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Post by dwaleke on Jan 29, 2017 13:14:09 GMT -5
1) What is the need for and/or result of using 192/24 vs 96/24 in Dirac in RMC-1 vs XMC-2? Does any other manufacturer use 192/24 in HT analysis in any brand of analyzer? Currently any audio with a higher bitrate than 48khz is resampled to 48khz so Dirac can process it. Audyssey room eq does the same thing. I believe all the other common solutions (YPAO, MCACC, AccuEQ, ARC, etc) either process at 96khz or 192khz (ie no resampling). |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 29, 2017 13:19:57 GMT -5
Ah, the RMC-1 "power" that I was alluding to was 16 channels, all fully differential, all with fairly fancy AK Stereo DACs operating in "Dual Monaurial Mode" versus the XMC-2's only having something like that on the Left/Center/Right channels. If you're like me, my Left/Center/Right channels are Very Good speakers and my surrounds are merely Nice. So for me, the XMC-2 would probably be the more sensible option. But I've never been accused of having the brains God gave a turnip, so we'll see ... :-) My current plan is to wait till the RMC-1 comes out and perhaps till the XMC-2 comes out and then pull the trigger. I'll probably get the RMC-1 because overkill is never a bad thing, right?
Casey
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Post by cwt on Jan 30, 2017 1:01:33 GMT -5
1) What is the need for and/or result of using 192/24 vs 96/24 in Dirac in RMC-1 vs XMC-2? Does any other manufacturer use 192/24 in HT analysis in any brand of analyzer? Just thinking out loud onetallguy but any 24/192 music downloads you've paid extra for wouldn't get processed/downsampled . Not that I have tried it  The RMC1 btw processes at a higher rate than a $$ datasat rs201 ; it does the same rate for room eq that a trinnov altitude at a fraction of the price  |
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 30, 2017 12:31:55 GMT -5
No, Dirac running at 24/192 has little to do with decoding 24/192 files. There have been limits with some devices which could not handle for example 24/192 Apple Lossless files even if they were able to decode 24/192 AIFF files. But that's another matter. BTW, not everybody pays extra for 24/192  |
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Post by fbczar on Jan 30, 2017 15:14:05 GMT -5
1) What is the need for and/or result of using 192/24 vs 96/24 in Dirac in RMC-1 vs XMC-2? Does any other manufacturer use 192/24 in HT analysis in any brand of analyzer? Currently any audio with a higher bitrate than 48khz is resampled to 48khz so Dirac can process it. Audyssey room eq does the same thing. I believe all the other common solutions (YPAO, MCACC, AccuEQ, ARC, etc) either process at 96khz or 192khz (ie no resampling). The RMC-1's version of Dirac will not downsample if the file is 192/24 or lower. The XMC-2 would not downsample files at or lower than 96/24, but would have to down sample files above that rate. If you have 192/24 files the RMC-1 would seem to be the better choice relative to the version of Dirac it uses. However, both devices, as well as the XMC-1, will play up to 192/24 after whatever sample rate conversions are necessary.. |
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Post by cwt on Jan 31, 2017 5:45:06 GMT -5
No, Dirac running at 24/192 has little to do with decoding 24/192 files. Well your comparing Dirac processing against the DAC decoding at 24/192fs I feel .. Otherwise I agree with millst as was making a distinction between the dacs and processing [ as fbczar has also explained ] ; emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/772152/thread |
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Post by jonas79 on May 4, 2017 5:52:22 GMT -5
Any more info about a release date ??
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on May 4, 2017 6:02:05 GMT -5
No.
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Post by markc on May 27, 2017 7:11:02 GMT -5
It is not just downsampling that affects audio quality. .
Resampling occurs in both direction, up and down.
The current XMC-1 Dirac operates at 48kHz.
The XMC-2 is purported to upgrade this processing power to operate at 96kHz.
However, audio other than this native rate has to be resampled.
A 48kHz source can be very well up-sampled to 96kHz and 192kHz can be fairly well approximated mathematically in a 96kHz down-sample.
(Mathematically) ugly resampling occurs with 44.1kHz to 48kHz up-sampling and to a lesser degree with up-sampling to 96kHz
However even other rates have to be resampled. 88.2kHz and 176kHz (the best PCM approximation of HTPC DSD output as the XMC-1 can't accept DOP over HDMI) will have some fairly ugly (mathematically speaking) resampling to either 48kHz for the XMC-1, 96kHz for the XMC-2 or 192kHz for future processors.
Whether this is a good thing to do depends on your system, your ears, your perception and, most significantly your neuroticism with audiophile "quality" affecting your perception!!!
Does the impact of Dirac Live room correction out-weigh the impact of lossy resampling (necessary for non 48kHz and therefore most music audio sources) to allow Dirac Live room correction to make it sound better to you?
I use Dirac live for movies but not for audio. That is the compromise I make to suit my perception. My sofa position is pretty much in the perfect place for watching movies. With music listening I am often up and about a bit more so the impact of the room is less significant
Quote: The RMC-1's version of Dirac will not downsample if the file is 192/24 or lower. The XMC-2 would not downsample files at or lower than 96/24, but would have to down sample files above that rate. If you have 192/24 files the RMC-1 would seem to be the better choice relative to the version of Dirac it uses. However, both devices, as well as the XMC-1, will play up to 192/24 after whatever sample rate conversions are necessary..[/quote]
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Post by dwaleke on May 27, 2017 8:25:37 GMT -5
I'd be very surprised if Dirac only operated at a single sample rate.
