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Post by mickseymour on Mar 3, 2016 7:55:12 GMT -5
Yes, the blurb says it has the modularity to be upgraded but so does a car. I'm sure my 8 year old Mercedes could have a newer model engine installed with some changes to the engine mounts etc and that would give me the latest, more efficient engine, with stop-start technology, greater fuel efficiency etc etc. The seats could be swopped out to the new version with electronic lumbar support adjustment as standard. We simply should not expect this to occur! I agree with what you say. However, Mercedes do not market their cars as modular and upgradable so that isn't a good analogy. I'm sure Emotiva had the dream that they could upgrade the XMC-1 over time but what we've read here shows it is only a dream. Now, if only they would remove the offending 'Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience' paragraph from their web site, people would stop believing it. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Mar 3, 2016 8:22:24 GMT -5
Remember, it says ... ... An interesting read, but it doesn't belong in this thread. Why doesn't it belong? I read Bonzo's comment about "Made in the USA" and wanted to research so I could form my own opinion and post the link so others who may have an interest in the concepts can be informed and decide from themselves. It's good information, but your post is loaded with information, and can lead to a very big set of off topic postings. Since this topic is "Will XMC1 receive dtsx firmware upgrade?" your post deserves it's own thread.
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 3, 2016 10:20:18 GMT -5
Yes, the blurb says it has the modularity to be upgraded but so does a car. I'm sure my 8 year old Mercedes could have a newer model engine installed with some changes to the engine mounts etc and that would give me the latest, more efficient engine, with stop-start technology, greater fuel efficiency etc etc. The seats could be swopped out to the new version with electronic lumbar support adjustment as standard. We simply should not expect this to occur! However, Mercedes do not market their cars as modular and upgradable so that isn't a good analogy. I'm sure Emotiva had the dream that they could upgrade the XMC-1 over time but what we've read here shows it is only a dream. Now, if only they would remove the offending 'Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience' paragraph from their web site, people would stop believing it. +1. Exactly. And the Mercedes thing is a BAD analogy. Sorry markc but you are the one missing the point. Emotiva heavily touted upgradability when they were developing the XMC-1, when the XMC-1 was in pre-order, when it finally came up for sale, and they are STILL doing it now. Emotiva is the one flagrantly selling the issue. It's a main bullet point in their sales pitch. As it stands, the XMC-1 still hasn't actually had a single upgrade. The single HDMI input swap is coming up, but is that really something to write home about? (And that upgrade even had/has controversy). I would think that when many people thought about the word "upgrade," for the processor world they maybe considered that to mostly mean the XMC-1 could handle new codecs that came down the pike (and or maybe it could do some new internet connections etc). But guess what, when the very first new codecs came down the pike, the XMC-1 is (so far) a big fail. It's not handling what is most likely it's easiest challenge. Could it be upgraded? Sounds like that's a big maybe, but Emotiva has said over and over they aren't even considering it at this time. (Although Keith has hinted that may be changing since 5.2.2 is something people seem to be interested in). So I ask, what other upgrades could Emotiva be talking about? Really, I'd like to know and be informed, because perhaps I'm missing something. They can't upgrade the number of channels. They can't upgrade it to vary what outputs do what. They aren't willing to upgrade how the inputs assignment thing works. So what then? Upgrades to Dirac? Upgrades to computer / server options etc? Future upgrades to say HDMI 3.0? Really, I'd like to know. So as it is, I totally agree with mickseymour. They really need to remove the tag line. At the very least it's yet another misnomer, and certainly an exaggerated truth. