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Post by garbulky on Jun 15, 2017 10:21:44 GMT -5
Things are all hooked up. Running smooth as butter. I'm beginning to think I'm going to be sending the Optane memory back. Currently AFAIK there's no way to get it to do mechanical hard drive caching. Other than that, I couldn't be happier with this PC. Boomzilla - your recommendation for a Mac though good in terms of it being ready made crash safe, probably won't work for me. There is a premium cost for a MAC and one with the specs of this PC is going to cost a lot more than I paid for it. For instance the Mac Pro premium version which doesn't have the performance and features I want costs $4000. Don't get me wrong the Mac pro is a real beast - for other types of work with its ridiculous 8 processor cores. Just not for my requirements. I spent a fraction of that price to get mine though I did have to spend a whole day to set it up with some trial and error - that was the price I had to pay! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2017 7:01:30 GMT -5
Hi garbulky - You're entirely correct - In the "specs for the buck" wars, the mac doesn't seem like any deal. But there are costs associated with the PC that don't occur with the mac. Some of these include: Anti-virus software - Apple watches for mac viri and issues immediate (and free) patches to the OS to avoid these Anti-malware software - ditto Durability - My macs have been significantly more physically robust than my past PCs Lack of compatibility problems - Although there IS less software available for Mac, the fact that Apple controls their hardware so tightly means that just about any software that IS available for Mac works perfectly without glitches and without interfering with any other software. Free OS updates - MS charges for their updates and then stops supporting their obsolete operating systems. Apple OS changes are free and Apple generally supports "legacy" systems longer. Plug & play - Migrating from a previous OS to a new one is bulletproof. I've never lost data or had any hitches going from a previous OS to a new one. Now for many users, these "advantages" aren't important. I understand that. I also understand that some software / hardware doesn't work on anything but a PC. I'm not knocking PCs - Only saying that for my business use (primary goal of having my computers), the Mac has been more than sufficient. This is somewhat ironic, since the main program that I use for business is a "PC only" piece of software. But with VMWare Fusion, I can run as many operating systems as I need on my Mac (as you could with your PC, using the same software). That gives me the physical reliability and virus-resistance of the mac with the convenience of Windows. How does this work? I don't let my "virtual Windows machine" communicate with the internet. It only runs the business software. Therefore, it's run for years without a single virus. For email & web browsing, I use the Mac OS. But enough already - You're either a Republican or a Democrat (a PC-person or a Mac-person) and never the two shall meet. I'm glad you're enjoying your new PC & look forward to seeing it next time I'm over. Cheers - Boom |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jun 16, 2017 7:11:07 GMT -5
For the price of their gear, Apple should have free OS updates and should build in anti-virus and anti-malware! LOL!
Seriously though...the Mac/Windows things is a lot like politics. And, I used to find Windows very crash-prone, not-very plug and play, and generally harder to use. But, for me - since W8 and now especially w/W10...I find the Windows OS to be VERY stable. And, when I use PC's that don't have the PC-maker's bloatware built in (such as buying or building a Powerspec or using my MS Surfae Pro 3), it's great. Very plug and play also...yet, when I hear people talk about what they are using to do things with their Mac...I hear a chain of gear and software that boggles my mind. I cannot figure out what the stuff even is, and it doesn't sound so plug and play to me anymore. Net, to me - the world has changed to the point that the differences between them are more based on what interface a person likes. For me, I'm so familiar with Windows and really find the Apply interface confusing. So, I stick with Windows.
