|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 20, 2016 22:35:41 GMT -5
You must have only caught part #1. Actually I was trying to stick the the OP who asked if the XMC-1 could be upgraded, not whether they could build another unit (which somewhat defeats the concept of an upgradeable product). Personally, I'm currently happy with the XMC-1 the way it is, eventually I may want better 4K capabilities, and possibly Atmos/DTS:X, I'm thinking the XMR-1 may meet those needs. Maybe after they deliver that unit they could strip it down to build something like you describe. |
|
|
|
Post by etc6849 on Feb 21, 2016 10:48:11 GMT -5
Me too. Would have more of an effect than 7.1. Switched to 5.1 with matching towers and don't miss 7.1. |
|
|
|
Post by LuisV on Feb 21, 2016 12:08:02 GMT -5
Let me start by saying that I absolutely love my Emotiva gear and recommend the brand as a whole to others all the time. I don't want to start an argument, nor am I bad mouthing Emotiva in anyway, but I'm a little confused by this statement on the XMC-1's web page and need some clarification from the Emo team:
"Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience
Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come."
What exactly does this mean as I purchased my XMC-1 with that in mind... flexibility and to forget obsolescence. I think we're missing this key element in our DTS:X, Atmos, HDMI 2.x, etc. type discussions as the goal of the XMC-1 or at last my goal of making the purchase was exactly that... "Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards."
|
|
|
|
Post by Talley on Feb 21, 2016 13:59:37 GMT -5
About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.
The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)
HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.
As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.
FYI for my particular room all I'm looking for is a 5.1.2 setup. |
|
|
|
Post by LuisV on Feb 21, 2016 14:04:54 GMT -5
I read what Keith wrote, but I'll reference my previous comment of which is on the XMC-1 product page... "Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come." "Possible", "back on the table" and such remarks, don't make sense as the XMC-1 is supposed to be flexible and modular. If DTS indicates that there is an audible difference and other brands are offering the upgrade, then why is this not the case with the XMC-1?
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 22, 2016 0:54:41 GMT -5
I read what Keith wrote, but I'll reference my previous comment of which is on the XMC-1 product page... "Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come." "Possible", "back on the table" and such remarks, don't make sense as the XMC-1 is supposed to be flexible and modular. If DTS indicates that there is an audible difference and other brands are offering the upgrade, then why is this not the case with the XMC-1? I think that's all fair within the framework that the XMC-1 is an HDMI / 7.2 processor. If a new standard can be implemented within that framework then it should be on the table – like HDMI/HDCP 2.x and Atmos or DTS:X in 5.1.2. Expecting the XMC-1 to support more than 7 channels through repurposing ports or functions is ... optimistic. But, we already know that some people won't be satisfied with the functionality of the soon to be released HDMI 2.x board, though it's there for those who need it now; if one later provides greater switching capabilities, some might not like the price. If an Atmos/DTS upgrade can only provide 5.1.2, then while it will appeal to some, will enough people buy it to justify the engineering and production costs? |
|
|
|
Post by albertiwell on Feb 22, 2016 5:46:24 GMT -5
+1 Happy man in case of 5.2.2.
|
|
tknice
Sensei
Movies!
Posts: 358
|
Post by tknice on Feb 23, 2016 6:31:21 GMT -5
+1 Happy man in case of 5.1.2. me too! in my case it woukd be 7.2.2 |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Mar 1, 2016 13:37:31 GMT -5
About Atmos and DTS-X and the XMC-1.
The XMC-1 chassis physically supports up to 7.2 channels; and we have so far considered adding any sort of expansion chassis to extend this to be too major a change to be justified.
Because of this, and because we had considered 7.2.2 or 7.2.4 to be the minimum "useful" Atmos implementation, we were considering Atmos to be "off the table" for the XMC-1.
(It seemed to make sense instead to only offer it on a processor with more channels.)
HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, some other companies are in fact offering "5.1.2 Atmos systems" (which suggests that at least some people do consider that configuration to be worthwhile).
Therefore, we are in fact CONSIDERING that option for the XMC-1 (WE ARE NOT PLANNING THIS AT THE PRESENT; it is simply back on the table as a possibility).
