cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 23, 2017 7:10:52 GMT -5
sydhaynes I do certainly understand there are many like you with real issues awaiting them being solved. Don't take my comments to harlan as any slight on how important it is to solve the issues. And, I don't see any issue, in fact I see great value, with people coming here and sharing issues they are having...it helps Emotiva troubleshoot. But when someone comes on, reports their issue, then at evey chance takes a dig at Emotiva while adding nothing new...that is beyond my limit. I do hope all of the issues are resolved soon, and I have faith Emotiva is doing all it can. Mark Mark this is my first experience with Emotiva products. I must say it's been it's been a little different than any other electronics purchase in the past.
I keep seeing references that "we agreed to be beta testers" and "we saved $100.00 by ordering early, so expect to see these teething issues". When I placed my order the only statement I remember out of the ordinary on the order page was "ships 12/30". I had no idea I was purchasing a product that was going to perform at less than 100%. I was eager to join the Emotiva family and take that "step up" from the mainstream audio manufacturers.
I understand you long time Emotiva owners have grown used to the business model here. But please remember for some of us this is a strange experience and the old "this is how we've always done it here" attitude doesn't help with our frustration.
I do appreciate Dan coming into the forum here and giving us updates. However I have to agree that the "no one pressured you to buy the MC-700" statement seems a little gruff. I was happy to buy the MC-700, but now I feel like my frustration is somehow my own fault for choosing this product.
I just want to make a comment. I understand perfectly where you are coming from. I've been an Emotiva owner for a few years now and just happenned upon the company when I was looking for a reasonably priced amplifier to boost the output of a Denon receiver that was having great difficulty driving my Thiel speakers. I ended up with the XPA-5 first gen and absolutely love it. Since then I've purchased several more of their products including the XMC-1. It had a few growing pains but has really settled down and also works and sounds great. I've had to call Emotiva on a couple of occasions for help and customer service was not an issue. Having said all that, processors are complicated pieces of gear involving the latest tech out there. Other companies have had issues including big names, Onkyo comes to mind with a faulty HDMI board. Denon has had issues. With the mainstream companies you will probably get a resolution eventually if enough people complain, but you will have to deal with customer service reps who read from a script. You will never talk to engineering or the CEO. For folks new to Emotiva.....it's been my experience that this company and it's proud owner, engineers, and employees will work as hard as they can to fix problems and satisfy it's customers. I've met both Dan and Lonnie and they are great guys. Sometimes it doesn't seem that way, but I would just say to have patience. |
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Post by harlan on Mar 23, 2017 7:37:44 GMT -5
"but no one pressured you to purchase the MC-700." Dan I cant believe you said the above, that would have to be the worst response from a CEO I have ever read. It's my fault I purchased a product based on how it was advertised to work. |
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Mar 23, 2017 9:03:54 GMT -5
Mark this is my first experience with Emotiva products. I must say it's been it's been a little different than any other electronics purchase in the past.
I keep seeing references that "we agreed to be beta testers" and "we saved $100.00 by ordering early, so expect to see these teething issues". When I placed my order the only statement I remember out of the ordinary on the order page was "ships 12/30". I had no idea I was purchasing a product that was going to perform at less than 100%. I was eager to join the Emotiva family and take that "step up" from the mainstream audio manufacturers.
I understand you long time Emotiva owners have grown used to the business model here. But please remember for some of us this is a strange experience and the old "this is how we've always done it here" attitude doesn't help with our frustration.
I do appreciate Dan coming into the forum here and giving us updates. However I have to agree that the "no one pressured you to buy the MC-700" statement seems a little gruff. I was happy to buy the MC-700, but now I feel like my frustration is somehow my own fault for choosing this product.
