Dirac - Result Graphs, help tuning and REW

[dkaudio]

Jun 26, 2016 17:42:31 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

For giggles.. do you have an xlr (on both ends) cable to try?

I do not

[Deleted]

Is the amp set to dual mono in the dsp ?

[Deleted]

did the umc have one or two sub outs?

never mind found that it has one..

[dkaudio]

Jun 26, 2016 17:43:59 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

Is the amp set to dual mono in the dsp ?

Hmmm, not sure about this, whatever I had it set to before. I can look at that.

[dkaudio]

The iNuke is set up for dual A/B.

The only difference was that I had a Y RCA cable since the UMC only has one out. Now I am just using a standard RCA stereo cable.

[Deleted]

Jun 26, 2016 21:49:46 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

The iNuke is set up for dual A/B.

The only difference was that I had a Y RCA cable since the UMC only has one out. Now I am just using a standard RCA stereo cable.

So is the sub level acceptable or able to matched at 75db on preset 1?

[dkaudio]

Ok, I got it working. When I was playing test tones before either the software, XMC-1 or something else was not working properly. I shut everything off and then tried it again last night. The subs now play the same tone as the speakers, before it was barely anything audible.
Anyways, ended up having the gains on the iNuke about 3/4 up then all my speakers were in the upper green and the subs were going into the green finally. The subs are two 18” SI-HT if that matters.
I did all 9 measurements and downloaded to the XMC, at that point it was getting late so went to bed.
One thing I did notice was my subs were still at 0db in the XMC menu, doesn't Dirac set the levels too so all speakers are relatively the same volume or is that done manually?

[fbczar]

Jun 28, 2016 12:27:11 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

Ok, I got it working. When I was playing test tones before either the software, XMC-1 or something else was not working properly. I shut everything off and then tried it again last night. The subs now play the same tone as the speakers, before it was barely anything audible.
Anyways, ended up having the gains on the iNuke about 3/4 up then all my speakers were in the upper green and the subs were going into the green finally. The subs are two 18” SI-HT if that matters.
I did all 9 measurements and downloaded to the XMC, at that point it was getting late so went to bed.
One thing I did notice was my subs were still at 0db in the XMC menu, doesn't Dirac set the levels too so all speakers are relatively the same volume or is that done manually?

I think all the speakers will be set at 0db in the Dirac menu after you complete the measurements. Dirac applies a standard room curve unless you build one yourself. The standard curve boosts bass about 2db and rolls off the high around 2db. For me, the standard curve was ok, but I had to boost bass manually. I finally created a custom curve in Dirac Full and the difference is amazing. Creating custom curves is another discussion, but it is worth the effort in time and research.

[dkaudio]

I just downloaded the settings to the UMC. I did review the before and after calibration frequency graphs, it was pretty interesting to see. Anyways, does that mean it automatically loaded a standard curve?

I do not have Dirac Full and probably won't get it for a while, paying off the unit right now

I did not chose double bass in the menu, I set my FL and FR to large (Onix Rocket 760's). I didn't want the LFE channel routed to my speakers, that’s what I understand selecting double bass did.

Hopefully I will have some time this week to listen to it, I'm thinking I will definitely need to up the DB on the sub outputs though.

Isn't it a procedure to first play your mains to 75db then each successive channel adjusting the output level until 75db is achieved across the board? I'm surprised this isn't done automatically in Dirac.

[fbczar]

Jun 28, 2016 14:14:16 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

I just downloaded the settings to the UMC. I did review the before and after calibration frequency graphs, it was pretty interesting to see. Anyways, does that mean it automatically loaded a standard curve?

I do not have Dirac Full and probably won't get it for a while, paying off the unit right now

I did not chose double bass in the menu, I set my FL and FR to large (Onyx Rocket 760's). I didn't want the LFE channel routed to my speakers, that’s what I understand selecting double bass did.

Hopefully I will have some time this week to listen to it, I'm thinking I will definitely need to up the DB on the sub outputs though.

Isn't it a procedure to first play your mains to 75db then each successive channel adjusting the output level until 75db is achieved across the board? I'm surprised this isn't done automatically in Dirac.

Your version of Dirac will load a standard curve that boosts the bass frequencies about 2db and roll of the higher frequencies about 2 db. I am concerned about the speaker setup based on your comment about the LFE channel. How many subs do you have? How are they placed? If you are going to use the subs all the other speakers need to be set to small and you need to choose a crossover point for each speaker relative to your subwoofers. You should download the PDF for the XMC-1 and Dirac and read them carefully. I know it is a pain, but if you don't you will be sorry. Let me know how your speakers and subs are placed and we can go from there.

[dkaudio]

I read both manuals cover to cover and the Dirac FAQ in its entirety.

Why can't my mains be large? They have awesome punchy bass that goes away when set to small. I always listened to music on my UMC-1 in direct because the punchy bass sounded better with full freq on my mains than crossed and using my subs.

I have two 18" SI-HT subs, I made the enclosures, ported tuned to 17hz or so, 1" MDF, double baffle, etc.

I have one sub in a corner of my room next to my front right speakers. The other one is on the opposite side of my room behind my surround left. The enclosures are pushing 10ft^3 so I don't have a lot of placement option on them. When setting up I played each independently and moved around the room.

[Deleted]

Double bass will redirect the left and rights bass to the subs..
You'd be better to set them to small and lower the crossover on them.
Dirac sets each speaker to play 75db test tones... Or so it's supposed to.. I found it usually set them pretty close to the same but never at 75db. All the 75db means is it plays "reference level" at zero on the mv dial.. Not necessary unless your ocd.. 3/4 gain on the nuke is acceptable. I found i had to run my amps at 32db gain when using my xmc. (38db when using my pt7030 and 23db using my current Marantz)

Have you measured with rew to see what dirac did with your subs? I found it gave me a HUGE null throughout most of the lfw passband. I had to delay them manually in the dsp of my amps then allow dirac to eq them as a single unit.

