Will XMC1 receive dtsx firmware upgrade?

[jw]

I sure hope so , I think it will be a great upgrade in sound quality control for the xmc1.

[wilburthegoose]

jw - I don't think it's possible.

DTS-X requires more than a 7.2 system.

[LCSeminole]

If it's not getting a Dolby Atmos upgrade, I highly doubt a DTS:X upgrade would be in the works. While only Dan/Lonnie/Ray/Keith know what is to come, I would think that immersive sound will only come in an XMR or next generation XMC processor.

[jw]

Feb 17, 2016 9:31:46 GMT -5 jw said:

At audioholics it discuss, that it can do a 5.1 setup . It would seem to me a benefit for any processor . Not talking about atmos just dtsx and it just a firmware upgrade.

Here a quote from audioholics:

What to Expect from AVRs and Pre-Pros Supporting DTS:X

For AVRs and pre-pros released in 2015 (and as far as we can tell this will apply to 2016 AVRs too), there are a few things to note about DTS:X support.
DTS:X AVRs can support up to a maximum of 11.2 speaker output channels.
Content created for a specific speaker layout can be remapped to a different layout supported by the AVR.
There is support for up to 32 speaker locations but what you'll actually see will be subject to each manufacturer's product capabilities. For example, a 5.1.2-capable AVR will have more limited speaker layout options than a 7.1.4 capable AVR.
Metadata-based spatial mapping renders the ideal 3D sound image to actual speaker layouts.

Seems possible to me it can and will if emotiva decides to make it a option for us with the xmc1. I hope so at least

[moovtune]

I'm confused as to what you think would be gained if it could be added. The XMC-1 is already, and only, a 7.2 processor.

[Bonzo]

Feb 17, 2016 9:17:27 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

jw - I don't think it's possible.

DTS-X requires more than a 7.2 system.

Not correct. It can do 5.1 or 7.1 or more. The sales rumors will have you believe that it will work better for most average folks than Atmos because the DTS:X architecture was created to "adapt" to how ever many speakers you have, and where ever they are placed. But until it's all tested it's just claims made by DTS.

Atmos will also "work" with 5.1 or 7.1. It just may not sound any different than Dolby True. Although in theory, since Atmos and Dolby True could be 2 completely different mixes, it's also possible they could in fact sound different. That would depend on the guy making the mixes etc.

[KeithL]

About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.

The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)

HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.

As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.


 

[jw]

What to Expect from AVRs and Pre-Pros Supporting DTS:X

For AVRs and pre-pros released in 2015 (and as far as we can tell this will apply to 2016 AVRs too), there are a few things to note about DTS:X support.
DTS:X AVRs can support up to a maximum of 11.2 speaker output channels.
Content created for a specific speaker layout can be remapped to a different layout supported by the AVR.
There is support for up to 32 speaker locations but what you'll actually see will be subject to each manufacturer's product capabilities. For example, a 5.1.2-capable AVR will have more limited speaker layout options than a 7.1.4 capable AVR.
Metadata-based spatial mapping renders the ideal 3D sound image to actual speaker layouts.


Still should be a option if all avrs are getting a upgrade as audioholics pointed out in there article.?

[jmilton]

Feb 17, 2016 9:54:06 GMT -5 KeithL said:

About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.

The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)

HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.

As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.


 

DTS-X, you say...."Immersive audio isn’t a gimmick; and neither is DTS:X. DTS:X is thumbs up. The ability to use any one of multiple speaker layouts supported by your AVR is going to be a huge game changer."

www.audioholics.com/editorials/dts-x-listening-evaluation

[foggy1956]

Feb 17, 2016 10:57:52 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Feb 17, 2016 9:54:06 GMT -5 KeithL said:

About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.

The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)

HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.

As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.


 

DTS-X, you say...."Immersive audio isn’t a gimmick; and neither is DTS:X. DTS:X is thumbs up. The ability to use any one of multiple speaker layouts supported by your AVR is going to be a huge game changer."

www.audioholics.com/editorials/dts-x-listening-evaluation

Excellent article, thnx

[jw]

That's what I've been saying about dtsx it would be a good upgrade path for the xmc1 in producing better sound quality out of a already great prepro.