You have a right to be frustrated. I would be. In my history with their products, I have never felt like a beta tester and I genuinely believe they do not intend for early users to be a beta tester. They strive to get it right, but...Things happen...Sometimes more than others. The UMC-1 was the pinnacle of that. The MC700 is it's grandchild in that it is Cirrus-based. It seems to me the Cirrus based processors are a bit more finicky. The TI based XMC has been amazing for me and I bought as early as I could (after the wait list got filled). A key for me with Emotiva is that when a problem happens, they aggressively try to fix it. They do not communicate much as they used to because they learned in the past that the more they say, the more people use details against them (as in..."OMG...They are 3 days late...They are horrible!!!"). But as we just witnessed, they jumped on the dropout issue, did extensive analysis and found what appears to be a solution. And, they have an updated FW and are working on another. And FW fixes take time to get right. Net, yes...I see your frustrations. But I also can tell what is going on to fix it is getting done. Mark |
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Post by geebo on Mar 23, 2017 9:10:10 GMT -5
"but no one pressured you to purchase the MC-700." Dan I cant believe you said the above, that would have to be the worst response from a CEO I have ever read. It's my fault I purchased a product based on how it was advertised to work. Just curious, why not take the refund and be done with it? |
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Post by harlan on Mar 23, 2017 9:55:25 GMT -5
It's my fault I purchased a product based on how it was advertised to work. Just curious, why not take the refund and be done with it? As I have always maintained it sound awesome and if it worked as advertised it would meet my needs. I'm only 5.1 right now and I will do 7.1 when I move. I dont need atmos. Its the right size for my cabinet and it looks great sitting on top of my LPA1 (replaced the silver trim with black). My gripe is the lack of official communication. Dan finally let us know the BTM is fixed and that is great news to me as my work around (audio engine BT) has to be in analog 2 input since ARC isnt working. Because ARC doesnt work my TV is in Optical 1. When he didnt meet his promise on the manual all he had to do was explain that they are fine tuning the details rather than let us think they forgot about that committment. An update on ARC and input labelling would be nice and hopefully they can reduce the long handshake when switching inputs. I would have been happy if they just returned my call. So I like the sound. If I were to return it, I would need to return the BTM also and I dont think it would be fair to expect me to pay to ship it back. But I like the sound and the size and will stick it out. Hopefully they will afford us with regular updates on progress. |
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nrde
Minor Hero
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Post by nrde on Mar 23, 2017 10:48:51 GMT -5
It's my fault I purchased a product based on how it was advertised to work. Just curious, why not take the refund and be done with it? He has said it many times already. He doesn't want to turn back just before the last curve before the goal after putting so much effort already. I haven't received mine yet, and I hope I get a problem free unit. Small things on Emotiva's part would make these kind of _communication_ problems go away. - keep your promises - if you can't do that, let people know - don't blame people for buying your products, it's petty Asking unhappy customers to return faulty product doesn't make the problem go away. I.e., don't shoot the messenger even if the messenger is annoying to you or your community. Would harlan post his problems so often if his several calls were returned as promised? |
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Post by brutiarti on Mar 23, 2017 11:06:25 GMT -5
Asking unhappy customers to return faulty product doesn't make the problem go away. I.e., don't shoot the messenger even if the messenger is annoying to you or your community. Of course the problem doesn't go away returning the unit, but if the team at emotiva is working hard to fix the issues you have two options, have patience or return the unit for your good mental health. I bought one product from emotiva that died after 24 hrs of delivery, i called them, they send me a label to return it, they asked if i wanted a replacement and i said no because i already had a bad taste in my mouth, move on and bought a different brand. But i still support the company and keep buying products here and there. Sometimes customers just like the aggravation |
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Post by geebo on Mar 23, 2017 11:07:06 GMT -5
Just curious, why not take the refund and be done with it? He has said it many times already. He doesn't want to turn back just before the last curve before the goal after putting so much effort already. I haven't received mine yet, and I hope I get a problem free unit. Small things on Emotiva's part would make these kind of _communication_ problems go away. - keep your promises - if you can't do that, let people know - don't blame people for buying your products, it's petty Asking unhappy customers to return faulty product doesn't make the problem go away. I.e., don't shoot the messenger even if the messenger is annoying to you or your community. Would harlan post his problems so often if his several calls were returned as promised? If the product does not meet his needs Emotiva will refund the money. That is their business model. Try it and if you don't like it, return it. Or keep it. It's the buyer's choice. Emotiva is working to correct things and one can either wait for the results of that effort or not. Either you have faith they will make it satisfactory for you or you don't. |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 23, 2017 11:22:27 GMT -5
I agree that communication could be better especially when a time frame is provided and then for whatever reason not met. Maybe just an announcement explaining a delay. I think that is a simple fix.
Promises cannot always be kept as things change. Happens everyday in my line of work.
It's been communicated that Emotiva is working hard to solve these issues with the product. It appears they have made headway. That is good. However, if the process is too slow or if for some reason you don't think it can be done to your satisfaction, then for your peace of mind, you should return it and move on.
And lastly, returning phone calls. Sounds simple, but I've found that with any company and that includes the high end companies, it doesn't happen on a regular basis. I never wait for a call back. I always wait a day and then call back. It may not be right, but it is reality especially with a company that doesn't have a huge staff to field phone calls. Call back. Don't wait.
