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Post by thrasher on Jan 27, 2016 17:42:01 GMT -5
Ultimately, I wish there was a company or someone closer to me that could simply come and figure this out for me. My patience are a bit thin over the setup of all of this and I need an EASY button...
Emotiva XPA5, UMC200, DynAudio 12" sub, Klipsch KLF30's and rear Klipsch Satellite speakers...
When I heard the Klipsch KLF30's before buying them, they were hooked to an older 4 channel Rotel amp that was being ran as a 2 channel. He was running an older Denon AV. The amount of bass that was coming from the KLF's was amazing. I was sold. I have since hooked all of my pieces up, done the Emo EQ, plus tweaked the db's, adjusted the low end hz, changed the speaker size on the mains from Large to Small, adjusted the crossovers ranging from 40-80, re ran Emo EQ and set everything yet again... This setup will go painfully loud, but the bass is only really coming from the sub. There isn't hardly any air moving from the KLF's, as there should be.
And, to answer the common question, NO the speakers are not out of phase. The system doesn't sound "bad" by any means, but I am not blown away as I was when I demo'd them. I know these mains should have enough bass that I shouldn't even really need to be running the sub.
Anyone have any fool proof idea on how to get this system pumping? Or, anyone close to zip code 98248?
Thank you for any help
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Post by mshump on Jan 27, 2016 17:54:31 GMT -5
My first suggestion would be to disconnect the sub, set the mains to large, put it into 2 channel and see if there is bass.
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Post by vneal on Jan 27, 2016 18:03:11 GMT -5
I agree with the above statement. Make sure your input is not set for DIRECT. This takes the sub out.
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Post by yeeeha17 on Jan 27, 2016 18:06:12 GMT -5
Emo-q is horriable! Run it in direct mode or use REW and see if that sounds better
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Post by Loop 7 on Jan 28, 2016 0:40:15 GMT -5
Tell us about your room.
My room has a huge dip between 150 Hz and 500 Hz which is extremely frustrating.
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Post by The History Kid on Jan 28, 2016 2:16:31 GMT -5
I would echo what some have said here: Please don't use any calibration as the bible. I don't believe any auto-configuration is any match for what our own ears hear. That being said, it may be a good place to start, but I can count on one hand how many times I've heard of people actually just leaving the configuration after the auto-cal has been done.
The KLF-30's are some of the best Klipsch speakers out there, and if my RF-3 II's can put out the bass, so can your KLF's. Check your crossover settings...I'd recommend 70 or 60 Hz on the KLF's. I tend to let my speakers and sub overlap just a bit. Some may disagree with this: but I'd also encourage you to set the KLF's to full range as well (or large).
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jan 28, 2016 7:04:57 GMT -5
Ditto to 99.9% of what ChuckieNut said.
The KLF-30 is a monster of efficiency (102dB @ 1W 1M), but they don't really go that low (-3 dB @ 36Hz), so subs are a good idea. I think you just have a matching issue or a really bad set of room modes or phase issue.
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Post by sonicseeker on Jan 28, 2016 9:06:06 GMT -5
Ditto to 99.9% of what ChuckieNut said. The KLF-30 is a monster of efficiency (102dB @ 1W 1M), but they don't really go that low (-3 dB @ 36Hz), so subs are a good idea. I think you just have a matching issue or a really bad set of room modes or phase issue. I would agree here, Th KLF-30's are rocking speakers and you did here them before you got them home and you are not hearing them perform the same as what you experienced with his equipment in his room, so the issue has to be your room and or the match with your equipment. I recently moved to a new home and the RF-7II's I had with the same equipment sounded terrible in my new home compared to my old space in my previous home. Speaker placement, room treatments were critical here where not at all in my old space. I hope you can get it figured out because these are great R&R speakers. |
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Post by thrasher on Jan 28, 2016 15:17:27 GMT -5
Thank you for all of the insight. I am not much of a tinkerer, so doing setup changes, adjustments or modifications is out of my comfort zone really. I know what I want, but getting there taxes my patience. My center channel is a Klipsch KLF-C7. Mistake, my sub is a 10", Dynaudio Sub300 www.dynaudio.com/discontinued-models/sub/sub-300/My room size is 14x18, carpeted. Two large windows, no pictures on walls. |
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Post by sonicseeker on Jan 28, 2016 15:28:17 GMT -5
I used to have the same center, it was great.
The xpa-5 should really move that set up.
Try setting the speakers to maybe 30 or 40 hz crossover and see if you notice a difference.
Also if you have not already done so check with the guys on the Klipsch forum, quite a few of them use the Emo gear to power there set ups.