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 3, 2016 10:42:12 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you there. The XMC-1 is indeed modular - and upgradable. The XMC-1 - as sold - is HDMI 1.4a. We are currently manufacturing the new boards that will allow users to upgrade to a single HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 input on their XMC-1. And we will be offering a four-port HDMI 2.0 (or HDMI 2.0a) board somewhere around the end of the year. (And, when HDMI 3.0 comes out, if it makes sense, we may offer a board upgrade for that.) Compare this to almost all other HDMI 1.4a pre/pros on the market, at any price; only very few of them can be upgraded to HDMI 2.0. (And at rather high cost. Some TVs can be "upgraded" using firmware alone, but those are all really recent models that already had the hardware, and were just waiting for standard-compliant firmware to go with it.) However, noting is absolute. I COULD upgrade my Nissan versa to a Mercedes (buy a Mercedes chassis, engine, and interior, put them together, then transfer the Nissan logo onto it). However, it wouldn't make sense - it would cost $5 more than simply replacing my Nissan with a Mercedes. Likewise, I suppose you COULD replace the audio boards and the processors in the XMC-1 (and you could replace the power supply if necessary as well). However, doing so would cost more than building a whole new unit.. In the case of Atmos and DTS-X, we could in fact upgrade the XMC-1's processor board to handle either, but we are limited by the rear panel connections. And, to be honest, up until a few months ago, both recommended at least 9.2 channels - and it seemed like the 7.2 channels the XMC-1 has connections for would be "less than optimal". (And, do you really want to pay a significant amount of money to upgrade to a "less than optimal" implementation.) Now, "suddenly", some folks seem to be claiming that Atmos and DTS-X "make sense" with even 5.1 channels..... Honestly, we're not so sure..... To put it simply - when we say "modular and upgradable", we consider "when it makes sense" to be assumed... Yes, the blurb says it has the modularity to be upgraded but so does a car. I'm sure my 8 year old Mercedes could have a newer model engine installed with some changes to the engine mounts etc and that would give me the latest, more efficient engine, with stop-start technology, greater fuel efficiency etc etc. The seats could be swopped out to the new version with electronic lumbar support adjustment as standard. We simply should not expect this to occur! I agree with what you say. However, Mercedes do not market their cars as modular and upgradable so that isn't a good analogy. I'm sure Emotiva had the dream that they could upgrade the XMC-1 over time but what we've read here shows it is only a dream. Now, if only they would remove the offending 'Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience' paragraph from their web site, people would stop believing it. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 3, 2016 11:33:00 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you there. The XMC-1 is indeed modular - and upgradable. The XMC-1 - as sold - is HDMI 1.4a. We are currently manufacturing the new boards that will allow users to upgrade to a single HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 input on their XMC-1. And we will be offering a four-port HDMI 2.0 (or HDMI 2.0a) board somewhere around the end of the year. (And, when HDMI 3.0 comes out, if it makes sense, we may offer a board upgrade for that.) Compare this to almost all other HDMI 1.4a pre/pros on the market, at any price; only very few of them can be upgraded to HDMI 2.0. (And at rather high cost. Some TVs can be "upgraded" using firmware alone, but those are all really recent models that already had the hardware, and were just waiting for standard-compliant firmware to go with it.) However, noting is absolute. I COULD upgrade my Nissan versa to a Mercedes (buy a Mercedes chassis, engine, and interior, put them together, then transfer the Nissan logo onto it). However, it wouldn't make sense - it would cost $5 more than simply replacing my Nissan with a Mercedes. Likewise, I suppose you COULD replace the audio boards and the processors in the XMC-1 (and you could replace the power supply if necessary as well). However, doing so would cost more than building a whole new unit.. In the case of Atmos and DTS-X, we could in fact upgrade the XMC-1's processor board to handle either, but we are limited by the rear panel connections. And, to be honest, up until a few months ago, both recommended at least 9.2 channels - and it seemed like the 7.2 channels the XMC-1 has connections for would be "less than optimal". (And, do you really want to pay a significant amount of money to upgrade to a "less than optimal" implementation.) Now, "suddenly", some folks seem to be claiming that Atmos and DTS-X "make sense" with even 5.1 channels..... Honestly, we're not so sure..... To put it simply - when we say "modular and upgradable", we consider "when it makes sense" to be assumed... So perhaps you could read my post just above yours and answer the question I proposed? You sort of hint to an answer in your post. That the only real thing the XMC-1 can upgrade is the HDMI segment. And you could upgrade it to handle Atmos/DTS:X/Auro, but are not sure that makes sense due to the rear panel limitations. So I'll ask it again in a bit different way. What warrants the tag line "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come." in the sales pitch? |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 3, 2016 12:12:03 GMT -5
