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Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 9:29:21 GMT -5
Bonzo, You are not quite correct in saying there are no females on this forum. Last time I checked, I was still a girl. I may not have a high post count, but I follow the threads every day. I consider my XMC-1 to be a super value.. Ann You tell him Ann!!!  Back stabber!  |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 10:08:28 GMT -5
I do hope Emotiva gets on the ball on get the XMR-1 or XMC-2 with Atmos to production within the next year or so and not get left behind +1. I think this might be my main point, but really hadn't thought about it that way exactly. If the XMR-1 does come to fruition, (which I sincerely hope it does, I'm just not positive it will), it will be Emotiva's flagship premium processor with a matching premium price (relatively speaking for Emotiva that is). It has been said that it will have 16 fully balanced channels, plenty to handle 7.2.4 and then some. Awesome. But then the next processor down the chain, the XMC-1, can't do those things. There needs to be an XMC-2 that can do those things, because as it sits, I don't see the XMC-1 being a relevant product 2 or 3 years from now. Maybe even sooner than that. That's just me and my opinion, so please don't take that as factual information; I don't have a crystal ball. Atmos and DTS:X and Auro are here and will be here to stay for quite some time I believe. So since the XMC-1 will never do it, there needs to be a comparable XMC-2 that can. Save money by making the channels unbalanced, and limiting it to 7.2.4 etc. (While yes, I do believe there will be a trend to move ever onward for more and more channels, I think there is also an argument that it will be a long time before it would ever become the defacto thing. It will truly be a very niche thing for people with means and desire to have it. People have even talked about floor speakers and what not, but that's almost laughable really, at least for the vast majority of people and their homes.) I believe for most folks, 7.2.4 will be the end of the line, for a good long time (as 7.1 has been for 10+ years now). It's the diminishing returns thing. Many would argue there isn't enough difference between 5.1 and 7.1 to even do that. Ceiling speakers are going to be a tough pill for many to swallow. But when they do, I think 4 is going to get the job done for most people. When you think about the shape of an optimum theater room, 4 makes sense. 5 or 6 might make an improvement (to have 1 or 2 directly overhead, 2 in back, and 2 up front). But what about more than that? Would it really make any substantial difference? I'm not talking a true theater sized room with seating for 30 people, I'm talking a modest theater room with seating for 6 or 8ish. At that point I think the diminishing returns thing cranks up to full tilt, to the point where it's going to be wasteful for most, even the niche theater guys. I guess maybe if they wanted to avoid longer term obsolescence, they should make it 7.2.6 if they could. 2 channel systems will be around for a long long time. But the surround processor market needs to keep up to speed or get lost in the shuffle. I don't make up the rules, but that's the way they have gone since surround sound started back in the late 1980's. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 10:31:16 GMT -5
So bonzo, I don't think I've read one way or the other, but are you planning on installing ceiling speakers to go with a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X setup? If so, what processor/receiver will you be entertaining? As they say, pictures are worth a million words. Wires are up the wall and in the ceiling ready to go.   My house is a ranch with a full mostly open attic. My media room is literally right next to the garage, where there is easy ceiling access. So putting in 4 speakers would be almost as easy if it were done during the original house construction. As to which processor, that's a very good question. I like the XMC-1 except for the said limitations. I'd like the XMR-1 but $5000 is a ton for a processor (on my income), and I think at the moment it might be overkill for me and my needs. I REALLY like the new Marantz except for the $4000 price tag (an it's lack of a digital toslink or RCA output). The Denon might be a good fit, but haven't seriously looked at it either. The new Anthem is too limited in features. As long as my old Denon keeps working I'm not in any super hurry with this. I'm going to let things play out a bit longer to see where the dust settles. For now I'm just watching and weighing out the options. If there were an XMC-2 that had everything the XMC-1 has now (not taking a single thing away), but added the 7.2 .4 (or better yet 7.2 .6) channels for Atmos / DTS:X / Auro, all for say $3000, I'd buy it for Christmas 2016. And I think that XMC-2 would have a much longer lifespan than the XMC-1. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 10:45:42 GMT -5
I also would JUMP on that xmc-2 as well...