Glad you're up and running.

[dkaudio]

I tried messing with REW a while ago but only have an imm-6 microphone.

So I should re-run Dirac with the mains to small with a lower crossover (or will Dirac set the crossover for me?)

[Deleted]

You set your crossover yourself. In the menu you select small then move to the right and it allows you to set your crossover.
The imm6.. Isn't that the mic that plugs into your 1/8 headphone jack on your phone?
Use the included emm mic from Emotiva. It has compatibility with the new rew .

[dkaudio]

Jun 28, 2016 17:18:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

You set your crossover yourself. In the menu you select small then move to the right and it allows you to set your crossover.
The imm6.. Isn't that the mic that plugs into your 1/8 headphone jack on your phone?
Use the included emm mic from Emotiva. It has compatibility with the new rew .

Oh, cool, I think I remember reading that now. I'll have to read some tutorials on REW now. Other issue is I don't have a laptop so I'm moving my office PC out every time, haha.

Ok, I'll set the fronts to small and a lower crossover in the Dirac settings, then I'll re-run Dirac.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2016 19:31:35 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

Jun 28, 2016 17:18:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

You set your crossover yourself. In the menu you select small then move to the right and it allows you to set your crossover.
The imm6.. Isn't that the mic that plugs into your 1/8 headphone jack on your phone?
Use the included emm mic from Emotiva. It has compatibility with the new rew .

Oh, cool, I think I remember reading that now. I'll have to read some tutorials on REW now. Other issue is I don't have a laptop so I'm moving my office PC out every time, haha.

Ok, I'll set the fronts to small and a lower crossover in the Dirac settings, then I'll re-run Dirac.

Don't bother rerunning dirac.. You have your measurements now... As long as you saved the project you can just reload it. But if all you're doing is changing from large to small. The measurements won't change. The way the bass is directed (digitally) will change.
Once you have rew up and running you can then begin to tweak the delays on the subs in the nuke dsp.

Feel free to pm me or shoot me over an email... Much faster to get a response that way.. I'll help ya out and walk ya through some basic rew.. It's very simple once you get the gist of it..

[fbczar]

Jun 28, 2016 14:51:04 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

I read both manuals cover to cover and the Dirac FAQ in its entirety.

Why can't my mains be large? They have awesome punchy bass that goes away when set to small. I always listened to music on my UMC-1 in direct because the punchy bass sounded better with full freq on my mains than crossed and using my subs.

I have two 18" SI-HT subs, I made the enclosures, ported tuned to 17hz or so, 1" MDF, double baffle, etc.

I have one sub in a corner of my room next to my front right speakers. The other one is on the opposite side of my room behind my surround left. The enclosures are pushing 10ft^3 so I don't have a lot of placement option on them. When setting up I played each independently and moved around the room.

What you ultimately decide to do depends on how you use your system and how good your subwoofers are. Is music really important to you? If your subs are great, fast and work well with music you need to set all your speakers to small and cross them over at 80Hz or wherever it sounds best to you. You might choose a lower crossover with your main L&R speakers than the center and surrounds. After measuring with Dirac you can adust the level of your subwoofers level control if it does not provide the output you like. It is not unusual for folks to boost their sub by 6db over the level Dirac Live sets. In the circumstance described, when subs are great with music, you should be in great shape. Just set the processor to stereo and enjoy the music. Movies will be great with all speakers set to small and crossed over as sounds best to you.

On the other hand, if your subs are not good with music listening in Reference mode without Dirac may make the most sense, especially since you L&R speakers play bass so well. You can still set Dirac as described above for use with movies. When you can upgrade to Dirac Full you will appreciate the flexibility a custom room curve provides.

[dkaudio]

Thanks for all the help. I thought I read that anytime you change a setting you should re-run Dirac, great if I don't have to!

I changed my fronts to small with a 40 hz cross to start with.

My subs are very capable, 18" Stereo Integrity HT's in a ported enclosure with low tuning, weighs around 260lbs each.

Fatty, I would love help with Rew, hopefully I'll have time This week!

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2016 21:01:06 GMT -5 dkaudio said:

Thanks for all the help. I thought I read that anytime you change a setting you should re-run Dirac, great if I don't have to!

I will changed my fronts to small with a 40 hz cross to start with.

My subs are very capable, 18" Stereo Integrity HT's in a ported enclosure with low tuning, weighs around 260lbs each.

Fatty, I would love help with Rew, hopefully I'll have time This week!

I actually mentioned that when changing your crossovers and stuff it "could" change your delays and phase ( totally inaudible most of the time but you never know)... but that's something that needs to be measured.. I'm not a golden ear like the general population of audio forums, I trust my microphone and measuring software. 

[dkaudio]

I just reran Dirac using fronts as small. I mostly reran because Windows had my AGC checked and level at 0. I don't remember reading about those things in the manual, just saw threads mentioning it. I unchecked AGC and brought the level to 100 then reran. Weird part was with the input gain all the way up my level was WAY below 24db. Before I had to bring the input gain down.

Here are the Dirac results...looks like I have a pretty big dip around 7k in all my speakers, why?

Fronts


Center


Surrounds


Sub 1


Sub 2



I also measured my subs individually and together following this thread...
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/40600/multi-sub-dirac-minidsp-beginners

This does not take Dirac into account, it is Preset 2 as Tony describes. This is my result though...