recent BlackBerry's etc., all highly rated and sought after by their respective fans.
It's not the country, it's the specs, tolerances, and how much money the company is willing to put into their product.
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Post by dwaleke on Jan 14, 2016 11:27:34 GMT -5
In addition, it is curious to note that a few posts back someone had a shot of what was purported to be the "new board". Curious to see that it has "Jade Design" screened on the PCB. Given the attention given to the US-based manufacturing for the XMC, and CORRECTLY SO, does that mean that the new HDMI board is made in China rather than the US? Majority of electronic components are made in China. Don't let manufactured in Tennessee fool you. The components ship from China (or other overseas locations) to the US and then Emotiva does some (or all) assembly there. The new boards and existing boards are not that different in this regard. At least assembly is back in the US. EDIT: looks like this has been covered already. Also XMC-1 HDMI components are manufactured in California - not China. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 14, 2016 11:31:32 GMT -5
Yes, Big Dan actually uses the proper phrasing in his new videos where he uses the word "assembled" in the USA.
I would like to see them change their official advertising tag line to this instead of "made in the USA" but I'm sure most will find that trivial. No worries.
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 14, 2016 14:34:50 GMT -5
Oh boy, let's talk semantics why don't we! Do you think when it's written "made in China" that it's made exclusively in China? First of all, maybe the device was conceived in USA or EU. Second, for example chips are usually made in Taiwan. Reality is that most things are made in multiple countries this age. Deal with it.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 14, 2016 14:50:45 GMT -5
Oh boy, let's talk semantics why don't we! This from the same guy who has gone to ridiculous half millimeter details and measuring for his home theater room.  I can deal with it just fine. But it doesn't change the fact that it is a misnomer to say "made" vs "assembled." I realize in this day and age that parts come from all over the place. Cars are a good example. There are a lot of Japanese auto makers that build cars in the U.S.A. They don't say "made" in the U.S.A., they say "assembled" or possibly "built" in the U.S.A. Those are not misnomers. The U.S. automakers don't say anything because anything they say would bring to light that a lot of their parts come from other countries, or even worse, that some of their cars aren't even assembled in the U.S. Foreign auto makers use it as a selling badge of honor here in this country, but they don't say "made". People would laugh at them for doing so. |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 14, 2016 15:00:08 GMT -5
I think what we're trying to say is that BOTH "made" and "assembled" in XYZ is pretty silly these days. Who cares? Does the product work as intended, is it backed by a great warranty, and is it sold by a company who knows what they're doing? Check, check, check; purchase. Don't sweat the "made", "assembled", "designed", conceived", "dreamt" label because that has no meaning in todays world other than to stroke one's nationalistic pride.
The only thing "made" in our own countries these days are raw materials.
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Post by sycraft on Jan 14, 2016 15:08:05 GMT -5
Everything is made in china, including the computer you're using and the keyboard you're typing on and the smartphone in your pocket. No, actually, a lot of it isn't. Computers are very multi-national. Your CPU was fabricated in the US or EU, or occasionally Israel, those are the only places that Intel and AMD have fabs that do CPUs. You can then look at it and see where it was packaged and tested, usually the US, Costa Rica, or Ireland. The power supply was made in China, nobody but the Chinese make SMPS units. However the capacitors in that were probably made in Japan if it is a quality unit, that's where most quality caps come from. The memory depends on the brand, Germany is common, Korea is common, and the US is common though there are others. Your (magnetic) HDD was made in Thailand, Singapore, or Malaysia, though these days it is almost exclusively Thailand. Your SSD varies by brand, if it is Samsung the unit was made in Korea and the flash in Korea or the US. Your monitor was made in China, however depending on the brand the panel was made in either China or Korea. Your dedicated GPU was made in Taiwan, all AMD and nVidia cards are fabbed there by one company (TSMC). The final computer itself, depends on the brand. If Dell, Mexico is usually where it was assembled (if you are in North America). You find that stuff gets made all over the world, and that various countries specialize in various things so some stuff you really can only get from one or two places. The US actually produces a lot of electronics, just not as often the final assembly. But things like semiconductor fabrication are huge in the US. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 14, 2016 15:11:35 GMT -5