Mark
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 8:40:38 GMT -5
Yeah, and it's also funny how, when the claim USED TO BE that "any Apple program will run on any Apple computer", now you seem to run into so many programs that ONLY run on the latest O/S, and seem to require you to get a memory upgrade to do that. Windows computers have gotten easier and less complicated, and Apple computers have gotten harder and MORE complicated (but at least they haven't gotten any cheaper  .) One useful note..... (and I haven't tried this since Windows 10 came out). If you buy a Dell computer, and you buy one from the "Business Computer Department", they WILL sell you one without the bloatware - if you ask. Even better, your restore discs also won't have the bloatware, so you won't have to remove it all over again if you have to reinstall Windows. (They will cheerfully sell you one computer, and the prices are comparable, but the individual models are different.....) This may have changed, at least somewhat, now that part of the bloat is in Windows itself... but it's worth a try. For the price of their gear, Apple should have free OS updates and should build in anti-virus and anti-malware! LOL! Seriously though...the Mac/Windows things is a lot like politics. And, I used to find Windows very crash-prone, not-very plug and play, and generally harder to use. But, for me - since W8 and now especially w/W10...I find the Windows OS to be VERY stable. And, when I use PC's that don't have the PC-maker's bloatware built in (such as buying or building a Powerspec or using my MS Surfae Pro 3), it's great. Very plug and play also...yet, when I hear people talk about what they are using to do things with their Mac...I hear a chain of gear and software that boggles my mind. I cannot figure out what the stuff even is, and it doesn't sound so plug and play to me anymore. Net, to me - the world has changed to the point that the differences between them are more based on what interface a person likes. For me, I'm so familiar with Windows and really find the Apply interface confusing. So, I stick with Windows. Mark |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 8:43:53 GMT -5
My favorite "Windows-ism" is where you have the option to "enable targeted advertising". .... followed by a note that reminds you that, by disabling targeted advertising, you WON'T get any fewer commercials..... but what you get will just be less targeted to your specific interests. And, yeah, SSDs are really nice for Windows. (Even adding a small SSD as a boot drive to an older machine makes a HUGE difference.) Okay guys, after a looot of struggle, failures, I am typing to you from a brand new PC! The watercooler temperature is reporting an insane 29 degrees celsius and indeed the volume of the fan is very very quiet. I still have a ways to go. Getting sound and the optane technology to get running, transferring my old files from my failing PC etc. You know the drill. somethings I've learned. - The motherboard manuals as B'zilla would say - Suuuuuuuuuuuuuccckksss! - Most manuals for the products that I bought - suuuuuuuucks - Emotiva lounge and their fellow helpful members - fantastic!! - Solid state hard drives are just INSANE!! Windows 10 is booting so fast like it's nobody's business. Everything pretty much responds instantly. - My 3000 Mhz DDR4 ram is reporting as 1066 mhz for some strange reason. I have it setup as the second slot and the fourth slot. It is double sided chips. (And my MB says it supports this speed memory) - MS wants to steal ALL your data. They are even up front about it...starting on the very first dialogue box which says "would you like the express option to steal all your data or do you want to customize how we steal your data"? Okay...onward...! |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 8:57:10 GMT -5
Mechanical hard drives can fail for a lot of reasons... They last far better than they used to, but they still have a finite life expectancy. The other thing is that most of them already have some sort of detection and bypass mechanism for minor surface errors. This means that, by the time you start to notice "hard errors", the deterioration may be rather advanced. Also, once file corruption starts to occur, it snowballs rapidly. (Imagine trying to find books in a burning library - once the card file starts to burn.) And, once the file allocation tables and partition table become damaged, recovering data becomes problematic as well. If you have anything on the drive that you actually CARE about, what you need to do is to remove it immediately, and install a new boot drive. (Windows does a LOT of reads and writes when it boots up, and in normal operation; on a damaged drive, each write is another opportunity for more damage to occur. Therefore, you'll have a lot better chance of recovering your data if you immediately stop using that drive to run Windows. Instead, install a new boot drive, and connect your old drive as just a data drive... since you're only reading from it, this will minimize the progress of the deterioration.) Also remember the old wisdom... which is still true... ALL hard drives eventually fail... even SSDs... so BACK UP ANY DATA YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT. The time to make a copy of your data is BEFORE a problem occurs. (Drives last a lot better than they used to, but mechanical drives still wear out, and so do SSDs - for slightly different reasons.) Well gentlemen, I'm loving the quietness of the machine and the zippy nature it does things. Unfortunately it looks like both hard drives on my old machine are failing badly. I'm not sure why but it's made data recovery a pain. It just hangs after some time. Luckily I purchased new hard drives, but I'm wondering if there is something that could cause mechanical hard drives to fial? Some interesting comments. - M2 slots and the standoff and screws. WHO THE HECK CAME UP WITH THIS BS DESIGN?!?! Seriously .... who in their right mind came up with this?!?! Look....this was the most frustrating bit of the computer! What nut job?! Here's how it goes. It starts off with the chip looking like it's broken and you panicking because it is sticking up halfway out of the slot.  