but until then...no thanks on the xmc-1 (been there done that twice...not going backwards again)
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 2, 2016 13:02:23 GMT -5
Obviously everyone has different needs - and wants. As of last year, and according to some industry sources, only about 1/3 of people with "serious home theater systems" were using 7.1 channels, while about 2/3 were still using 5.1 - and 7.1 channel has been out for how many years? (And I know more than a few people who still listen to...... stereo.) So, while I don't doubt that many people will jump on the Atmos and DTS-X bandwagon, I suspect that the XMC-1 will in fact remain relevant for quite a few years - even if it ceases to be "cutting edge". (You must also realize that, along with the people who "just gotta have 11 channels", there are still a few people out there who resent the fact that it's gotten difficult to find a stereo receiver nowadays. I'm guessing that, a few years from now, there are going to be a significant number who "just want 5.1 or 7.1 that sounds really good".) Personally, I own a lot of discs, and only one of them so far is in Atmos... and I'm not planning to replace all the rest any time soon. And, at this point, it seems unclear whether any of the streaming services are going to support Atmos in a significant number of their releases. Everybody seems to be jumping on the 4k bandwagon, but a lot of rental discs, and a lot of streaming content, doesn't seem to have even made the jump from DD 5.1 to TrueHD 7.1 . (And, to be totally honest with everyone, the picture quality on my new 4k TV blew me away. Now I just hope that some movies I actually care about come out on 4k so I'll have something to watch. However, while I find that Atmos "sounds nice", it didn't get me all tingly, and I have no plans to poke holes in my ceiling any time soon... but, then, other than for some movies, I actually prefer stereo for music.) Incidentally, check out the list of movies that are planned for release in Atmos AND UHD (4k) this year. So far, it's a mighty short list.... and I see exactly ONE that I plan to buy. I do agree that EVENTUALLY 4k, HDR, Atmos, and DTS-X will become "the new standards" - but I'm NOT holding my breath. I do hope Emotiva gets on the ball on get the XMR-1 or XMC-2 with Atmos to production within the next year or so and not get left behind +1. I think this might be my main point, but really hadn't thought about it that way exactly. If the XMR-1 does come to fruition, (which I sincerely hope it does, I'm just not positive it will), it will be Emotiva's flagship premium processor with a matching premium price (relatively speaking for Emotiva that is). It has been said that it will have 16 fully balanced channels, plenty to handle 7.2.4 and then some. Awesome. But then the next processor down the chain, the XMC-1, can't do those things. There needs to be an XMC-2 that can do those things, because as it sits, I don't see the XMC-1 being a relevant product 2 or 3 years from now. Maybe even sooner than that. That's just me and my opinion, so please don't take that as factual information; I don't have a crystal ball. Atmos and DTS:X and Auro are here and will be here to stay for quite some time I believe. So since the XMC-1 will never do it, there needs to be a comparable XMC-2 that can. Save money by making the channels unbalanced, and limiting it to 7.2.4 etc. (While yes, I do believe there will be a trend to move ever onward for more and more channels, I think there is also an argument that it will be a long time before it would ever become the defacto thing. It will truly be a very niche thing for people with means and desire to have it. People have even talked about floor speakers and what not, but that's almost laughable really, at least for the vast majority of people and their homes.) I believe for most folks, 7.2.4 will be the end of the line, for a good long time (as 7.1 has been for 10+ years now). It's the diminishing returns thing. Many would argue there isn't enough difference between 5.1 and 7.1 to even do that. Ceiling speakers are going to be a tough pill for many to swallow. But when they do, I think 4 is going to get the job done for most people. When you think about the shape of an optimum theater room, 4 makes sense. 5 or 6 might make an improvement (to have 1 or 2 directly overhead, 2 in back, and 2 up front). But what about more than that? Would it really make any substantial difference? I'm not talking a true theater sized room with seating for 30 people, I'm talking a modest theater room with seating for 6 or 8ish. At that point I think the diminishing returns thing cranks up to full tilt, to the point where it's going to be wasteful for most, even the niche theater guys. I guess maybe if they wanted to avoid longer term obsolescence, they should make it 7.2.6 if they could. 2 channel systems will be around for a long long time. But the surround processor market needs to keep up to speed or get lost in the shuffle. I don't make up the rules, but that's the way they have gone since surround sound started back in the late 1980's. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 13:49:39 GMT -5
Obviously everyone has different needs - and wants. As of last year, and according to some industry sources, only about 1/3 of people with "serious home theater systems" were using 7.1 channels, while about 2/3 were still using 5.1 - and 7.1 channel has been out for how many years? (And I know more than a few people who still listen to...... stereo.) So, while I don't doubt that many people will jump on the Atmos and DTS-X bandwagon, I suspect that the XMC-1 will in fact remain relevant for quite a few years - even if it ceases to be "cutting edge". (You must also realize that, along with the people who "just gotta have 11 channels", there are still a few people out there who resent the fact that it's gotten difficult to find a stereo receiver nowadays. I'm guessing that, a few years from now, there are going to be a significant number who "just want 5.1 or 7.1 that sounds really good".) Personally, I own a lot of discs, and only one of them so far is in Atmos... and I'm not planning to replace all the rest any time soon. And, at this point, it seems unclear whether any of the streaming services are going to support Atmos in a significant number of their releases. Everybody seems to be jumping on the 4k bandwagon, but a lot of rental discs, and a lot of streaming content, doesn't seem to have even made the jump from DD 5.1 to TrueHD 7.1 . (And, to be totally honest with everyone, the picture quality on my new 4k TV blew me