However, Mercedes do not market their cars as modular and upgradable so that isn't a good analogy. I'm sure Emotiva had the dream that they could upgrade the XMC-1 over time but what we've read here shows it is only a dream. Now, if only they would remove the offending 'Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience' paragraph from their web site, people would stop believing it. +1. Exactly. And the Mercedes thing is a BAD analogy. Sorry markc but you are the one missing the point. Emotiva heavily touted upgradability when they were developing the XMC-1, when the XMC-1 was in pre-order, when it finally came up for sale, and they are STILL doing it now. Emotiva is the one flagrantly selling the issue. It's a main bullet point in their sales pitch. As it stands, the XMC-1 still hasn't actually had a single upgrade. The single HDMI input swap is coming up, but is that really something to write home about? (And that upgrade even had/has controversy). I would think that when many people thought about the word "upgrade," for the processor world they maybe considered that to mostly mean the XMC-1 could handle new codecs that came down the pike (and or maybe it could do some new internet connections etc). But guess what, when the very first new codecs came down the pike, the XMC-1 is (so far) a big fail. It's not handling what is most likely it's easiest challenge. Could it be upgraded? Sounds like that's a big maybe, but Emotiva has said over and over they aren't even considering it at this time. (Although Keith has hinted that may be changing since 5.2.2 is something people seem to be interested in). So I ask, what other upgrades could Emotiva be talking about? Really, I'd like to know and be informed, because perhaps I'm missing something. They can't upgrade the number of channels. They can't upgrade it to vary what outputs do what. They aren't willing to upgrade how the inputs assignment thing works. So what then? Upgrades to Dirac? Upgrades to computer / server options etc? Future upgrades to say HDMI 3.0? Really, I'd like to know. So as it is, I totally agree with mickseymour. They really need to remove the tag line. At the very least it's yet another misnomer, and certainly an exaggerated truth. Would be very interested in knowing if Emotiva will be implementing any Dirac updates or upgrades? |
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guitarforlife
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 3, 2016 12:32:32 GMT -5
This is very simple. Emotiva Has a great product at a great price. But to badger them (AKA) Keith for pages over a add is kind of a waste of time, don't you think? I believe he HAS answered all questions from Emos point of view.
Maybe better time Listening to Music on their system. There are other products and manufactures out there that may make what you like/ or need now. Buy them instead.
I cant see ware this is helping anyone neither them or you.
As a business stand point I get it, The owners have a idea of what they want their company to be and what their limitations may be as well as expected sales. But their comes a point in any ones business ware the customer is not right. The customer is not always right because they (the business owners) are not always wrong. I know at this point we are spoiled and used to getting our way. But good God there comes a time to stop beating a dead horse and move on.
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tknice
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Post by tknice on Mar 3, 2016 16:28:58 GMT -5
I still love the idea of using zone 2 for height channels. If it's possible, has anyone commented on whether it would be both a hardware and software change, or just software?
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Post by skippy1977 on Mar 3, 2016 16:52:48 GMT -5
This is very simple. Emotiva Has a great product at a great price. But to badger them (AKA) Keith for pages over a add is kind of a waste of time, don't you think? I believe he HAS answered all questions from Emos point of view. Maybe better time Listening to Music on their system. There are other products and manufactures out there that may make what you like/ or need now. Buy them instead. I cant see ware this is helping anyone neither them or you. As a business stand point I get it, The owners have a idea of what they want their company to be and what their limitations may be as well as expected sales. But their comes a point in any ones business ware the customer is not right. The customer is not always right because they (the business owners) are not always wrong. I know at this point we are spoiled and used to getting our way. But good God there comes a time to stop beating a dead horse and move on. I agree that the XMC-1 is an excellent prepro for the money and I'm enjoying mine very much.
But as Bonzo posted:
"Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come."
Emotiva states the above in the XMC-1 product page and in my opinion XMC-1 owners have the right to ask about what future upgrades might or might not be happening.