Then you discover you have to screw in a very very tiny screw which fits no standard screw driver size in to a motherboard standoff which also you have to move depending on the size. The motherboard stand off is also very tiny and hard to unscrew. Finally when you have the motherboard standoff in place, you try to put the screw in. Only to find out that not onyl is it hard as heck to slot in, the m2 drive flips up sticking out of the slot at an angle throwing the screw out before you can screw it in. I mean seriously. Why design something that will dislodge the very thing you are trying to use to keep the thing from disloding?! - Man...things are very very fast. There is literally no wait time on that flash drive. Windows has truly delivered the much wanted fast boot times. Now the dread of having to restart is no longer there. Before you know it, the machine is back in session ready to run. - Optane memory: turns out that it only works with a single mechanical drive. And it is pseudo permanent. You can't use mechanical the drive without it! Which could be a problem when one is trying to transfer files between machines during a failure. You can reverse this....but your machine needs to be working during this time. - The Kabylake processork. Processors have evolved since the last time I put things together. These new processors can change their clock speed on the fly dramatically. At one point it got down to the 1 ghz range to conserve power. And at one point I think it boosted itself slightly past its clock speed. - With 4k...the onboard dedicated unit for 4k on the Kabylake, literally completely relieves the processor burden for 4k. I saw whenever it played video, the processor basically lowered its clock speed in to the 1ghz range and had a usage of about 1%. There was way more processor usage when I moved the mouse! Since video is a large part of my usage, this is good to know. Windows 10 has so far been non obtrusive and not the nightmare I was dreading when using it on other machines. I've had very little need to use the metro interface so that's probably the reason. The win+tab keyboard shortcut is excellent and a very nice way of arranging things. -Cases are improved in the ways that it has better cooling integration but still a pain in the butt in terms of usability. Heh...I started at noon with oh this thing has all kinds of cool things so it's going to be a breeze to install. Later at 2 am, I was cursing the thing out. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 9:10:05 GMT -5
I hope you don't really hold out any ideas that Apple computers are safe from malware..... or that Apple's patches will keep you safe. I'm recalling the Trojan that infected 800,000 Macs a few years ago..... You might find a few of these articles interesting: fortune.com/2017/04/08/apple-malware-adware-mcafee/support.apple.com/kb/PH25087?locale=en_USwww.ibtimes.co.uk/first-ever-malware-service-apple-macs-discovered-dark-web-1625895(isn't it great how you can stay somewhat safer by only ever buying stuff from them?) While it's true that there is less Apple malware than PC malware (partly because Apple occupies a much smaller market share), that doesn't mean you're safe. You won't feel any better knowing that there are fewer types of malware that infect Apple computers if and when you get infected by one of them. I would agree that most Apple computers are pretty well made..... However, you can credit that to the fact that Apple makes all of them, and so has a monopoly on hardware - and does some very nice industrial engineering. You CAN buy some very nice PC computers, and some really crappy ones.... with Apple you just don't have that second choice because you have fewer options. (And you can buy a really nice PC for the price of an Apple computer.) Hi garbulky - You're entirely correct - In the "specs for the buck" wars, the mac doesn't seem like any deal. But there are costs associated with the PC that don't occur with the mac. Some of these include: Anti-virus software - Apple watches for mac viri and issues immediate (and free) patches to the OS to avoid these Anti-malware software - ditto Durability - My macs have been significantly more physically robust than my past PCs Lack of compatibility problems - Although there IS less software available for Mac, the fact that Apple controls their hardware so tightly means that just about any software that IS available for Mac works perfectly without glitches and without interfering with any other software. Free OS updates - MS charges for their updates and then stops supporting their obsolete operating systems. Apple OS changes are free and Apple generally supports "legacy" systems longer. Plug & play - Migrating from a previous OS to a new one is bulletproof. I've never lost data or had any hitches going from a previous OS to a new one. Now for many users, these "advantages" aren't important. I understand that. I also