away. Now I just hope that some movies I actually care about come out on 4k so I'll have something to watch. However, while I find that Atmos "sounds nice", it didn't get me all tingly, and I have no plans to poke holes in my ceiling any time soon... but, then, other than for some movies, I actually prefer stereo for music.) Incidentally, check out the list of movies that are planned for release in Atmos AND UHD (4k) this year. So far, it's a mighty short list.... and I see exactly ONE that I plan to buy. I do agree that EVENTUALLY 4k, HDR, Atmos, and DTS-X will become "the new standards" - but I'm NOT holding my breath. I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, and when you say it like that it makes good sense. But try looking at it from a little bit different perspective. For the person actually going out to buy a new receiver or processor in 2 years, what do you think they will most likely buy? By that time virtually every make and model from the big guys, from low priced models to the high priced ones, will have Atmos and the like. It won't be a special feature, it will be the norm. Nearly every other processor on the market will have it, because they won't sell without it. In terms of TV's, in 2 years the vast majority of TVs will be UHD HDR, whether they need to be or not, because they won't sell without it. Whether the streaming or physical format or broadcast content is there or not, it doesn't matter. Even if it were a top of the line set like my Panny ZT, in 2 years would you still buy it for your main room? How about even right now? I doubt it. And that's why, even right now, today, there is so much discussion about it. None of us know for certain how the future will pan out. Perhaps Atmos and the like will eventually run the course of 3D in TV's. At one time that was all the rage, but in the end still having to wear glasses and a lack of titles brought it back down. Perhaps the need for ceiling speakers will dissuade most people from ever making the jump to the new codecs. Perhaps this is all a big hype that will only last 3 - 5 years, then the old Dolby and DTS regulars will be back. It's certainly possible. It would appear this is more your approach to it, yes? My way of thinking is that in the land of normal folks, you might be right. But in the land of audiophiles and videophiles, if it's available, and if it's reviewed as a certain sonic and movie experience upgrade (which still remains to be seen), people will want it. |
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 2, 2016 14:34:11 GMT -5
Obviously everyone has different needs - and wants. As of last year, and according to some industry sources, only about 1/3 of people with "serious home theater systems" were using 7.1 channels, while about 2/3 were still using 5.1 - and 7.1 channel has been out for how many years? (And I know more than a few people who still listen to...... stereo.) So, while I don't doubt that many people will jump on the Atmos and DTS-X bandwagon, I suspect that the XMC-1 will in fact remain relevant for quite a few years - even if it ceases to be "cutting edge". (You must also realize that, along with the people who "just gotta have 11 channels", there are still a few people out there who resent the fact that it's gotten difficult to find a stereo receiver nowadays. I'm guessing that, a few years from now, there are going to be a significant number who "just want 5.1 or 7.1 that sounds really good".) Personally, I own a lot of discs, and only one of them so far is in Atmos... and I'm not planning to replace all the rest any time soon. And, at this point, it seems unclear whether any of the streaming services are going to support Atmos in a significant number of their releases. Everybody seems to be jumping on the 4k bandwagon, but a lot of rental discs, and a lot of streaming content, doesn't seem to have even made the jump from DD 5.1 to TrueHD 7.1 . (And, to be totally honest with everyone, the picture quality on my new 4k TV blew me away. Now I just hope that some movies I actually care about come out on 4k so I'll have something to watch. However, while I find that Atmos "sounds nice", it didn't get me all tingly, and I have no plans to poke holes in my ceiling any time soon... but, then, other than for some movies, I actually prefer stereo for music.) Incidentally, check out the list of movies that are planned for release in Atmos AND UHD (4k) this year. So far, it's a mighty short list.... and I see exactly ONE that I plan to buy. I do agree that EVENTUALLY 4k, HDR, Atmos, and DTS-X will become "the new standards" - but I'm NOT holding my breath. I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, and when you say it like that it makes good sense. But try looking at it from a little bit different perspective. For the person actually going out to buy a new receiver or processor in 2 years, what do you think they will most likely buy? By that time virtually every make and model from the big guys, from low priced models to the high priced ones, will have Atmos and the like. It won't be a special feature, it will be the norm. Nearly every other processor on the market will have it, because they won't sell without it. In terms of TV's, in 2 years the vast majority of TVs will be UHD HDR, whether they need to be or not, because they won't sell without it. Whether the streaming or physical format or broadcast content is there or not, it doesn't matter. Even if it were a top of the line set like my Panny ZT, in 2 years would you still buy it for your main room? How about even right now? I doubt it. And that's why, even right now, today, there is so much discussion about it. None of us know for certain how the future will pan out. Perhaps Atmos and the like will eventually run the course of 3D in TV's. At one time that was all the rage, but in the end still having to wear glasses and a lack of titles brought it back down. Perhaps the need for ceiling speakers will dissuade most people from ever making the jump to the new codecs. Perhaps this is all a big hype that will only last 3 - 5 years, then the old Dolby and DTS regulars will be back. It's certainly possible. It would appear this is more your approach to it, yes? My way of thinking is that in the land of normal folks, you might be right. But in the land of audiophiles and videophiles, if it's available, and if it's reviewed as a certain sonic and movie experience upgrade (which still remains to be seen), people will want it. I have been following this thread. Don't know why and don't really care about any of this. I'm A two channel stereo guy have been for 40 years. Hook