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Post by adaboy on Aug 20, 2016 1:50:46 GMT -5
I must add here that I have own the original Emotiva ERM-1 Reference speaker, which is identical to their top of the line ERT-8.3 tower from the woofers up, (the same exact 1" soft dome tweeter and 5.25" mid) I A/B'd this extensively with the Emo ERM-6.3 center speaker. I found the tweeters to be identical and sound identical. I also own a small M2 Axiom bookshelf speaker which had the same exact tweeter as in the M80, at that time the top of the line tower. The M80 had two of these tweeters because the single tweeter was not high enough in power handling. I believe the current Axiom tweeter has perhaps been upgraded. I did many hours of A/B comparison between the Axiom and Emo Reference ERM-1. It took about 30 seconds to see that the enclosure build and driver quality of the Emo were obviously superior. The tweeter in the ERM-1 has exceptional 4 ohm power handling driven by my Emo XPA-5 with 300+ watts into 4 ohms. Don't get me wrong the Axiom is a very nice speaker and sounds generally very good to excellent! However, the ERM-1 bested it in 17 out of 18 blind listening comparisons with one tie (I had a helper) and I had all settings at identical loudness and reversed side by side positions/wiring during the comparison. My purpose here is to talk about the sound of the Emo tweeters. For my ears and anything within 3-4 times the cost, this soft dome tweeter is superb! It was not peaked above 10kHz-15kHz like so many tweeters are that sound so apparently clean at first listening but then become edgy and fatiguing after some time. The sound was ultra clean, smooth and completely non-fatiguing. There was a slow roll off starting at about 14kHz with no peak before that range. I have compared this tweeter again with many hours of side by side A/B comparisons with the folded ribbon tweeter in my Emo Airmotiv 4's. By the way, I have the 4's at my computer system with an 8" Mirage Omni 8 sub. Wow! At about 10-12 feet it puts out a very clean and flat sound down to about 30Hz with 90+ decibels. Not super loud but very nice for a den or family room as well as my near field computer system. My conclusion on the folded ribbon tweeter (1.25" --- 26 by 32mm versus the soft dome on the ERM-1. I ever so slighty preferred the soft dome in the ERM-1. The ribbon tweeter went very slightly less high than the soft dome, maybe 500Hz less when it started a slow roll off. I know many will be surprised but I used frequency response tests to compare them. They sounded almost identical to my ears in the high end range. They both were very smooth and natural, no fatigue. I gave an ever so small edge in overall sound to the soft dome, but both IMO were superb! The off axis on the soft dome is excellent but the folded ribbon is even better, sounding so good way off axis in the adjoining room. The ERM-1 tweeter driven by the XPA-5 obviously had higher power handling/volume output. The folded ribbon tweeters in the new speakers should play plenty loud driven by a strong amp. Nice I like how you went about your experience! Btw I have two of those subs in my office! Great subs |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 2:27:11 GMT -5
Nice I like how you went about your experience! Btw I have two of those subs in my office! Great subs Thanks Adaboy! I really lucked out and found the Mirage Omni 8's for $140 on closeout! They make a great match for the Airmotiv4's and it sounds like a full range speaker, even though the 4's are already flat in my own FR tests down to 50Hz at my computer, (actually below Emo's specs, quite rare). The model 4/sub combo is limited to about 90dB's due to the small model 4. Adding a smaller sub to the 4, 5 and 6 Airmotiv's makes for a great smaller room or computer system even though many are fine with the bass response of the Airmotiv's alone. I like extra low but clean bass. |
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Post by adaboy on Aug 20, 2016 2:39:43 GMT -5
Nice I like how you went about your experience! Btw I have two of those subs in my office! Great subs Thanks Adaboy! I really lucked out and found the Mirage Omni 8's for $140 on closeout! They make a great match for the Airmotiv4's and it sounds like a full range speaker, even though the 4's are already flat in my own FR tests down to 50Hz at my computer, (actually below Emo's specs, quite rare). The model 4/sub combo is limited to about 90dB's due to the small model 4. Adding a smaller sub to the 4, 5 and 6 Airmotiv's makes for a great smaller room or computer system even though many are fine with the bass response of the Airmotiv's alone. I like extra low but clean bass. Dude you stole that sub for that cheap 👍 I match mine with my a pair of Maggie MMG's. They are very musical subs, fast. I heard the Airmotivs at a buddies house but it wasn't a thorough listen. Sounded good tho. |
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Post by Axis on Aug 20, 2016 2:41:51 GMT -5
The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had !
Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed !
You will hear more about this as time goes on !
There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 3:06:43 GMT -5
The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had ! Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed ! You will hear more about this as time goes on ! There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period ! I presume you have not heard the Emotiva Reference silk dome tweeter (that is silk from the planet Jupiter). Trust me, I can drive it very loud with the XPA-5 with very low audible distortion, these are not cheapo paper tweeters. They don't get edgy like many metal tweeters. Audioholics 5 Star Review of the ERM-1 bookshelf speaker for LCR and ERD-1 surround speaker, both with 1" silk dome tweeter. .......... the Ferro-fluid cooled 25mm tweeter has its own heat sink mounted on the neodymium magnet which is essential for such small motor structures for realizing uncompromised performance at high power levels .......... This is one of the most well executed loudspeaker system designs of come across in years regardless of their asking price. It is an obvious asset that Emotiva has chosen to employ one of the great loudspeaker engineers in the industry (Vance Dickason) to engineer this system........... The off-axis response of these speakers seemed remarkable/The on/off axis response of the ERM-1 proved to be very linear and smooth. These are definitely not ear bleeders are obviously voiced to sound very natural and non-fatiguing. ........... the speakers were so clean and responsive that I could play them louder without them sounding pushed.......... crisp, articulate.......... I was surprised to find that the ERD-1s bested the Axioms on almost every metric I could come up with........... Don’t be afraid to feed these babies a lot of power as they won’t bottom out and thanks to the excellent driver’s utilized and 4th order Linkwitz Riley crossover implementation they won’t scoff at the juice........... If performance is what you are after, the Emotiva's have it in spades. I for one never would have expected an amp and processor company to come out with such a great performing speaker. Treble Extension --- 5 stars Treble Smoothness --- 5 stars Dynamic Range --- 5 stars Overall Performance Rating --- 5 Stars |
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Post by Axis on Aug 20, 2016 3:14:21 GMT -5
The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had ! Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed ! You will hear more about this as time goes on ! There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period ! I presume you have not heard the Emotiva Reference tweeter. Trust me, I can drive it very loud with the XPA-5 with very low audible distortion, these are not cheapo paper tweeters. They don't get edgy like many metal tweeters. They do not make them anymore Chuckienut ! I have Sony's best cobalt tweeters that extend to 70,000 hertz and they shine but do not match the AMT tweeters on my Airmotiv monitors. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 4:02:43 GMT -5
I presume you have not heard the Emotiva Reference tweeter. Trust me, I can drive it very loud with the XPA-5 with very low audible distortion, these are not cheapo paper tweeters. They don't get edgy like many metal tweeters.
I have Sony's best cobalt tweeters that extend to 70,000 hertz and they shine but do not match the AMT tweeters on my Airmotiv monitors. I know they don't make them any more but that doesn't mean your statements are true: .......... The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had ! You obviously have not had very good dome tweeters. ......... Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed ! You were referring to the tweeters I had mentioned just above (you guys are speaking of). The Emo silk dome I wouldn't call simply a common tweeter but very high quality and it plays very loud with very low distortion when pushed. .......... There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period ! Nonsense! Axis, these ribbon tweeters have been around for many years. They are now improved and very good indeed. .......... Sony's best cobalt tweeters that extend to 70,000 hertz What is the purpose and conclusion for a tweeter that extends up to 70kHz??? Is that for you dog? I want a tweeter that is clean, low distortion, high power handling and can be flat up to about 15kHz, whihc is the tweeter you are attacking. BTW, do you still have the Sony's? .......... I mentioned that my Emo silk domes to my ears are about equal to the Airmotiv folded ribbon, that was during an A/B comparison with FR tests. I must have been hallucinating.  |
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Post by Axis on Aug 20, 2016 4:12:16 GMT -5
They do not make them anymore Chuckienut !