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Post by teaman on Jan 28, 2016 15:28:42 GMT -5
I have absolutely no experience with the UMC-200 but if it is anything at all like the Sherbourn PT 7020 as far as controls you may need to go in and make adjustments to the gain for the bass and lower frequencies for your speakers. I know with the PT7020 and even my SR-120's without making adjustments and tinkering to find my happy spot it did not seem like much of a performer out of the box. In the manual it should tell you how to adjust the response for each speaker. Changing your speaker levels, distances, size, etc should allow you to get the sound tailor suited for what you want to hear. I have the XPA-5 set up with a PT 7020 and some KG 4's, centered by a KLF-C7 and they put out plenty of sound, and bass. Your KLF's should easily walk all over the KG 4's as far as bass is concerned.
Experiment with the crossover points. Your set up might benefit from a 60-70 crossover while you set your sub at 75 or something. Different speakers require different needs.
Where are you located? Who knows, maybe someone local to you can help you out!
Tim
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Post by thrasher on Jan 28, 2016 16:44:02 GMT -5
I have absolutely no experience with the UMC-200 but if it is anything at all like the Sherbourn PT 7020 as far as controls you may need to go in and make adjustments to the gain for the bass and lower frequencies for your speakers. I know with the PT7020 and even my SR-120's without making adjustments and tinkering to find my happy spot it did not seem like much of a performer out of the box. In the manual it should tell you how to adjust the response for each speaker. Changing your speaker levels, distances, size, etc should allow you to get the sound tailor suited for what you want to hear. I have the XPA-5 set up with a PT 7020 and some KG 4's, centered by a KLF-C7 and they put out plenty of sound, and bass. Your KLF's should easily walk all over the KG 4's as far as bass is concerned. Experiment with the crossover points. Your set up might benefit from a 60-70 crossover while you set your sub at 75 or something. Different speakers require different needs. Where are you located? Who knows, maybe someone local to you can help you out! Tim I'd love to have someone come figure this out. Hurts my brain. I am located in Ferndale, WA 98248 |
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Post by The History Kid on Jan 28, 2016 17:59:01 GMT -5
Also, you may opt to move the KLF-30's out a bit. How far are they from the wall now?
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Post by thrasher on Jan 28, 2016 21:13:58 GMT -5
Also, you may opt to move the KLF-30's out a bit. How far are they from the wall now? I've moved them from roughly 8" out to about 18" or so, then back to about 8-10". No difference. There's just not much air moving. |
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Post by The History Kid on Jan 28, 2016 23:30:59 GMT -5
If the UMC-200 has a similar OSD to the Fusion 8100 (I believe it should, since the Fusion should essentially be the UMC with an amp built in):
Go to menu -> Speaker Setup -> Size/Crossover ->
Try changing front L/R to Large & 65 Hz
Leave the center as small at 70 Hz
Change the sub to 80 Hz
Give that a listen, if it's still dull, change the Front Slope a bit (I have mine set to 12 dB for example).
See if that does the trick. Perfection sadly does not come with an easy button.
(Also, if your sub has a high pass cut, I'd set it either at 80, or 100 Hz. 80 being more reasonable and preferable.)
Also check your gain level on the XPA-5. I have mine on the UPA-2 when in use set to 60%.
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Post by garym on Jan 29, 2016 9:44:03 GMT -5
Emo-q is horriable! Run it in direct mode or use REW and see if that sounds better Absolutely. |
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Post by cheapthryl on Jan 29, 2016 10:50:02 GMT -5
Also check your gain level on the XPA-5. I have mine on the UPA-2 when in use set to 60%. The UPA 2 is the only Emotiva amp with an adjustable gain. (other than the volume control on the smaller integrated amps) |
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Post by thrasher on Jan 29, 2016 11:55:30 GMT -5
The person that originally came to my house, to help with the setup, was a retired installer. He told me that if I start messing with the db adjustments and pushing the system too hard by overriding EQ, then I run the risk of over working and abusing the gear. On that, I've been extremely apprehensive to push too far. Is this true?
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Post by thrasher on Jan 29, 2016 11:56:04 GMT -5
Also check your gain level on the XPA-5. I have mine on the UPA-2 when in use set to 60%. The UPA 2 is the only Emotiva amp with an adjustable gain. (other than the volume control on the smaller integrated amps) REW? |
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Post by cheapthryl on Jan 29, 2016 12:01:08 GMT -5
The UPA 2 is the only Emotiva amp with an adjustable gain. (other than the volume control on the smaller integrated amps) REW? I was referring to the gain adjustment on the back of the UPA 2. |
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