my Oppo up to just stereo and watch movies and concerts. For me it is all I want. To each his own, correct. The only reason for my post is the last statement you make. Yes in the 70's I had a subscription to stereo review. But it never influenced me to buy something I did not want. I know weeks before I pull the trigger on something weather or not I'm will purchase. All the Magazine write ups and adds in the world do not influence me much. I buy things I like period no rhyme or reason other then I like it. I never Let "reviews" (to me they are Opinions not reviews)Sway me one way or another. Am I a "audiophile"? Don't know I have a ton of audio gear most I percussed new in the 70's still works. I have new stuff from the past 5 years. So are guys/gals like me in the world of audiophiles/videophiles ? Not every one "jumps " on new things. I was told this same thing 20 some years ago about Vinyl. I hung on to all me vinyl and look it is the "new" hip thing. My point in all this bluster is don't ever assume what others may want. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 2, 2016 14:55:14 GMT -5
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, and when you say it like that it makes good sense. But try looking at it from a little bit different perspective. For the person actually going out to buy a new receiver or processor in 2 years, what do you think they will most likely buy? By that time virtually every make and model from the big guys, from low priced models to the high priced ones, will have Atmos and the like. It won't be a special feature, it will be the norm. Nearly every other processor on the market will have it, because they won't sell without it. In terms of TV's, in 2 years the vast majority of TVs will be UHD HDR, whether they need to be or not, because they won't sell without it. Whether the streaming or physical format or broadcast content is there or not, it doesn't matter. Even if it were a top of the line set like my Panny ZT, in 2 years would you still buy it for your main room? How about even right now? I doubt it. And that's why, even right now, today, there is so much discussion about it. None of us know for certain how the future will pan out. Perhaps Atmos and the like will eventually run the course of 3D in TV's. At one time that was all the rage, but in the end still having to wear glasses and a lack of titles brought it back down. Perhaps the need for ceiling speakers will dissuade most people from ever making the jump to the new codecs. Perhaps this is all a big hype that will only last 3 - 5 years, then the old Dolby and DTS regulars will be back. It's certainly possible. It would appear this is more your approach to it, yes? My way of thinking is that in the land of normal folks, you might be right. But in the land of audiophiles and videophiles, if it's available, and if it's reviewed as a certain sonic and movie experience upgrade (which still remains to be seen), people will want it. I have been following this thread. Don't know why and don't really care about any of this. I'm A two channel stereo guy have been for 40 years. Hook my Oppo up to just stereo and watch movies and concerts. For me it is all I want. To each his own, correct. The only reason for my post is the last statement you make. Yes in the 70's I had a subscription to stereo review. But it never influenced me to buy something I did not want. I know weeks before I pull the trigger on something weather or not I'm will purchase. All the Magazine write ups and adds in the world do not influence me much. I buy things I like period no rhyme or reason other then I like it. I never Let "reviews" (to me they are Opinions not reviews)Sway me one way or another. Am I a "audiophile"? Don't know I have a ton of audio gear most I percussed new in the 70's still works. I have new stuff from the past 5 years. So are guys/gals like me in the world of audiophiles/videophiles ? Not every one "jumps " on new things. I was told this same thing 20 some years ago about Vinyl. I hung on to all me vinyl and look it is the "new" hip thing. My point in all this bluster is don't ever assume what others may want. Unless a product is really, really horrible, such as the new Burger King hot dogs, there will always be some sort of demand for a product (even those hot dogs). But the question for a profit-seeking company is whether a contemplated product is going to generate enough demand as well as profits to make it worthwhile. Even if the demand is there you have to consider what your capacity is for making the product and the cost of that product, as to whether it is economically feasible considering what your competition can do. I think unless you're really selling some niche item, a product has to both useful and practical (as in easy to use) in order to be popular. That's why Bose does so well, because their products are easy to use plus the fill the need for folks who want to listen to music or want a home theater speaker system that looks good and isn't a hassle to set up. I think the failure of 3D was due to the rewards of a 3D picture not being worth the hassle of having to wear special lenses to view it and also the novelty wore off. The problem I see with Atmos is the hassle of putting up ceiling speakers and even if you get ones that don't go on the ceiling but project the sound upward then you have the issue of multiple speakers in the room that most folks don't want to deal with. That's not to say the demand isn't there, but the question for a company is whether there is sufficient demand to go ahead and manufacture the product. We sit here in the Lounge making all sorts of suggestions and demands of Emo as to what they ought to be making, what features they need to have in their products, etc., and I have to say, Dan is not stupid. He has demonstrated he and Cathy are savvy business people by the company they have built so I'm sure he's carefully considered all these avenues and the impact it would have on the operations of the company. So while it's nice to present our wish lists, and then wonder what is the matter with Emo and why can't they understand anything, most likely they've already considered 99% of it already and have made an intelligent decision about it as it respects their own company. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 2, 2016 15:06:17 GMT -5