[Bonzo]

Feb 17, 2016 9:54:06 GMT -5 KeithL said:

About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.

The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)

HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.

As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.


 

Keith, since you are here (following me again as usual ), perhaps you could try to answer one technical question I have about the XMC-1 and a potential upgrade? Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible? What all would it require to even try and make happen? Firmware, wiring, new boards etc? I'm sure it wouldn't be a free upgrade to existing units (or maybe not even possible), but perhaps it could be a minimal up-charge to future models, like an XMC-2? I'm only asking this because I've always considered Zone outputs as more novelty than necessity. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. I'd much rather use them for the 7.2.4 addition in my main room than to send signals for other rooms. For now I'm just asking if it's been considered or even feasible. I honestly truly believe you would greatly increase the sales longevity of the XMC-1 by doing this. I feel it's currently the one big drawback to not buying an XMC-1. Just trying to help.

[jw]

I too do not use the zone channels in my home theater that could be a good option for them maybe. A little more time will tell I guess what the option might be for the xmc1 . Very good idea for emotiva maybe to use these channels to receive a upgrade like this. Great idea indeed if it can be done.

[jjkessler]

If possible, I would most certainly buy an add on external device that eats up the Zone 2, Tos link, or HDMI channel to be able to add the 4 height speakers in Atmos

However, I'm betting the issue is not the output channels as much as decoding it in Sync with the primary processors

[Percussionista]

Feb 17, 2016 12:19:49 GMT -5 jw said:

I too do not use the zone channels in my home theater that could be a good option for them maybe. A little more time will tell I guess what the option might be for the xmc1 . Very good idea for emotiva maybe to use these channels to receive a upgrade like this. Great idea indeed if it can be done.

Brilliant idea if feasible! Many computer sound-cards have multi-use connectors; some can even be used as inputs or outputs depending on how they are configured in the software (driver). Instead of sending a mix of the main music to the zone channels, just send height info, decoding the rest to the normal channels. Now that would truly be a testament to how upgradeable the XMC-1 really is!

This multi-use idea wouldn't be a bad way to go in the future considering the differing requirements of many users. I could care less about extra zones, personally, but others will swear by them.

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 17, 2016 11:54:01 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

... Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible?

This was first suggested by Tony (ansat) about the time the XMC-1 was released, I asked Lonnie about the possibility at EmoLA about a year and a half ago. He said there were routing problems that would need to be resolved, and that Dirac and the Tone functions were not available on these outputs. While it's fine for some to say they wouldn't use the tone controls, I think for the upgrade to be worthwhile you would need Dirac on all channels.

For clarification, Zone 1 is the same as the Main Zone so there are really only 2 additional channels available, if everything worked out you could do 7.2.2 or 5.2.4, but I'd doubt it's feasible.

[Bonzo]

Feb 18, 2016 19:21:05 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Feb 17, 2016 11:54:01 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

... Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible?

This was first suggested by Tony (ansat) about the time the XMC-1 was released, I asked Lonnie about the possibility at EmoLA about a year and a half ago. He said there were routing problems that would need to be resolved, and that Dirac and the Tone functions were not available on these outputs. While it's fine for some to say they wouldn't use the tone controls, I think for the upgrade to be worthwhile you would need Dirac on all channels.

For clarification, Zone 1 is the same as the Main Zone so there are really only 2 additional channels available, if everything worked out you could do 7.2.2 or 5.2.4, but I'd doubt it's feasible.

So it sounds like you've answered the question for an XMC-1, but not for an XMC-2. The series 2 products all got updates and some feature upgrades. Why couldn't the XMC-2 get this upgrade? What would it take to do some rewiring and reprogramming etc? Perhaps only Lonnie can answer that? Keith? That's more what I personally want to know, because I haven't bought an XMC-1 yet. If they could make this upgrade for the next gen unit with minimal cost upgrade then I see the XMC-2 having a much longer future. I know the odds of me buying one would go through the roof. Without it I just see the XMC-1 losing ground more quickly than anyone wants. I just want to help this great unit stay in the ball game.

