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Post by Loop 7 on Jun 5, 2017 11:13:14 GMT -5
I've observed some compatibility issues with the UMC-200 (black levels, switching) with the Amazon Fire Stick and two Roku models that I was not able to reproduce on three different Pioneer Elite AVRs. I always placed blame on the non-Emotiva devices even though the issues were probably the fault of both parties in some small way.
Frustrating? Sure but my desire for a processor like the UMC-200, and it's stellar price in 2013, is worth a hassle or two.
An XMC-1 would be a nice luxury but the UMC-200 does everything I need - 1080p, 5.1.
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Post by harlan on Jun 5, 2017 11:17:33 GMT -5
Can we clarify something?
As a possible reason why there are interface issues ( excuse?), we are told that other manufacturers' products don't meet the standard (eg Sony). We are offered no proof of that only implication.
On the other hand, when asked how do Denon, Marantz et al deal with it, we are told that they a large corporations with the resources to deal with it. It is also implied without proof, that they short change AQ in the process.
So how is it that Marantz and Denon are large enough to deal with other manufacturers short comings and Sony et al are not large enough to meet standards that they help craft?
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Post by GTPlus on Jun 5, 2017 11:54:08 GMT -5
The short answer is that we're talking about interactions between very complex systems, and we do our best to get everything to work perfectly together, but we don't always succeed 100%. That means that, whenever we become aware of an issue that's being experienced by a bunch of customers, we do our best to fix it. However, if it's something that only seems to be experienced by one or two customers, and it seems to be due to another piece of equipment not complying with the standard, we may not be able to do much about it. It's a lot easier to get things to work according to the standard than it is to second guess how other people will diverge from the standard and compensate for their variations... (And, yes, to be honest, if we sold a million MC-700's, we'd have more resources to dedicate to making sure it works well with every other device out there.) And, yes, a lot of that DSP functionality is inside the Cirrus DSP chip - and we don't have access to modify the internal DSP code (we can access it in various ways, and with various options, but we cannot rewrite it). The Cirrus chip we use behaves in certain unique ways, and the entire FAMILY of Cirrus chips behaves in certain unique ways. (There are only a few choices; mainly from Texas Instruments and Cirrus.) The MC-700 does a lot of things a lot better than the UMC-1 ... but it's still possible that the UMC-1 is more tolerant of certain specific things than the MC-700. The Emersa products are still on the way; they have been delayed a bit (we gave priority to the BasX line due to demand). We expect the Emersa line to be available right around the end of this year. Thanks, I appreciate the response. I think that is a fair answer. Sometimes for me, because I work with Mfg quality, it is hard to let go of issues and I get very focused finding the root cause and solution. I do understand that I might be an outlier with the PS4 and don't expect a focus of resources just for my concern. But knowing the issues is recorded is good to know. FWIW, I really would like to see what is going on with the interactions via the HDMI. I am guessing something in the EDID data is causing the PS4 to constantly go back to LPCM and /or not pass audio. If anyone has some suggestions let me know. |
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Post by Axis on Jun 5, 2017 14:12:43 GMT -5
We agree entirely. (... and DO remember that not everyone has the same priorities.) We think the MC-700 is an excellent deal for its price, but we agree that the XMC-1 is a lot better. (And the RMC-1 will be even better.  ) I recommend for everyone to not buy this product from Emotiva and vote for something better with your wallet. As long as you guys keep buying this old tech crap Emotiva will keep selling it. I do not blame Emotiva for the flawed chip and all the headaches it has caused since they used it with the UMC-1. They make money with it. I want them to make boat loads of money and improve there gear like the RMC-1. Everyone that has bought these products and complain have not done there research properly. I waited for the UMC-1 and watched what happen with it and decided within weeks to never buy a prepro with the cirrus chip. You guys say your smart and I do not get it. Sorry to be so brutal. I know you guys are fighting the good fight. I am a fan and just would like to see the bar raised. Please cut this design from your inventory as soon as you can.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 5, 2017 15:27:11 GMT -5
