KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 26, 2015 15:44:09 GMT -5
I think it's all a matter of perspective..... We really like to avoid name dropping, but, as someone has already pointed out, if you'd purchased a Krell Foundation for about six grand, partly with the expectation of upgrading it to HDMI 2.0, you would now have the option of paying MORE THAN THE PRICE OF A NEW XMC-1 WITH THE HDMO 2.0 UPGRADE - JUST TO UPGRADE YOUR KRELL TO HDMI 2.0. (So, let's see how that works out...... two and a half XMC-1's, just for the basic unit, then another XMC-1, just for the upgrade... and still enough extra to buy a couple of real nice steak dinners. Oh, yeah... and no Dirac either. I know which looks like a lot better deal to me  . And, if you really want the cheapest game in town, with the most features, for the lowest price, you can get a "name brand" AVR - with Atmos - for $299. But, if that was your biggest priority, then I'm guessing you wouldn't be here to begin with; right?) dmraupp thanks for the link. So, the price they are quoting must be their cost then, adding into it the factors Rickie mentions. Seems reasonable to me actually. For perspective, I also like this from Andrew Robinson: Great perspective...and I also recall many doubting they would ever offer the board. Mark Since a lot of units were purchased using a 40% discount card.The cost at that time was $1220.00 shipped.The "cost"of this upgrade board is $299.00 regardless if I install it or have Emotiva install it.That makes the upgrade board equal to about 25% of the cost of the entire XMC-1 initial cost.That does not even include the cost of shipping the XMC-1 to Emotiva to install the board.I would have to insure the package for what $2500.00?That upgrade gets pricey real fast. |
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Post by skippy1977 on Dec 26, 2015 16:14:35 GMT -5
If one eventually buys a 4k display and 4k Ultra HD player that will hopefully have two HDMI outputs would the need of the updated HDMI really be needed? Connect one HDMI output to your display (video) and one to the XMC-1 (audio) and you'll be all set. Or am I missing something here?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 16:22:37 GMT -5
If one eventually buys a 4k display and 4k Ultra HD player that will hopefully have two HDMI outputs would the need of the updated HDMI really be needed? Connect one HDMI output to your display (video) and one to the XMC-1 (audio) and you'll be all set. Or am I missing something here? The idea of a processor is to use it as the "hub" and let it do the switching. What you are suggesting is a workaround. |
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Post by Percussionista on Dec 26, 2015 17:49:38 GMT -5
If one eventually buys a 4k display and 4k Ultra HD player that will hopefully have two HDMI outputs would the need of the updated HDMI really be needed? Connect one HDMI output to your display (video) and one to the XMC-1 (audio) and you'll be all set. Or am I missing something here? The idea of a processor is to use it as the "hub" and let it do the switching. What you are suggesting is a workaround. Well there is a catch... if you use this "workaround" then the video doesn't flow through the processor so none of its menus will be displayed on the TV. Personally I've found that to be non-fun ;-) Mind you, folks like Oppo seem to like one to use their two HDMI outs this way, but they aren't looking at the issue of AVP menus. I have an Oppo 103 but I only use one HDMI out as per bmoney, using the processor (UMC-200 for now) as the master A/V switch. Nevertheless, if you can stand only using the AVP's menus on the front panel, even if only for a while, you can delay upgrading everything at once. |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 26, 2015 18:38:09 GMT -5
Wait hold up. I think "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost" is an interesting choice of words. For instance lots of people might assume at our cost avaialbe to us means they're going to get it free. That's what it sounds like to me. The other one is that the upgrade will be provided at the cost it was to provide it no profit. Now if anybody thinks it costs $300 to buy an HDMI 2 board and install it and ship it, I have a bridge to sell you.  It's an input board. I doubt it costs $30 if that (in parts not R&D etc). Now the third way to intepret it is I think what is the reality. The XMC-1 is designed to be upgraded. Providing the OPTION of an HDMI 2 board to existing users is where Emotiva does it at their cost (likely at a profit). Instead of you know...not doing so and making evreybod buy the NEW XMC-1 with HDMI 2 board. So here there is some real cost. The assembly people have to be trained and be made available to install HDMI boards. The HDMI boards have to be designed to be user replaceable. Man power is taken to pack and ship these boards. Answering customer service inquiries also costs money. Now having said all that. This literally was one of the big advertised selling points of the XMC-1. So this not a bonus but fulfilling a product promise (to keep it current). |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 26, 2015 19:20:24 GMT -5