By the way, I'm just using the name XMC-2 for convenience sake. What it would be called is up to them.

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 18, 2016 20:08:46 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Feb 18, 2016 19:21:05 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

This was first suggested by Tony (ansat) about the time the XMC-1 was released, I asked Lonnie about the possibility at EmoLA about a year and a half ago. He said there were routing problems that would need to be resolved, and that Dirac and the Tone functions were not available on these outputs. While it's fine for some to say they wouldn't use the tone controls, I think for the upgrade to be worthwhile you would need Dirac on all channels.

For clarification, Zone 1 is the same as the Main Zone so there are really only 2 additional channels available, if everything worked out you could do 7.2.2 or 5.2.4, but I'd doubt it's feasible.

So it sounds like you've answered the question for an XMC-1, but not for an XMC-2. The series 2 products all got updates and some feature upgrades. Why couldn't the XMC-2 get this upgrade? What would it take to do some rewiring and reprogramming etc? Perhaps only Lonnie can answer that? Keith? That's more what I personally want to know, because I haven't bought an XMC-1 yet. If they could make this upgrade for the next gen unit with minimal cost upgrade then I see the XMC-2 having a much longer future. I know the odds of me buying one would go through the roof. Without it I just see the XMC-1 losing ground more quickly than anyone wants. I just want to help this great unit stay in the ball game.

By the way, I'm just using the name XMC-2 for convenience sake. What it would be called is up to them.

Actually the XMC-1 is a series 2, but the question at hand was if the XMC-1 could be upgraded to include Atmos or DTS:X, not whether they could make a new product or generation that could (of course they could do that).

[cwt]

[quote author="AudioHTIT" source="/post/799479/thread" timestamp="1455841265 I asked Lonnie about the possibility at EmoLA about a year and a half ago. He said there were routing problems that would need to be resolved, and that Dirac and the Tone functions were not available on these outputs. While it's fine for some to say they wouldn't use the tone controls, I think for the upgrade to be worthwhile you would need Dirac on all channels.
[/quote]
Ide imagine if a 5.2.4 config was possible that would appeal considerably more than just the 2 ceiling speakers for larger rooms [like mine ]though the routing is a wrinkle [ and why Keith addressed the 7ch option only ?]

Noticed when the arcam 550 was released a lot of complaints that dirac was only available for the bed channels ; theyve announced an upgrade to the ceilings apparently

[Bonzo]

Feb 18, 2016 20:37:33 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Actually the XMC-1 is a series 2,

You are getting caught up in semantics. Like I said, I was just making up and using the name XMC-2 to reference something other than thin air. And since the XMC-1 is Gen 2, then it's certainly possible the XMC-2 could be Gen 3.

but the question at hand was if the XMC-1 could be upgraded to include Atmos or DTS:X, not whether they could make a new product or generation that could (of course they could do that).

Not 100% true. If you go back and look at my original post above asking about this, I clearly ask about both. It's was a 2 part question. You must have only caught part #1.

Even if they could do part #1, which is to update the current XMC-1, I don't think anyone would think it would be necessarily inexpensive to do, let alone free. But I had to ask, and you answered that.

Part #2 was to ask how hard it would be to implement it into the next generation unit, what I called the XMC-2. Of course they could totally redesign the entire unit. But I'm thinking that if they could just make some internal wiring changes, firmware changes, and some output remapping etc (what ever it may be), without totally redesigning the XMC-1, THAT would be the way to go. Why reinvent the entire wheel? Of course it's just an assumption on my part, but I would think costs associated with this upgrade would be minimal (especially compared to a total redesign) and in turn make the new sell price minimally higher than it is now. I'm thinking this (simple?) upgrade would keep the XMC series relevant for several more years (certainly more than it sits as it is). I'm thinking many people wouldn't mind giving up the Zone outputs to gain the extra 4 Atmos or DTS:X channels (of course ultimately it would be awesome if the outputs could be chosen by the user to still be Zone, .2, or .4 channels, but that may be asking too much, I don't know). Perhaps I'm wrong? Does everyone else hate the idea? Perhaps I should a make a poll? I just figured it was at least worth asking the question.