OK, Axis - You find the MC-700's flaws to be intolerable. I, however, find them tolerable in exchange for the sound quality that the unit provides. So it's a matter of priorities - yours are "everything has to work perfectly." Mine are "if it sounds good enough, I'm willing to put up with what, for me, are nothing but minor irritations." So considering the fact that Emotiva does have a history of fixing minor problems with firmware updates, I'm not yet ready (or even close to ready) to say "cut this design from your inventory." In fact, I know of no other processor that provides the sound quality of the MC-700 for anything close to its price. Are there some processors that I've missed? And no, I won't consider an AVR with pre-outs as serious competition. Not until you've gotten so far from the MC-700's price that it's a ludicrous comparison. I understand your frustration. But I honestly think that you're wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Cordially - Boomzilla |
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Post by adaboy on Jun 5, 2017 15:34:37 GMT -5
OK, Axis - You find the MC-700's flaws to be intolerable. I, however, find them tolerable in exchange for the sound quality that the unit provides. So it's a matter of priorities - yours are "everything has to work perfectly." Mine are "if it sounds good enough, I'm willing to put up with what, for me, are nothing but minor irritations." So considering the fact that Emotiva does have a history of fixing minor problems with firmware updates, I'm not yet ready (or even close to ready) to say "cut this design from your inventory." In fact, I know of no other processor that provides the sound quality of the MC-700 for anything close to its price. Are there some processors that I've missed? And no, I won't consider an AVR with pre-outs as serious competition. Not until you've gotten so far from the MC-700's price that it's a ludicrous comparison. I understand your frustration. But I honestly think that you're wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Cordially - Boomzilla Your opinion is greatly respected; however, on this item I'd think Emotiva should throw this chip out with the bath water. In my opinion the MC-700 should have been based on the XMC-1 chip. Sometimes you have to go with what works. Those chips aren't so expensive that Emo couldn't justify a watered down version for perceived sound quality. I have a feeling after this debacle they won't use it again as it has hurt their reputation just as they were beginning to win over more audio snobs reluctant to give Emo a chance. |
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Post by Axis on Jun 5, 2017 15:43:49 GMT -5
OK, Axis - You find the MC-700's flaws to be intolerable. I, however, find them tolerable in exchange for the sound quality that the unit provides. So it's a matter of priorities - yours are "everything has to work perfectly." Mine are "if it sounds good enough, I'm willing to put up with what, for me, are nothing but minor irritations." So considering the fact that Emotiva does have a history of fixing minor problems with firmware updates, I'm not yet ready (or even close to ready) to say "cut this design from your inventory." In fact, I know of no other processor that provides the sound quality of the MC-700 for anything close to its price. Are there some processors that I've missed? And no, I won't consider an AVR with pre-outs as serious competition. Not until you've gotten so far from the MC-700's price that it's a ludicrous comparison. I understand your frustration. But I honestly think that you're wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Cordially - Boomzilla I am just looking at the complaints Boom. I think you said you are about to review and I know for a fact you will be fair. I look forward to your review. I supported the UMC-1 as I also disagreed with it personally. I did my research and learned form technical information that would not be here that years ago to bring a surround processor to market would cost no less that millions. Those chips were the only game in town and Emotive pounded there way through the issues with it when many could not. Emotiva has very good analog. They make the best of chip limitations with there designs. I have railed about this only after they keep putting it out and it be a fire storm. I do not want Emotiva to be in a fire storm. I do not know even if they have made up for what they put into it. They are in charge, not me. They need to throw this bath water away and get on with new designs. KeithL said they are today and I am proud of them for wanting to raise the bar. Big Dan has said many times he wants that very thing and I believe him. Let's go ! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 5, 2017 16:20:09 GMT -5
Well, for better or worse, my review will be based on my own experiences with the component. Not what others think or say online. I appreciate your opinions, and consider them valid. Emotiva needs to address your concerns, and I'd encourage you to contact them directly.
Cordially - Boomzilla
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Post by jolaca on Jun 5, 2017 17:57:11 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear 'Boom' words as I'm sure he will have tested this processor thoroughly to come to his conclusion and I wonder if all these critic voices have also really listened to it properly.
I'm quite new in here and I want to be respectful with everyone in the forum but I cannot believe how radical can some guys be : It doesn't seem reasonable to only want to accept the very best to be manufactured by Emotiva and to throw away all the rest.