understand that some software / hardware doesn't work on anything but a PC. I'm not knocking PCs - Only saying that for my business use (primary goal of having my computers), the Mac has been more than sufficient. This is somewhat ironic, since the main program that I use for business is a "PC only" piece of software. But with VMWare Fusion, I can run as many operating systems as I need on my Mac (as you could with your PC, using the same software). That gives me the physical reliability and virus-resistance of the mac with the convenience of Windows. How does this work? I don't let my "virtual Windows machine" communicate with the internet. It only runs the business software. Therefore, it's run for years without a single virus. For email & web browsing, I use the Mac OS. But enough already - You're either a Republican or a Democrat (a PC-person or a Mac-person) and never the two shall meet. I'm glad you're enjoying your new PC & look forward to seeing it next time I'm over. Cheers - Boom |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 9:50:26 GMT -5
I've got to object to one thing you said - about Apple computers being more or less immune to malware. Apple malware is becoming much more common - especially in the last year or two... And part of the problem is that too many Apple users seem to believe that they don't need to worry about it. One piece of malware a few years ago infected something like 800,000 Apple computers... many of which were especially vulnerable because their owners didn't think they needed to worry about malware and viruses. And there is now even a "malware as a service" for Apple computers. I would also point out that, while they did make the process somewhat (OK... very) complicated, migration from Windows 7 through Windows 10 has also been free. (To me, it feels a bit like if a car company were to market their new car as "super safe" - by locking the GPS so you physically can't drive it into bad neighborhoods.) I would also point out that, if all you want to do is e-mail and web browsing, you can do so on a very cheap Chromebook or Android tablet. And I believe you will find that the Chromebook shares many of the safety advantages of a very tightly walled garden. I also feel obligated to point out that running Windows on WMWare on an Apple computer is FAR more complicated than using either a Windows or Apple computer on its own. The other catch is that, these days, most people are unable to "keep their business software isolated from the Internet"... because most modern business software relies heavily on "cloud this" and "shared that". (Note that I agree with you that Apple computers serve the needs of some people very well - including several people here at Emotiva. I just wanted to make sure to present a balanced picture to anyone who hasn't already decided which camp to join yet. ) Hi garbulky - You're entirely correct - In the "specs for the buck" wars, the mac doesn't seem like any deal. But there are costs associated with the PC that don't occur with the mac. Some of these include: Anti-virus software - Apple watches for mac viri and issues immediate (and free) patches to the OS to avoid these Anti-malware software - ditto Durability - My macs have been significantly more physically robust than my past PCs Lack of compatibility problems - Although there IS less software available for Mac, the fact that Apple controls their hardware so tightly means that just about any software that IS available for Mac works perfectly without glitches and without interfering with any other software. Free OS updates - MS charges for their updates and then stops supporting their obsolete operating systems. Apple OS changes are free and Apple generally supports "legacy" systems longer. Plug & play - Migrating from a previous OS to a new one is bulletproof. I've never lost data or had any hitches going from a previous OS to a new one. Now for many users, these "advantages" aren't important. I understand that. I also understand that some software / hardware doesn't work on anything but a PC. I'm not knocking PCs - Only saying that for my business use (primary goal of having my computers), the Mac has been more than sufficient. This is somewhat ironic, since the main program that I use for business is a "PC only" piece of software. But with VMWare Fusion, I can run as many operating systems as I need on my Mac (as you could with your PC, using the same software). That gives me the physical reliability and virus-resistance of the mac with the convenience of Windows. How does this work? I don't let my "virtual Windows machine" communicate with the internet. It only runs the business software. Therefore, it's run for years without a single virus. For email & web browsing, I use the Mac OS. But enough already - You're either a Republican or a Democrat (a PC-person or a Mac-person) and never the two shall meet. I'm glad you're enjoying your new PC & look forward to seeing it next time I'm over. Cheers - Boom |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 16, 2017 9:52:17 GMT -5