But, considering that DTS-X isn't any more difficult to do than Atmos, I guess this would also make DTS-X 5.1.2 POSSIBLE for the XMC-1 as well.
As you may have surmised, even though Atmos 5.1.2 is POSSIBLE, there is some question about how worthwhile it is.
And, of course, the same would hold true for DTS-X (although, in fact, DTS is promoting the idea that DTS-X provides significant benefits with even the normal number of channels).
Therefore, I doubt this will happen, or even become a definite plan, for at least some time yet. (I just wouldn't rule it out entirely.)
However, note that this wouldn't be a trivial upgrade, and, since the licensing isn't free either, it might NOT be a free upgrade either.
Keith, I don't believe you ever answered me on this one. I posted this question on page #1 but I'll post it again for your reference. Keith, since you are here (following me again as usual   ), perhaps you could try to answer one technical question I have about the XMC-1 and a potential upgrade? Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible? What all would it require to even try and make happen? Firmware, wiring, new boards etc? I'm sure it wouldn't be a free upgrade to existing units (or maybe not even possible), but perhaps it could be a minimal up-charge to future models, like an XMC-2? I'm only asking this because I've always considered Zone outputs as more novelty than necessity. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. I'd much rather use them for the 7.2.4 addition in my main room than to send signals for other rooms. For now I'm just asking if it's been considered or even feasible. I honestly truly believe you would greatly increase the sales longevity of the XMC-1 by doing this. I feel it's currently the one big drawback to not buying an XMC-1. Just trying to help. Thanks ---- Bonzo |
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,276
|
Post by KeithL on Mar 1, 2016 15:48:58 GMT -5
The short answer is that, according to our XMC-1 engineer, it hasn't been considered (and probably won't be). The internal design of the XMC-1 isn't that generalized. (The output of the XMC-1 is not a simple channel matrix, where we can assign any channel to any connector.) Therefore, in order to do Atmos, the processor board would need to be replaced, and, in order to re-route those two channels, the audio output board on which they reside would also have to be replaced. (So what it would amount to would be repurposing the holes in the back panel metalwork by replacing most of the boards inside.... which just wouldn't pay.) Sorry Keith, I don't believe you ever answered me on this one. I posted this question on page #1 but I'll post it again for your reference. Keith, since you are here (following me again as usual ), perhaps you could try to answer one technical question I have about the XMC-1 and a potential upgrade? Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible? What all would it require to even try and make happen? Firmware, wiring, new boards etc? I'm sure it wouldn't be a free upgrade to existing units (or maybe not even possible), but perhaps it could be a minimal up-charge to future models, like an XMC-2? I'm only asking this because I've always considered Zone outputs as more novelty than necessity. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. I'd much rather use them for the 7.2.4 addition in my main room than to send signals for other rooms. For now I'm just asking if it's been considered or even feasible. I honestly truly believe you would greatly increase the sales longevity of the XMC-1 by doing this. I feel it's currently the one big drawback to not buying an XMC-1. Just trying to help. Thanks ---- Bonzo |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Mar 1, 2016 16:16:17 GMT -5
The short answer is that, according to our XMC-1 engineer, it hasn't been considered (and probably won't be). The internal design of the XMC-1 isn't that generalized. (The output of the XMC-1 is not a simple channel matrix, where we can assign any channel to any connector.) Therefore, in order to do Atmos, the processor board would need to be replaced, and, in order to re-route those two channels, the audio output board on which they reside would also have to be replaced. (So what it would amount to would be repurposing the holes in the back panel metalwork by replacing most of the boards inside.... which just wouldn't pay.) Sorry Keith, I don't believe you ever answered me on this one. I posted this question on page #1 but I'll post it again for your reference. Keith, since you are here (following me again as usual ), perhaps you could try to answer one technical question I have about the XMC-1 and a potential upgrade? Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible? What all would it require to even try and make happen? Firmware, wiring, new boards etc? I'm sure it wouldn't be a free upgrade to existing units (or maybe not even possible), but perhaps it could be a minimal up-charge to future models, like an XMC-2? I'm only asking this because I've always considered Zone outputs as more novelty than necessity. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. I'd much rather use them for the 7.2.4 addition in my main room than to send signals for other rooms. For now I'm just asking if it's been considered or even feasible. I honestly truly believe you would greatly increase the sales longevity of the XMC-1 by doing this. I feel it's currently the one big drawback to not buying an XMC-1. Just trying to help. Thanks ---- Bonzo Got it. Thanks for looking into it though, I appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Post by autocrat on Mar 1, 2016 16:33:56 GMT -5