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 3, 2016 17:20:01 GMT -5
When I read this "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come" this is what I understand it to mean;
Let's start with "planned obsolescence", many other audio manufacturers release new models every year, plainly they "plan" to make last year's model obsolete. They commonly know what standards, software, hardware etc is in next years model before they sell this years. They didn't engineer it into the product development cycle for this year's model, but will for next year's. Emotiva can't possibly plan for what they don't know. If a standard, software, hardware requirement comes along that they weren't aware of then how can they possibly plan for it. In simple terms, some people are confusing planned obsolescence with unplanned obsolescence.
I'm no genius, but even I've worked out that Emotiva, due to its size and hence resources, doesn't have an annual product cycle. Their engineering and product development process is way longer than that, especially for complex equipment like HT processors. I know that if something (standards,hardware, software) comes along late in that product cycle that they can't possibly plan it into the product. Amos, DTS-X, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0, HECV 265 etc etc came along late, very late in the XMC-1 development process and in fact some well after the XMC-1 was launched. So I worked out that it's pretty unlikely that all of them will able to be be cost effectively upgraded within the XMC-1 chassis.
The hardware confines are another tell tale, there are a physically limited number of inputs and outputs. After a quick look at the back panel pictures it don't take me long to work out that, for example, 9.2.4 simply wouldn't fit. Maybe I missed it but I can't recall reading where Emotiva said that they would provide a break out box to overcome any physical limitations. I actually talked about a 2 box solution for XMR-1 in several posts, but I don't recall anyone from Emotiva suggesting that it was remotely possible.
When I read the above I take it as meaning the XMC-1 is modular and upgradeable for 7.2 HT within the confines of the current knowledge base. It's unreasonable to expect a product, any product, to be infinitely upgradeable, especially upgradable to unknown standards and requirements. And especially when cost effectiveness is included. They're just unrealistic expectations.
In regards to cost effectiveness, Emotiva has a responsibility to its owners and its customers to be profitable. If it was unprofitable then we the customers would't get ongoing service, warranty, parts, support, etc Right now my view is that Atmos and DTS-X and Auro would be unprofitable for Emotiva to get involved in. The market is simply too small, the standards, firmware, software and hardware are all far from settled. Commercially I see it as a good decision to wait, then engineer a product that knocks the sox of anything else around that cost many times the price. That's what Emotiva is famous for, why we buy their stuff, not bleeding edge product releases. Personally I'm very comfortable with those types of business decisions.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 3, 2016 17:20:57 GMT -5
I still love the idea of using zone 2 for height channels. If it's possible, has anyone commented on whether it would be both a hardware and software change, or just software? Back on Page #2 of this thread. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/802380/threadSounds like it's not in the cards, at least for an XMC-1. Kinda of a bummer since really, the XMC-1 has a ton of outputs if they could be reassigned somehow. The Zone outputs would be perfect for many as we've discussed. And all 7 of the amp channels actually have 2 outputs, an XLR and an RCA. What if the RCA for the Surround Left could be the Ceiling Left Front, the Surround Left Back could be the Ceiling Left Back, and the same for the right side. This would leave the 3 other RCA's open so people could still do the work around for passive bi-amping of the front 3 channels if desired. It would force people to buy XLR cables, but I for one would consider that a minor price to pay. I'm sure it's a lot easier to talk about than actually implementing, and I'm not going to question them on that. I have no clue. But it would certainly be very cool. JMO. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 3, 2016 17:57:10 GMT -5