- NETFLIX 4k on the PC & also enabling 3d tv's. I don't know why but I don't think I'm getting Netflix in 4k on windows 10. I do have an HDCP 2.2 HDMI 2.0 monitor - or at least an HDMI 2.0 monitor. And my monitor does playback 4k on Youtube and reports a 4k resolution and "HDCP capability." I've got the 4k netflix package and I'm using edge browser, a 7th gen kabylake intel processor. Also it's the latest windows build. But I see no real indication that I'm watching in 4k. In fact the video motion is not good with noticeable blurring during spoken parts compared to my blu ray player that does 1080p. The scenes are also very dark. Anopther thing my 3d tv when I click "enable 3d tv" displays the 3d mode (put on 3d glasses message and blue led) for a second but no picture, and then it crashes back in to 2d. Enable 3d is checked in my Nvidia dialogue box. The only thing I can think is related to both these is that I have a non 4k, non 3d secondary monitor that's connected. I have told windows to use only the 4k monitor but have not physically disconnected the non 3d monitor. RAM SPEED HALF OF WHAT IT SHOULD BE Corsair 16GB 3200 Mhz ram giving only 1600 Mhz I have enabled XMP and the PC recognizes that it is DDR 3200 in the BIOS though it doesn't say what clock speed it's going at. But Speccy, the windows app reports that the RAM is 1600 Mhz. I've seen people on amazon comment on custom configuring this RAM. I just have had no experience. My Motherboard ASROCK 270 pro 4 is supposed to support this speed (and higher). I have it in RAm slots 2 and 4 (A2 and B2) which is apparently priority 2. Slots 1 and 3 being priority 1. I don't know if that's an issue. I moved it to 2 instead of 1 because 1 was very close to the hot processor and I just wanted to give it some space. Here is the RAM www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Desktop-Memory/dp/B0143UM4TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497623931&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+3200Motherboard link (states that the Corsair 3200 8gb modules are suipported - same model number CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 . I have two of these) www.asrock.com.tw/MB/Intel/Z270%20Pro4/index.asp#Memory
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 9:55:30 GMT -5
It's called miniaturization...... and it's CUTE . But, really, this thing is tiny. For easy access, and the most expansion options, nothing beats a full-sized tower. However, if you're trying to save space, then you're just going to have to sacrifice some convenience. I suspect they didn't design this with the expectation that you've be messing about inside very often..... (It bugs me more that, on some pretty big computers, there still isn't sufficient room to get your fingers into some tight places.) .................................... - M2 slots and the standoff and screws. WHO THE HECK CAME UP WITH THIS BS DESIGN?!?! Seriously .... who in their right mind came up with this?!?! Look....this was the most frustrating bit of the computer! What nut job?! |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 16, 2017 10:02:03 GMT -5
It's called miniaturization...... and it's CUTE . But, really, this thing is tiny. For easy access, and the most expansion options, nothing beats a full-sized tower. However, if you're trying to save space, then you're just going to have to sacrifice some convenience. I suspect they didn't design this with the expectation that you've be messing about inside very often..... (It bugs me more that, on some pretty big computers, there still isn't sufficient room to get your fingers into some tight places.) .................................... - M2 slots and the standoff and screws. WHO THE HECK CAME UP WITH THIS BS DESIGN?!?! Seriously .... who in their right mind came up with this?!?! Look....this was the most frustrating bit of the computer! What nut job?! The case is huuuuge! It's Standing at 1.75 feet by 1.75 feet X 0.75 feet. I actually got the ridonkulus size by accident. I was going for what I thought was the size of my normal full tower case...which turns out is apparently not considered a full tower and quite a bit smaller. Result is that I have to reach quite deep in to the case to get at stuff which made it tough when I'm trying to screw in this horrendously designed M2 chip with a nut that has a shallow tail and is the smallest size possible! Like I cant even hold it in my fingers small. There was honestly no reason to do it that way!! It was like the designer got denied his christmas vacation and said "oh yeah? Watch this!". And everybody who was equally drunk at this design party high fived him, laughing. Something like....make a bigger nut. Or don't use a $@#! nut. Ya know....sensible level headed stuff. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 10:18:24 GMT -5
I haven't paid much attention to the details of PC RAM lately.... but could it be that you're simply seeing DIFFERENT specifications. Don't assume that all of those cute little apps report the same exact specs, or describe them exactly the same way. (For example, three banks of 600 mHz RAM chips, interleaved, give you an aggregate access speed of 1800 mHz.) As for Netflix..... Bear in mind that the video on a Blu-Ray disc is already compressed, and the video on a 4k disc is actually compressed even more.... But, comparing Netflix to both, Netflix HD uses a lot more compression than a Blu-Ray disc, and Netflix 4k uses a LOT more compression than a 4k disc. (Proportionally, Netflix has something like 5x the compression of a Blu-Ray disc, and probably 10x the compression of a 4k disc - which means lower quality.) In other words, don't EXPECT the same quality from Netflix as you'd get from a 4k disc - or even close. Loss of detail in certain areas, and only at certain times, is a common COMPRESSION ARTIFACT. The type of sophisticated compression used these days allows for ongoing trade-offs between picture quality, sound quality, and frame rate. The detail in those areas was assigned a low priority and, when there wasn't enough bandwidth to