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Post by harlan on Mar 23, 2017 11:36:48 GMT -5
I agree that communication could be better especially when a time frame is provided and then for whatever reason not met. Maybe just an announcement explaining a delay. I think that is a simple fix. Promises cannot always be kept as things change. Happens everyday in my line of work. It's been communicated that Emotiva is working hard to solve these issues with the product. It appears they have made headway. That is good. However, if the process is too slow or if for some reason you don't think it can be done to your satisfaction, then for your peace of mind, you should return it and move on. And lastly, returning phone calls. Sounds simple, but I've found that with any company and that includes the high end companies, it doesn't happen on a regular basis. I never wait for a call back. I always wait a day and then call back. It may not be right, but it is reality especially with a company that doesn't have a huge staff to field phone calls. Call back. Don't wait. Part of my problem maybe that the Company I manage is extremely customer focused and it would be completely unacceptable to not return a call or to not address a customers issue. I'm guessing that the company I work for is much larger than Emotiva and we probably have more resources. I'm also guessing that we also have a lot more customers consuming those resources. Yes you can place the onus on the customer for communications or Emotiva knowing my concerns could look up my number in their database and call me, they could email me or they could IM me here. I feel somewhat better now that Dan has clarified a few things. With that said I couldnt imagine me responding to a customer no matter how difficult I thought they were with "no one forced you to buy my product". |
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Post by gr8erimage on Mar 23, 2017 11:56:50 GMT -5
Part of my problem maybe that the Company I manage is extremely customer focused and it would be completely unacceptable to not return a call or to not address a customers issue. I'm guessing that the company I work for is much larger than Emotiva and we probably have more resources. I'm also guessing that we also have a lot more customers consuming those resources. Yes you can place the onus on the customer for communications or Emotiva knowing my concerns could look up my number in their database and call me, they could email me or they could IM me here. I feel somewhat better now that Dan has clarified a few things. With that said I couldnt imagine me responding to a customer no matter how difficult I thought they were with "no one forced you to buy my product". I'm glad Emotiva is busy trying to solve the verified problems instead of responding to every victim on their forum. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 23, 2017 12:02:37 GMT -5
harlan may I suggest you do your research better before you buy gear. All this complaining here on this Emotiva fan Lounge is not going to get you satisfaction.
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Post by harlan on Mar 23, 2017 12:10:58 GMT -5
harlan may I suggest you do your research better before you buy gear. All this complaining here on this Emotiva fan Lounge is not going to get you satisfaction. Lol....I guess you are correct. Lots of confirmation bias. At this point I heard what Dan said and I'm fairly satisfied they will solve their product issues. Im just chilling out as I have Thursdays off responding to folks telling me how I should feel. Its kind of comical at this point. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 23, 2017 12:34:29 GMT -5
This MC-700 came out of the development of the UMC-1. They used the cirrus logic and made there own operating system. At the time the UMC-1 was being built every prepro out there had bugs. The $14,000 prepro had bugs. Emotiva was breaking ground with a first class surround prepro with first class analog performance at a silly price. It was a nightmare harlan. You should have been here. This was a small company competing with the big boys and it took a lot of work to finally get that UMC-1 with it's cirrus logic chips and the limitation of that chip into a almost solid piece of gear that you still will have to pry from the hands of some here. The UMC-1 is serving some as an excellent prepro. The UMC-200 was next and now the MC-700. When the MC-700 came out, if you did your research you would know to expect some bugs in a new product from Emotiva with the cirrus logic chips. They don't try to release there new gear with bugs but with all the different gear out there and the fact that Emotiva can not ring gear out for years like mega buck companies, you get some bugs that get through. Mega buck companies pour more money into research and development on one product than Emotiva can spend on all there products. They are a small company that designs and builds Audio gear that performs very good for the price. That is Big Dan's mission. He is working hard to bring you and all of us a great products for a great price. That means you may have to wait a few months to get the bugs worked out. If you want bug free right off the bat then get a XMC-1. Emotiva spent big bucks with the development of the XMC-1 with Texas Instrument chips and a new operating system. |
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Post by harlan on Mar 23, 2017 12:58:45 GMT -5
Axis,
Thanks for the background info. I can respect that. No where in the marketing literature, the teasers in industry publications did it say people buying were beta testors.