I have been following this thread. Don't know why and don't really care about any of this. I'm A two channel stereo guy have been for 40 years. Hook my Oppo up to just stereo and watch movies and concerts. For me it is all I want. To each his own, correct. The only reason for my post is the last statement you make. Yes in the 70's I had a subscription to stereo review. But it never influenced me to buy something I did not want. I know weeks before I pull the trigger on something weather or not I'm will purchase. All the Magazine write ups and adds in the world do not influence me much. I buy things I like period no rhyme or reason other then I like it. I never Let "reviews" (to me they are Opinions not reviews)Sway me one way or another. Am I a "audiophile"? Don't know I have a ton of audio gear most I percussed new in the 70's still works. I have new stuff from the past 5 years. So are guys/gals like me in the world of audiophiles/videophiles ? Not every one "jumps " on new things. I was told this same thing 20 some years ago about Vinyl. I hung on to all me vinyl and look it is the "new" hip thing. My point in all this bluster is don't ever assume what others may want. Unless a product is really, really horrible, such as the new Burger King hot dogs, there will always be some sort of demand for a product (even those hot dogs). But the question for a profit-seeking company is whether a contemplated product is going to generate enough demand as well as profits to make it worthwhile. Even if the demand is there you have to consider what your capacity is for making the product and the cost of that product, as to whether it is economically feasible considering what your competition can do. I think unless you're really selling some niche item, a product has to both useful and practical (as in easy to use) in order to be popular. That's why Bose does so well, because their products are easy to use plus the fill the need for folks who want to listen to music or want a home theater speaker system that looks good and isn't a hassle to set up. I think the failure of 3D was due to the rewards of a 3D picture not being worth the hassle of having to wear special lenses to view it and also the novelty wore off. The problem I see with Atmos is the hassle of putting up ceiling speakers and even if you get ones that don't go on the ceiling but project the sound upward then you have the issue of multiple speakers in the room that most folks don't want to deal with. That's not to say the demand isn't there, but the question for a company is whether there is sufficient demand to go ahead and manufacture the product. We sit here in the Lounge making all sorts of suggestions and demands of Emo as to what they ought to be making, what features they need to have in their products, etc., and I have to say, Dan is not stupid. He has demonstrated he and Cathy are savvy business people by the company they have built so I'm sure he's carefully considered all these avenues and the impact it would have on the operations of the company. So while it's nice to present our wish lists, and then wonder what is the matter with Emo and why can't they understand anything, most likely they've already considered 99% of it already and have made an intelligent decision about it as it respects their own company. Oh, one of those anti-hot dog people, huh? Hot dogs have as much a right to be eaten as any other food mister! |
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Post by goozoo on Mar 2, 2016 15:18:55 GMT -5
So bonzo, I don't think I've read one way or the other, but are you planning on installing ceiling speakers to go with a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X setup? If so, what processor/receiver will you be entertaining? As they say, pictures are worth a million words. Wires are up the wall and in the ceiling ready to go. My house is a ranch with a full mostly open attic. My media room is literally right next to the garage, where there is easy ceiling access. So putting in 4 speakers would be almost as easy if it were done during the original house construction. As to which processor, that's a very good question. I like the XMC-1 except for the said limitations. I'd like the XMR-1 but $5000 is a ton for a processor (on my income), and I think at the moment it might be overkill for me and my needs. I REALLY like the new Marantz except for the $4000 price tag (an it's lack of a digital toslink or RCA output). The Denon might be a good fit, but haven't seriously looked at it either. The new Anthem is too limited in features. As long as my old Denon keeps working I'm not in any super hurry with this. I'm going to let things play out a bit longer to see where the dust settles. For now I'm just watching and weighing out the options. If there were an XMC-2 that had everything the XMC-1 has now (not taking a single thing away), but added the 7.2 .4 (or better yet 7.2 .6) channels for Atmos / DTS:X / Auro, all for say $3000, I'd buy it for Christmas 2016. And I think that XMC-2 would have a much longer lifespan than the XMC-1. With all that is going on, it would be even wiser to just buy a used AVR with the above features for a fraction of the price and stick in a MiniDSP DDRC88A into the chain for DIRAC or PEQ functionality. After having bought several processors and upgrading, I too am disappointed at the approach Emotiva is taking with their XMC-1 product line. The fact that they won't even upgrade to DTS-X via a firmware swap speaks to their mindset and the fact that XMC-1 owners will need to sell their units to upgrade yet again. Though this time, I don't believe many will accept any promises from Emo as to the upgradeability, etc. To Emotiva's credit, this is the same approach that EVERY manufacturer has taken in the past and will continue to take looking into the future. The truth of the matter is that they need people to keep buying new products over time in order for them to stay in business. As a side note, DTS-X is actually backwards compatible with your current configuration, be it 5.1 or 7.x. This fact has been confirmed numerous times on various forums and at actual shows. So once again, why would Emo not simply follow what other manufacturers are doing via firmware upgrade makes no sense. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Mar 2, 2016 16:43:36 GMT -5