deliver everything at good quality, that detail was sacrificed. These trade-offs occur at different points in the signal chain, so it could be that they heavily compressed the entire movie, or that the streaming server compressed it more in response to a network slowdown. There are usually even opportunities for human intervention (so they might have someone "hand optimize" a big-name movie, so it looks as good as possible, and just let the auto-compressor-thingy handle it for regular shows). (Details like dark swirling movements in dark clouds are often the first sort of detail to get the axe... and actual glitches are most often seen in complex scenes where "everything is moving" - like the action scenes in a Transformers movie.) As of the last report I read, only about half the people in the country have fast enough Internet service to get good delivery of Netflix HD. (So, since Netflix 4k requires significantly more bandwidth, we must assume that even fewer people get it "delivered properly".) And, if you haven't got enough bandwidth, you're going to get a poor quality picture... period. I would suggest trying to deliberately set Netflix to HD instead of 4k. If the picture gets better, and smoother, when you switch to HD, then you have a bandwidth issue (it could be your Internet connection or your computer). I would also check if your graphics card has HARDWARE ACCELERATION OF H.265 DECODING. Note that even some higher end graphics cards, some of which offer hardware ENCODING of H.265, still don't have hardware DECODING of H.265. Conversely, some mid-priced cards have HARDWARE DECODING, but not hardware encoding. It is hardware DECODING of H.265 that you need to get the best performance for VIEWING MOVIES. - NETFLIX 4k on the PC & also enabling 3d tv's. I don't know why but I don't think I'm getting Netflix in 4k on windows 10. I do have an HDCP 2.2 HDMI 2.0 monitor - or at least an HDMI 2.0 monitor. And my monitor does playback 4k on Youtube and reports a 4k resolution and "HDCP capability." I've got the 4k netflix package and I'm using edge browser, a 7th gen kabylake intel processor. Also it's the latest windows build. But I see no real indication that I'm watching in 4k. In fact the video motion is not good with noticeable blurring during spoken parts compared to my blu ray player that does 1080p. The scenes are also very dark. Anopther thing my 3d tv when I click "enable 3d tv" displays the 3d mode (put on 3d glasses message and blue led) for a second but no picture, and then it crashes back in to 2d. Enable 3d is checked in my Nvidia dialogue box. The only thing I can think is related to both these is that I have a non 4k, non 3d secondary monitor that's connected. I have told windows to use only the 4k monitor but have not physically disconnected the non 3d monitor. RAM SPEED HALF OF WHAT IT SHOULD BE Corsair 16GB 3200 Mhz ram giving only 1600 Mhz I have enabled XMP and the PC recognizes that it is DDR 3200 in the BIOS though it doesn't say what clock speed it's going at. But Speccy, the windows app reports that the RAM is 1600 Mhz. I've seen people on amazon comment on custom configuring this RAM. I just have had no experience. My Motherboard ASROCK 270 pro 4 is supposed to support this speed (and higher). I have it in RAm slots 2 and 4 (A2 and B2) which is apparently priority 2. Slots 1 and 3 being priority 1. I don't know if that's an issue. I moved it to 2 instead of 1 because 1 was very close to the hot processor and I just wanted to give it some space. Here is the RAM www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Desktop-Memory/dp/B0143UM4TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497623931&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+3200Motherboard (states that the Corsair 3200 8gb modules are suipported - same model number CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 . I have two of these) www.asrock.com.tw/MB/Intel/Z270%20Pro4/index.asp#Memory |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 16, 2017 10:35:25 GMT -5
KeithL Yeah with the RAM that is why I'm confused. Now granted the PC is still blazing fast. But I mean if I could get my RAM to be twice as fast, of course I'm going to try! The 4k: the Kabylake 7th gen i7 processors are specifically required to play netflix 4k because of its onboard 4k decoding chip. When it plays 4k on youtube (and netflix) the processor utilization is a ridiculous 1% and the processor is coasting so much it underclocks itself from 4.2 ghz to 1 ghz just to save power! I can confirm that the i7 does have onboard H.264 decoding but I haven't found any info on h.265. But it specifically is listed as requiring the I7 processor kabylake gen windows 10 and HDCP 2.2, Edge browser and HDMI 2 to run. But doesn't necessitate anything else that I know of. My graphics card is a geforce 1060 Pascal architecture which states it supports H265 HEVC 10 decoding up to 8k resolutions in 12 bit. developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk#SupportedGPUsAnyway, the reason I asked is that my blu ray player which plays 1080p video looks quite a bit better than what I'm getting trying to run 4k on the PC with netflix. So I don't actually know if I am or not as there is no "4k indicator" or resolution indicator on the edge browser. Meanwhile Youtube 4k looks pretty darn fantastic. My internet speed IS "slow" maxing out at about 17-20 MBps. It is able to play 1440 p without stopping but requires some pausing to buffer at 2160 4k resolutions. SO it is possible that netflix doesn't want to mess with 4k on my connection.