The XMC-1 itself is made up of several modules... including.... The HDMI switching board The audio I/O boards The processor and decoder boards The power supply The front panel processor board And the cabinet (which itself is in several pieces). Any or all of these CAN be replaced. So, yes, we could in fact replace the rear panel, the audio I/O boards, and the decoder board, and end up with an XMC-1 that could decode a dozen channels of Atmos. However, since redesigning and replacing all those boards would end up costing somewhat more than an entire new processor, we didn't really think anyone would be interested in buying it. In fact, we could take all those parts, put them in a new chassis, charge you $5k for it, and let you keep your current serial number... and call it "an upgrade". But we figured it would be easier to just call it an XMR instead. So, if you can find a few hundred people who would really be willing to pay $5k for an Atmos upgrade for their XMC-1, then we'd probably be willing to talk about it. (Since we know at least one company who charges half that much for a simple HDMI board upgrade, I suppose it wouldn't even be out of line..... ) ........................................... So perhaps you could read my post just above yours and answer the question I proposed? You sort of hint to an answer in your post. That the only real thing the XMC-1 can upgrade is the HDMI segment. And you could upgrade it to handle Atmos/DTS:X/Auro, but are not sure that makes sense due to the rear panel limitations. So I'll ask it again in a bit different way. What warrants the tag line "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come." in the sales pitch? |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 3, 2016 17:58:19 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that EVERYONE here wants Emotiva to be successful. We are all on the same side. Just a difference of opinion on the lack of admitting that the XMC-1 isn't going to last 10-15 years due to hardware limitations thus making it less upgradable and future proof as Big Dan was led to believe. I'm on the campaign trail to bring back UFL since "upgradable pre-pro" is an oxymoron like "honest politician " and my name ain't _____  . |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 3, 2016 17:58:29 GMT -5
When I read this "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come" this is what I understand it to mean; Let's start with "planned obsolescence", many other audio manufacturers release new models every year, plainly they "plan" to make last year's model obsolete. They commonly know what standards, software, hardware etc is in next years model before they sell this years. They didn't engineer it into the product development cycle for this year's model, but will for next year's. Emotiva can't possibly plan for what they don't know. If a standard, software, hardware requirement comes along that they weren't aware of then how can they possibly plan for it. In simple terms, some people are confusing planned obsolescence with unplanned obsolescence. I'm no genius, but even I've worked out that Emotiva, due to its size and hence resources, doesn't have an annual product cycle. Their engineering and product development process is way longer than that, especially for complex equipment like HT processors. I know that if something (standards,hardware, software) comes along late in that product cycle that they can't possibly plan it into the product. Amos, DTS-X, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0, HECV 265 etc etc came along late, very late in the XMC-1 development process and in fact some well after the XMC-1 was launched. So I worked out that it's pretty unlikely that all of them will able to be be cost effectively upgraded within the XMC-1 chassis. The hardware confines are another tell tale, there are a physically limited number of inputs and outputs. After a quick look at the back panel pictures it don't take me long to work out that, for example, 9.2.4 simply wouldn't fit. Maybe I missed it but I can't recall reading where Emotiva said that they would provide a break out box to overcome any physical limitations. I actually talked about a 2 box solution for XMR-1 in several posts, but I don't recall anyone from Emotiva suggesting that it was remotely possible. When I read the above I take it as meaning the XMC-1 is modular and upgradeable for 7.2 HT within the confines of the current knowledge base. It's unreasonable to expect a product, any product, to be infinitely upgradeable, especially upgradable to unknown standards and requirements. And especially when cost effectiveness is included. They're just unrealistic expectations. In regards to cost effectiveness, Emotiva has a responsibility to its owners and its customers to be profitable. If it was unprofitable then we the customers would't get ongoing service, warranty, parts, support, etc Right now my view is that Atmos and DTS-X and Auro would be unprofitable for Emotiva to get involved in. The market is simply too small, the standards, firmware, software and hardware are all far from settled. Commercially I see it as a good decision to wait, then engineer a product that knocks the sox of anything else around that cost many times the price. That's what Emotiva is famous for, why we buy their stuff, not bleeding edge product releases. Personally I'm very comfortable with those types of business decisions. Cheers Gary I agree with what you said and I am perfectly happy with my XMC-1. However, the question arises as to the definition of "upgrade." The problem is it is hard to define such a thing but if you don't, then everyone has their own interpretation or definition of what that means. Something like HDMI 2.0 that can be incorporated into the existing configuration seems like a no-brainer because it improves (or supposedly so) upon an existing version of what is already in the unit. But something like Atmos can arguably be outside of what the configuration or concept of the XMC-1 can encompass. Even so, others won't agree with me and say that being "completely modular and upgradeable" implies a very wide scope. I guess a statement like that has the potential to open a can of worms since who knows what the future holds, and who knows how other people are interpreting that statement. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 3, 2016 18:06:53 GMT -5