Thank you. From what I can see Atmos is still somewhat of a moving target... at least if you want it to serve some purpose... As of several months ago, it seemed "obvious" that there was no point to implementing Atmos on something with only seven output channels; which is why we had decided to NOT upgrade the XMC-1 to include it (and to wait for the XMR, which would have the appropriate number of channels to do it right). Now we're starting to see cheap receivers sporting "Atmos 5.1.2" stickers. I guess time will tell whether Atmos is "worth doing" with only five surround channels and two height speakers. Companies who make and sell huge quantities of low end home theater kit have the obligation to include every single bell and whistle they can, the day it comes out, if they want to be competitive; in return, they get the luxury of knowing that they can sell plenty of product, regardless of how good or bad it is, if they do in fact include the correct logos on the box. Here at Emotiva, we are doing our best to deliver excellent products, with features that really matter, and the best sound quality we can engineer - and still do so at reasonable prices. This means that we don't want to offer a pre/pro with Atmos unless we can deliver one that works well and sounds really good. In fact, we can't afford to throw away money designing and marketing one that doesn't meet our standards, or those of our customers, just in order to find a home for the latest sticker. Therefore, you will almost certainly see Emotiva pre/pros with Atmos and DTS-X (assuming they do both survive) - just as soon as we can design ones that meet our standards - and that seem likely to meet the needs and desires of our customers. The first one may be the XMR, or maybe an upgrade to the XMC-1, or maybe the XMC-2... or maybe something else altogether. However, rest assured that we won't jump on the band wagon just because it's the latest fad, and neither will we avoid Atmos and DTS-X when we can include them in a great product at a reasonable price. And we do feel that great sound quality is THE most important feature... and that a product that delivers great sound quality will always be relevant. However, to put it bluntly, we aren't going to kill ourselves to compete with the guys who sell that $399 receiver. with so many stickers on it that you barely notice what it sounds like, or with the guys who sell that bleeding edge pre/pro for $20k, which they claim can be upgraded to do everything including faster-than-light drive (but we have our doubts about that).  I have been following this thread. Don't know why and don't really care about any of this. I'm A two channel stereo guy have been for 40 years. Hook my Oppo up to just stereo and watch movies and concerts. For me it is all I want. To each his own, correct. The only reason for my post is the last statement you make. Yes in the 70's I had a subscription to stereo review. But it never influenced me to buy something I did not want. I know weeks before I pull the trigger on something weather or not I'm will purchase. All the Magazine write ups and adds in the world do not influence me much. I buy things I like period no rhyme or reason other then I like it. I never Let "reviews" (to me they are Opinions not reviews)Sway me one way or another. Am I a "audiophile"? Don't know I have a ton of audio gear most I percussed new in the 70's still works. I have new stuff from the past 5 years. So are guys/gals like me in the world of audiophiles/videophiles ? Not every one "jumps " on new things. I was told this same thing 20 some years ago about Vinyl. I hung on to all me vinyl and look it is the "new" hip thing. My point in all this bluster is don't ever assume what others may want. Unless a product is really, really horrible, such as the new Burger King hot dogs, there will always be some sort of demand for a product (even those hot dogs). But the question for a profit-seeking company is whether a contemplated product is going to generate enough demand as well as profits to make it worthwhile. Even if the demand is there you have to consider what your capacity is for making the product and the cost of that product, as to whether it is economically feasible considering what your competition can do. I think unless you're really selling some niche item, a product has to both useful and practical (as in easy to use) in order to be popular. That's why Bose does so well, because their products are easy to use plus the fill the need for folks who want to listen to music or want a home theater speaker system that looks good and isn't a hassle to set up. I think the failure of 3D was due to the rewards of a 3D picture not being worth the hassle of having to wear special lenses to view it and also the novelty wore off. The problem I see with Atmos is the hassle of putting up ceiling speakers and even if you get ones that don't go on the ceiling but project the sound upward then you have the issue of multiple speakers in the room that most folks don't want to deal with. That's not to say the demand isn't there, but the question for a company is whether there is sufficient demand to go ahead and manufacture the product. We sit here in the Lounge making all sorts of suggestions and demands of Emo as to what they ought to be making, what features they need to have in their products, etc., and I have to say, Dan is not stupid. He has demonstrated he and Cathy are savvy business people by the company they have built so I'm sure he's carefully considered all these avenues and the impact it would have on the operations of the company. So while it's nice to present our wish lists, and then wonder what is the matter with Emo and why can't they understand anything, most likely they've already considered 99% of it already and have made an intelligent decision about it as it respects their own company. |
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 2, 2016 16:50:29 GMT -5
I have been following this thread. Don't know why and don't really care about any of this. I'm A two channel stereo guy have been for 40 years. Hook my Oppo up to just stereo and watch movies and concerts. For me it is all I want. To each his own, correct. The only reason for my post is the last statement you make. Yes in the 70's I had a subscription to stereo review. But it never influenced me to buy something I did not want. I know weeks before I pull the trigger on something weather or not I'm will purchase. All the Magazine write ups and adds in the world do not influence me much. I buy things I like period no rhyme or reason other then I like it. I never Let "reviews" (to me they are Opinions not reviews)Sway me one way or another. Am I a "audiophile"? Don't know I have a ton of audio gear most I percussed new in the 70's still works. I have new stuff from the past 5 years. So are guys/gals like me in the world of audiophiles/videophiles ? Not every one "jumps " on new things. I was told this same thing 20 some years ago about Vinyl. I hung on to all me vinyl and look it is the "new" hip thing. My point in all this bluster is don't ever assume what others may want. Unless a product is really, really