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2017 11:06:42 GMT -5
OK..... and some additional comments for our other viewers...... H.265 is HEVC .... which is the new compression standard for 4k video. H.264 is an OLD standard for video (most older videos you may find that are NOT H.265, including some older uploaded 4k videos, will turn out to be H.264). H.265 requires a LOT of processing power to decode.... so it's really hard to do it in software. All 4k TVs have H.265 (HEVC) decoding built in - IN HARDWARE...... HDMI is NOT H.265 so, for example, to send 4k video from your computer to your TV, your computer must decode the H.265 video to HDMI. Here's where it gets confusing...... In order to play 4k HEVC video decently, you need something that can do the decoding in hardware (it CAN be done in software, but it's just not a good idea). The new KabyLake CPU chip seems to include hardware decoding for HEVC (H.265). Your graphics card ALSO includes hardware decoding of HEVC (H.265). Since your graphics card included hardware H.265 decoding, you really shouldn't ALSO need it in the CPU. (In other words, your graphics card should be able to play 4k video just fine regardless of the processor used.) HOWEVER..... and this seems to be the big catch....... From the information I've been able to find, in addition to the actual video decoding capability, Netflix has tied themselves into some new 4k DRM (copy protection) scheme called PlayReady 3.0 , which is only supported on a few things so far.... and pretty much ONLY the KabyLake processor so far. In other words, your video card can play any normal 4k stuff just fine, but NETFLIX has created a situation where their service will only work on a PC with a KabyLake processor. (And either eventually other folks will support that particular copy protection - or they won't.) There seems to be some question about what other video cards or processors might work with Netflix 4k - and how well. Good luck there. arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/11/netflix-4k-streaming-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/KeithL Yeah with the RAM that is why I'm confused. Now granted the PC is still blazing fast. But I mean if I could get my RAM to be twice as fast, of course I'm going to try! The 4k: the Kabylake 7th gen i7 processors are specifically required to play netflix 4k because of its onboard 4k decoding chip. When it plays 4k on youtube (and netflix) the processor utilization is a ridiculous 1% and the processor is coasting so much it underclocks itself from 4.2 ghz to 1 ghz just to save power! I can confirm that the i7 does have onboard H.264 decoding but I haven't found any info on h.265. But it specifically is listed as requiring the I7 processor kabylake gen windows 10 and HDCP 2.2, Edge browser and HDMI 2 to run. But doesn't necessitate anything else that I know of. My graphics card is a geforce 1060 Pascal architecture which states it supports H265 HEVC 10 decoding up to 8k resolutions in 12 bit. developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk#SupportedGPUsAnyway, the reason I asked is that my blu ray player which plays 1080p video looks quite a bit better than what I'm getting trying to run 4k on the PC with netflix. So I don't actually know if I am or not as there is no "4k indicator" or resolution indicator on the edge browser. Meanwhile Youtube 4k looks pretty darn fantastic. My internet speed IS "slow" maxing out at about 17-20 MBps. It is able to play 1440 p without stopping but requires some pausing to buffer at 2160 4k resolutions. SO it is possible that netflix doesn't want to mess with 4k on my connection. |
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bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Jun 16, 2017 11:33:06 GMT -5
DDR ram is rated at 2x the "normal" speed.
Blame marketing.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2017 11:33:57 GMT -5
Hi KeithL -
I realize you're trying to "give a balanced picture of PC vs. Mac," but I think you seriously fall short. Although your statistics may be accurate (yes, there ARE more viruses and malware infections with Macs than there used to be), what you neglect to do (utterly and totally) is to compare Mac infections as a percentage of total users to the number of PC infections as a percentage of total users. By that metric, nobody should EVER buy a PC under any circumstances.
And although I'm a sample of one, that particular sample is of great importance to me:
When I had a PC, I ran a top-rated AV program and updated it religiously. Ditto with anti-malware programs. Despite my good habits, my business PC still ended up infected at a rate of two to three times per year. And when I say "infected," I mean to the point where the machine became unusable and I had to take it to my local computer experts for cleaning. More than one time, I lost data. Talking with friends, I discovered that my experience was not unusual.
I also had the experience of restoring from backups and unintentionally restoring viruses and malware that had been previously removed.
When I switched to Mac, and kept my Windows OS & applications in a virtual machine that wasn't allowed internet access, I've used the machine for about eight years consecutively without a single issue.