I have Sony's best cobalt tweeters that extend to 70,000 hertz and they shine but do not match the AMT tweeters on my Airmotiv monitors. I know they don't make them any more but that doesn't mean your statements are true: .......... The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had ! You obviously have not had very good dome tweeters. ......... Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed ! You were referring to the tweeters I had mentioned just above. The Emo silk dome is not very common but plays very loud with very low distortion when pushed. .......... There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period ! Nonsense! Axis, these ribbon tweeters have been around for many years. They are now improved and very good indeed. .......... Sony's best cobalt tweeters that extend to 70,000 hertz What is the purpose and conclusion for a tweeter that extends up to 70kHz??? Is that for you dog? I want a tweeter that is clean, low distortion, high power handling and can be flat up to about 15kHz, whihc is the tweeter you are attacking. BTW, do you still have the Sony's? .......... I mentioned that my Emo silk domes to my ears are about equal to the Airmotiv folded ribbon, that was during an A/B comparison with FR tests. I must have been hallucinating. No it does not make it true.  The AMT tweeters that Emotiva are using sound great. Over and over again there has been praise for the Stealth and Airmotiv monitors sound quality. They have won over the reviews of many outlets that review them. Hard to find a review out there that say they suck. They sound very good is what I read over and over. I have them and they sound good to me. I bet there are many here that have them that will say they sound good. I have never heard a tweeter that sounds as good as the Emotiva AMT's. I love them ! I Looooooove them !  |
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Post by yves on Aug 20, 2016 5:06:08 GMT -5
The Air Motion tweeter that I have in my Airmotiv speakers out performs any Dome tweeter I have ever had ! Common Dome tweeters distort when pushed ! You will hear more about this as time goes on ! There are exotic tweeters like beryllium tweeters that cost more than gold but the normal fabric or metal dome tweeters that you guys are speaking of distort. Period ! The ceramic dome tweeters in my Cantons don't distort. While they aren't cheap, they also don't cost more than gold. |
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Post by wreckingball on Aug 20, 2016 20:40:50 GMT -5
Nice reviews gentlemen! Bravo!
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Post by wreckingball on Aug 24, 2016 21:30:26 GMT -5
These things are toys...sorry..
Can't post anymore info tonight.. done./.. uggggh
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Post by teaman on Aug 24, 2016 22:29:23 GMT -5
I am still interested in seeing what the upper line offers. When the T 10 is released it might be interesting. Twin 10 inch woofers plus the folded ribbon and mid....possibly a combination worth waiting for. Not like they are going to replace my KLF-30's or something....
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 25, 2016 7:31:57 GMT -5
I am sure everyone has heard this adage "you get what you pay for". That statement can be put on just anything you buy today including electronics.
I started small with my HT. Money was short. I purchased what I could afford and at the time my speakers of long ago sounded GREAT!
The best speakers ever.
As I became stronger financially I was able to acquire better equipment.
I by no means would classified myself as wealthy (when it comes to money) I am that "working class hero" and nowadays outdated and almost non-existent like the dinosaur.
Overtime was plentiful and I started an account adding each week to my saving account for my addiction.
I digress.
The wallet has some play on what our ears hear. The fact is if you have limited funds $3-$400 it doesn't matter what that $1000-$10,000 speaker sounds like or that it sounds better than what you can afford...what YOU can afford is the best at that time.
Personally I was never a fan of speakers under $1000.00. Having friends that were I found the sound to grow ever so tiring to listen in a short time. My first big speaker upgrade for 2channel stereo were the AVANCE speakers from Denmark that are no longer being sold At local audio stores and perhaps in the US. $1000.00 bought me a ot of quality so much so I wish I stil had them. Alas I donated them to my then unemployed brother in law who still has them today.
