klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,089
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Post by klinemj on Apr 1, 2019 15:04:28 GMT -5
What we know so far.... (the best info I have).....
Yes, we will eventually have a new high-end DAC model (we haven't given up on making DACs). I don't know if it will be called a "DC-2" or not - bit it probably will NOT be the same as the DC-2 we previewed at EmoFest several years ago. We don't have a decision on the form factor yet (it may be full-sized, or half-sized, or maybe even one of each).
It will almost certainly NOT have a Sabre DAC in it (nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good).
On everything else regarding it we're still in the planning stages...
(We've seen several prototypes and ideas... but none of them has been green-lighted yet.)
My vote is that being Roon ready should be a priority, as well as having MQA capabilities. Ability to input direct from ethernet would be a plus, especially if the sound quality can equal the toys like the rendu and SoTM line that we've discussed heavily here as step changes in digital sound quality. I know you, Keith, don't seem to believe us in that - but...there's something special with them. And, a lot more people are doing streaming so direct in from internet is a bonus. Also, you say "nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good" If you mean at Emotiva, OK. But "here" (at the Lounge) there are many who seem to like some products having them. I am not a fan of the Oppo 105 execution but others are. And, my beloved LH Labs DAC has a Sabre DAC...and I love it as much as I dislike the Oppo execution. Go figure...as I've said before, it's more than the chip that seems to make or break an execution of Sabre for me. Mark |
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 1, 2019 15:11:27 GMT -5
It will almost certainly NOT have a Sabre DAC in it (nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good) Such a huge myth. I don't know why you perpetuate this. Sure, there are DACs with Sabre chips that sound bright with endless glare but there are DACs with Burr-Brown and other chips that also sound awful. Much more to the sound of a DAC than the chip choice. An example is the PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC which has an ES9010K2M Sabre chip and it is one of the richest DACs I've heard but it still belts out endless detail. |
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robs
Minor Hero
Posts: 52
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Post by robs on Apr 1, 2019 16:37:14 GMT -5
It's not a myth. Most Sabre implementations are terrible compared to AKM and AD chips.
That PS Audio DAC you listed sucks balls. Anything that company makes like under $4k is terrible.
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klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,089
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Post by klinemj on Apr 1, 2019 16:53:37 GMT -5
It will almost certainly NOT have a Sabre DAC in it (nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good) Such a huge myth. I don't know why you perpetuate this. Sure, there are DACs with Sabre chips that sound bright with endless glare but there are DACs with Burr-Brown and other chips that also sound awful. Much more to the sound of a DAC than the chip choice. An example is the PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC which has an ES9010K2M Sabre chip and it is one of the richest DACs I've heard but it still belts out endless detail. I suspect he will clarify that "nobody here..." means the folks at Emotiva HQ. But, I agree with you. Love my LH Labs Geek Pulse X Infinity DAC with Sabre chips...hate the Oppo 105 for 2 channel...and it has Sabre also. Mark |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,851
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 1, 2019 18:02:47 GMT -5
I've been eye-balling this dac by RME for about a year now. A little pricey, but I'm still thinking within reason for me. For the time being, since I just got back from a 9 day Colorado ski trip, and being in the middle of new bathroom quartz countertops & sinks as well as painting cabinetry, most other luxury expenditures are on hold until these home DIY projects are finished. www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 1, 2019 18:18:46 GMT -5
With so many great dac choices in all price ranges, what can Emo bring to the table? Tubes, nah. FPGA, unlikely. MQA, no way.
SOTA ? Needs major chops....
A world class headphone amp?
I've got it, a really great 12v trigger!!
Seriously, not happening. This thread is almost two years old (yawn).
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Post by IronPigsDigs on Apr 1, 2019 19:24:21 GMT -5
I've been eye-balling this dac by RME for about a year now. A little pricey, but I'm still thinking within reason for me. For the time being, since I just got back from a 9 day Colorado ski trip, and being in the middle of new bathroom quartz countertops & sinks as well as painting cabinetry, most other luxury expenditures are on hold until these home DIY projects are finished. www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.htmlI like it! |
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Post by Cogito on Apr 1, 2019 20:13:44 GMT -5
I've been eye-balling this dac by RME for about a year now. A little pricey, but I'm still thinking within reason for me. For the time being, since I just got back from a 9 day Colorado ski trip, and being in the middle of new bathroom quartz countertops & sinks as well as painting cabinetry, most other luxury expenditures are on hold until these home DIY projects are finished. www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.htmlNice looking unit, but not much connectivity for the money. |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 1, 2019 20:53:15 GMT -5
Totally agree about the B.S. of the Sabre DAC. It is so much more than the chipset that determines the sound. I am a big fan of the AKM DAC myself. The architecture is an easy one. Burr Brown....uh Texas Instruments makes fine ones too. But lets not get so wrapped up in just the DAC chip. It is the total package from A to Z. Lonnie said it best in one of his product videos. This partisanship of what DAC chip alone that makes a great DAC is just plain silly. That is like a FET is better than a BiPolar Amp without looking at the rest of components. Or a Hemi vs. the Shotgun or Elephant motors of the day. It is the whole thing that makes something great in synergy. Plain and simple.