So what do we call this, unplanned obsolescence?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Mar 1, 2016 17:33:25 GMT -5
So what do we call this, unplanned obsolescence? I think it certainly deserves a question mark. Straight from their website.Ready for Ultra High Definition Audio—and Video
3600 MIPS of processing power and audiophile-grade DACs mean the XMC-1 is ready to decode every high-res surround sound format with full resolution and quality. With eight 3GHz HDMI inputs and dual HDMI outputs, the XMC-1 supports video modes up to 4k/60, so it’s ready for Ultra HD 4K video resolution and 3-D sources.Well it's not ready to decode Atmos, DTS:X or Auro, and nor are they currently planning to upgrade it to do so (even though it has been discussed and agreed to here that even with only 7.1 they could potentially sound different than Dolby True or DTS Master depending on how they are mixed). It does do everything before these things so I think that's what they are referring to. Hmmmmm. They are upgrading ONE HDMI input for the 4K stuff (for $300), with a supposed more across the board more HDMI inputs to follow (has how many it will be been told yet, or what about the cost?). I know people were pissed when they found out this initial ONE plug upgrade was announced, because Emotiva certainly hinted at (or people rightfully assumed) it would be for all 8 inputs. I think they had every right to feel slighted. For a comparison, Marantz made the upgrade for free, and now ships with the upgrade. The only thing I don't know is for how many HDMI inputs did Marantz make the upgrade? If it's all 7 or 8 or however many it has, then Emotiva is certainly behind, as is mostly normal for mom & pop electronics shops. Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience
Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come.I have to say, I think a lot of other companies have tried this through out the years, and none have truly succeeded in the realm of processors. I think Emotiva is fooling themselves here, and in doing so are unintentionally misleading customers. I'm not saying they didn't have every intention or do the very best job possible to try and accomplish this, but as all the other companies attempt's have shown, it's a tough road to climb. The XMC-1 has proven capable of some upgrades with a few added features and the upcoming HDMI stuff. But sorry folks, I do not consider most of the firmware updates as upgrades, they were product fixes. And so far with the new codecs, it's been a fail. So I really think their tag line of "Ultimate Flexibility and Convenience" and the words that follow it are basically over exaggerated hype, not much more. Made in the USA
The XMC-1 is the first product made in our all-new Nashville, Tennessee Production Center, which allows us exceptional control over every facet of the design and production process for ultimate quality.As I've said before, the word "MADE" is a misnomer, plain and simple. Maybe not a big deal, but it is a misnomer. Even Dan said "ASSEMBLED" during his video at the show. They should change a simple word to represent 100% accuracy, so why don't they? It would barely cost them a thing. Yet they have a brand new add that just started this month in magazines, and they didn't change it yet again. It would have cost them nothing. They love to add the word "DESIGNED" in the U.S.A. so single simple words are important to their advertising to them. So to say I'm putting more importance on it while they obviously do think single distinguishing words are very important is hypocritical. Speaking about the add, I found it seriously amusing. The entire top half is nothing more than a hot chick sitting on a couch or a bed or something. The bottom is the usual "schpiel" with very little change if any, and now a very small picture of the XMC-1, which if you look closely, does show the color differences. What does a big hot chick have to do with a hifi processor? From the complete lack of females on this forum, I'd say "nothing." And then when they finally show the XMC-1 truer colors, they make it smaller (aka harder)to see. It's their money to spend, but I think the add sucks. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,867
|
Post by LCSeminole on Mar 1, 2016 19:00:05 GMT -5
So bonzo, I don't think I've read one way or the other, but are you planning on installing ceiling speakers to go with a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X setup? If so, what processor/receiver will you be entertaining?
|
|
|
|
Post by annjones13 on Mar 1, 2016 19:45:10 GMT -5
Bonzo,
You are not quite correct in saying there are no females on this forum. Last time I checked, I was still a girl.