Obviously you can only buy what you could afford but aligning them with "the best" you ever heard is a big stretch in today's speaker market.
There are options when buying speakers, pre-amps, TT, and amplifiers to name a few and the most important IMO is to SAVE...don't buy something CHEAP b/c as good as it sounds today tomorrow you may have regrets.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 25, 2016 8:06:23 GMT -5
These things are toys...sorry.. Can't post anymore info tonight.. done./.. uggggh What happened? Please tell us your setup as well if you get a chance! Maybe we can help? |
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Post by adaboy on Aug 25, 2016 8:23:25 GMT -5
These things are toys...sorry.. Can't post anymore info tonight.. done./.. uggggh What happened? Please tell us your setup as well if you get a chance! Maybe we can help? I thought that was a bit odd myself and I don't even subscribe to them. |
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Post by wreckingball on Aug 25, 2016 21:46:25 GMT -5
What happened? Please tell us your setup as well if you get a chance! Maybe we can help? I thought that was a bit odd myself and I don't even subscribe to them. OK... My opinion has moderated a bit since last evening, as I spent some time today playing the T1's LOUD to 'break them in'. That being said, I still think they could have done better, even at this price point. To answer questions about my setup: I was playing CDs through a Panny DMPBDT500, a Sony 5 disc changer, and my HTPC with VLC. (the differences in SQ were negligible between these 3) Those were run into an Emotiva UMC-1, into a UPA-500, and finally out into the T1's. Bass content was anemic last night (putting it mildly) ...that has since been improved... thank god.. The mids and highs are loud by way of comparison, and the mid is too loud vs the high...my opinion.. Mostly, and overall, this speaker could have been a 'star' with just a few more design changes. Maybe the T10s are going to be that star, but how much will they cost? (UMC vs XMC come to mind) *rolls eyes* As for the frequency response chart, If it is accurate, it's not using the measurement method I am used to ...at least to my way of understanding. That chart is what made me pull the trigger on these. I mean, looking at that chart, you'd think the T1's kill it.. not so.. Where does all this come from? Well, this is the first pair of manufactured speakers (outside of car-audio), that I have ever purchased. Up until now, I've been a DIY guy and built my own. What am I comparing the T1s to? ...a set of speakers I built based on the ProAc 2.5... My observations are that the midrange clouds out the ribbon a bit, and that the woofers are quiet compared to M/H. My set of DIY speakers using the Scan-Speak 8545, and the 9500 tweeter are much more balanced, less distorted, and do not 'cloud' in the upper mids and low highs the way the T1 does. Anyway...FWIW and YMMV.  Lastly, I agree with the "you get what you pay for" adage. BUT IMO, I think Emotiva used to be the exception to this rule at one time, maybe not so much anymore.. Cheers |
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Post by rbk123 on Aug 25, 2016 22:04:05 GMT -5
Oh boy, you're going to send Axis into apoplexy.
I have the XRT 5.2's, and their bass "punch" is sad, but the mid-bass accuracy is good. They clearly needed a sub and have worked much better once integrated. The T1's may be similar in your situation.
Oh and thanks for sharing your thoughts. You may think differently over time and fine-tuning, but maybe not.
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 25, 2016 22:09:38 GMT -5
It will be interesting doing a comparison to the Elac towers at the same price point. Maybe somebody will chime in
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Post by garbulky on Aug 25, 2016 23:04:54 GMT -5
Sorry they didn't work out! What kind of setup do you have? (Amps, dacs, preamps?)
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Post by wreckingball on Aug 25, 2016 23:11:13 GMT -5
I have the XRT 5.2's, and their base "punch" is sad, but the mid-bass accuracy is good. They clearly needed a sub and have worked much better once integrated. The T1's may be similar in your situation. Thanks for this... just solidifies my opinion.. And this goes back to my position on the T1s.. why should one need a sub to augment a FULL TOWER? Doesn't make sense to me.. Huh? ..lolz... Like you say though... my opinion might change ..I doubt it though...hahahahh Night folks..  |
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