Really? I do understand that you may not like an specific DAC chip or don't want for yourselves an entry level processor (even if you own another one), but why do you have to be so rude and so taxactive?. I again respectfully don't mind what you think but I do think it's a pity that been so extreme you may be misleading others that are really searching for a good processor with good sound quality at an affordable price and were pointing towards the MC700. I mean for me it's an entry level processor in price but not at all in performance, quite the opposite. I'm quite old now and I do know how a good system sounds. I don't get why some caveats (like not the best menu system) have to spoil all the other fundamental advantages.
And may I ask, what alternatives do you recommend?, I mean, I would love to have an XMC-1, but for those of us that can't afford it right now, what do you recommend?? I have tried all obvious alternatives thoroughly by myself or with some friend's equipment: denon, onkyo, yamaha...and I found all of them to be CLEARLY worse SQ wise. But even then, I don't blame their products because I understand some people would prefer lots of features rather than real good sound quality, but this usually happens to people that have never listened to above average equipment.
So to possible buyers: please try it by yourself with good equipment, I did and there's truly no comparison between the MC700 sound and let's say for example an onkyo 7xx or 8xx one, my personal opinion is that they cannot compete at all with this Emotiva processor.
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Post by adaboy on Jun 5, 2017 18:12:29 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear 'Boom' words as I'm sure he will have tested this processor thoroughly to come to his conclusion and I wonder if all these critic voices have also really listened to it properly. I'm quite new in here and I want to be respectful with everyone in the forum but I cannot believe how radical can some guys be : It doesn't seem reasonable to only want to accept the very best to be manufactured by Emotiva and to throw away all the rest. Really? I do understand that you may not like an specific DAC chip or don't want for yourselves an entry level processor (even if you own another one), but why do you have to be so rude and so taxactive?. I again respectfully don't mind what you think but I do think it's a pity that been so extreme you may be misleading others that are really searching for a good processor with good sound quality at an affordable price and were pointing towards the MC700. I mean for me it's an entry level processor in price but not at all in performance, quite the opposite. I'm quite old now and I do know how a good system sounds. I don't get why some caveats (like not the best menu system) have to spoil all the other fundamental advantages. And may I ask, what alternatives do you recommend?, I mean, I would love to have an XMC-1, but for those of us that can't afford it right now, what do you recommend?? I have tried all obvious alternatives thoroughly by myself or with some friend's equipment: denon, onkyo, yamaha...and I found all of them to be CLEARLY worse SQ wise. But even then, I don't blame their products because I understand some people would prefer lots of features rather than real good sound quality, but this usually happens to people that have never listened to above average equipment. So to possible buyers: please try it by yourself with good equipment, I did and there's truly no comparison between the MC700 sound and let's say for example an onkyo 7xx or 8xx one, my personal opinion is that they cannot compete at all with this Emotiva processor. Thanks for chiming in, and I mean this respectfully, but the issues aren't as simple as the menu leaves much to be desired... It's that there are a lot of issues that Emotiva is aware of and have been aware of in a prior rendition of this product. The processing chip is what seems to be the limitation. You should be able to buy a processor and it work with out having to get into Fox viewing position like on Married with Children... If I buy a car for the horse power "SQ" but the seat belts malfunction, the air conditioning cuts out when you let the window down, or the horn beeps while driving down the hwy these would be problems that should have been corrected prior to release. Then to add insult to injury Emo says that nah it's the other guys that are the problem as they aren't following the standards? I find this hard to believe. Need examples? Walk into any Best Buy and demo the cheapest AVRs they have and I bet you it will work as expected with any and all compatible gear in Magnolia. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 5, 2017 18:31:27 GMT -5