The results speak for themselves.
As to "Macs don't need AV software," I'd still agree with that statement, although such malicious software is definitely becoming more common. Apple does a good job of watching for viruses/malware and of promptly issuing the appropriate patches to their OS. The updates are free, and if the user allows update-installation as soon as they're issued, the chances of getting a Mac virus are slim - VERY slim. The time may come when running a Mac AV program is required, but I've not yet experienced such a need.
So I disagree that Apple and Windows machines are equivalent. I do agree that for some people one or the other is a significantly better choice. I also agree that for the average user, the economy of PCs is highly desirable over the much higher cost of Mac gear. But for me, the computer is a business tool - not a game player, a convenience, or a toy. And for my needs, I'm completely convinced that Apple gear is worth its premium price. YMMV
Cordially - Boom
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 16, 2017 11:39:19 GMT -5
Hi KeithL - I realize you're trying to "give a balanced picture of PC vs. Mac," but I think you seriously fall short. Although your statistics may be accurate (yes, there ARE more viruses and malware infections with Macs than there used to be), what you neglect to do (utterly and totally) is to compare Mac infections as a percentage of total users to the number of PC infections as a percentage of total users. By that metric, nobody should EVER buy a PC under any circumstances. And although I'm a sample of one, that particular sample is of great importance to me: When I had a PC, I ran a top-rated AV program and updated it religiously. Ditto with anti-malware programs. Despite my good habits, my business PC still ended up infected at a rate of two to three times per year. And when I say "infected," I mean to the point where the machine became unusable and I had to take it to my local computer experts for cleaning. More than one time, I lost data. Talking with friends, I discovered that my experience was not unusual. I also had the experience of restoring from backups and unintentionally restoring viruses and malware that had been previously removed. When I switched to Mac, and kept my Windows OS & applications in a virtual machine that wasn't allowed internet access, I've used the machine for about eight years consecutively without a single issue. The results speak for themselves. As to "Macs don't need AV software," I'd still agree with that statement, although such malicious software is definitely becoming more common. Apple does a good job of watching for viruses/malware and of promptly issuing the appropriate patches to their OS. The updates are free, and if the user allows update-installation as soon as they're issued, the chances of getting a Mac virus are slim - VERY slim. The time may come when running a Mac AV program is required, but I've not yet experienced such a need. So I disagree that Apple and Windows machines are equivalent. I do agree that for some people one or the other is a significantly better choice. I also agree that for the average user, the economy of PCs is highly desirable over the much higher cost of Mac gear. But for me, the computer is a business tool - not a game player, a convenience, or a toy. And for my needs, I'm completely convinced that Apple gear is worth its premium price. YMMV Cordially - Boom I've always used a Windows-based PC and have never had issues that ruined my computer. The AV programs used at my office and the ones I have used at home for my personal computers have kept them virus-free. That's not to say people don't get infected, but when you say that a higher proportion of PC users contract virus and malware-related problems than do Mac users, do you have statistics to back that up? I'm not disagreeing with you but if you make a statement like that, then you should cite evidence to support it. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2017 11:53:11 GMT -5
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 16, 2017 12:10:01 GMT -5
Actually, none of those articles provide sufficient documentation. The CNET article states that a survey taken shows the perception is that PC's are more vulnerable and infected more often but the facts do not back that up. The How To Geek article also is not convincing because while they say early versions of Windows were insecure, they also state later versions have much tighter security. They wind up saying in effect that PC's are more common and thus get more attacks. Something else to consider is whether you are talking about protected versus unprotected computers, as the articles also addressed how people do not take the proper steps to protect their devices. While it may be that there is a "general consensus" that PC's get more viruses, that doesn't mean it is true, nor is that really a meaningful statement without properly defining what is meant by PC's getting more viruses. Is that more in total, or proportionately more, or more when not protected, etc. Personally, I believe Macs are no better protected against viruses than PC's are, but then that's just my belief. I offer no documentation to support it, but then like I said there doesn't seem to be documentation supporting a statement that PC's are more vulnerable. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2017 12:54:27 GMT -5
It isn't worth researching to me. My experience is sufficiently persuasive (to me) that I'm not reverting to a Windows machine . If I start getting viruses on my Mac, it'll be time to reevaluate, but until then... And I'm more than willing to concede that my PC experience may be obsolete. After all, my PC-using friends (including garbulky) don't seem to have the same problems that I used to. |
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