I may not have a high post count, but I follow the threads every day. I consider my XMC-1 to be a super value..
Ann
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Mar 1, 2016 20:04:56 GMT -5
Bonzo, You are not quite correct in saying there are no females on this forum. Last time I checked, I was still a girl. I may not have a high post count, but I follow the threads every day. I consider my XMC-1 to be a super value.. Ann You tell him Ann!!! |
|
|
|
Post by supermac on Mar 1, 2016 20:39:44 GMT -5
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
|
Post by Lsc on Mar 2, 2016 2:20:15 GMT -5
So what do we call this, unplanned obsolescence? No question it is unplanned. I much prefer the UFL and no promise of pre/pros lasting 10-15 years. It's just one mans pipe dream and neither Theta nor Emotiva or any other company (even Datasat) have been successful at it. Big Dan had it right for a long time before he was most likely convinced to believe otherwise. I also think we beat this dead horse enough...bc the XMC-1 will never be an Atmos processor regardless of how much we talk about it. I do hope Emotiva gets on the ball on getting the XMR-1 or XMC-2 with Atmos to production within the next year or so and not get left behind. Did I mention just how good the XMC-1 sounds? Just reran Dirac last night after about a year bc I moved my sub around and bam! The year of moving stuff around while unnoticeable definitely marred the sound ever so slightly. The super crystal clarity is back and the bass is smoother than ever. Yes sir...btw a rock and a hard place. My hope is that Marantz can get the 770# series' sound quality to match the XMC-1 so I can finally get Atmos without sacrificing sound quality bc I ain't going backwards in this dept. Who knows what the future will hold... |
|
|
|
Post by ÈlTwo on Mar 2, 2016 8:43:26 GMT -5
Remember, it says in determining what constitutes "virtually all of the content" it is not the percentage of the parts, but the percentage of the cost of total manufacture. As an example let's say your product has 500 parts, of which 450 are from foreign sources, and 50 are 100% U.S. content, and the product is fully assembled in the U.S.A. Now let's say the cost of the foreign parts is 2% of the total manufacturing cost, with 70% the cost of labor and software, and the remaining 28% the cost of other U.S.A. parts, it easily qualifies as Made in the U.S.A. Even if the other 28% of the manufactured in U.S.A. parts contained some foreign content (as may happen with a processor designed and fabricated in the U.S.A.) the percentage of foreign content of that part will only have a negligible effect on the overall foreign percentage of that part. That is because the cost of that part to the subsequent user is used to calculate foreign content (i.e. the cost of foreign parts divided by the entire cost of the part to the end manufacturer (including the suppliers' profit). An interesting read, but it doesn't belong in this thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Mar 2, 2016 9:28:30 GMT -5
Bonzo, You are not quite correct in saying there are no females on this forum. Last time I checked, I was still a girl. I may not have a high post count, but I follow the threads every day. I consider my XMC-1 to be a super value.. Ann Well wow! There you are! The needle in the haystack I've been looking for. I know there are a few females on this forum, and a few that buy hifi stuff. But I think it's fair to say it is in fact a man's man's man's world for the most part. Dunno why, just is. But I'm glad you are here. Us men need ladies to keep us in line.  |
|
), perhaps you could try to answer one technical question I have about the XMC-1 and a potential upgrade? Has anyone at Emotiva "considered" maybe trying to use the Zone 1 & 2 outputs for the additional 4 channels? Would this even be possible? What all would it require to even try and make happen? Firmware, wiring, new boards etc? I'm sure it wouldn't be a free upgrade to existing units (or maybe not even possible), but perhaps it could be a minimal up-charge to future models, like an XMC-2? I'm only asking this because I've always considered Zone outputs as more novelty than necessity. I'm sure there are others that feel the same. I'd much rather use them for the 7.2.4 addition in my main room than to send signals for other rooms. For now I'm just asking if it's been considered or even feasible. I honestly truly believe you would greatly increase the sales longevity of the XMC-1 by doing this. I feel it's currently the one big drawback to not buying an XMC-1. Just trying to help.