Wait hold up. I think "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost" is an interesting choice of words. For instance lots of people might assume at our cost avaialbe to us means they're going to get it free. That's what it sounds like to me So, you are telling me that if I told you I had bought a car, and you said.."gee, I like it...can I have it?", and if I answered "sure, at my cost!", that you would assume I would give it to you for free? I have told many people I would sell something to me at my cost,and never once did I mean" free" and nor did anyone I dealt with assume that is what I meant. And,I have had others make the same deal for me...never assumed they meant free. I just don't see how anyone could come to the "free" conclusion Mark |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 26, 2015 20:02:29 GMT -5
Wait hold up. I think "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost" is an interesting choice of words. For instance lots of people might assume at our cost avaialbe to us means they're going to get it free. That's what it sounds like to me So, you are telling me that if I told you I had bought a car, and you said.."gee, I like it...can I have it?", and if I answered "sure, at my cost!", that you would assume I would give it to you for free? Yes I think that would be what most people would assume.... |
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Post by foggy1956 on Dec 26, 2015 20:25:37 GMT -5
Wait hold up. I think "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost" is an interesting choice of words. For instance lots of people might assume at our cost avaialbe to us means they're going to get it free. That's what it sounds like to me. The other one is that the upgrade will be provided at the cost it was to provide it no profit. Now if anybody thinks it costs $300 to buy an HDMI 2 board and install it and ship it, I have a bridge to sell you. It's an input board. I doubt it costs $30 if that (in parts not R&D etc). Now the third way to intepret it is I think what is the reality. The XMC-1 is designed to be upgraded. Providing the OPTION of an HDMI 2 board to existing users is where Emotiva does it at their cost (likely at a profit). Instead of you know...not doing so and making evreybod buy the NEW XMC-1 with HDMI 2 board. So here there is some real cost. The assembly people have to be trained and be made available to install HDMI boards. The HDMI boards have to be designed to be user replaceable. Man power is taken to pack and ship these boards. Answering customer service inquiries also costs money. Now having said all that. This literally was one of the big advertised selling points of the XMC-1. So this not a bonus but fulfilling a product promise (to keep it current). You forgot the cost of annual bonuses as well |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 26, 2015 20:26:51 GMT -5
Yes especially if you were told you were getting a car and then got a station wagon because I looked at the station wagon from two blocks down and thought it looked like a car. And then later I told you you're getting the car at my cost. So yes I think that would be what most people would assume.... I think you are stretching it a bit...a lot actually. So...personally, if it were me, I would drop this line of "free" as being in any way a valid expectation. Your argument of "at cost" meaning for the price of parts also holds no water for me. If I sold you a car "at my cost" and told you that when I bought it, it needed a new engine and that I had paid someone to put a new one in,the "at cost" price would include what I paid, the parts for the new engine, the labor and taxes for the new engine, and any other costs I had incurred. Any less would be a "loss to me", not " my cost". As for your last argument that all these things + profit would be included,unless we get into Emotiva's books, we will never know if they are making a penny of profit from retrofitting the boards as they promise. As I look at the cost of typical PC parts, add in 1-way shipping, and some bench time installing the board and testing out my XMC, $299 is reasonable. So, I won't quibble over whether the cost should be $99, $199, or $299. I am happy Emotiva is keeping its promise to provide the capability to upgrade. Recall how many questioned whether they would even do that? Recall all the stories of other gear from other makers that was future proof due to upgradability that never happened? I do...so, I will just be happy. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 26, 2015 20:28:23 GMT -5
So, you are telling me that if I told you I had bought a car, and you said.."gee, I like it...can I have it?", and if I answered "sure, at my cost!", that you would assume I would give it to you for free? Yes I think that would be what most people would assume.... Wow...start a poll with that exact question and see what the results are! Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 26, 2015 20:30:13 GMT -5
garbulky I see you deleted what I had quoted while I was typing. Standing down from the car/station wagon analogy?