Resampling would only occur if your source is at a higher sample rate than the highest sample rate that Dirac can operate. It should have no problem with 44.1k, 48khz. If the highest is 96khz then your 88.2k and lower stuff wouldn't be resampled.
BTW: many delta sigma dacs are performing upsampling before your audio is converted to analog.
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Post by foggy1956 on May 27, 2017 12:11:15 GMT -5
I'd be very surprised if Dirac only operated at a single sample rate. Resampling would only occur if your source is at a higher sample rate than the highest sample rate that Dirac can operate. It should have no problem with 44.1k, 48khz. If the highest is 96khz then your 88.2k and lower stuff wouldn't be resampled. BTW: many delta sigma dacs are performing upsampling before your audio is converted to analog. I believe 44.1 is converted to 48 on the xmc-1. |
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Post by tripleb570 on Jun 7, 2017 15:52:56 GMT -5
I would like to know what DAC's will be in the XMC-2. Be nice if the same as the RMC-1.
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Post by cwt on Jun 8, 2017 3:00:15 GMT -5
I would like to know what DAC's will be in the XMC-2. Be nice if the same as the RMC-1. Don't know specifically tripleb but I would concentrate on the whole path including the analog stages as the DACs are just 1 aspect  Pre pro's that have true input to output balanced LCR ; no single ended circuitry are absent from this price point.. That said the dual differential dacs on the RMC1 are AKM stereo dacs so presumably something at least from the same stable ? and stereo ones as well to accommodate the common mode rejection being a balanced circuit ? Good to speculate on these matters hey |
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Post by tripleb570 on Jun 8, 2017 7:14:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I understand that, but for those of us that have good processors now, I would want to know what ones are in it. Example, many run out and get an Oppo player, for the DAC's and Oppo quality. My current processor has the same DAC's in it already as the Oppo 203, with good circuitry. For me, it would be a waste to buy the Oppo, unless going to the 205 or something else if not interested in the disc player.
Some people also prefer the sound of one DAC manufacturer over another, even with similar circuitry. |
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Post by dwaleke on Jun 8, 2017 8:40:34 GMT -5
More than likely they will be the same dac chip and circuit design as rmc-1 (ak4490). Limited to differential circuit for l/c/r channels as mentioned way back to keep price lower compared to the cost no object design of the rmc-1.
All subject to change until the units are being shipped to customers.
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Post by rhale64 on Jun 8, 2017 12:02:48 GMT -5
All subject to change until the units are being shipped to customers.
Hopefully very soon. I am buying the Oppo 203 just for that reason. Don't need the dacs. I am hoping the Dacs in the RMC1'S digital section are fantastic.
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Post by cwt on Jun 8, 2017 13:35:04 GMT -5
Some people also prefer the sound of one DAC manufacturer over another, even with similar circuitry Certainly ; It makes sense to bulk buy the dacs being stereo not mono dacs for both lines but the best clue so far is this from Dan [ note a few think ESS dacs are rather analytical and detailed ; KeithL has mentioned this personal preference too iirc ] emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/859046/threadWhats nice about the LCR balanced is the theoretical improvement in the s/n ratio with a complete balanced system including the right fully balanced power amp |
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Post by tripleb570 on Jun 8, 2017 13:48:08 GMT -5
All subject to change until the units are being shipped to customers. Hopefully very soon. I am buying the Oppo 203 just for that reason. Don't need the dacs. I am hoping the Dacs in the RMC1'S digital section are fantastic.
The Oppo 203 uses the AK4458 Dac's, and the RMC is supposed to have the AK4490. In theory the RMC should sound better than the Oppo with similar circuitry. (if one could tell the difference).
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Post by goozoo on Jun 8, 2017 14:00:53 GMT -5
So for $1300, one can buy the Oppo 205 run straight into some good quality amps and out to great speakers and call it done for a 7.1 system and have it sound like the RMC-1. Hell, the wait is over.
Wait...I thought the Oppo uses Sabre dacs. Yes....it does. OK, back to waiting for the RMC-1.
How silly this hobby has become.
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Post by Loop 7 on Jun 8, 2017 14:11:56 GMT -5
So for $1300, one can buy the Oppo 205 run straight into some good quality amps and out to great speakers and call it done for a 7.1 system and have it sound like the RMC-1. Hell, the wait is over. Wait...I thought the Oppo uses Sabre dacs. Yes....it does. OK, back to waiting for the RMC-1. How silly this hobby has become. Yes, one has to ask to what degree any new home theater processor would improve the movie watching experience. In other words, what does another $3,000 get you? Does the level of resolution require an additional speaker upgrade to notice a real difference? The same is often asked about restaurants; how much better is a $100 meal than a $50 meal? |
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Pre pro's that have true input to output balanced LCR ; no single ended circuitry are absent from this price point..