Hi adaboy - You're exactly correct. A $300 AVR will work perfectly. Every time. Any brand. And ideally, a $500 processor from a "boutique" manufacturer should also. But in this case... So the bottom line is: What's the higher priority - great sound or flawless function? Because NO $300 AVR has the sound quality of the MC-700. None. Ever. You pays your money, you takes your choice. Yes, it would be nice if Emotiva had identified the problems and fixed them in the design stage (I'm sure they tried). Yes, it would be nice if Emotiva could issue a firmware update that would fix the bugs (I'm sure they're working on one). Yes, it would be nice if a $300, or $600, or even a $900 AVR could sound like separates. (but they don't). We're comparing some of the biggest audio companies in the world (that, for the most part are also part of larger conglomerates) with a much smaller company with much smaller resources. Despite that, yes, I understand that bugs can be infuriating. But neither you nor I can change that. What we ALL do is vote with our wallets depending on our priorities. And I'm beginning to suspect that we ALL have different ones. Cordially - Boom |
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Post by teaman on Jun 5, 2017 18:42:20 GMT -5
I will admit, I have steered clear of the Emo processors even though my Sherbourns were at one time sisters with them. Other than the handshake issues I have encountered with some of my Comcast Xfinity X1 boxes I really don't have anything bad to say about them. My Sherbourn SR-120 receivers are fantastic and the PT-7020C4's that I use paired with Emo XPA-2 and XPA-5 amps are pretty much without issue. I had actually contacted Keith at Emotiva a few times with random questions in regards to why I was having certain issues such as audio drop outs but in the end I found after swapping cable boxes it went away....so chalk that up to cut corners from Xfinity. To this point I have not been satisfied enough with the reviews in our forum to entice me to change what I have. 90% of viewing and listening to movies is done by myself alone. My wife and kids rarely take time to care what is on. In fact my wife turns the volume all the way down on the pre/pro or receiver and listens only to the television speakers....leaving me absolutely satisfied with what I have.
I must add that I am kind of shocked, disappointed and downright stumped as to how representatives of Emotiva can come into the forum and post their acknowledgement of issues with their processors even though this has been several years and several models with nearly identical problems and quirks. Not sure what part makes sense about talking with customers and succumbing to the product you just sold them not being up to snuff. Whatever. To each their own.
Tim
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Post by leefdalucky on Jun 5, 2017 18:43:06 GMT -5
I've been extolling the virtues of my emotiva processors for years to all my friends.
And like a lot of you, I lived through the buggy-as-hell-but-sweet UMC-1.(2010-March 2017 as a matter of fact)
The fact remains: it can have the best sound quality in all the world, but I won't be keeping this, if there's a chance it will blow my tweeters.
Keith, I'll kindly ask you to dig a little deeper on this one. It's not just 1 or 2 owners.
P.S. Actually FWIW, i'm also in favour of Emotiva ditching the cirrus platform. Time to move on.
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Post by Axis on Jun 5, 2017 19:03:13 GMT -5
Hi adaboy - You're exactly correct. A $300 AVR will work perfectly. Every time. Any brand. And ideally, a $500 processor from a "boutique" manufacturer should also. But in this case... So the bottom line is: What's the higher priority - great sound or flawless function? Because NO $300 AVR has the sound quality of the MC-700. None. Ever. You pays your money, you takes your choice. Yes, it would be nice if Emotiva had identified the problems and fixed them in the design stage (I'm sure they tried). Yes, it would be nice if Emotiva could issue a firmware update that would fix the bugs (I'm sure they're working on one). Yes, it would be nice if a $300, or $600, or even a $900 AVR could sound like separates. (but they don't). We're comparing some of the biggest audio companies in the world (that, for the most part are also part of larger conglomerates) with a much smaller company with much smaller resources. Despite that, yes, I understand that bugs can be infuriating. But neither you nor I can change that. What we ALL do is vote with our wallets depending on our priorities. And I'm beginning to suspect that we ALL have different ones. Cordially - Boom I think priorities is one of those things David was talking about with interfaces. The manufacturer sets the priorities and yes if Emotiva sold millions of units this would more than likely not be so much an issue because they would have more control. This is Emotiva's only prepro under $1000. No one but Emotiva can decide what level of performance they choose to make available for this price range. The XMC-1 was originally going to be the under $1000 prepro. The price went up because the cost to make it went up. Take it out of the picture for that price range and now there is the third generation of the UMC-1 in the form of the MC-700 available from Emotiva. It is a 7 channel surround processor with EMO-Q and Dolby/DTS high definition sound. It has a killer analog section that outperforms a receiver in it's price range. There are good things to say about it. There are good things to say about it because Big Dan has made it his