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Post by garbulky on Dec 26, 2015 21:01:28 GMT -5
garbulky I see you deleted what I had quoted while I was typing. Standing down from the car/station wagon analogy? Not at all. I think the analogy is accurate and I think at my cost means it will cost the person saying at my cost. Not at my cost and then you will pay me for it. I deleted my post because I figured it was only polite to do so. I don't purposely start fires So I figured I would just answer your question which is yeah I read it as free. |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 26, 2015 21:06:00 GMT -5
So, you are telling me that if I told you I had bought a car, and you said.."gee, I like it...can I have it?", and if I answered "sure, at my cost!", that you would assume I would give it to you for free? Yes I think that would be what most people would assume.... Well now if companies operated like that, how long do you think they'd be around to continue to provide you with stuff "at cost" (i.e., "free" based on how you define it) and be around to service it? No company can continue to operate at a loss. Only the U.S. Government can continue operating at a loss and that's because they just increase taxes to pay for it all -- which then means it has a cost, that cost being borne by us. If private companies did the same thing they'd be out of business in no time. Going back to Mark's example of the station wagon... let's say I was over your house and accidentally knocked over a vase. When I offer to pay for it, you tell me to just reimburse you for your "cost." I smile and say thank you as I don't have to pay you anything. You just told me I could reimburse you for it at your cost and so I assume that means it is free for me. Does that sound right? Why would the XMC-1 upgrade be any different? [edit] - okay, I just read what you posted while I was typing this. I am assuming you thought the upgrade was included in YOUR own cost as a purchaser, not Emo's cost of doing the upgrade. I get it, but that makes no sense because a company can't continue providing "free" upgrades on anything and stay in business unless they build it into the original price. If that is what Dan meant then he would have said all future upgrades are included with the original purchase price of the XMC-1. |
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Post by socketman on Dec 26, 2015 21:09:01 GMT -5
I would like to share my 2 cents. Why is it they will install the board and ship it back for 299 then those of us who live to far away and are capable of installing it ourselves should get the board itself at a reduced cost. There are plenty of international customers that fall into this category.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 26, 2015 21:13:22 GMT -5
garbulky I see you deleted what I had quoted while I was typing. Standing down from the car/station wagon analogy? Not at all. I think the analogy is accurate and I think at my cost means it will cost the person saying at my cost. Not at my cost and then you will pay me for it. I deleted my post because I figured it was only polite to do so. I don't purposely start fires So I figured I would just answer your question which is yeah I read it as free. You appear to be confusing the terms "at my cost" (which means I, as the seller, will charge you what it cost me for the item I plan to sell you) with "at my expense" (which means I, as the seller, shall bear all expenses associated with providing you something and you owe me nothing). See the difference? Mark |
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Post by diablo561 on Dec 26, 2015 21:45:39 GMT -5
It would seem to me that if 299.00 is "cost" then it should add more than that amount for new purchases, as cost is "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost"
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 26, 2015 21:52:11 GMT -5
I would like to share my 2 cents. Why is it they will install the board and ship it back for 299 then those of us who live to far away and are capable of installing it ourselves should get the board itself at a reduced cost. There are plenty of international customers that fall into this category. While I didn't hear in the podcast that there would be two different prices(sending the XMC-1 in or DIY), didn't Dan say in the podcast that they'd accommodate those that insisted doing "DIY"? |
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Post by brutiarti on Dec 26, 2015 21:59:38 GMT -5
I would like to share my 2 cents. Why is it they will install the board and ship it back for 299 then those of us who live to far away and are capable of installing it ourselves should get the board itself at a reduced cost. There are plenty of international customers that fall into this category. Probably it whoould be $299 plus the international real cost shipping. Fair to everybody IMO |
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Post by brutiarti on Dec 26, 2015 22:02:21 GMT -5
It would seem to me that if 299.00 is "cost" then it should add more than that amount for new purchases, as cost is "available to existing XMC-1 customers at our cost" I really doubt that at the selling price of 2K at losing money. IMO |
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Post by skippy1977 on Dec 26, 2015 22:09:53 GMT -5
If one eventually buys a 4k display and 4k Ultra HD player that will hopefully have two HDMI outputs would the need of the updated HDMI really be needed? Connect one HDMI output to your display (video) and one to the XMC-1 (audio) and you'll be all set. Or am I missing something here? The idea of a processor is to use it as the "hub" and let it do the switching. What you are suggesting is a workaround. Of course it's a work around. At least there is that option for those that don't want to do the HDMI board upgrade. |
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dmraupp thanks for the link. So, the price they are quoting must be their cost then, adding into it the factors Rickie mentions. Seems reasonable to me actually.
. And, if you really want the cheapest game in town, with the most features, for the lowest price, you can get a "name brand" AVR - with Atmos - for $299. But, if that was your biggest priority, then I'm guessing you wouldn't be here to begin with; right?)
It's an input board. I doubt it costs $30 if that (in parts not R&D etc). 