The XMC-1 itself is made up of several modules... including.... The HDMI switching board The audio I/O boards The processor and decoder boards The power supply The front panel processor board And the cabinet (which itself is in several pieces). Any or all of these CAN be replaced. So, yes, we could in fact replace the rear panel, the audio I/O boards, and the decoder board, and end up with an XMC-1 that could decode a dozen channels of Atmos. However, since redesigning and replacing all those boards would end up costing somewhat more than an entire new processor, we didn't really think anyone would be interested in buying it. In fact, we could take all those parts, put them in a new chassis, charge you $5k for it, and let you keep your current serial number... and call it "an upgrade". But we figured it would be easier to just call it an XMR instead. So, if you can find a few hundred people who would really be willing to pay $5k for an Atmos upgrade for their XMC-1, then we'd probably be willing to talk about it. (Since we know at least one company who charges half that much for a simple HDMI board upgrade, I suppose it wouldn't even be out of line..... ) To omit feasibility is the same thing as me saying I can sleep with Adriana Lima because it's physically possible. The reasonableness factor is obviously implied. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 3, 2016 18:16:38 GMT -5
When I read this "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience - Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come" this is what I understand it to mean; Let's start with "planned obsolescence", many other audio manufacturers release new models every year, plainly they "plan" to make last year's model obsolete. They commonly know what standards, software, hardware etc is in next years model before they sell this years. They didn't engineer it into the product development cycle for this year's model, but will for next year's. Emotiva can't possibly plan for what they don't know. If a standard, software, hardware requirement comes along that they weren't aware of then how can they possibly plan for it. In simple terms, some people are confusing planned obsolescence with unplanned obsolescence. I'm no genius, but even I've worked out that Emotiva, due to its size and hence resources, doesn't have an annual product cycle. Their engineering and product development process is way longer than that, especially for complex equipment like HT processors. I know that if something (standards,hardware, software) comes along late in that product cycle that they can't possibly plan it into the product. Amos, DTS-X, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0, HECV 265 etc etc came along late, very late in the XMC-1 development process and in fact some well after the XMC-1 was launched. So I worked out that it's pretty unlikely that all of them will be cost effectively upgraded within the XMC-1 chassis. I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong here. Not at all. On this point I am only saying that Emotiva's tag line is a misnomer, and is not much more than exaggerated hype. I think you are reading their tag line with a very liberal loose interpretation. Perhaps that's how it's meant to be taken, whether intentional or unintentionally. But I and many others are not reading it that way. A simple way to say how many are feeling is to say that it's bull schiit really, pure hog wash. Just the line "all main system components can be upgraded as needed" for example. What does this mean to you? To me it means all the main parts can be exchanged easily for different ones. So if all the internals can be swapped out, why couldn't there be true changes made? I don't know, but they shouldn't say it if it can't be done. I find it amusing you used the exact word "standards" in your post, and said there is no way Emotiva could possibly plan for that. Yet Emotiva uses that exact same word saying "completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards." So which is it? You can't have both. Either you are wrong or Emotiva's tag line is wrong. I think you and others are basically giving them a free pass excuse. But to my point asked before, if I am wrong here, then what EXACTLY does Emotiva constitute as fitting their tag line? HDMI is #1. But what's #2? Currently not new codecs or dded channels. Dirac upgrades? What? That's what I'm asking. What? I really would like to know. Not true, IF things could be reconfigured internally with a future XMC-2. Perhaps you haven't been reading, but the proposal is to make it so the Zone 1 & 2 outputs could be configured to do 4 ceiling speakers. You jumped to 9.2.4, but we are just discussing the next evolution of 7.2.4. (Which I believe to be a long time stopping point for the vast majority, as like 7.1 has been for 10+ years). We asked if this was a simple task, or if it required a major overhaul, and the basic answer we got was, unfortunately, it's a major task, and has not really even been considered. I guess to that I would say that I think they need to start taking notes for the XMC-2 and make this a top priority when the time comes. Which we all like to see as soon as possible. 