mission to bring High End sound at real prices. If your hanging out here you know that and appreciate all the price killer gear that Emotiva has been providing us Audio nuts. We are lucky that Dan decided to do what he is doing and put together a mean and lean machine to do it. Ok, me is saying this and me wants something better for under $1000. Two and a half years ago it was the Emersa prepro that was that under $1000 prepro with the TI chips and there new operating system used in the XMC-1. There was a suggestion and talk of a XMC-1 light with seven channels and Dirac but both the Emersa prepro and the XMC-1 light were not made because Emotiva decided they would not sale without Atmos. The sales on the MC-700 seven channel without Atmos are good or it would be off the cart. Emotiva has no problem taking a product that does not sale good off there inventory. I applaud them for there moves to improve and still keep prices down. The Bas-X line is a great example of improving products and still keeping prices down. That's there mission and it is a Win Win for everyone. The MC-700 in my opinion should have never been made but I do not have the whole picture. I am frustrated that Emotiva has not moved on from this platform for there under $1000 prepro. |
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Post by frisco on Jun 5, 2017 23:44:57 GMT -5
2.9 seems to help with audio drop outs, but noticed something new. When I pause the TiVo, and then restart playing, most of the time the sound starts a couple of seconds after the video returns.
Sometimes though I get a harsh beep before the audio returns. I think You can predict this by the dialogue boxes that appear on the screen during pause. If you get a no audio signal dialogue box, no beep on restart. If I get a pcm dialogue box during pause, then the beep occurs on the restart of the audio.
i can live with the audio delay, but worry about the beep and my speakers.
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Post by leefdalucky on Jun 6, 2017 6:32:16 GMT -5
2.9 seems to help with audio drop outs, but noticed something new. When I pause the TiVo, and then restart playing, most of the time the sound starts a couple of seconds after the video returns. Sometimes though I get a harsh beep before the audio returns. I think You can predict this by the dialogue boxes that appear on the screen during pause. If you get a no audio signal dialogue box, no beep on restart. If I get a pcm dialogue box during pause, then the beep occurs on the restart of the audio. i can live with the audio delay, but worry about the beep and my speakers. Like I said: it's not just 1 or 2 owners. |
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Post by vneal on Jun 6, 2017 6:54:09 GMT -5
I was thinking about the MC700 and for me I am glad I passed
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Post by harlan on Jun 6, 2017 7:20:05 GMT -5
2.9 seems to help with audio drop outs, but noticed something new. When I pause the TiVo, and then restart playing, most of the time the sound starts a couple of seconds after the video returns. Sometimes though I get a harsh beep before the audio returns. I think You can predict this by the dialogue boxes that appear on the screen during pause. If you get a no audio signal dialogue box, no beep on restart. If I get a pcm dialogue box during pause, then the beep occurs on the restart of the audio. i can live with the audio delay, but worry about the beep and my speakers. Like I said: it's not just 1 or 2 owners. Its your other equipment that is the problem . Im surprised ay how many people, including the "reviewer" who are quick to rationalize things. Should it not work as advertised? Why is it wrong to expect it to do things that Emotiva said it will do? |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 7, 2017 9:37:21 GMT -5
There seems to be a very frequent problem with USB drives not being recognized by the MC; even by people who follow the formatting and instructions to the T. I know I have a couple that don't work but was able to find 1 that did. I am curious if anyone has sent them (or if they've even asked) non-working drives so they could investigate and diagnose?
I am going to have to assume that this one *can't* be on the thumb drive manufacturers not following the USB spec close enough.
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Post by harlan on Jun 7, 2017 20:56:53 GMT -5
There seems to be a very frequent problem with USB drives not being recognized by the MC; even by people who follow the formatting and instructions to the T. I know I have a couple that don't work but was able to find 1 that did. I am curious if anyone has sent them (or if they've even asked) non-working drives so they could investigate and diagnose? I am going to have to assume that this one *can't* be on the thumb drive manufacturers not following the USB spec close enough. I was able to update mine first try with a newly purchased thunb drive. I sent that exact same drive to another member who was having issues and it didn't work. Not sure you could blame the drive. Seems like the MC700 is finicky. |
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