I think what we're trying to say is that BOTH "made" and "assembled" in XYZ is pretty silly these days. Who cares? Does the product work as intended, is it backed by a great warranty, and is it sold by a company who knows what they're doing? Check, check, check; purchase. Don't sweat the "made", "assembled", "designed", conceived", "dreamt" label because that has no meaning in todays world other than to stroke one's nationalistic pride. The only thing "made" in our own countries these days are raw materials. Well let me tell you, Emotiva certainly cares. They are using it as a major selling tool for the XMC-1. It's even in bold type in their magazine adds. So while you may not find it of any importance, Emotiva believes there are many people out there that will feel otherwise. I'm with Emotiva 100% on this one. |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 14, 2016 15:19:35 GMT -5
Everything is made in china, including the computer you're using and the keyboard you're typing on and the smartphone in your pocket. No, actually, a lot of it isn't. Computers are very multi-national. Your CPU was fabricated in the US or EU, or occasionally Israel, those are the only places that Intel and AMD have fabs that do CPUs. You can then look at it and see where it was packaged and tested, usually the US, Costa Rica, or Ireland. The power supply was made in China, nobody but the Chinese make SMPS units. However the capacitors in that were probably made in Japan if it is a quality unit, that's where most quality caps come from. The memory depends on the brand, Germany is common, Korea is common, and the US is common though there are others. Your (magnetic) HDD was made in Thailand, Singapore, or Malaysia, though these days it is almost exclusively Thailand. Your SSD varies by brand, if it is Samsung the unit was made in Korea and the flash in Korea or the US. Your monitor was made in China, however depending on the brand the panel was made in either China or Korea. Your dedicated GPU was made in Taiwan, all AMD and nVidia cards are fabbed there by one company (TSMC). The final computer itself, depends on the brand. If Dell, Mexico is usually where it was assembled (if you are in North America). You find that stuff gets made all over the world, and that various countries specialize in various things so some stuff you really can only get from one or two places. The US actually produces a lot of electronics, just not as often the final assembly. But things like semiconductor fabrication are huge in the US. Yeah I know, "Everything" was an exaggeration, just like in most cases where that word is used. I'm aware that the rest of the world outside China has an economy and trades with each other, the point was to stop worrying about whether something is made in China or not since you'd be surprised at the goods we value highly but are either made, or made from parts, inside china. |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 14, 2016 15:43:49 GMT -5
I think what we're trying to say is that BOTH "made" and "assembled" in XYZ is pretty silly these days. Who cares? Does the product work as intended, is it backed by a great warranty, and is it sold by a company who knows what they're doing? Check, check, check; purchase. Don't sweat the "made", "assembled", "designed", conceived", "dreamt" label because that has no meaning in todays world other than to stroke one's nationalistic pride. The only thing "made" in our own countries these days are raw materials. Well let me tell you, Emotiva certainly cares. They are using it as a major selling tool for the XMC-1. It's even in bold type in their magazine adds. So while you may not find it of any importance, Emotiva believes there are many people out there that will feel otherwise. I'm with Emotiva 100% on this one. Well to be honest, I find some of the marketing coming out of Emotiva a little confusing. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jan 14, 2016 15:56:46 GMT -5
In addition, it is curious to note that a few posts back someone had a shot of what was purported to be the "new board". Curious to see that it has "Jade Design" screened on the PCB. Given the attention given to the US-based manufacturing for the XMC, and CORRECTLY SO, does that mean that the new HDMI board is made in China rather than the US? Majority of electronic components are made in China. Don't let manufactured in Tennessee fool you. The components ship from China (or other overseas locations) to the US and then Emotiva does some (or all) assembly there. The new boards and existing boards are not that different in this regard. At least assembly is back in the US. EDIT: looks like this has been covered already. We don't actually know where the CCAs (circuit card assemblies) are manufactured. They could be fabricated by a subcontractor in the US or an off- shore subcontractor. Once the pick and place SMT (surface mount) machine is programmed (by an engineer) and the reels of SMT parts are loaded (by a factory worker), there is very little labor left in the fab process. That's the whole rationale for designing with SMT parts. So US manufacturing in this case can be competitive. Russ |
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Post by minthral on Jan 15, 2016 0:29:25 GMT -5
I used to work for manufacturing company (long time ago). Reason stuff is made in China is because (partly due to US investment) their technology and facilities are world class. I actually want my electronics made in China/Japan/Malaysia because they WILL do better job. Its not because of the people, its more about the technology doing the work. There's a reason most tech is made in China...and that they have a profound effect in (dropping) stock prices. Funny thing is, this was all predicted in the 1990's and no one cared...