We are all here now and I am waiting just like everyone else. I just feel strongly that the communications could be better. Its a unique experience for some of us to buy a product that doesnt work as advertised then be told by folks on a forum to shut up and wait.
I guess I'm naive to the Emotiva way. My LPA has been nothing but awesome the entire 10 years I have owned it. Im looking forward to my MC700 giving me equally stellar performance and value.
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Post by Axis on Mar 23, 2017 13:42:36 GMT -5
Give up on the MC-700. It clearly is not for you. Again, you should have known this was a possibility because you previous have purchased Emotiva products and should know the history of the product you were buying before you bought it. A prepro is a complicated piece of gear. They do a lot of things. It is not a kitchen knife !
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 23, 2017 13:53:33 GMT -5
Axis, Thanks for the background info. I can respect that. No where in the marketing literature, the teasers in industry publications did it say people buying were beta testors. We are all here now and I am waiting just like everyone else. I just feel strongly that the communications could be better. Its a unique experience for some of us to buy a product that doesnt work as advertised then be told by folks on a forum to shut up and wait. I guess I'm naive to the Emotiva way. My LPA has been nothing but awesome the entire 10 years I have owned it. Im looking forward to my MC700 giving me equally stellar performance and value. I agree that Emotiva could do a better job of communicating when problems arise with a new product. With that being said, I also believe that with patience you will be very happy with your new product. Glitches got through the vetting process, be patient, the product will be all it is advertised to be. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 23, 2017 14:12:59 GMT -5
Axis, Thanks for the background info. I can respect that. No where in the marketing literature, the teasers in industry publications did it say people buying were beta testors. We are all here now and I am waiting just like everyone else. I just feel strongly that the communications could be better. Its a unique experience for some of us to buy a product that doesnt work as advertised then be told by folks on a forum to shut up and wait. I guess I'm naive to the Emotiva way. My LPA has been nothing but awesome the entire 10 years I have owned it. Im looking forward to my MC700 giving me equally stellar performance and value. I agree that Emotiva could do a better job of communicating when problems arise with a new product. With that being said, I also believe that with patience you will be very happy with your new product. Glitches got through the vetting process, be patient, the product will be all it is advertised to be. Hello, they are communicating. They are saying stay tuned to future updates. They are saying they are working on it but it is not going to happen on a certain date. They do not know when the updates will be ready because they do not have it figured out yet. They are working on it and want it to be ready as soon as it can be but if they say tomorrow and it is not ready tomorrow then you will cuss them out for it. There are people at work at Emotiva working on these problems. They have a job and everybody is counting on them to figure it all out and make it work right. I do not think they are out back smoking pot and not doing there job. Let's cut them some slack and give it some time and they will do there best to work the problems out. Most here are rooting for Emotiva to get it right. For the most part they are. I say Emotiva is doing good, but I would like to see Emotiva move on from this platform. |
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Post by Ruiner46 on Mar 23, 2017 14:15:20 GMT -5
I love everyone here telling harlan and others with problems to just return their MC700. I appreciate all of harlan's posts because he is voicing my opinions. The main issue that we have is the lack of communication from Emotiva. For instance, if you say you are going to ship a new manual by a certain date, and then miss that date, it would be great to get some kind of update instead of radio silence. Harlan has just been pushing buttons to get an update from Big Dan and it looks like it finally worked.
I doubt Emotiva appreciates all of you just telling people to return their product. You're not helping anyone by suggesting that we just give up. Reporting these problems and pushing Emotiva to fix things is the only way that we will get all of this stuff worked out, and turn the MC700 into the great product it should be. I personally have no problem being a "beta tester" as long as the reported bugs get attention.
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Post by Axis on Mar 23, 2017 14:20:18 GMT -5
I love everyone here telling harlan and others with problems to just return their MC700. I appreciate all of harlan's posts because he is voicing my opinions. The main issue that we have is the lack of communication from Emotiva. For instance, if you say you are going to ship a new manual by a certain date, and then miss that date, it would be great to get some kind of update instead of radio silence. Harlan has just been pushing buttons to get an update from Big Dan and it looks like it finally worked. I doubt Emotiva appreciates all of you just telling people to return their product. You're not helping anyone by suggesting that we just give up. Reporting these problems and pushing Emotiva to fix things is the only way that we will get all of this stuff worked out, and turn the MC700 into the great product it should be. I personally have no problem being a "beta tester" as long as the reported bugs get attention. I bet Emotiva would love for harlan to just return this and stop complaining. I am tired of him complaining and I bet most people here are tired of him complaining. |
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