5 years from now is too late for sure. So you are basically saying that upgrades don't have anything to do with future new technologies in terms of feature sets, but more to do with say, better parts. Like for example if someone comes up with a more refined DAC, that it could be implemented to improve the XMC-1's sound. Yes? I'm just trying to understand your meanings. I mostly agree here. Perhaps I'm being misunderstood by some, but I'm trying to help Emotiva. Sometimes people need tough love. I don't expect them to be cutting edge in terms of features. But I also don't want them thinking 4 (or even 6) height channels doesn't matter to many because they will loose business. In the world of processors, that equates to loosing business faster than slower. The next few years will be dominated with talk of Atmos and DTS:X. That's a fact. How it works out in terms of the listening experience, hardware, source material etc has yet to be seen. It could take off or it could flounder like 3D. Ceiling speakers could be the Achilles heel to Atmos/DTS:X/Auro as glasses were to 3D. We just don't know. It's very possible the trend will go so fast that the XMC-1 can ride the waves and make it out unscathed on the other side. We just don't know. But what I will say is that if Emotiva could upgrade the XMC-1 to an XMC-2 version, making almost no other changes other than to achieve making 4 ceiling channels possible for Atmos/DTS:X/Auro, and could keep it at the current $2500-$3000 price point, it would do nothing but greatly improve the lifetime sales of the XMC-1 (XMC-2) sans other needed improvements. Having to jump all the way to a $5000+ XMR-1 just to get Atmos/DTS:X/Auro and more channels is a taxing jump. |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 3, 2016 18:29:31 GMT -5
So, if you can find a few hundred people who would really be willing to pay $5k for an Atmos upgrade for their XMC-1, then we'd probably be willing to talk about it. (Since we know at least one company who charges half that much for a simple HDMI board upgrade, I suppose it wouldn't even be out of line..... ) You are exaggerating what's being asked, at least by me anyway. The XMR-1 as told by Dan would be much more than just an XMC-1 with more decoding and more channels. Much if not most of the added cost would be making it all 100% completely balanced, all 16 channels of it. We are basically asking for 11 channels (4 additional), 9 of which can just simply be unbalanced as they are now. That's it. If that requires a major overhaul making it an XMC-2 than so be it. If you can't do that because it costs too much and fear there would be no profit, then that's unfortunate for everyone, including Emotiva. It's my opinion and my opinion only, but I think these 4 channels we are all discussing would go a long way to making the XMC-2 a super long time contender. I think it would make this a 10 year component. I have to run for the night. Cheers ---- Bonzo |
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Post by supermac on Mar 3, 2016 18:55:58 GMT -5
Why doesn't it belong? I read Bonzo's comment about "Made in the USA" and wanted to research so I could form my own opinion and post the link so others who may have an interest in the concepts can be informed and decide from themselves. It's good information, but your post is loaded with information, and can lead to a very big set of off topic postings. Since this topic is "Will XMC1 receive dtsx firmware upgrade?" your post deserves it's own thread.
Copy that ElTwo and partly why - other than time - I provided the reference and not much else, so that - should someone care to read it in regard to Bonzo's statements about Emo's statements. But I see where you are coming from - it could very well deserve it's own thread. But hey - looks like our forum is getting discipline - the banter is staying on topic. How does Keith and Bonzo find time... and pretty fair point counter-point discussion. But now I lost 15 minutes of my life working through in my mind how a Nissan Versa could actually be converted to a 'benz  |
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Post by yeeeha17 on Mar 3, 2016 19:01:09 GMT -5
So why make it upgradable when you are saying it's cheaper to buy a whole new unit.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 3, 2016 19:17:14 GMT -5
I still love the idea of using zone 2 for height channels. If it's possible, has anyone commented on whether it would be both a hardware and software change, or just software? Dead horse. |
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