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Post by novisnick on Apr 1, 2019 21:03:21 GMT -5
If I were looking for a complete system, almost. I’d sure give thr Mytek Brooklyn Bridge a try! Includes a preamp, DAC, exceptional wordclock, phono preamp, digital and analog volume control as well as built in streamer that rivals what I own today. So Hans says. Purchase the matching amp and save $500. Available in Black or Silver  |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 1, 2019 21:06:21 GMT -5
Novisnick you are reading my mind. Awesome choice. High regards to the Mytek. Not free, but not totally out of control, but the tech that puts you back in control. I am watching this company closely.
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 2, 2019 16:32:44 GMT -5
Also, you say "nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good" If you mean at Emotiva, OK. But "here" (at the Lounge) there are many who seem to like some products having them. I am not a fan of the Oppo 105 execution but others are. And, my beloved LH Labs DAC has a Sabre DAC...and I love it as much as I dislike the Oppo execution. Go figure...as I've said before, it's more than the chip that seems to make or break an execution of Sabre for me. I HATED the sound of the analog outputs on my Oppo 205. Just awful. However, I had a Peachtree DAC•iTx with a Sabre chip; a laid back DAC I enjoyed immensely. |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 2, 2019 19:30:06 GMT -5
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 2, 2019 19:34:13 GMT -5
If you haven't heard of these folks. Where have you been hiding all this time? mytekdigital.com |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 2, 2019 19:50:39 GMT -5
If you haven't heard of these folks. Where have you been hiding all this time? mytekdigital.comNo kidding, right? 😁🎶 Love how my Brooklyn sounds and it’s versatility. An amazing piece of kit. |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 2, 2019 19:53:38 GMT -5
Talk about a bargain for getting into a really good system. i haven’t heard either but they have both received rave reviews, especially at their price point |
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 3, 2019 2:49:41 GMT -5
I SO want to hear the Brooklyn Amp. "Words that will never be used to describe the Mytek Brooklyn Amp: lush, sweet, forgiving, diffuse, easygoing, plain Jane (can we still say that?). What the Amp gave up in such sweet kisses it replaced with a consistent sense of truthfulness, striking resolution that was never analytical, spacious soundstages, superb dynamics and some of the "blackest" backgrounds I've ever heard. The Brooklyn Amp was so quiet, so lacking in the sort of back-of-stage fuzziness you don't notice till it's gone, that its sound was sometimes eerie—but never cold."- from Ken Micallef's review in Stereophile |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 3, 2019 6:13:27 GMT -5
The Mytek is really making high end easy but never cheap and just about most of the folks that have used it speak favorably about it. Never a bad way to go.
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 3, 2019 7:26:30 GMT -5
There is a big difference in how the 8 channel Sabre Chips are used in different products. In the OPPOs,ony one channel of the Sabre was used per analog output. In some stereo Dacs using the Sabre, again only one channel per output channel might be used. But on the best Sabre stereo dacs four channels are used in parallel per stereo output channel which lowers the noise floor appreciably. Of course, as point out, supporting circuitry such as power supplies and board design all contribute to the overall quality.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Apr 3, 2019 9:54:06 GMT -5
Let me be absolutely clear then.... Personally..... Over time, I've owned quite a few DACs, several of which used Sabre DAC chips (including a Wyred4Sound DAC2, and an AudioLab MDac, both of which are pretty highly regarded)... I've also owned quite a few lower-prices DACs that used the Sabre chips... from an original Dragonfly, to several Audio G*D models, to an original 0DAC...
Every single one of them exhibited what I would call "the Sabre house sound" to some degree. In some cases, it actually sounded as if there was a bump in the frequency response that was exaggerating the detail in the upper midrange and lower treble, even though measurements showed no such bump was present. If you're familiar with Photoshop, a good visual analogy would be how images look when you use excessive sharpening... details "pop" (but the edges around the details seem over-sharp and exaggerated). (Note that, if your speakers are slightly lacking in detail, this can make them seem to be more detailed - and so may sound quite good.)
Here at Emotiva, from time to time, we also listen to other products on the market, to see what other vendors are selling. And, the last several times when we auditioned products that used Sabre DAC chips, the consensus was that they sounded as if the detail was somewhat boosted. The sound was described as "grainy" and several listeners mentioned that "sibilance sounded exaggerated or unnatural".
I'm not suggesting that Sabre DACs cannot ever sound good... However, from our experience, at best they may be able to sound as good as various high-end DAC chips from Analog Devices, and AKM and Burr Brown... And, at worst, they sound noticeably unpleasant and annoying... It's also worth noting that Sabre DAC chips are one of the more expensive DAC chips available... Therefore, we simply see nothing to suggest that they are worth considering for inclusion in our products...
It will almost certainly NOT have a Sabre DAC in it (nobody here thinks the Sabre DACs sound especially good) Such a huge myth. I don't know why you perpetuate this. Sure, there are DACs with Sabre chips that sound bright with endless glare but there are DACs with Burr-Brown and other chips that also sound awful. Much more to the sound of a DAC than the chip choice. An example is the PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC which has an ES9010K2M Sabre chip and it is one of the richest DACs I've heard but it still belts out endless detail. |
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