horrible, such as the new Burger King hot dogs, there will always be some sort of demand for a product (even those hot dogs). But the question for a profit-seeking company is whether a contemplated product is going to generate enough demand as well as profits to make it worthwhile. Even if the demand is there you have to consider what your capacity is for making the product and the cost of that product, as to whether it is economically feasible considering what your competition can do. I think unless you're really selling some niche item, a product has to both useful and practical (as in easy to use) in order to be popular. That's why Bose does so well, because their products are easy to use plus the fill the need for folks who want to listen to music or want a home theater speaker system that looks good and isn't a hassle to set up. I think the failure of 3D was due to the rewards of a 3D picture not being worth the hassle of having to wear special lenses to view it and also the novelty wore off. The problem I see with Atmos is the hassle of putting up ceiling speakers and even if you get ones that don't go on the ceiling but project the sound upward then you have the issue of multiple speakers in the room that most folks don't want to deal with. That's not to say the demand isn't there, but the question for a company is whether there is sufficient demand to go ahead and manufacture the product. We sit here in the Lounge making all sorts of suggestions and demands of Emo as to what they ought to be making, what features they need to have in their products, etc., and I have to say, Dan is not stupid. He has demonstrated he and Cathy are savvy business people by the company they have built so I'm sure he's carefully considered all these avenues and the impact it would have on the operations of the company. So while it's nice to present our wish lists, and then wonder what is the matter with Emo and why can't they understand anything, most likely they've already considered 99% of it already and have made an intelligent decision about it as it respects their own company. I agree with you and that is my point. Just because you say the hot dogs at burger king are not good does not mean I will not try one. Just like if I read a super "review" from a well known Hot dog aficionado does not mean I will run there like a racing sausage to eat them either. Just like all audiophiles will run out to buy the next big thing. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 2, 2016 16:59:36 GMT -5
Unless a product is really, really horrible, such as the new Burger King hot dogs, there will always be some sort of demand for a product (even those hot dogs). But the question for a profit-seeking company is whether a contemplated product is going to generate enough demand as well as profits to make it worthwhile. Even if the demand is there you have to consider what your capacity is for making the product and the cost of that product, as to whether it is economically feasible considering what your competition can do. I think unless you're really selling some niche item, a product has to both useful and practical (as in easy to use) in order to be popular. That's why Bose does so well, because their products are easy to use plus the fill the need for folks who want to listen to music or want a home theater speaker system that looks good and isn't a hassle to set up. I think the failure of 3D was due to the rewards of a 3D picture not being worth the hassle of having to wear special lenses to view it and also the novelty wore off. The problem I see with Atmos is the hassle of putting up ceiling speakers and even if you get ones that don't go on the ceiling but project the sound upward then you have the issue of multiple speakers in the room that most folks don't want to deal with. That's not to say the demand isn't there, but the question for a company is whether there is sufficient demand to go ahead and manufacture the product. We sit here in the Lounge making all sorts of suggestions and demands of Emo as to what they ought to be making, what features they need to have in their products, etc., and I have to say, Dan is not stupid. He has demonstrated he and Cathy are savvy business people by the company they have built so I'm sure he's carefully considered all these avenues and the impact it would have on the operations of the company. So while it's nice to present our wish lists, and then wonder what is the matter with Emo and why can't they understand anything, most likely they've already considered 99% of it already and have made an intelligent decision about it as it respects their own company. I agree with you and that is my point. Just because you say the hot dogs at burger king are not good does not mean I will not try one. Just like if I read a super "review" from a well known Hot dog aficionado does not mean I will run there like a racing sausage to eat them either. Just like all audiophiles will run out to buy the next big thing. You mean you don't trust my taste in hot dogs? Okay, go try one yourself. You'll be sorry for not following my advice. |
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
Posts: 947
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 2, 2016 17:56:20 GMT -5
I agree with you and that is my point. Just because you say the hot dogs at burger king are not good does not mean I will not try one. Just like if I read a super "review" from a well known Hot dog aficionado does not mean I will run there like a racing sausage to eat them either. Just like all audiophiles will run out to buy the next big thing. You mean you don't trust my taste in hot dogs? Okay, go try one yourself. You'll be sorry for not following my advice. Although, I do like me a good Chi dog(Portillo's in Chicago are awesome )The last time I was there I ate 6 of em. But now I'm old and shouldn't eat that much any more  . I won't be running over to BK to try one soon. Our BK cant make a hot whopper so how good will the hot dog be. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 19:08:39 GMT -5
As long as no one starts telling me how awesome Cincinnati based Sky Line Chili dogs are I'll be fine.  |
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Post by Talley on Mar 2, 2016 19:54:14 GMT -5
The XMC-1 wasn't cheap for me, but I feel it'll do just nice for years to come for me. I'm not jumping on board w/ the atmos/dtx thing for some time. Honestly I think OPPO will release a player that will offer decoding of this built in and this will keep my xmc in my rack for a long time. I'm 50/50 music/movies so for music the XMC has been pretty solid performer.