That said, there is definitely something to be said about 'made in America'...however, that doesn't mean all the capacitors and PCB was made here...actually was shipped from China and then assembled in the states. My Porsche was assembled in Stuttgart...but the xenon headlights say 'made in Japan.'
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Post by millst on Jan 15, 2016 11:15:47 GMT -5
No wonder this circuit failed..it says "Made in Japan."
What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.
-tm
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 15, 2016 13:37:05 GMT -5
Oh boy, let's talk semantics why don't we! This from the same guy who has gone to ridiculous half millimeter details and measuring for his home theater room. Touché!  Though any decent audiophile knows it's the room (besides the speakers) that counts most. 10x more than electronics! |
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Post by KeithL on Jan 15, 2016 14:36:45 GMT -5
The problem is that "the legal guys" don't look at things like this the same way we do. If you leave your front door unlocked, and someone walks in, then he's guilty of "trespassing"; if you lock it, and he forces or picks the lock, then he's guilty of "breaking and entering" - which is a much more serious crime with much more serious penalties. And, for that matter, at least where I live, if I were to shoot someone who had broken into my house, it would be considered justified; but the argument would be somewhat less certain if he or she had just wandered in through my unlocked door (where they could claim it was accidental). And, in none of these cases does the quality of the door lock, or whether it really would stop a determined ten year old, matter. In either case, I don't hear many people suggesting that door locks are silly, or that we should all leave our doors open, simply because they won't even slow down a determined burglar. Likewise, by using encryption, and so forcing you to break that encryption in order to make a copy, they've ensured that they can associate significant penalties with copying. Specifically, laws like the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act), which is honored in much of the world, explicitly states that removing copy protection is illegal... and the penalties for doing so often far exceed the actual penalties for copyright infringement or illegal copying. By defining the act of making the copy as illegal, they can charge you with a crime for doing so, without having to actually prove that you gave or sold a copy to someone. (They lost the battle when it comes to your being legally allowed to make a backup; but they're altered the situation to where you can't make that legal backup without breaking a different law; which leads to the same result.) So, from the point of view of "the other side", there may be a gray area about your making copies for your own backup use, and how to prove whether you might give one of those copies to a friend (which would be illegal).... but, by decrypting the content, you have committed a crime for which you can be prosecuted. It's even more subtle than that; by making it illegal for you to remove the encryption, they have prevented you from making a copy as a backup - then possibly giving that copy to your friend later. (And, yes, this does happen. I've known many people who admitted to buying a CD, ripping it onto their computer, then either selling it or giving it to a friend - and NOT destroying their copy once they no longer owned the original. Note that the law does include the requirement that, if you sell or give away the original, you are legally required to delete your backup copy. This is the sort of "casual copying" that simply preventing you from making even a legitimate copy prevents or reduces. And, regardless of how easy the copy protection is to remove, just like forcing someone to buy a lock pick to get into your house discourages at least some breakins, forcing someone to deliberately purchase an illegal software program to remove the encryption does in fact discourage some video and software piracy. ) Just to be clear, I agree with you that the annoyance of HDCP far exceeds the value, and I think it's a waste of everybody's time and effort...... However, I will admit that it does provide some value in terms of copy protection. It's not exactly silly - but that depends on how you look at it. It's silly because it doesn't stop piracy but it does screw with legit uses. The amount of times I've encountered flickering, dropouts, and coloured static in classroom/conference room presentation systems and it has traced back to issues with HDCP handshake is far too many. Likewise, my computer won't play Blu-rays, despite having everything HDCP protected, because of the way I have to have the GPU split off the video to run my audio on HDMI and monitor on DisplayPort. Never mind just wanting to record something for later viewing (something which the courts have ruled to be explicitly legal). If they want to have some simple technology to prevent something "casual" then fine, I can live with something like SCMS for S/PDIF I guess. However going nuts with the encryption is silly. It doesn't help, and it cannot help, prevent piracy. The issue is simply that the device does have the decryption key, it has to for it to work, and people can and will attack that and get the key. I mean look at Blu-ray: Two different systems, AACS and BD-J, which are both very complex and were supposed to be "secure for more than 20 years", both of which are thoroughly bypassed. They haven't been cracked in the cryptographic sense, but it doesn't matter because they can be bypassed in various ways and there's software out there which does it no problem. There is no need for HDCP 2.2, it just makes things more difficult for compatibility. The original HDCP already works to keep anyone casual from doing anything and the pirates have no problem getting around it in other ways. |
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