Until all this stuff gets settled the xmc is good to go. I'd say it has 2 more years of life and then it'll need to be replaced... I'll keep mine longer though.
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Post by supermac on Mar 2, 2016 20:17:47 GMT -5
Remember, it says in determining what constitutes "virtually all of the content" it is not the percentage of the parts, but the percentage of the cost of total manufacture. As an example let's say your product has 500 parts, of which 450 are from foreign sources, and 50 are 100% U.S. content, and the product is fully assembled in the U.S.A. Now let's say the cost of the foreign parts is 2% of the total manufacturing cost, with 70% the cost of labor and software, and the remaining 28% the cost of other U.S.A. parts, it easily qualifies as Made in the U.S.A. Even if the other 28% of the manufactured in U.S.A. parts contained some foreign content (as may happen with a processor designed and fabricated in the U.S.A.) the percentage of foreign content of that part will only have a negligible effect on the overall foreign percentage of that part. That is because the cost of that part to the subsequent user is used to calculate foreign content (i.e. the cost of foreign parts divided by the entire cost of the part to the end manufacturer (including the suppliers' profit). An interesting read, but it doesn't belong in this thread. Why doesn't it belong? I read Bonzo's comment about "Made in the USA" and wanted to research so I could form my own opinion and post the link so others who may have an interest in the concepts can be informed and decide from themselves. |
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Post by indyscammer on Mar 2, 2016 20:44:14 GMT -5
You mean you don't trust my taste in hot dogs? Okay, go try one yourself. You'll be sorry for not following my advice. Although, I do like me a good Chi dog(Portillo's in Chicago are awesome )The last time I was there I ate 6 of em. But now I'm old and shouldn't eat that much any more . I won't be running over to BK to try one soon. Our BK cant make a hot whopper so how good will the hot dog be. Portillos Rocks! Back to the regularly scheduled thread.......  |
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Post by ribbonking on Mar 3, 2016 1:16:13 GMT -5
Staying off topic, I've been to the Portillo's in Vernon Hills a couple times (my wife is from Northbrook) and we're going to the one in Tempe, AZ next week when we are there for a Cubs' spring training game. They do have excellent hot dogs and they are also serving them now at Sloan Park, Cubs AZ headquarters.
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Post by markc on Mar 3, 2016 4:48:33 GMT -5
I think everybody is missing an important reality and dreaming an unrealistic world for themselves and their XMC-1....
The XMC-1 is already at a very good price point for the features it has.
If you want more channels and more capabilities such as DTS-X or Atmos then buy the next model up in the range (XMR-1) (I know! There is no horizon for it yet!) or a different brand.
Or, when the XMC-2 comes out, upgrade and buy that, as new versions tend to have more updated features.
When the Oppo BDP-105 came out, no-one expected Oppo to upgrade their 103 to the more fully featured model and send them the analog out boards.
If I were Emotiva, I would not waste time, energy and resource into installing new hardware features into an old model and I do not think we should expect them too. They should be developing the next step.
Yes, the blurb says it has the modularity to be upgraded but so does a car. I'm sure my 8 year old Mercedes could have a newer model engine installed with some changes to the engine mounts etc and that would give me the latest, more efficient engine, with stop-start technology, greater fuel efficiency etc etc. The seats could be swopped out to the new version with electronic lumbar support adjustment as standard. We simply should not expect this to occur!
If it does become possible, then we should have to pay for it, much like the fairly recently announced charge for the HDMI upgrade board.
In the same way, my home PC is "infinitely" upgradeable to keep pace with technological advances but I do not expect the supplier to do this for me. I have a tower case and I can buy a new motherboard and/or a new graphics card and/or new hard drives and/or a new power supply and/or new memory and/or a new operating system. Then, it would look like the same PC, but most definitely not be!
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. I won't be running over to BK to try one soon. Our BK cant make a hot whopper so how good will the hot dog be. 
